The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Ron Bulman]

GOP Senator Describes Jan. 6 as ‘Four-Hour Stroll Through the Capitol That’s Marred By a Half Hour of Rioting’ (msn.com)

[Leslie Sharp]

54 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

I can tell you what set the tone for me, you praising the usual Kirk, ad hominem/character assassination attempt. I probably wouldn’t have commented if it wasn’t for that. 

Then all the rest of it unfolded from there. If we are going to have any sort of civil discourse or debate, which the world needs, then we are all going to have to behave much more diplomatically, we’re going to have to put emotions aside and stop thinking tribally. EQ is required. Or, it just becomes this melee. If your defence, you are new to this hostility here, some of it between parties has been going on years and the hatchet really should have been buried. 
 

It’s abundantly clear to me that most of society isn’t capable of civilised public discourse, because of the way that they have been conditioned, educated, radicalised and a whole bunch of variables which are more esoteric in nature. 
 

It comes to a point where we must ask, are we wasting the most precious commodity that we have, time? Thankfully I spent most of my weekend being off the forum and being sociable with good friends. 
 

What do you want from this? 

Intellectual integrity is an aspect or part of integrity proper. It requires being. willing to stand up for your best judgment of the truth, by being willing to act in accordance with that judgment when the need arises. Like other intellectual virtues, intellectual integrity is a character trait.

[Leslie Sharp]

18 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Geez, Ben.  Wake up.

Mr. Buffalo Horns was always your J6 straw man.

He has long been used by the J6 coup deniers-- including Tucker Carlson-- to trivialize and deny the egregiousness of Trump's plot to obstruct the certification of Biden's election.

In reality, Chansley was merely one of many delusional MAGAts duped by the lies of Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, and the other talking heads at Fox into believing that the 2020 election was stolen.

I feel sorry for the Chansley.  He got played by Trump and Fox News.

Now he's in prison, while Trump and his coup co-conspirators have faced no consequences for their sedition.

So true.  If he's finally indicted, will Eastman spend four years in jail?

 

 

44 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Republic was and is safe from Mr Buffalo Horns, even if he was set free (as he should be).

If you think that motley, unorganized scrum at the Capitol was a threat to your liberties...you are sharpening your axe to fell a bonsai tree in a redwood forest.

The M$M will soon be creating more domestic subversives for you to fear.  

 

 

Eastman and those he was working with remain a threat to our democracy, not a mentally disabled self-described shaman.

If indicted and proven guilty, how many years will Eastman spend behind bars? 

Eastman Sought A Pardon

Eastman emailed Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani seeking a preemptive presidential pardon for his role in masterminding the push to overturn the 2020 election. 

"I've decided I should be on the pardon list if that's still in the works," Eastman wrote, according to the email presented as evidence by the Jan. 6 committee.

https://www.jan-6.com/john-eastman?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyvrn49bX_QIVBhKtBh2EMQEdEAMYASAAEgKAXPD_BwE

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Geez, Ben.  Wake up.

Mr. Buffalo Horns was always your J6 straw man.

He has long been used by the J6 coup deniers-- including Tucker Carlson-- to trivialize and deny the egregiousness of Trump's plot to obstruct the certification of Biden's election.

In reality, Chansley was merely one of many delusional MAGAts duped by the lies of Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, and the other talking heads at Fox into believing that the 2020 election was stolen.

I feel sorry for the Chansley.  He got played by Trump and Fox News.

Now he's in prison, while Trump and his coup co-conspirators have faced no consequences for their sedition.

W--

We are worlds apart on our perspectives. That is fine. A forum is a place for civil discussions. 

There may be more to the Jan. 6 story. I am skeptical of the M$M-official government narrative.

(I always encourage dissent from official narratives, otherwise we accept official narratives even when they are lies. See the Vietnam, JFKA, WMD, Wuhan lab leak official narratives). 

The role of the Capitol Police on Jan .6...they seem far more culpable for the breach that day than Mr Buffalo Horns. 

What was the role on Jan. 6 of instigators and provocateurs, and who hired them? Do you know for a fact?  

With nearly 1,000 Capitol occupation cases filed...not one hint of even "ties, "links" or "contacts" --the usual witch-hunt words---between Capitol Hill occupiers and the Trump Administration. There are no connections, evidently. 

