Unveiling The Limo Stop

[Chris Davidson]

5 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

 

Having worked for the Lottery for many years, the "/1" is assumed 🙂

If that was what you meant by:

... as ratios can be many things.  Ratio's as differences in relation to what?  I assumed you meant to a single frame, 
the /1.

the quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.  e.g. "the ratio of computers to students is now 2 to 1"

Sorry if this wasn't clear.

The same ratio reflecting the differences in frame total spans, previously provided.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

And,

604-486 =118frames

Now, let me rephrase some of Myer's study for you:

"Doing all of this subtraction/differences, I ended up with 118 hypothetical Zapruder frames."

 

I am not sure what this is all about.

But the last frame of Towner's footage (T160) was i (today) think at pseudo Z111.

Before today I thort that T160 was at pseudo Z118, based on the jfklimo going at 20 f/s when in that vicinity.

Today my pseudo Z111 above is based on the limo going at 13.5 f/s & based on the limo being 20ft past where the limo was when Oswald fired his shot-1 (at which time jfk was hidden from Oswald by the overhead signal arm).

My previous pseudo Z118 above was based on the limo going at 20 f/s (which was my original estimated speed).

I am not sure what diff this makes to your calcs.

 

Oswald's shot-1 was after T155 & before T156, based on T160 being Towner's last frame.

If the Towner film is at the same rate as the Zapruder film then Oswald's shot-1  hit (the overhead signal arm) at pseudo Z104-105.

Which is getting close to Holland's estimate many years ago of pseudo Z103.

Before today i had said pseudo Z113, but today (based on the slower jfklimo speed)  i reckon pseudo Z104-105.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Chris Davidson]

 

[Chris Davidson]

Paul,

The early reenactments placed JFK's position at Elev. 418.35, which was later moved east up Elm to 418.48 to make us believe that an adjustment of 418.48 -418.35 = .13 x 18.3 = 2.37ft horizontal difference mistake was made. Robert West didn't make that change.

The 421.75 elev. entered on CE884 is just a 3.27ft elev added for JFK's height above the street. Which, once again, was used in every single CE884 entry. As far as I know, JFK didn't get hit in the same location on his body throughout the entire shooting.

In essence, the horizontal distance of 2.37ft was the distance between two shots.

Look back at the white object gif, and ask yourself how fast do you believe the limo is traveling between those two frames.

Remember, according to the "Stopping Distance Calculator" that's the minimal distance it would take for the limo to stop at 7.47mph, not including the driver's reaction time.

This might help you appreciate some of the math that was being used to create the final z masterpiece.

 

 

 

 

[Paul Bacon]

1 hour ago, Chris Davidson said:

This might help you appreciate some of the math that was being used to create the final z masterpiece.

Apparently the masterpiece has some flaws... :>)

Thanks Chris.  I shall continue to follow along.

[Chris Davidson]

If the previous post makes sense, you could see how that distance between shots, coupled with Donald Thomas's acoustical results, might indicate the approx/actual speed of the limo during those shots.

In other words, 2.37ft/.71sec = 3.338ft per sec / 1.47 = approx 2.27mph.

I used .71 instead of .7(Thomas' Entry)for a specific reason, don't worry about it for now.

Take a look back at what DJ and Tim tell you the speed of the limo is, leading up to/including the extant shots.

And, take note of the two shot sequence, via location from(Thomas' work). 

Another frontal shot is missing from the extant film.

PS. I could be terribly wrong, but the math doesn't lie.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Chris Davidson
Changed frontal to another

[David Josephs]

7 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

A frontal shot is missing from the extant film.

[Chris Davidson]

I have changed the word 'frontal" to "another" to describe the first of two shots for now.

Sorry about that.

This doesn't mean I believe it didn't come from the front, just not sure about the exact location.

The location of the 2nd shot, the extant rear headshot didn't come from the TSBD as listed by Thomas. imo

It did originate from approx 240ft away.

As you read the excerpt, the way it is phrased, picture where the person at 240ft would be in relationship to the person at 265ft as they are trying to connect this back to the TSBD.

Or, to paraphrase, the 240ft shot was to the right of the 265ft shot, and to the right of the silhouette.

 

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Paul,

The early reenactments placed JFK's position at Elev. 418.35, which was later moved east up Elm to 418.48 to make us believe that an adjustment of 418.48 -418.35 = .13 x 18.3 = 2.37ft horizontal difference mistake was made. Robert West didn't make that change.

The 421.75 elev. entered on CE884 is just a 3.27ft elev added for JFK's height above the street. Which, once again, was used in every single CE884 entry. As far as I know, JFK didn't get hit in the same location on his body throughout the entire shooting.

In essence, the horizontal distance of 2.37ft was the distance between two shots.

Look back at the white object gif, and ask yourself how fast do you believe the limo is traveling between those two frames.

Remember, according to the "Stopping Distance Calculator" that's the minimal distance it would take for the limo to stop at 7.47mph, not including the driver's reaction time.

This might help you appreciate some of the math that was being used to create the final z masterpiece.

