The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

But somehow the criminal company of Pfizer isn’t included in that group in democrats minds. 

The donor class is always exalted, by either party. 

Which is why Donks focus on ID politics and not class issues...if you follow Donk messaging, the bad guys are working-class males....

[Matt Allison]

Ben-  Re: the Capitol police officers that stood down; some were either sympathetic with the cause, some, particularly those outside on the perimeter, saw they were outnumbered and valued their own survival. Many other officers did not stand down, as exemplified by the 150 officers injured that day.

The best thing to do to get insight on what was happening on the ground at the Capitol that day, would be to read this brilliant bit of journalism put together by numerous reporters at the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/jan-6-insurrection-capitol/

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben-  Re: the Capitol police officers that stood down; some were either sympathetic with the cause, some, particularly those outside on the perimeter, saw they were outnumbered and valued their own survival. Many other officers did not stand down, as exemplified by the 150 officers injured that day.

The best thing to do to get insight on what was happening on the ground at the Capitol that day, would be to read this brilliant bit of journalism put together by numerous reporters at the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/jan-6-insurrection-capitol/

Matt-

I disagree.

The best way to find out what happened 1/6 is to read primary documents.

Would you trust M$M following the JFKA...or your own independent perusal of primary documents (and that of others not connected to M$M)? 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

But somehow the criminal company of Pfizer isn’t included in that group in democrats minds. 

Largest fines in pharmaceutical history, iron clad agreements to suppress adverse reactions for a decade, and the media is like "nothing to see here folks", and society is like "they're the good guys saving lives."

 

[Joe Bauer]

22 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1459116740407930882

Jonathan Karl

 

@jonkarl

 

"When I interviewed Trump for "Betrayal" and asked him about his supporters chanting "Hang Mike Pence", he didn't condemn them, he defended them. Here's a clip from the interview. More audio from the genuinely shocking interview will air Sunday on@ThisWeekABC "

 

"Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?" Trump was asked.

"No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape. No. Because I had heard he was in very good shape. But, but, no, I think — " the former president blandly replied as Karl interjected, "Because you heard those chants — that was terrible. I mean — "

"He could have — well, the people were very angry," Trump replied before going on an extended rant.

"Because it's common sense, Jon. It's common sense that you're supposed to protect. How can you — if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? — how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?" Trump asked. "How can you do that?"

Steve Thomas

How can any rational, half-way intelligent person read Trump's words above ( in all their disjointed, meandering, stammering, thrice repeated, scattered thought jumbleness ) and not see the mental illness pathology of the man?

Like a hyped up meth addict rant. 

And Trump "is" trying to downplay the real life threat to Pence ( and hundreds of members of congress and capitol police ) and in that perversely unfeeling and seditious vein, defend the insurrectionist mob.

How did we get through this seriously disturbed obsessive false reality promoting person as president without dividing and damaging us all even further?

Trump's obsession with trying to create and promote a false reality that he did not lose the election is so overwhelming in it's never ending intensity it's gut wrenching to keep hearing him repeat this at every opportunity.

 

[Matt Allison]

49 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

How can any rational, half-way intelligent person read Trump's words above ( in all their disjointed, meandering, stammering, thrice repeated, scattered thought jumbleness ) and not see the mental illness pathology of the man?

Like a hyped up meth addict rant. 

And Trump "is" trying to downplay the real life threat to Pence ( and hundreds of members of congress and capitol police ) and in that perversely unfeeling and seditious vein, defend the insurrectionist mob.

How did we get through this seriously disturbed obsessive false reality promoting person as president without dividing and damaging us all even further?

Trump's obsession with trying to create and promote a false reality that he did not lose the election is so overwhelming in it's never ending intensity it's gut wrenching to keep hearing him repeat this at every opportunity.

 

His cognitive decline was apparently visibly precipitous following his election loss, although I'd argue it had been happening for a number of years.

[Matt Allison]

Ben- I don't ascribe to your boogieman theory about the Washington Post. The article is not an opinion piece.

I am unfamiliar with the news outlets in England, but journalism is still taken seriously here in the U.S. MSNBC and other MSM outlets covered Biden's decision on the JFK documents; the reality is that the public just doesn't care that much about the subject anymore. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

His cognitive decline was apparently visibly precipitous following his election loss, although I'd argue it had been happening for a number of years.

It might be nice if political parties stopped offering up candidates that are 70+. Cognitive decline technically starts at around 30 years old. Our expectations are perhaps completely wrong expecting pioneers, great leadership and good judgment from people who are not only spent forces, but, that weren't remarkable in any single way as young or middle aged men. 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

It might be nice if political parties stopped offering up candidates that are 70+. Cognitive decline technically starts at around 30 years old. Our expectations are perhaps completely wrong expecting pioneers, great leadership and good judgment from people who are not only spent forces, but, that weren't remarkable in any single way as young or middle aged men. 