The federal panopticon can read e-mail, texts, Facebooks, listen on phone calls, track location by smartphone, all retroactively. There is no evidence linking Trump to the scrum at the Capitol. None--yet that narrative is re-floated in the M$M for years on end. To this day. 

The texts and images sent by occupiers on Jan. 6 indicate a very troubled crowd---Mr Buffalo Horns was hardly typical, but still indicative of many of the occupiers. This was not an "insurrection." 

Jan. 6 was a scrum, with many troubled individuals---but likely something happened along the way, due to provocateurs and the mysterious standing down of the Capitol Police.

I suspect Jan. 6 was a manufactured event. 

You may have a different view. That is fine.  I do not cast aspersions on your point of view, but I encourage you to keep an open mind. 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

did not Trump encourage them to go to the Capitol?

[Leslie Sharp]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W--

We are worlds apart on our perspectives. That is fine. A forum is a place for civil discussions. 

There may be more to the Jan. 6 story. I am skeptical of the M$M-official government narrative.

(I always encourage dissent from official narratives, otherwise we accept official narratives even when they are lies. See the Vietnam, JFKA, WMD, Wuhan lab leak official narratives). 

The role of the Capitol Police on Jan .6...they seem far more culpable for the breach that day than Mr Buffalo Horns. 

What was the role on Jan. 6 of instigators and provocateurs, and who hired them? Do you know for a fact?  

With nearly 1,000 Capitol occupation cases filed...not one hint of even "ties, "links" or "contacts" --the usual witch-hunt words---between Capitol Hill occupiers and the Trump Administration. There are no connections, evidently. 

The federal panopticon can read e-mail, texts, Facebooks, listen on phone calls, track location by smartphone, all retroactively. There is no evidence linking Trump to the scrum at the Capitol. None--yet that narrative is re-floated in the M$M for years on end. To this day. 

The texts and images sent by occupiers on Jan. 6 indicate a very troubled crowd---Mr Buffalo Horns was hardly typical, but still indicative of many of the occupiers. This was not an "insurrection." 

Jan. 6 was a scrum, with many troubled individuals---but likely something happened along the way, due to provocateurs and the mysterious standing down of the Capitol Police.

I suspect Jan. 6 was a manufactured event. 

You may have a different view. That is fine.  I do not cast aspersions on your point of view, but I encourage you to keep an open mind. 

 

 

With an open mind, will you consider and then comment on the following?

 

“I said xxxx the voting, get right to the violence,” Stone said in footage shot by a Danish film crew that was obtained by the committee. 

The committee played footage of Stone refusing answer questions about the violence on Jan. 6, including whether he believed it was justified, as well as whether he had any role in planning it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jan-6-hearing-roger-stone-voting-violence-1234610680/

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

I can tell you what set the tone for me, you praising the usual Kirk, ad hominem/character assassination attempt. I probably wouldn’t have commented if it wasn’t for that. 

Then all the rest of it unfolded from there. If we are going to have any sort of civil discourse or debate, which the world needs, then we are all going to have to behave much more diplomatically, we’re going to have to put emotions aside and stop thinking tribally. EQ is required. Or, it just becomes this melee. If your defence, you are new to this hostility here, some of it between parties has been going on years and the hatchet really should have been buried. 
 

It’s abundantly clear to me that most of society isn’t capable of civilised public discourse, because of the way that they have been conditioned, educated, radicalised and a whole bunch of variables which are more esoteric in nature. 
 

It comes to a point where we must ask, are we wasting the most precious commodity that we have, time? Thankfully I spent most of my weekend being off the forum and being sociable with good friends. 
 

What do you want from this? 

@Chris Barnard Leslie proved Orwell right with her Celebrating the fact that I put her on ignore as a victory. Only it's not a victory and she is too dense to understand that. The quote from Big Mike was pretty humorous considering that when we go low she only goes lower. Lucky for her we have extremely partisan mods because if I had insulted someones mother and accused using coded words for antisemitism I would have heard about it from them.. 

Imagine bragging about being a Nasty Woman the only thing she has done is proved to me that she is a Person Against Goodness And Normalcies and has reinforced my opinion that Feminism (also Orwellian) is basically mental AIDS. Someone should have explained to her the saying that Karma is a B**** isn't supposed to be taken literally 😉😝 

 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Advancing the fundamental question raised, "the inevitable end result of [60] years ....

