Dr. Cyril Wecht Gets One Right

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Dr. Cyril Wecht Gets One Right (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[Micah Mileto]

Is this copium for Marquette University no longer paying the CIA's internet bills? Gotta make sure something shows up in the search engines when people search for evidence of a conspiracy. Mcadams.posc.mu.edu is out, and Jfk-online.com looks like it's on the last legs of it's life.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Micah Mileto

[Ron Bulman]

What a twist.  Did you or fred watch the film?  The former long term President of the American Academy of Forensic SCIENTIST'S points out none of them, other prominent ones from NYC, Boston, Washington and elsewhere less than 1 - 1 1/12 hours away were called for the autopsy Of The President.  Inexperienced military general pathologists were Used, Finck was an after thought as a reviewer of autopsies, Not an active expert Forensic Pathologist.  You are both ridiculous in your knowledge of or attempted manipulation of the Facts.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Steve Roe]

13 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Dr. Cyril Wecht Gets One Right (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

Dr. Wecht reviewed Ferrie's autopsy and concurred with Dr. Chetta findings that it was an Aneurysm. Also, he informed Garrison about Proloid overdoses not being the cause of death. Wecht even disagreed with the nature of the "suicide notes".

This is pretty amazing, because Garrison never mentions Wecht reviewing the autopsy upon his request, in his book. What kind of shady business is this? 

So, let's take a look a Mr. DiEugenio's take on Ferrie's death from his "Destiny Betrayed" book.  

"His body was found naked on his living room sofa; a sheet was pulled over his head. Two typed suicide notes were found. Neither one of them was signed. 16 The table next to his body was strewn with medicine bottles, several of them empty. Coroner Nicholas Chetta had the body moved out quickly, before Garrison and his staff arrived. Garrison took some of the medicine bottles in order to check them out. On February 28, Chetta ruled that Ferrie had died of natural causes, specifically, a berry aneurism or broken blood vessel in the brain. Garrison had his doubts, especially in light of the two typed suicide notes. He had Proloid, one of the drugs found in the apartment, analyzed and discovered that with Ferrie’s hypertension, this drug could cause death by brain aneurism without a trace. 17 There are other mysteries beyond the two suicide notes and the deadly drugs. 

Washington Post reporter George Lardner, Jr., claims he was with Ferrie until 4: 00 A.M., a time the coroner insisted was “absolutely the latest possible time of death.” This means that Ferrie must have died, by whatever means, within minutes of Lardner’s departure. 18 It could mean that, if Ferrie was murdered, the killers were waiting for Lardner to leave. And in fact, years later, when coroner Frank Minyard looked at the autopsy pictures of Ferrie, he noted contusions of the inside of the lower lip and gums. The day before he died, Ferrie had purchased 100 thyroid pills. When his body was discovered, they were gone. Minyard theorizes that if Ferrie was murdered, the killers may have mixed the pills into a solution and forced it down his throat with a tube. One of the contusions is on the inside of the lower lip where the tube may have struck during a struggle. With all these suspicious circumstances, why did Chetta rule as he did? In no one’s memory had someone left a suicide note— in this case, what could be considered two of them— and then died of natural causes. But Chetta apparently wanted to play it safe in the face of the tremendous publicity focused on Ferrie’s death. 19 Further, Chetta had first set the time of Ferrie’s death as before 4: 00 A.M. But then Lardner came forward and said he had been with the man until about four in the morning. This is when Chetta revised his time of death until 4: 00 A.M. as the absolute latest possible time of death. And further, Ferrie’s doctor Martin Palmer told author Joan Mellen he thought the autopsy was “slipshod.” He termed it not a full autopsy but a partial one. 20  

Ferrie’s death was a staggering body blow to Garrison’s inquiry. But his death was compounded by the death in that same twenty-four-hour period of Eladio Del Valle. As mentioned, Del Valle was a former congressman in Cuba under Batista. Once Castro took over, Del Valle joined the violent opposition to him."

DiEugenio, James. Destiny Betrayed: JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case (p. 226). Skyhorse. Kindle Edition. 

Now we have DiEugenio creating another false mystery, surrounding Ferrie's death. 

Hey, but what does Dr. Wecht know about autopsies? 

 

 

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

From Wikipedia, ""I suppose it could just be a weird coincidence that the night Ferrie penned two suicide notes, he died of natural causes."^[34]  " ( quoting Garrison) In his book, " Hit List", Belzer references a web site that describes how Ferrie's death could have been induced. 

[Pat Speer]

Forensic Pathologists are trained to look at certain facts and to not let strange circumstances and timing affect their decisions. The problem with this is that it opens the door for any person (or agency) who knows how to fake a death and make it look like natural causes. 

When I first got sucked into this quagmire, I noticed that a number of U.S. Senators dropped dead in the early 50's, and that this led to several transfers of power between the parties. I then discovered that this was the very period in which the CIA and the KGB were developing poisons to simulate heart attacks, etc. This has always bothered me. The subsequent death of Adlai Stevenson as he walked the streets of Paris is also suspicious, IMO. 

