Interesting account of JFK affair, Gore Vidal

[James DiEugenio]

8 hours ago, Ken Davies said:

Amen, Jim.

Assassinate the man, then his memory, then who cares about his death.

Ken and John, thanks to you.

There is a scene in the classic movie Z that is about this point.  After the military guys have killed the liberal candidate, they see how they have created a problem with his legend.  He has now become a martyr.  So they now say, "Let's knock the halo off his head."

That is what all this is about.  Its a very conscious move by the people who are opposed to what the Kennedys and King stood for.  I mean they paid Sy Hersh a million to do that work for them and they then gave him a publicity tour that was the biggest since Posner's.  That was not a coincidence.

When Oliver and I were on Coast to Coast, a former MSM reporter got on the line, and this is exactly what he started going for, it was the only negative question we got.  He started in with that BS from Double Cross about the 1960 election and the way Kennedy talked about women etc.  In other words a bunch of utter crud but the MSM likes to use this without ever checking it out in advance because it is convenient to them for their purposes, which is to denigrate Kennedy.  It helps cover up their real failures with horse manure from, of all people, the Giancana family.   In other words, people like MIke Chesser and John Newman, no, but lying mobsters like Sam and Chuck Giancana yes.

That is the kind of culture we live in and how desperate the other side is. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[W. Niederhut]

      Focusing on sexual innuendoes and the sexual peccadilloes of Democrats-- and not only JFK -- has been a popular Republican method of character assassination for decades.   It was, certainly, a prominent feature of the Kenneth Starr/Brett Kavanaugh leakage of sexually explicit Whitewater grand jury testimony that permanently tarnished Bill Clinton's presidential reputation.*   And it destroyed Ted Kennedy and Gary Hart's presidential prospects.

     Yet, Donald Trump was relatively unscathed, politically, by his long history of sexual assaults, cavorting with Stormy Daniels, and even the Access Hollywood tape where he bragged about grabbing women by the p*ssy.

      Quite a double standard.

       Former Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert molested teenage boys when he was a wrestling coach, and former Speaker Newt Gingrich was having an affair when he chaired the impeachment of Bill Clinton over the Lewinsky affair.

      The examples are legion.

    * Ironically, Brett Kavanaugh later ruled from the bench that grand jury material from Robert Mueller's investigation of Donald Trump's Russia ties could not be leaked.

Edited November 15, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Chris Bristow]

I entered into this just to get informed about the murder mystery, and the photogrammetric work done on the claims of CT evidence . But I don't know how anyone could study this for very long without attaching some emotion to the event. If you study the Z film you end up watching the headshot over and over and Jackie's horrified face. It can leave you a bit sick. You may also develop a deep level of disgust for the perpetrators and the fact they got away with it.

There seems to be a lot of salacious BS about Kennedy's affairs but I do not believe it is all made up. I'm just going to throw this story out for what it's worth.

In the 1950s my father was a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and spent some of those years on the police beat. In about 1972 he told me that all the reporters and the cops knew that when Kennedy came to town he kept more than one woman a specific downtown hotel. 

My father was not the type of person who spoke emotionally about politics or argued the talking points of either side. He did not state it as if it was a rumor that went around but as a known fact. Of course I'm talking about my own family but believe it was a credible account.

[Cory Santos]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh please with this BS from Gore Vidal.

Vidal was so full of it on JFK it was ridiculous.

He had a falling out with the Kennedys when Bobby Kennedy saw him drunk at a gathering and he was making a pass at a fellow.  RFK had him escorted out.

From that moment, Gore used every piece of rubbish that came down the aisle-or that he could think of--including that BS about the 1960 elections from that novel Double Cross.

Lee R and JFK, I mean please.

If you read the comments, the rubbish continues.  Someone wrote that RFK had an affair with Jackie after JFK died.  Pure David Heymann BS that was exposed by, among others, Lisa Pease.

It really troubles me that some smart and interested people on this forum have a penchant for posting this garbage.  Which besides being false on its face, has nothing at all to do with the Kennedy assassination.  

Jim I post this because I think it is relevant.  Obviously some researchers think his affairs might have been a personal motive for some plotters.   However, I think it is good that if this information is on the net and then posted here, someone like yourself can respond to give the other side.  That way people reading here can gain another perspective about Vidal’s potential motive.   

[Guest]

In 1984, some four years into his first term as the French president,

a group of top political reporters asked François Mitterrand if he had a “natural daughter.”

He responded: “Yes. So what?”

And no one wrote a word about it.

[George Govus]

Vince Palamara has documented that at least some active White House Detail Secret Service claimed revulsion by what they saw as Kennedy's immoral, persistent and reckless personal behavior. Making him in their eyes vulnerable to being blackmailed, and a real national security risk. That's before you even get to him cutting deals with Commies.

 

[George Govus]

4 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

In 1984, some four years into his first term as the French president,

a group of top political reporters asked François Mitterrand if he had a “natural daughter.”

He responded: “Yes. So what?”

And no one wrote a word about it.

