Jim DiEugenio vs Fred Litwin

[James DiEugenio]

Ok SR thanks.  None of the three have been to Clinton/Jackson. Or did any field investigation in the Crescent City,

Now, let me add a rather interesting aspect to this whole episode which touches on both Oswald being there and the Cherami case.

In conducting a criminal inquiry, as any DA or police investigator will tell you, one of the things you look for is corroboration and also, if you can find it, independent corroboration.  McGehee's barber shop, as I said, was on one of the main streets as you come into Jackson. Oswald went there first.  He told McGehee that a barber shop was always a good place to start a conversation and gather information. He then asked for a good place to file a job application.  Since the barber shop was in Jackson, McGehee suggested the hospital.  But Oswald seemed surprised when Ed told him it was a sanitarium. (IMO, this is a key point. in two ways.)  Ed then suggested that Reeves Morgan, a state rep might be able to help him.  Although McGehee noted a car outside and then heard it drive away, he never got a good look at the car.

Edited May 28, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[Joseph McBride]

I saw a very good documentary about the Clinton episode.

It ran in LA one night in the nineties and then vanished. 

[James DiEugenio]

Oswald then showed up at Reeves Morgan's home in the evening.  Reeves' son was playing in the front yard. HIs daughter was inside the house when Oswald came calling.  Morgan's house is in the outskirts of Jackson, very hard to find--dirt road all the way.  In fact when I was last there with Ed, it was not easy to find. (Unfortunately, Reeves had passed on.)

Reeves Morgan told Oswald that if he applied at the hospital he would probably have to take a civil service exam, and it would help if he was a registered voter.  I interviewed Mary Morgan in the nineties. She was sure it was Oswald at their house that night. Her brother Van, who I also interviewed added that since he was in the front yard he noted the car.  It was a black Cadillac, and the driver had a shock of white hair.

PS Joe is referring to Rough Side of the Mountain.  And it is good.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

That car that Van Morgan saw next turns up in Clinton, across the street from the registrar, near the court house, a majestic building on what must be at least a two acre lot.

What no one knew was that there was a CORE voter drive going on.  Oswald would have to wait in line. Because the drive was by CORE, Oswald was a bit conspicuous. But further, so was the car, and also the two occupants. Since the wait was rather long, they got out of the car to stretch a bit.  One was identified as being quite tall, well over six feet, and distinguished looking; the other was kind of weird looking with "unusual hair". 

The CORE workers began to wonder about the car and whether it was the FBI.  So the registrar, Mr. Palmer asked the sheriff, John Manchester, to see if it was the FBI.  Manchester went over to the car and asked the driver for his name and ID. He also wanted to know if he had any relation to the rally, whether he was monitoring it or trying to cause a disturbance. The man said he had no business in the area.  He then turned over his DL and said his name was Clay Shaw which matched his license.

Then Palmer approached Oswald and asked what he was doing there.  He said that he wanted to get a job at the hospital and he was told his chances would increase if he was a registered voter. Palmer said that was not accurate, as he knew people from Mississippi who were working there.  As Gloria Wilson then said, Oswald turned around, headed toward the Cadillac and the car drove away. It ended up at the hospital, where three witnesses either recalled Oswald being there or his file.

Edited May 28, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Now, here is how this relates to the Cherami case.

Palmer was trying to check on where Oswald was from since he had never seen him before and Clinton was a very small town, as was Jackson. So he asked him if he knew anyone in the area.  Oswald gave two names, one was Frank Silva and one was Malcom Pierson.

When the HSCA investigated the incident they got a roster of the doctors at the hospital in 1963. Both men worked there. 

When Garrison reopened his investigation in 1967, Dr. Pierson called Garrison and told him about Rose Cherami and what she said in 1963.

Edited May 29, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let me add another point about the Marcades  book.

If you read the HSCA report on Cherami, you can see that the intent is to try and say that there really was not anything out of the ordinary about her death, and it was due to a car accident.

Michael shows that this is not the case. Through pretty compelling evidence he  makes a good case that Rose was murdered,  the scene was made to look like an accident, and she was not DOA.

I had suspected this, but he went the last nine yards.  

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me add another point about the Marcades  book.

If you read the HSCA report on Cherami, you can see that the intent is to try and say that there really was not anything out of the ordinary about her death, and it was due to a car accident.