A Far Right Ecosystem Spanning Decades

This analysis began with the question: what might the America First Committee and a figure named Roy Cohn have in common, and how might that commonality relate to contemporary politics? In addition to pointing me in the direction of the history behind Roy Cohn’s protégé Donald Trump’s own version of America First, Albarelli’s thinking before he passed was also influenced by our research into the history of rabid anti-communist Senator Joe McCarthy and the men surrounding him, including [his close friend and protegé Cohn], Robert Morris of the John Birch Society who served as attorney to one of our prime suspects — General Edwin A. Walker. Morris worked alongside Senator McCarthy’s legal counsel, Roy Marcus Cohn. 

As backdrop to our evolving interest in Cohn, Yeadon and Hawkins [authors of N-azi Hydra in America] had also covered a scandal that surfaced in the early 1980s involving political advisor Robert Keith Gray and his role at Hill and Knowlton public relations and advertising. Gray is now acknowledged as having served the national and international intelligence apparatus for years. 

            Gray’s association with a Korean CIA agent named Tongsun Park, and the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, owner of the Washington Times newspaper and leader of the Unification Church (recognized by most as “The Moonies”), led reporters to the George Town Club, a honey pot for Washington’s elite. A blackmail operation run by the CIA’s Edwin Wilson and Frank Terpil that was being run out of the club operated by Park—not dissimilar to lobbyist Bobby Baker’s Quorum Club of the 1960s which provided a stage for the German seductress Ellen Rometsch—would shake D. C. once again.

As Yeadon and Hawkins point out, it was Nebraska Senator John DeCamp’s investigation into leading figures in the George Town Club scandal that bled into what became known as the Franklin Credit Union child sex scandal of Omaha, Nebraska. In his exposé, The Franklin Cover-up, DeCamp explained that Ed Wilson’s blackmailing was an extension of Roy Cohn’s operation during the McCarthy era. [emphasis added] DeCamp writes, “Gray’s associate Wilson was apparently continuing the work of a reported collaborator of Gray from the 1950s—McCarthy committee counsel Roy Cohn, now dead of AIDS. According to the former head of the vice squad for one of America’s biggest cities, ‘Cohn’s job was to run the little boys. Say you had an admiral, a general, a congressman, who did not want to go along with the program. Cohn’s job was to set them up, then they would go along. Cohn told me that himself.

Ownership of Rev. Moon’s Washington Times, responsible for breaking some of the more salacious reporting of the George Town Club and Franklin Credit scandals, was later transferred to Operations Holdings, an alleged front company of Rev. Moon’s Unification Church.  In partnership with the Washington Times, in 2013, the far-right media company Herring Networks, Inc. debuted One America News Network (OANN). During the Trump administration, as the hugely popular conservative media outlet Fox News came under pressure from the marketplace to provide a modicum of unbiased reporting, OANN became a clear favorite of Roy Cohn’s protégé, President Donald Trump. As a result, and in anticipation of his re-election in 2020, a group of Trump allies contemplated a buyout of the cable channel, adding significantly to the perceived monetary worth of the collaboration between Operations Holdings and Herring Networks and its potential to promote the alt-right agenda in the years to come.

[It should be noted that the Moonies underwrote The Epoch Times as well.]

. . .  In light of the many national scandals that dominated the nation’s news cycles during the campaign of 2016 — [and considering the newest revelation that it was Epstein who ended his close friendship with Donald Trump] — in the context of political blackmail, one in particular warranted attention. A sensational child sex trafficking case had been exposed in Florida in 2005 with New York financial investor and sybarite, Jeffrey Epstein, at the center. Suspicion that the cameras and film equipment scattered throughout his various enclaves were focused as much on his high powered guests, including political leaders and influencers, as his underage victims, the possibility of tried and true blackmail could not be easily set aside. Had Epstein perfected the playbook developed over the decades by fascist regimes and employed by Americans like Kohlberg, Hoover, Cohn, Gray, and GOP consultant and “dirty trickster” Roger Stone [who once opined that the most valuable card in his Rolodex was that of Roy Cohn]? And if so, on whose behalf?  Researchers and reporters will discover, or disavow, this speculation in the months and years to come.
 