The point is that we can't trust autopsy protocols as to foul play because there are people and agencies who know how to beat the system. And one of the ironies of this case (or strange coincidences) is that the supposed top expert on poisons among pathologists was Chetta. 

So...I'm forever on the fence on this one. Another strange piece of the puzzle, which I put together, was the timing of Ferrie's death. It was just a few days after Ramsey Clark told LBJ Garrison was coming after him and that his star witness was Ferrie. Clark tells this to LBJ. Bingo. Ferrie turns up dead. That's a hard one to ignore.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Forensic Pathologists are trained to look at certain facts and to not let strange circumstances and timing affect their decisions. The problem with this is that it opens the door for any person (or agency) who knows how to fake a death and make it look like natural causes. 

When I first got sucked into this quagmire, I noticed that a number of U.S. Senators dropped dead in the early 50's, and that this led to several transfers of power between the parties. I then discovered that this was the very period in which the CIA and the KGB were developing poisons to simulate heart attacks, etc. This has always bothered me. The subsequent death of Adlai Stevenson as he walked the streets of Paris is also suspicious, IMO. 

The point is that we can't trust autopsy protocols as to foul play because there are people and agencies who know how to beat the system. And one of the ironies of this case (or strange coincidences) is that the supposed top expert on poisons among pathologists was Chetta. 

So...I'm forever on the fence on this one. Another strange piece of the puzzle, which I put together, was the timing of Ferrie's death. It was just a few days after Ramsey Clark told LBJ Garrison was coming after him and that his star witness was Ferrie. Clark tells this to LBJ. Bingo. Ferrie turns up dead. That's a hard one to ignore.

Pat S.--

I hope readers take this comment of yours to heart, the one regarding "beating a system," and autopsy protocols. If you know the system or protocol, then you can game the system or protocol. 

It is not only true in the JFK case, it is a truism. 

BTW, LBJ aide Cliff Carter, who may have played a role in the murder of an USDA agent named Henry Marshall, and even in the sequestering of evidence post-JFKA, died at age 53. Granted, men drank and smoked in those days. 

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-strange-strange-story-of-governor-connally-s-shirt-coat-and-congressman-henry-b-gonzalez

 

 

[Micah Mileto]

What was the story in the documentary, about the pathologists requesting somebody more experienced than Finck but being rejected and directed to proceed?

[Pat Speer]

23 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

What was the story in the documentary, about the pathologists requesting somebody more experienced than Finck but being rejected and directed to proceed?

I must admit I haven't watched the entire program, but this sounds like nonsense. It was a military autopsy. Finck was the top expert on gunshot wounds at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This idea that Finck wasn't qualified to conduct a Forensic Autopsy is nonsense started by Dr. Baden to help explain why the autopsy doctors concluded the bullet entered low on the back of the head.

Which, of course, it did...

Apparently, it was unthinkable to Baden and his colleagues on the FPP that Dr. Russell Fisher could be wrong when he contradicted the autopsy doctors and said the bullet really entered high on the back of the head. But that's the truth. Fisher told the Justice Department what they wanted to hear even though it made no sense, and no one in his profession had the balls to call him on it.

In his best moments, of course, Baden admitted that neither he nor any of his colleagues had experience with military rifle ammunition, and that he'd consulted with an Irish doctor named Tom Marshall, who'd conducted the autopsies on the Bloody Sunday victims.

It was later determined, however, that what Tom Marshall thought were standard military rifle ammunition wounds were really wounds caused by bullets with weakened casings, aka dum-dum bullets. 

[Ron Bulman]

20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I must admit I haven't watched the entire program, but this sounds like nonsense. It was a military autopsy. Finck was the top expert on gunshot wounds at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This idea that Finck wasn't qualified to conduct a Forensic Autopsy is nonsense started by Dr. Baden to help explain why the autopsy doctors concluded the bullet entered low on the back of the head.

Which, of course, it did...

Apparently, it was unthinkable to Baden and his colleagues on the FPP that Dr. Russell Fisher could be wrong when he contradicted the autopsy doctors and said the bullet really entered high on the back of the head. But that's the truth. Fisher told the Justice Department what they wanted to hear even though it made no sense, and no one in his profession had the balls to call him on it.

In his best moments, of course, Baden admitted that neither he nor any of his colleagues had experience with military rifle ammunition, and that he'd consulted with an Irish doctor named Tom Marshall, who'd conducted the autopsies on the Bloody Sunday victims.

It was later determined, however, that what Tom Marshall thought were standard military rifle ammunition wounds were really wounds caused by bullets with weakened casings, aka dum-dum bullets. 

Pat, you know this stuff So much better than I.  Pease educate me a little more once again.  

I didn't know Finck was the top expert on gunshot wounds at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.  I was under the impression he was a not practicing forensic pathologist, reviewing the work if others (because of his prior experience and expertise?) for several years. 

At least he was a Forensic Pathologist, unlike Humes and Boswell.  To whom he was subordinate in the military.  He was called in as an afterthought to bolster the lineup and thus arrived late and his forensic training and expertise were ignored/dismissed.   Then after the autopsy his notes were stolen while he wan in the cafeteria.  Further, he had to sign the non disclosure agreement all participants did.