On the contrary, Chris, wisdom and judgment typically increase with age and experience.

Of course, the trajectories of judgment and cognitive impairments vary greatly from person to person.

A young person may be judicious, and an elderly person foolish, but, as a rule, people acquire more wisdom with age and experience-- if they have a capacity to learn from their mistakes.

For example, when I was a sophomore in college, I admired Nietzsche.

Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now... 🤥

Edited November 13, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

On the contrary, Chris, wisdom and judgment typically increase with age and experience.

Of course, the trajectories of judgment and cognitive impairments vary greatly from person to person.

A young person may be judicious, and an elderly person foolish, but, as a rule, people acquire more wisdom with age and experience-- if they have a capacity to learn from their mistakes.

For example, when I was a sophomore in college, I admired Nietzsche.

Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now... 🤥

Hey William, I'm talking about cognitive decline, and Mr T and Mr B, showing distinct signs. You're talking about increased knowledge/judgment acquired through experience and longevity. There is obviously a curve when brain function and acquired knowledge converge, indicating the best of both. Obviously there are a great deal of variables. It's not good if you have a lifetime of learning, wisdom and knowledge, and your brain can't function to remember it or organise it, so that it can be used in an efficient way. Do you think Biden & Trump are at the peak of their cognitive function? Or, that parties should look for younger candidates? 

Why don't you admire Nietzsche now? 

[W. Niederhut]

38 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Hey William, I'm talking about cognitive decline, and Mr T and Mr B, showing distinct signs. You're talking about increased knowledge/judgment acquired through experience and longevity. There is obviously a curve when brain function and acquired knowledge converge, indicating the best of both. Obviously there are a great deal of variables. It's not good if you have a lifetime of learning, wisdom and knowledge, and your brain can't function to remember it or organise it, so that it can be used in an efficient way. Do you think Biden & Trump are at the peak of their cognitive function? Or, that parties should look for younger candidates? 

Why don't you admire Nietzsche now? 

Chris,

    The Republican propaganda establishment has been relentlessly attacking Biden's age this year, in a variation on the way they relentlessly attacked Obama's ethnicity and Hillary's gender.  (Remember the Karl Rove/Fox/Rush Limbaugh meme about Obama being a Muslim?)

    Where were these Republican concerns about presidential dementia during the Reagan and Trump years? 🤥

    But, to answer your question, no, I don't believe Biden and Trump are in their cognitive wonder years.  Yet, there is a vast difference between the two men in their experience and knowledge of domestic and foreign policy issues, not to mention values and commitment to the public good. 

     The Fox Trumpagandists keep pushing their "Biden is demented" meme-- even televising Deep Fake edited videos of Biden's speeches.*  Yet, Biden has consistently delivered exemplary addresses to the nation-- before and after his Inauguration-- which debunk the Fox dementia advertising.

     As for your question about Nietzsche, in a nutshell, he was a brilliant philologist and early interpreter of European Christian civilization in relation to paganism, but, IMO, his ethics were deeply flawed, and his metaphysics were absurd-- e.g., advocating amor fati on the basis of his concept of the "eternal return."

     Nietzsche viewed Christian humanitarian ethics as "slave ethics."  Kindness and compassion are weakness.  Presumably, we should return to the pagan era when humans were killed for sport in the ludi.  (We're slowly getting back to that ethic in our modern neo-pagan era.)

 

*

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

As for your question about Nietzsche, in a nutshell, he was a brilliant philologist and early interpreter of European Christian civilization in relation to paganism, but, IMO, his ethics were deeply flawed, and his metaphysics were absurd-- e.g., advocating amor fati on the basis of his concept of the "eternal return."

     Nietzsche viewed Christian humanitarian ethics as "slave ethics."  Kindness and compassion are weakness.  Presumably, we should return to the pagan era when humans were killed for sport in the ludi.  (We're slowly getting back to that ethic in our modern neo-pagan era.)

Interesting observations. He also seemed to mostly behind individualism but, at times blurred with collectivist values in his writings. Regarding kindness and compassion, dare I sound like a heretic and say; there is a balance though right?! You have to be cruel to be kind at times. I think I'd agree on his perception of Christian/western civilisation and his value as a psychologist. He was a visionary for his time, a true intellectual but, like many of them, some of their ideas don't age well. Freud gets slammed now for a lot of things but, he has merit in some areas in my humble opinion. You're a Christian right? You have faith? I see Christianity as an instrument of control, compliance and obedience, I went to religious schools. 
I don't fancy the pagan era again, that's for sure. 