 

 

 

 

Basic Conversions:

7.47mph = 10.95ft per sec (using 1.466) as the mph conversion

10.95ft x .71sec(time between two shots) = 7.77ft

.71sec x 18.3fps = 13 frames @ 7.47mph

From previous post above, distance between two shots = 2.37ft/.71sec = 3.338ft per sec / 1.47 = approx 2.27mph. = .182ft per frame

2.37ft / .182ft per frame = 13.02frames

Referring back to Chris B:

"The position of the limo on Elm is so well documented by Nix, Z, and Muchmore that we can place it within a couple inches. What we see of the limo in 312 would relate to frame 302, about a 7 ft difference in the position of the limo. We also know right where Z was on the pedestal and so the only other option is that the limo had to be turned. If the film was altered then Anything Goes."

I would say 7ft vs. 7.77ft is fairly close, along with the same amount of frames for the extant 7.47mph and 2.27mph scenarios, based on the acoustical time via Thomas.

 

 

 

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Chris Davidson said:

I have changed the word 'frontal" to "another" to describe the first of two shots for now.

Sorry about that.

This doesn't mean I believe it didn't come from the front, just not sure about the exact location.

The location of the 2nd shot, the extant rear headshot didn't come from the TSBD as listed by Thomas. imo

It did originate from approx 240ft away.

As you read the excerpt, the way it is phrased, picture where the person at 240ft would be in relationship to the person at 265ft as they are trying to connect this back to the TSBD.

Or, to paraphrase, the 240ft shot was to the right of the 265ft shot, and to the right of the silhouette.

 

 

 

 

From the 6th floor the targets do move left to right...

From a lower Dal-tex floor, the more one moves to the left, south, away from the TSBD SE corner, the farther to the right a shot 240' away becomes; when at some point the 265' shot is to the left of the 240' shot.

Far enough to the south and you are on the county records building roof - the same place Buddy Walthers was, about which he threatened Roger Craig for exposing his position there.

Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by David Josephs

[Chris Davidson]

More clearly stated,

Move the shooter, as he is facing the limo, to the right of the TSBD and to the right of the limo.

The Bronson flash is the approx 240ft straightline(added on edit) plotted distance to the elev. 418.35 headshot from behind.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Chris Davidson
straight line added on edit

[David Josephs]

38 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

More clearly stated,

Move the shooter, as he is facing the limo, to the right of the TSBD and to the right of the limo.

The Bronson flash is the approx 240ft plotted distance to the elev. 418.35 headshot from behind.

Uh, wouldn't this Bronson flash be to the left of Elm facing the limo, to the West/left of the TSBD, not East, looking up Elm at the limo? Then again maybe I 'm just tired and not thinking straight.

edit.. you mean the shooter looking down towards the limo from behind.  I see.  But that would still put 240's target to the left of 265's...  I think

I've looked at all the versions of this film I have and they all end before this frame.  Kinda wish there was a repository for all the best versions of the key films and photos... knowing full well there has been a 60 year effort to suppress such things.

Edited May 7, 2023 by David Josephs

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

From the 6th floor the targets do move left to right...

From a lower Dal-tex floor, the more one moves to the left, south, away from the TSBD SE corner, the farther to the right a shot 240' away becomes; when at some point the 265' shot is to the left of the 240' shot.

Far enough to the south and you are on the county records building roof - the same place Buddy Walthers was, about which he threatened Roger Craig for exposing his position there.

Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

So the limo was down to about 2.3 MPH?  I thought it was an officer other than Walthers on top of the records building, who told a reporter when asked, I shoot lots of people.

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

I thought it was an officer other than Walthers on top of the records building, who told a reporter when asked, I shoot lots of people.

I stand corrected... thanks Ron...  I knew it was Weatherford, guess my fingers had made up their own mind
what name to type.. 

I have yet to confirm the last paragraph in the article below.  "Weatherford" does not appear in Craig's WC or Shaw trial testimony so he may have said it in the Lane interview... confirmation would be great.

DJ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AJohn_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories%2FArchive_2

In 1963, Jim Bowles was a D.P.D. sergeant. He was later promoted to Dallas Sheriff (Chief of Police). He was asked if he knew about Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford waiting on the roof of a building near the assassination site with a rifle.

- Bowles replied: “Yes, Harry Weatherford was on the roof with a second deputy, and he had a rifle. They were assigned there for security. My first recollection of the suggestion that Weatherford might have been implicated was from the imagination of Penn Jones who, so far as I know, never worried about the other deputy. It would seem strange that a hit man would be stationed with a living witness. It does not fit reason.” [8] - - A reporter asked Weatherford shortly after the assassination if he had shot the President. Weatherford replied, "You son of a bitch, I kill lots of people". - - Harry Weatherford told a different story: " I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office watching the Presidential Motorcade. The President's car had passed my location a couple of minutes when I heard a loud report which I thought was a railroad torpedo, as it sounded as if it came from the railroad yard." - - "I heard a 2nd report which had more of an echo report and thought to myself, that this was a rifle and I started toward the corner when I heard the 3rd report. By this time I was running towards the railroad yards where the sound seemed to come from. I got with Deputy Allan Sweatt and was searching the tracks and cars, etc, then someone said the shots came from above." [9]

[Ron Bulman]

16 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Classic, great find, thanks.  . . . there will be a Goddamned gun battle".