VIDEO: Six Thirty Five

[Sandy Larsen]

15 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

16 hours ago, John Butler said:

I don't think anyone takes this seriously except for me.  This is what I see in the films and witness testimonies.  But, as I said few if any believe that.  

Shouldn't that tell you something about your research methods and conclusions?

 

I know what your disrespectful response to John tells me about you.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Does anybody know if Doug Horne believes that somebody hit Kennedy's head with a hammer? Or any other nefarious thing (like "surgery" to the head) prior to the autopsy?

I ask because it surprises me that he thought the body was snatched only to keep it from Texas authorities. I thought it was snatched in order to do nefarious things to it.

 

[Rick McTague]

13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Does anybody know if Doug Horne believes that somebody hit Kennedy's head with a hammer? Or any other nefarious thing (like "surgery" to the head) prior to the autopsy?

I ask because it surprises me that he thought the body was snatched only to keep it from Texas authorities. I thought it was snatched in order to do nefarious things to it.

 

Has anyone tried to correlate the provenance of JFK's body, being moved from the ornate casket on AF1, the journey it took all the way to the start of the official autopsy at 8:00 ET with the actions and story of John Liggett?  I haven't seen  the modification of JFK's body pre-autopsy mapped and coordinated with Liggett's possible involvement.

Thanks

[Michael Crane]

I sure would like to know the journey of the shipping casket from Gawler's.Either the Secret Service picked it up,or maybe the driver from Gawler's possibly Robinson met it at the helicopter in the black ambulance at Bethesda or Walter Reed.

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/19/2022 at 11:10 PM, Michael Crane said:

I sure would like to know the journey of the shipping casket from Gawler's.Either the Secret Service picked it up,or maybe the driver from Gawler's possibly Robinson met it at the helicopter in the black ambulance at Bethesda or Walter Reed.

The shipping casket never went to Gawlers.  It went to Bethesda, or some speculate Walter Reed then Bethesda.  The body left Bethesda in a Mahogony casket from Gawlers, destined for the East room of the White House.

[Michael Crane]

12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The shipping casket never went to Gawlers.  It went to Bethesda, or some speculate Walter Reed then Bethesda.  The body left Bethesda in a Mahogony casket from Gawlers, destined for the East room of the White House.

Ron,I was wondering where it went when it left Gawler's since that is where it was bought.

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:37 AM, Gil Jesus said:

Doug Horne explains the arrival of the President's body at Bethesda.

 

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/six-thirty-five.mp4

Gil, I never said thanks for this link.  I've never seen this particular Dough Horne video.  Very informative.

I never heard about Jackie picking the grey Navy ambulance, meant for LBJ, for the ride to Bethesda.  Which screwed up the Secret Service plans.  Nor had I heard of the Kellerman - Behn Airforce One tapes conversation about three helicopters to transport people, including, Jackie to the White House, and two more helicopters to take the body, Kellerman and other SS to Bethesda.  Separating Jackie and JFK's body.  Last, I don't remember Burkley and General (?) wanting the autopsy done at Walter Reed but being overruled by the SS.

I have read Vince Palamara's suspicions about Behn being involved in the planning of the assassination.  I've never really suspected Kellerman myself of having foreknowledge because of where he was sitting and his testimony about a flurry of shots (not 1 - 2 - 3).  I also remember Vince's thoughts that some SS agents may have been informed in advance of a 'security test" in Dallas.  It seems Kellerman may have come on board with the plot after it became real given his AF-1 conversation with Behn.  He pretty well had to know the body was in the shipping casket if he was to escort it by helicopter to Bethesda. 

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:37 AM, Gil Jesus said:

Doug Horne explains the arrival of the President's body at Bethesda.

 

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/six-thirty-five.mp4

The end of Horne's presentation bugs me.  The part about JFK's body being taken out of the casket on Airforce One.  To prevent Dallas authorities from possibly reclaiming the body.  I think it's more likely to have been done to assure the body was inspected prior to examination by the non forensic pathologists at Bethesda. 

