The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In truth, I have not personally liked Musk ever since he tweeted derogatory missives about a man involved in rescuing Thai kids in a flooded cave. Musk punched down, and hired fancy lawyers to get away with it. Not pretty, in fact, petty. 

An awful low blow and loss of temper from Musk. But, a couple of forum members here have made more subtle suggestions, which is equally poor etiquette. 
 

I have read one of Taibbi’s books, “Hate Inc”. It was pretty good. 
 

We should probably understand that all human beings make mistakes, no matter how well intentioned. 
 

Regarding the CCP comment, are they a free and independent entity? I mean, when did the US stop funding their leaders? Are they free of the tentacles of an octopus that has been dominating the globe for a long time? 
 

Quigley points out that the network of his day was controlling foreign affairs and funding Mao. Fast forward to present day I’ll present a little conundrum:

A bio-warfare (gain of function research lab) moves from Chapel Hill, North Carolina to Wuhan, China. You would think it would be a huge national security risk; having such a lab in your arch enemy and rival to the throne’s country. Having their nationals work in such a lab. For China, you would think having their arch enemy running a bio-warfare lab in their country would be an intolerable security risk. Both parties seem quite happy and contented? What would your conclusion be? 
 

 

[Guest]

On 12/5/2022 at 12:10 AM, John Cotter said:

Yes, the irony is that the sort of “liberalism” espoused by those who vociferously endorsed the official covid narrative and vilified and shut down anyone who questioned it is not liberalism in any meaningful sense. It’s out and out authoritarianism, if not indeed fascism. (In a 1944 article, “What is Fascism”, George Orwell said fascism was essentially bullying – see link below.)

I didn’t know of this article. Fascism, like nationalism, socialism, and communism is underpinned by collectvism, or the “greater good”. In the modern era in the west, the excuse for bullying or obvious authoritarianism is always the greater good. Anybody who questions the authority is penalised or scapegoated. This amounts to Dr Skinner’s “operant conditioning.” 
 

On 12/5/2022 at 12:10 AM, John Cotter said:

The same goes for those self-styled liberals who similarly support the US “full spectrum dominance” – effectively totalitarian – geopolitical order. These include Bono and Hollywood celebrities who cheer on the US proxy war in Ukraine. It’s not what JFK, MLK or RFK stood for.

This ample evidence that a proportion of society are weaponised by propaganda. They accept two contradictory ideas, unquestioningly. Orwell called that “doublethink”. We have a few members doing that here, on one hand espousing values of caring and compassion for fellow human beings, and in another breath endorsing jingoism and domination of other fellow men and nations. I wonder what it would take for these types to see the glaring flaw in their views. Perhaps only a stint in “The Gulag Archipelago” would wake them.

 

On 12/5/2022 at 12:10 AM, John Cotter said:

JFK wanted to end the Cold War, not win it. He also supported the independence of Third World countries rather than forcing them to submit to US dominance.

This dominance is/was from both parties. We have this denial where people think its from one. Perhaps the notion that both are arms from the same beast is worth considering. There is continuity, regardless of the colours worn. 
 

RKF, JFK & MLK were for a change of course. Anyone who reads “Ripples of hope”, will understand the clear warnings not to slip into what we are now. 
 

On 12/5/2022 at 12:10 AM, John Cotter said:

“Explaining to Indian leader Jawaharlal Nehru his own opposition to colonialism, Kennedy observed that his Irish ancestors had suffered under the domination of the same foreign power that exercised authority in India, albeit less brutally than in Ireland. Perhaps he was seeking to identify with his Indian counterpart. But in the summer of 1963, Kennedy visited Ireland, despite the objections of some of his advisors, who saw no strategic value in it, and in the face of criticism that the trip was a personal indulgence.” (John F Kennedy: The Spirit of Cold War Liberalism by Jason K Duncan)

Nice reference, John. I think JFK understood clearly that he was still viewed as Irish trash by the ruling class in the USA. I would suggest that his father’s driving force was fuelled by being looked upon as a migrant, blackballed by the Porcelains. I think thats the source of their compassion too. Lest we forget that people fleeing famine in Ireland were greeted by signs in the USA that read “we don’t hire Irish”. Though the Irish were willing to fight on either side of the American civil war, not paid, for food. Anything was better than starving. How could JFK not visit Ireland? He was proud to be who he was and proud that his story was just one of many in a “nation of immigrants.” 
 

JFK was indeed not for the USA hegemony, or dominance of the globe. 

[Benjamin Cole]

43 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

An awful low blow and loss of temper from Musk. But, a couple of forum members here have made more subtle suggestions, which is equally poor etiquette. 
 

I have read one of Taibbi’s books, “Hate Inc”. It was pretty good. 
 

We should probably understand that all human beings make mistakes, no matter how well intentioned. 
 

Regarding the CCP comment, are they a free and independent entity? I mean, when did the US stop funding their leaders? Are they free of the tentacles of an octopus that has been dominating the globe for a long time? 
 

Quigley points out that the network of his day was controlling foreign affairs and funding Mao. Fast forward to present day I’ll present a little conundrum:

A bio-warfare (gain of function research lab) moves from Chapel Hill, North Carolina to Wuhan, China. You would think it would be a huge national security risk; having such a lab in your arch enemy and rival to the throne’s country. Having their nationals work in such a lab. For China, you would think having their arch enemy running a bio-warfare lab in their country would be an intolerable security risk. Both parties seem quite happy and contented? What would your conclusion be? 
 