As you mention Roy Cohn, I quoted this in January on a thread about Bobby Kennedy, Raging Spirit by Chris Matthews.  Thought it worth repeating here.

An interesting quote from the book.  About the Joe McCarthy - Army - Communism hearings.  About Senator Scoop Jackson of Tennessee, attorney Roy Cohn (yes, that Roy Cohn The Final Lesson Donald Trump Never Learned From Roy Cohn - POLITICO Magazine), and RFK.  Pg. 125.

But as Jackson kept asking questions about Schine's pet project, his broad smile remained.  This drove Cohn beyond his boiling point.  When the chair called a recess, he darted for Kennedy, where he jabbed a file in front of his face.  "Tell Jackson we're going to get him Monday," Cohn warned.  "We've got letters he wrote to the White House on behalf of two known Communists." 

"Tell him yourself," Kennedy shot back.  "Don't threaten me.  You've got a f**king nerve threatening me."

The taunting was now turning physical.  Seeing Cohn cock his arm, bystanders stepped in and stopped him.  Bobby had gotten to his rival and he knew it.

[Leslie Sharp]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

@Chris Barnard Leslie proved Orwell right with her Celebrating the fact that I put her on ignore as a victory. Only it's not a victory and she is too dense to understand that. The quote from Big Mike was pretty humorous considering that when we go low she only goes lower. Lucky for her we have extremely partisan mods because if I had insulted someones mother and accused using coded words for antisemitism I would have heard about it from them.. 

Imagine bragging about being a Nasty Woman the only thing she has done is proved to me that she is a Person Against Goodness And Normalcies and has reinforced my opinion that Feminism (also Orwellian) is basically mental AIDS. Someone should have explained to her the saying that Karma is a B**** isn't supposed to be taken literally 😉😝 

 

Matthew, this is almost as much fun as flushing out a covey of quail on a cold morning in the Texas Panhandle.

Yiannopoulos?  Seriously? 

[Benjamin Cole]

22 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

did not Trump encourage them to go to the Capitol?

And demonstrate peacefully. Also, the scrum started at the Capitol, possibly instigated by provocateurs, even before Trump had finished speaking. 

Ray Epps, for example, left Trump's speech and instigated the crowd to enter the Capitol, while Trump was still speaking. Epps was present at the initial breaches of the fence around the Capitol. This is on video. 

I wonder how the MAGA-hatted Ray Epps, Oath Keeper and provocateur, became a New Donk hero lionized in the New York Times. Does that make sense? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

16 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

With an open mind, will you consider and then comment on the following?

 

“I said xxxx the voting, get right to the violence,” Stone said in footage shot by a Danish film crew that was obtained by the committee. 

The committee played footage of Stone refusing answer questions about the violence on Jan. 6, including whether he believed it was justified, as well as whether he had any role in planning it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jan-6-hearing-roger-stone-voting-violence-1234610680/

 

 

If Stone had pre-Jan. 6 relations with Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, and encouraged them to violence, then probably he should be prosecuted to see if the charges hold up in court, before a jury and with adequate defense counsel. 

What charges should be filed against Stone that should not be filed against Ray Epps? 

Biden runs the Justice Department now. Are they filing charges against Stone? 

Something fishy here. 

[Leslie Sharp]

23 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

As you mention Roy Cohn, I quoted this in January on a thread about Bobby Kennedy, Raging Spirit by Chris Matthews.  Thought it worth repeating here.

An interesting quote from the book.  About the Joe McCarthy - Army - Communism hearings.  About Senator Scoop Jackson of Tennessee, attorney Roy Cohn (yes, that Roy Cohn The Final Lesson Donald Trump Never Learned From Roy Cohn - POLITICO Magazine), and RFK.  Pg. 125.

But as Jackson kept asking questions about Schine's pet project, his broad smile remained.  This drove Cohn beyond his boiling point.  When the chair called a recess, he darted for Kennedy, where he jabbed a file in front of his face.  "Tell Jackson we're going to get him Monday," Cohn warned.  "We've got letters he wrote to the White House on behalf of two known Communists." 

"Tell him yourself," Kennedy shot back.  "Don't threaten me.  You've got a f**king nerve threatening me."