Michael shows that this is not the case. Through pretty compelling evidence he  makes a good case that Rose was murdered,  the scene was made to look like an accident, and she was not DOA.

I had suspected this, but he went the last nine yards.  

Good stuff Jim.  As always.  As you know from the book, Rose was shot in the head per existing hospital examination records.  The autopsy, which was done, disappeared if I remember right.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Fred Litwin explains why it is highly unlikely that anyone heard Rose Cherami predict the JFK Assassination.

Did Anybody Hear Rose Cherami Predict the JFK Assassination? (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[James DiEugenio]

There is nothing that could pass for an autopsy report. 

I don't know whether that was disappeared or whether it was just never done.  I think its the latter.

That is a disgrace, because not only should that have been done, there should have been an  inquest.  That is how suspicious the circumstances about her death were. 

[James DiEugenio]

Now, when Garrison got onto the Cherami case, he wanted to do the inquest, and he wanted to start by exhuming the body.  He got no cooperation from the authorities or her family, so he dropped it.

But through his connections in Baton Rouge, he got Fruge and DIschler transferred to his office.  He wanted Fruge to find out what Cherami's route was the night he picked her up and transferred her to the state hospital.  This is how Fruge found out about US highway 190 and the seedy bar Rose was last seen at before she was hit by a car driven by Frank Odum.

Fruge did the groundwork and reported back to Garrison. The DA then put together a pack of photos for Fruge to take  to the saloon and show the bartender who was there the night of the altercation and distinctly recalled it. So Fruge returned to the Silver Slipper and  bartender Mac Manual with the photos from Garrison's office. What is important to note here is that since Fruge was new to the case, he did not even know who the pictures depicted.  So there could be no leading the witness.

Manual picked out the pictures of Sergio Arcacha Smith and Emilio Santana. One of the reasons he recalled them was that they had been there more than once. I don't have to tell you what happened later with these two guys.  Smith was protected by Litwin's buddy, that "great reporter"  Hugh Aynseworth, who in reality was an FBI/CIA flunkie. And, as Lou Ivon told me, Santana escaped into the Miami Cuban exile underground.

Nice job that the Warren Commission did, huh?

Edited May 29, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Did Rose Cherami Provide Invaluable Information on Dope Smuggling? (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[Calvin Ye]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Did Rose Cherami Provide Invaluable Information on Dope Smuggling? (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

My criticism of Fred's take on Rose Cheramie is that he didn't read the available books on Rose Cheramie and instead rely only on documents proving his case.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Calvin Ye

[James DiEugenio]

 

As noted, Cherami was identified with two men deeply involved in  the CIA/Cuban underground, namely Smith and Santana, when she was unceremoniously dumped near Eunice in November of 1963. Smith was involved with the Bay of Pigs and the whole Belle Chase training station for Mongoose, which Ferrie was  part of.  In fact, the information that Garrison had was that Smith used his professed State Department connections as a cover for his CIA credentials. I mean how else does one get films of the Bay of Pigs invasion? Which Smith had, and watched, with Ferrie. I would not be surprised that the guy who helped Santana escape into Miami was Bernardo De Torres, who was also part of the Bay of Pigs and later worked for Mitch Werbell, CIA arms wizard.  Some suspect that Werbell  designed directionally silenced rifles used in Dealey Plaza.

Now, near the end of Fruge's HSCA deposition he said something that was potentially a bombshell, and goes further to certify the evidentiary primacy of the Cherami story. And the very suspicious circumstances surrounding her death.

This is the depo summary as to what he said: "Mr. Fruge asked if this Committee had found that diagrams of the sewer system in Dealey Plaza were found in Arcacha Smith's apartment in Dallas.  He thinks that captain Will Fritz might have mentioned something about that, but Mr. Fruge was not sure on this point."

(IMO, in the above, Fruge is ambiguous not about the maps but about who told him the information.)

But its even worse than that.  We know that DeTorres infiltrated Garrison's investigation and then within 24 hours after Ferrie was killed, Eladio del Valle, Ferrie's pal, was found murdered.  The note to Garrison about this said it was done gangland style and his body was found in the vicinity of DeTorres' apartment. The HSCA found evidence indicating DeTorres was in Dealey Plaza that day and had pictures of what happened which he kept in a safe and refused to sell to Life magazine. Further that, like Smth and Santana, he had talked about the assassination before it happened.