It's been discussed in detail on here and elsewhere convincingly.  There were even pictures somewhere on this world wide web of a portal from the rear of the plane to the baggage compartment where it might have been stored for this purpose.  I initially found this too fantastic to believe.

Joseph McBride noted the Price Exhibit 33 in Warren volume XXI first in Into the Nightmare.  The possibility the casket fought over by the SS and Dr. Rose was empty seemed real.  I also read somewhere the exit through the basement tunnel was explored by the SS on behalf of LBJ.

Jackie supposedly stayed with the body/casket from the ER through ought the confrontation and the ride to AF-1.  

Wherever the body was taken out of the Bronze casket, at some point it was put in the shipping casket and body bag received at Bethesda.  

Did they keep shipping caskets at Parkland?  Or on AF-1?  Was the need for one planned in advance at either location?

Likely not imho.  

The body was more likely transferred from the casket to the cargo hold on the plane (during LBJ's inauguration ceremony?).  With a body bag and the shipping casket waiting at Andrews AFB to transport it by helicopter to Bethesda, maybe Walter Reed first?

Nutty?

Thoughts?  Joseph,  David Lifton?

[Michael Crane]

Damn,looking at the Gawler's First Call Sheet,the shipping casket was not purchased at Gawler's.I was always under the assumption that it was.Back to the dog gone drawing board.

[Richard Price]

4 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Damn,looking at the Gawler's First Call Sheet,the shipping casket was not purchased at Gawler's.I was always under the assumption that it was.Back to the dog gone drawing board.

Michael, officially there was no shipping casket, period.  There were only two caskets, the one ornate casket purchased in Dallas in which JFK's body left the hospital, flew on AF-1 to Washington, was then brought to Bethesda and offloaded at the morgue and then the casket purchased for his body to lie in state at the White House East Room and the Capitol.  There can be no record of where the shipping casket came from as it did not exist to anyone except those that saw it enter the morgue at Bethesda.

[David Andrews]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:29 PM, John Butler said:

But, does that explanation explain the black hearse, the shipping casket, and the body bag?  Were these planned for ahead of time?

 

I'm not trying to exculpate anyone, but is it possible that Walter Reed, Bethesda, and other DC facilities and service branches had standing procedures for handling and transporting the body of a president who died out of town or overseas?  Might these have been in play, to some degree, in the November 22nd emergencies? 

Variances from plan under assassination circumstances would be notable.

I mean, if Eisenhower had had his summit with Khrushchev but his heart gave out in, say, Vienna (a known possibility), how much procedure would have had to be improvised on that day?  Has anybody ever researched SOPs for presidential mortality?

Edited June 6, 2022 by David Andrews

[John Butler]

On 5/17/2022 at 5:39 PM, Michael Crane said:

Maybe,just maybe...JFK was not killed in the kill zone from behind.He advanced too far forward & had to get hit by the back-up team in front.Of course this is just a thought at this point & is not an opinion yet.

I think the real shooting happened in front of the Court Records Building on Houston, the turn into the intersection of Houston and Elm, and in front of the TSBD.  There is a slight indication of shooting on Main Street.  That is not my opinion or thought.  It is what many witnesses said.  

This doesn't preclude later shooting down by the Grassy Knoll.  I think JFK's back brace kept him erect and bobbing around so that it appeared that there was no effect from the shooting and had to be redone by another shooting team.

Danny Arce had a hand radio, as seen in Altgens 6, giving directions to the shooters.  How many other spotters there is unknown.  There could have been one per shooting team.  Chauncy Holt also had a radio commo device.    

[John Butler]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Cohen said:

So every other researcher who has spent years working on this case is wrong, and you, John Butler, have managed to discern hitherto unknown truths about the assassination that nobody else has?

Pretty much.