The taunting was now turning physical.  Seeing Cohn cock his arm, bystanders stepped in and stopped him.  Bobby had gotten to his rival and he knew it.

Worth repeating indeed, Ron.

Don't you wish you'd been a fly on the wall in that room!  

We've been discussing the possibility RFJ Jr. will decide to run against Trump, and wondering what stops the latter might pull out ... the Kennedy male proclivities for extramarital affairs at the risk of not simply reopening the pandora's box of his own behavior, but alienating the anti-vaccine-ers who adore Robert Jr. for his stance (which is misunderstood to be in concert with their take no prisoners position).

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

If Stone had pre-Jan. 6 relations with Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, and encouraged them to violence, then probably he should be prosecuted to see if the charges hold up in court, before a jury and with adequate defense counsel. 

What charges should be filed against Stone that should not be filed against Ray Epps? 

Biden runs the Justice Department now. Are they filing charges against Stone? 

Something fishy here. 

Whataboutism is somewhat reasonable in many circumstances, but a major stretch here. Was Epps' a confidant and advisor of President Trump? Was he ensconced  at the Willard with the Trump team who had initiated the Stop the Steal scheme days before the election? I kinda think Epps is the straw man the shaman wished he himself had been — a couple of notches up the food chain so his indictment might have taken a bit longer?

Who is alleged to have been Epps' handler?  Stone perhaps?

And if I can just say again, there were thousands and thousands of people at the rally and subsequent insurrection, and you're suggesting — at the instigation of Tucker — Epps is the threat?  Show me dozens of "Epps" and I'll pay a bit more attention.  So far I've only heard innuendo.

[Ron Bulman]

Epps is discussed in this one.

Carlson comes up short on Jan. 6 bombshells (msn.com)

[Guest]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:41 PM, Paul Brancato said:

.

Chris- I know some here are antagonistic towards you, and vice versa too. I watched all minutes of Glenn Beck and Tucker Carlson, and I have a few questions and comments.  
First and foremost - what LIE are they constantly referring to without actually defining it? 
Second - who is selectively choosing what pics to show?
Tucker Carlson was given lots of footage, and he has picked a very strange one depicting the Horned Norseman being gently shown around, without saying when the footage was taken. It is out of context. We know nothing, except what Tucker shows us and tells us. And when he shows it his preface is all about the danger of pictures in the hands of propagandists (how true) while asking ‘what are they hiding?’ So when he curates the video it’s as a counterbalance to ‘They’, the House committee, who showed us hours of other footage that was very different. What is he intimating? What’s the LIE? That there was no violence on Jan 6th? 
Carlson makes a point that is different from yours when you say that this LIE was targeted at the right wing, with the intent of labeling any right wing protest as ‘terrorist’. (Did we forget ‘Jews will not replace us’, or vehicles ramming into civil rights protestors in Charlottesville, you know, good people on both sides?) IHe specifically mentions Bernie Sanders and his supporters, who would find themselves similarly labeled for any demonstration they engaged in. What is completely lacking from your analysis, and it pains me to say it, is that for my entire lifetime it’s been the LEFT that has been demonized, infiltrated with federal provocateurs. They have always been deemed ‘terrorist’. Think Civil Rights marches met with water cannons. I didn’t see any of that on Jan 6th. Black DC demonstrations against Trump were shut down by the authorities, unlike Jan 6, an almost completely white persons action. When the Proud Boys are met with the same deadly force as the Black Panthers were I’ll take notice. The progressive perspective has always been left out of mainstream narratives. Their experts have consistently been denied media coverage. It’s ‘leftist’ journalists that have been forced onto substack and other marginal media outlets, it’s that movement that has never had the backing of billionaires. And please, don’t throw George Soros into the mix - that’s just a right wing anti-Semitic trope.
There is a deep difference between the corporate media, and the Left. Yes, I’ll give you this - and Carlson is for that brief moment correct - labeling protest as terrorist is something we should all be up in arms about. And - please ignore Antifa. It’s clear what that is, at least to me. I investigated them years ago. Ain’t nothing to do with anarchism, and everything to do with exactly the point you were trying to make. Anything to divide and conquer is ok by ruling elites, and they ain’t Democrats or Republicans, they are both and neither. 

Hi Paul, sorry for the slow reply, its been a busy weekend. Thank you for the considered post. 
 