As I mentioned previously, in Nagell's first interview with Garrison's rep he said he had a tape recording of two Cubans talking with Oswald, one was Smith.  Also, how in in the heck did  Oswald know the names of Drs. Pierson and Silva, who he gave to Palmer while waiting to register in Clinton. 

Well, maybe this way: it turns out that Silva knew Smith. And we all know--except for maybe Fred--that Ferrie and Smith were good buddies.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

As I said at the start, a key point that investigators and DA's look for is corroboration and the best kind,  which is independent. That is plentiful here: for starters, you have Fruge, Weiss, Pierson, Owen, White, Wilbans.  (For more, see also Todd Elliott's pamphlet, "A Rose by Any other Name".)

As indicated above, there is also evidence of how she knew about this plot she was talking about.

Another point that professional investigators look for is: can you weave an interconnecting mosaic out of the information so that it fits together to show people working in concert to commit a crime?  Again, the above.

The Cherami evidence, and all its ramifications, were strongly indicative of a plot arranged by the Cuban exiles in concert with the CIA.  This is why the politicians in Baton Rouge fabricated a tall tale to get Dischler and Fruge suspended from Garrison's inquiry.  After all, it was a Jim Crow state, and Kennedy was pushing for integration harder than any other president before him. 

But to add one last point, the fact that Fruge and Dischler were forced to leave, this caused Garrison to abort another investigation, near Baton Rouge. In the town of Walker, again before the assassination, a guy who looked like Oswald was creating a mild disturbance and said he just came from Cuba  to Florida and was on his way to Dallas.  A similar incident happened in Lafayette. A guy who called himself Lee Harvey Oswald had become truculent at the Holiday Inn and criticized the Kennedy family.  The guy was so bad he made the waitress weep. 

 Fruge and Dischler had to be removed. And they were.

Calvin:  Fred is much worse than that.  As I have shown, his postings are worthless and pernicious  for a myriad of reasons.

Edited May 30, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

As I said at the start, a key point that investigators and DA's look for is corroboration and the best kind,  which is independent. That is plentiful here: for starters, you have Fruge, Weiss, Pierson, Owen, White, Wilbans.  (For more, see also Todd Elliott's pamphlet, "A Rose by Any other Name".)

As indicated above, there is also evidence of how she knew about this plot she was talking about.

Another point that professional investigators look for is: can you weave an interconnecting mosaic out of the information so that it fits together to show people working in concert to commit a crime?  Again, the above.

The Cherami evidence, and all its ramifications, were strongly indicative of a plot arranged by the Cuban exiles in concert with the CIA.  This is why the politicians in Baton Rouge fabricated a tall tale to get Dischler and Fruge suspended from Garrison's inquiry.  After all, it was a Jim Crow state, and Kennedy was pushing for integration harder than any other president before him. 

But to add one last point, the fact that Fruge and Dischler were forced to leave, this caused Garrison to abort another investigation, near Baton Rouge. In the town of Walker, again before the assassination, a guy who looked like Oswald was creating a mild disturbance and said he just came from Cuba  to Florida and was on his way to Dallas.  A similar incident happened in Lafayette. A guy who called himself Lee Harvey Oswald had become truculent at the Holiday Inn and criticized the Kennedy family.  The guy was so bad he made the waitress weep. 

 Fruge and Dischler had to be removed. And they were.

Calvin:  Fred is much worse than that.  As I have shown, his postings are worthless and pernicious  for a myriad of reasons.

Jim D. knows his stuff (to put it mildly), and the Rose Cheramie angle is compelling.

 

That LHO knew Clay Shaw, Ferrie and many other anti-Castro elements, or CIA assets in New Orleans, seems beyond reasonable doubt. The Clinton episode is just one of many. 

Researchers should remember that affidavits and other paper materials were often "bent" by officials to fit a narrative. Back then there were no smartphones, and tape-recordings were not routinely made (indeed, the FBI by rule did not tape-record interviews---to what purpose?). Even LHO was interviewed without a tape recorder and scant note-taking.  

Beyond all that, earnest JFKA researchers are trying to pry the truth out of opaque and obstructionist government officials. Sometimes disinformation is planted. Other times information is destroyed. 

Jeez, if you want to find fault in the JFKA, I think officialdom is front and center by a mile. The most important political murder in US history results in the shoddy investigation and an ersatz autopsy, and bogus evidence (CE399). 

Just happened that way? Rather unlikely, no? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Benjamin Cole
typo/small add on