 

IMHO, China is too big, and the Han culture too old and solid, and their leadership too strong, to be much influenced by Americans. They view Americans as uncouth, individualistic and unorganized, and easily influenced by money. 

My view is Beijing has mouthpieces aplenty in the West, as seen by the uniform chorus that "China is liberalizing" heard until recently in informed US elite circles. 

Then the Wuhan lab leak story was suppressed---by American media elites, no less. The Donks wanted that story dead and killed it. 

Pro-democracy publisher Jimmy Lai of Hong Kong has been tossed into prison---with hardly a whimper from US media. Where is the WaPo and NYT? 

The largest and most powerful commercial enterprises in all history---the modern-day multinationals, are hip-deep into CCP sewage. 

Interesting times. 

In the West, perhaps the US seems all-powerful. In the East, the US looks feeble, brazen, unorganized, unwitting, easily compromised. 

Just look at Disney, the NBA, or former Clinton Administration Defense Secy William Cohen (a GOP'er, btw). 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

IMHO, China is too big, and the Han culture too old and solid, and their leadership too strong, to be much influenced by Americans. They view Americans as uncouth, individualistic and unorganized, and easily influenced by money. 

No offence intended but, I don’t think those views are exclusive to the Hans. You are right, we must consider history but, also human nature. We might say that the US military was too patriotic, too loyal, to be compromised. Does Prouty show exactly how this was done?  The method wasn’t new in the 1950’s and 60’s, it had played out in Masonic organisations for a long time, subverting systems. 
 

What is your take on both countries being fine with a highly compromised security situation  regarding the Wuhan lab? 

15 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In the West, perhaps the US seems all-powerful. In the East, the US looks feeble, brazen, unorganized, unwitting, easily compromised. 

It looks like the end days of any empire, decay, corruption. Everyone can see it but, those at the epicentre. 
 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

The other so-and-so's here (apart from Chris) are too jealous to say it, Joe, but I'll say it. You're a fine-looking dude.

Yes, now we know why that lady who co-starred in the Elvis movie was hitting on Joe back in the day.

[Matt Allison]

MAGA terrorists are suspected in targeted infrastructure attack.

Do you know the name Emily Grace Rainey? You should.

Former US military psyops officer.

Participated in 1/6.

Connection to below terror attack being investigated now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/power-outage-moore-county-investigation-monday/index.html

[Matt Allison]

 

[Matthew Koch]

36 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

MAGA terrorists are suspected in targeted infrastructure attack.

Do you know the name Emily Grace Rainey? You should.

Former US military psyops officer.

Participated in 1/6.

Connection to below terror attack being investigated now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/power-outage-moore-county-investigation-monday/index.html

Matt, did you read the first sentence of the article? 
 

CNN — 

With no suspects or motive announced, the FBI is joining the investigation into power outages in a North Carolina county believed to have been caused by “intentional” and “targeted” attacks on substations that left around 40,000 customers in the dark Saturday night, prompting a curfew and emergency declaration.

[Matthew Koch]

 

[Matthew Koch]

Just now, Matthew Koch said:

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

 

Thanks Matt.  I read a different article on this but these two add a lot to the bigger picture.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

No offence intended but, I don’t think those views are exclusive to the Hans. You are right, we must consider history but, also human nature. We might say that the US military was too patriotic, too loyal, to be compromised. Does Prouty show exactly how this was done?  The method wasn’t new in the 1950’s and 60’s, it had played out in Masonic organisations for a long time, subverting systems. 
 

What is your take on both countries being fine with a highly compromised security situation  regarding the Wuhan lab? 

It looks like the end days of any empire, decay, corruption. Everyone can see it but, those at the epicentre. 
 

 

 

Chris--

The strange cooperation between US government financed entities and the Wuhan lab...maybe each side was hoping to spy on the other and learn something. 

The war games just before the Wuhan lab leak (or the possible source of the Wuhan leak) may be much the same.

On the other hand, there are powerful elements in US elites who want to pander to the CCP, and perhaps these joint China-US operations were part of that pandering. 

Interesting story: The Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement was financed by China money, and about $750,000 flowed from China through the UPenn to Biden, who never taught a course. 

I do not advocate bellicose behavior towards China, nor necessarily even a US military presence in the Asian Pacific. 

But putting manufacturing facilities into mainland CCP-China en masse...to throw Americans out of work...may not be a viable plan. 

Just ask the NBA how to deal with China.....

 

 

[Matt Allison]

[Joe Bauer]

5 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

You look in good nick, Joe. 

A tip of the Ale to ya Matey.

Thank ye.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The strange cooperation between US government financed entities and the Wuhan lab...maybe each side was hoping to spy on the other and learn something. 

The war games just before the Wuhan lab leak (or the possible source of the Wuhan leak) may be much the same.

That never happened between the Soviet Union and the USA, both sides did their utmost to maintain secrecy and security. That was effective to the point that the Clinton administration found out from a defector that Russia had the capabilities to defeat the USA without firing a single bullet in the 90’s, using bio-weapons. The USA upped their efforts on the back of the disturbing news. How plausible would it be to compromise your own security, whether you are the US or China? It’s a Trojan horse, either way. 
 

Are the reactions of the USA or China when the outbreak started, in any way telling? What would you have expected from two enemies/competitors? 
 

As your expertise in economics tell you, the USA and China are intrinsically linked by trade and debt. If one fails, both fail. The question is; just how far do the links extend?  
 

PS The Wuhan War Games very closely matches the actual start of the virus, its just nobody realised what it was for a while. Would be an opportunity to spread the virus globally, fast, before any borders could be shut.