I will do my best to answer your questions with my own thoughts. as you know, I do not condone the yobs depicted in the videos that I have seen, they are an awful advert for America. I also can only give you my opinions, I can’t tell you what is in Tucker’s mind but, I’ll do my best to interpret. 
 

1) Carlson is using very loose terms simply because a lawyer has read his monologue before the show and advised what he can and can’t say without himself getting taken to court or Fox. Remember, if he makes an accusation that a particular party has done something specific, the onus will be on him / Fox to prove that the specific thing happened, as opposed to the accused party proving it didn’t happen. IMO opinion the insinuation or suggestion which leaves the audience to make up their own mind is a self-preservation mechanism. 
 

To me the ‘lie’ is the state has manipulated a situation to benefit politically. They have made a protest gone bad, into something that seems to carry the status of 9/11 or Pearl Harbour.  The ‘lie’ also may be that ‘agent provocateurs’, or state agencies may have been involved in creating the required conditions for this protest to become an international incident. Think along the lines of JFK not having the required security on Nov 22nd 63. Think along the lines of the way the press covered that. And think along the lines of why the data was suppressed and still is suppressed. You have 44 hours of footage, why is this not publicly available on a website, so any tax payer can view it? The same with the footage of the pentagon being hit on 9/11. When there is no transparency, we should all question why. 
 

2) Who is hiding the footage? At this point it appears that Fox have hung Tucker out to dry. The chain of command have told him that’s enough. It’s really amazing that the public is choosing to believe senior Republicans who are attacking Tucker. 2/3 of the forum is throwing rotten fruit at them because they are corrupt snake oil salesman and the moment they forsake Tucker, they’re suddenly credible speakers of truth. 🤷‍♂️
Some things to consider are; as it stands the new footage shown serves not only for deeper questions to be asked but, it also creates a state of confusion in the public minds. Instead of debating what Mr Buffalo Horns and others were doing, it’s just attack the messenger. 
 

As I said to Leslie, if you gave me 44 hours of footage in Final Cut Pro, I could tell you many different stories from the day. 
 

This crudely illustrates the power of editing:

We’re really going to put the 1/6 protest gone wrong, on a par with 9/11? Analyse the propaganda that attacked our senses in the days after 1/6 (A linguistic term designed to stick in the public consciousness). One of the reasons I have been so certain of this from the very start is not from propaganda or having skin in the game in the US political process. I just watched the original promo video, and knowing the Mayor Daley stuff from the Nixon era, it told me the story. I am telling you, with my experience, I could plan something just like this from scratch, every facet of it and know the precise public reaction. Politicians are Machiavellians, so are the seniors in your intelligence services. They simply have to be or they could never rise to the top.

I completely agree that the left is the one who for many decades was called terrorists for protesting. Let me posit, what if the Democrats (liberals) are the conduit for corporations and this technocratic society. What if the Republican survival of the fittest, make war philosophy was essential for conquering the globe and bringing the developing world and Europe under the heel of the US hegemony? Now that’s mostly completed, what the powers that be now need is a very compliant; weak , frightened society, obsessed with safety incapable of revolution, who will trade away any freedom or liberty, for a little perceived safety. To some degree, Paul, you are a believer that a power structure sits above left and right (I think). 

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.“

Edward Bernays

The net consequence of whatever you want to call 1/6 is more power for the state, more control and more legal infrastructure. Government now has the power to turn its surveillance apparatus on the domestic citizenry and arrest, detain and charge anyone that the state classifies as a dissident, which includes anyone who is angry or defiant about what the state is doing. Do you think that is an accidental consequence. 9/11 did the same for people outside of US borders. Everyone lost their privacy. 
 

I have posted the Theodore Dalrymple quote multiple times here, consider that we are in the phase of shortages. 

 

In summary, if civilisation is to have any hope, we as a collective need to stop believing in happenstance, coincidences, buffoonery and random accidents, when there are patterns, correlations and the same people keep benefitting. The surveillance state is watching every little thing we do, yet, somehow these down and outs in trucker caps could outwit the state agencies and almost steal democracy? 
 

I understand why people believe it, and I am pleading with half the forum to read books that will stretch minds and leave the individual much more resilient to the techniques used. 
 

I am just tired of feeling like I have ‘Pandora’s Curse’.