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

    The Republican propaganda establishment has been relentlessly attacking Biden's age this year, in a variation on the way they relentlessly attacked Obama's ethnicity and Hillary's gender.  (Remember the Karl Rove/Fox/Rush Limbaugh meme about Obama being a Muslim?)

    Where were these Republican concerns about presidential dementia during the Reagan and Trump years? 🤥

    But, to answer your question, no, I don't believe Biden and Trump are in their cognitive wonder years.  Yet, there is a vast difference between the two men in their experience and knowledge of domestic and foreign policy issues, not to mention values and commitment to the public good. 

     The Fox Trumpagandists keep pushing their "Biden is demented" meme-- even televising Deep Fake edited videos of Biden's speeches.*  Yet, Biden has consistently delivered exemplary addresses to the nation-- before and after his Inauguration-- which debunk the Fox dementia advertising.

- They're always attacking someone, the opposition, its the political game of reputation destruction. It never matters if it is or isn't true, only whether it wins/loses votes at elections, in this charade.

- You can't expect impartiality in this red blue tribal bitching match. Look at this thread. It's all my team vs your team. Reagan was declining, bigtime. 

- Neither are MENSA material right now. I don't know whether Biden's experience is a pro or a con. Let's look at this objectively. He was smiling all over his face when Bush II signed the declaration of war with Iraq. Whilst I think Orange man was putting articles in the paper saying we shouldn't be sending our boys to Iraq. Wasn't Trump a Democrat back then? On one hand, you have Biden unremarkably sat in congress since about 1974, learning from the best crooks in politics, whilst Trump was being a ruthless real estate crook. I obviously know one of them is more dignified in public and the other fulfils the stereotypes Europeans have of Americans, unfortunately. In early comments people are talking about the deep state and the political corruption. What really matters is whether Trump or Biden are doing that bidding, or both of them. Also, are you the impression that Biden or Trump made foreign policy? It has occurred to me that Biden's experience with foreign policy (war on terror) might a) go against him being a good candidate, as the US, Britain etc massive screwed up. And b) If our JFK reading tells us anything, his experience of foreign policy is probably that the Pentagon and CIA passed down very heavy recommendations that he and Obama followed, in a subservient manner. So I think that's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 

[Jeff Carter]

I still have my DVD copy of Robert Greenwald’s 2004 documentary Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War On Journalism. The film charts the rise of Fox News in the wake of the loss of the Fairness Doctrine, and the development of a news product informed by top-down partisan editorial lines, exemplified by Roger Ailes’ “Second Floor” memos. Fox News was still something of an outlier at the time the film was made, but its blurry news/editorial mash, partisan spin, and manufactured (non) stories are today commonplace across the corporate news media. Buyer beware.

As per the 1/6 “attack on democracy”: the dog that doesn’t bark for me is the glaring lack of security for Pence and Pelosi, both of whom were in the direct line of succession for the federal government, in fact #2 and #3 respectively. I cannot fathom how either were allowed to be close to any degree of threat or danger, or how the fact that either supposedly were has not resulted in a massive review of security and attendant resignations. Lacking such response is a clue that this is mostly a public relations exercise which will predictably end in new legislation broadly curtailing protest and dissent in general under the rubric of preventing “domestic terrorism”.

It’s also useful to recall that many of the Congressional figures expressing outrage and dismay over the 1/6 events have long supported US government programs which have harnessed political violence directed towards adversary governments in diverse places such as Nicaragua and Hong Kong (Pelosi praised HK protesters after they trashed the city’s legislature in summer of 2019). In fact, the 2014 coup in Kiev was almost a carbon copy of the future event in D.C. with a right-wing mob storming the parliament intent on inflicting violence on the legislators within who were voting on a matter with which the mob disagreed. The difference being the mob was successful in 2014, managing to halt the vote, chase the politicians out of the building, and have their self-declared new government deemed “legitimate” - by the Obama State Department - within a few hours.

[Micah Mileto]

8 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

It might be nice if political parties stopped offering up candidates that are 70+. Cognitive decline technically starts at around 30 years old. Our expectations are perhaps completely wrong expecting pioneers, great leadership and good judgment from people who are not only spent forces, but, that weren't remarkable in any single way as young or middle aged men. 

Psychology is more of a religion than a science, and any "tests" they claim to have should be treated with extreme skepticism. Mental healthcare workers are all guilty of shoving their own personal, political, and philosophical opinions down people's throat in a very unnecessary way, and calling it objective fact. ALSO JFK researchers should be skeptical of those "mental health reports" of Oswald and other figures in the assassination - they probably lie in their reports as often as the Police.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Micah Mileto