I think Dr. Wecht has a point.  Maybe a half dozen of the top Forensic Pathologists in the US, not just the military, were within a couple of hours away.  It was the autopsy of the President.  Why were none of them called if the Truth was the objective?  Hell, there were Forensic Pathologists at Bethesda who could have done a better job, given the freedom to do so.

Note, Jim Dieugenio's recent revelation.  He's convinced LeMay was there.  I've been convinced O'Connor was telling the truth for years myself.

[Micah Mileto]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:51 PM, Pat Speer said:

I must admit I haven't watched the entire program, but this sounds like nonsense. It was a military autopsy. Finck was the top expert on gunshot wounds at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This idea that Finck wasn't qualified to conduct a Forensic Autopsy is nonsense started by Dr. Baden to help explain why the autopsy doctors concluded the bullet entered low on the back of the head.

Which, of course, it did...

Apparently, it was unthinkable to Baden and his colleagues on the FPP that Dr. Russell Fisher could be wrong when he contradicted the autopsy doctors and said the bullet really entered high on the back of the head. But that's the truth. Fisher told the Justice Department what they wanted to hear even though it made no sense, and no one in his profession had the balls to call him on it.

In his best moments, of course, Baden admitted that neither he nor any of his colleagues had experience with military rifle ammunition, and that he'd consulted with an Irish doctor named Tom Marshall, who'd conducted the autopsies on the Bloody Sunday victims.

It was later determined, however, that what Tom Marshall thought were standard military rifle ammunition wounds were really wounds caused by bullets with weakened casings, aka dum-dum bullets. 

Ah, ok. If that were true, it would be another drop in the ocean of issues.

[Micah Mileto]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:47 PM, Micah Mileto said:

What was the story in the documentary, about the pathologists requesting somebody more experienced than Finck but being rejected and directed to proceed?

This came from JAMA's 1992 article, Dr. Humes being quoted:

 

'Find the cause of death'

 

"My orders were to find the cause of death and I was told to get anyone I thought necessary to help do the autopsy, but to limit it to only the help I needed. Hell, I could have called in people from Paris and Rome if I thought it necessary, but as it turned out, I didn't. About this time, I also received a phone call from Dr. Bruce Smith, the deputy director of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology [AFIP], offering me whatever help I might need. Bruce was a friend and I thanked him, saying I would call later if I needed help."

 

[…]

 

No generals in the morgue

 

[...]

 

And a third myth - that he was not qualified to do a gunshot autopsy. "I'd done gunshot wounds before and this one was perfectly obvious - there was a huge hole on the right side of the President's head that could only have resulted from the exit of a high-velocity missile. Dr. Bruce Smith [the deputy director of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology] had initially thought we might want a neuropathologist as a consultant, but once we opened the casket and saw the devastating nature of the president's head wound, we knew that there was no need for the skills of a neuropathologist. I called Dr. Smith back and told him what we had found, and he decided to make available Dr. Pierre A. Finck, who was one of the AFIP's experts in ballistics. I had never be fore met Dr. Finck, who arrived at about 9:15 P.M."

 

So it is at least a fact that the autopsy pathologists could have potentially requested a more experienced person to join them, but the decision was made that Finck was enough.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Is the presence of two suicide notes in Ferry's apartment accepted as an "undisputed fact" by all debate sides?

If so, this in itself and by itself proves something is extremely suspicious and probably conspiratorial with Ferry's death...correct?

Ferry or someone else types these notes up, leaves them in clear sight and then Ferry just happens to lay down ( on a couch or bed) and die a natural death due to a spontaneous brain aneurism that occurs without any inducement by him?

Please.

[Guest]

I have yet to understand the 2 suicide notes, If it needs it to look a suicide, wouldn't a single note be a better idea ?

I'm trying to say,  a person in doubt would indeed write 2 notes, but a person in doubt would not kill himself (a long term process before getting there I was told).  However, I will agree Ferrie was not a "common" subject.

The CIA had little problems in killing foreign leaders, so they likely would have little problems killing a few witnesses to disturbing facts...

And 2 notes would fit in the create confusion strategy they use...

So... I'm getting nowhere... 👀    

Edited October 1, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Michael Griffith]

Dr. Wecht has done a great deal of fine work on the JFK case. I wish he had not commented on the alleged alien autopsy, but that does not change the fact that he has been right about the forensic evidence far more often than he has been wrong.

Technically speaking, Dr. Finck was qualified to help perform JFK's autopsy, since he was board certified in forensic pathology in 1961, but he had not done an autopsy in over two years (his WC testimony suggests he had not performed an autopsy since 1958). 

Ferrie may have killed himself because he feared he was about to be violently silenced, although I find the circumstances of his death to be suspicious. I'm open to both possibilities.

The website On the Trail of Delusion is the latest manifestation of denying, distorting, and ignoring evidence and of seeing the emperor's new clothes.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Michael Griffith