The epitome of frankness.

Edited November 15, 2022 by George Govus
pith

[Guest]

Many years later that quote ("Oui. Et alors ?" in French) became his most famous quote

And when Paris Match published a big picture of him with his natural daughter, the whole of France was upside-down...

NOT because of the natural daughter, but because they considered Paris Match to have invaded Mitterand's private life

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Douglas Caddy]

Listen to Professor Douglas Brinkley talk about the history of the environmental movement. including the crucial role of Rose Kennedy, for free on Thursday, November 17, in a replay of his recent presentation before the Progressive Forum in Houston.

Announcement from the Progressive Forum:

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Edited November 15, 2022 by Douglas Caddy

[Joe Bauer]

21 hours ago, George Govus said:

Vince Palamara has documented that at least some active White House Detail Secret Service claimed revulsion by what they saw as Kennedy's immoral, persistent and reckless personal behavior. Making him in their eyes vulnerable to being blackmailed, and a real national security risk. That's before you even get to him cutting deals with Commies.

 

And does anyone seriously think at least some of the Dallas detail SS agents who went to the Cellar Club in the early morning hours of 11/22/1963 went there not to enjoy the sight of gorgeous topless waitresses but to just have a warm glass of milk and play rock/paper/scissors with each other ... and weren't married?

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Many years later that quote ("Oui. Et alors ?" in French) became his most famous quote

And when Paris Match published a big picture of him with his natural daughter, the whole of France was upside-down...

NOT because of the natural daughter, but because they considered Paris Match to have invaded Mitterand's private life

 

If only the U.S. mainstream media, and public, had been similarly circumspect about Ken Starr's inappropriate violation of Bill Clinton's private sex life!

There was a time in American history when the press was far more respectful of Presidential privacy.  That changed in a big way, beginning in about 1988, and went out the window during Ken Starr's Whitewater "investigation" of Bill Clinton's private life.

As for the subject of U.S. Presidential sexual peccadilloes, it's more salacious than some people realize.

President Thomas Jefferson had children with his slave, Sally Hemings, and George Washington was the father of a substantial part of his country.

President Warren Harding referred to his penis as, "Jerry," in his randy love letters.

Eisenhower had an affair with his aide, Kay Summersby, and GHWB cavorted with his aide, Jennifer Fitzgerald.

Nixon was rumored to have had a bromance with Bebe Rebozo.

LBJ called his penis, "Jumbo," and was quite the flasher.

Edited November 15, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[John Cotter]

10 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

If only the U.S. mainstream media, and public, had been similarly circumspect about Ken Starr's inappropriate violation of Bill Clinton's private sex life!

There was a time in American history when the press was far more respectful of Presidential privacy.  That changed in a big way, beginning in about 1988, and went out the window during Ken Starr's Whitewater "investigation" of Bill Clinton's private life.

As for the subject of U.S. Presidential sexual peccadilloes, it's more salacious than some people realize.

President Thomas Jefferson had children with his slave, Sally Hemings, and George Washington was the father of a substantial part of his country.

President Warren Harding referred to his penis as, "Jerry," in his randy love letters.

Eisenhower had an affair with his aide, Kay Summersby, and GHWB cavorted with his aide, Jennifer Fitzgerald.

Nixon was rumored to have had a bromance with Bebe Rebozo.

LBJ called his penis, "Jumbo," and was quite the flasher.

You have the bones of a good song there, William.

[Joe Bauer]

18 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

If only the U.S. mainstream media, and public, had been similarly circumspect about Ken Starr's inappropriate violation of Bill Clinton's private sex life!

There was a time in American history when the press was far more respectful of Presidential privacy.  That changed in a big way, beginning in about 1988, and went out the window during Ken Starr's Whitewater "investigation" of Bill Clinton's private life.

As for the subject of U.S. Presidential sexual peccadilloes, it's more complicated than some people realize.

President Thomas Jefferson had children with his slave, Sally Hemings, and George Washington was the father of a substantial part of his country.

President Warren Harding referred to his penis as, "Jerry," in his randy love letters.

Eisenhower had an affair with his aide, Kay Summersby, and GHWB cavorted with his aide, Jennifer Fitzgerald.

Nixon was rumored to have had a bromance with Bebe Rebozo.

LBJ called his penis, "Jumbo," and was quite the flasher.

Jimmy Carter's greatest White House sin guilt was keeping a framed photo of super model Cheryl Tiegs handy near the Oval Office bathroom door. 

Nixon had the sexual charisma charm of Ed Sullivan. 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Kirk Gallaway]

Jim has always pushed a 60 year  institutional vendetta against the Kennedy's, particularly of the MSM sort, without really articulating why any of that would be necessary if not after Teddy in Chappaquiddick, but certainly after Teddy's unsuccessful bid to unseat a President of his own party in 1980!

 

In the case of Seymour Hersch's scandalous book, many within the MSM attacked Hersch at the time. Remember this was in 1997!

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1997/11/17/reporter-hersh-hit-hard-by-friendly-fire/5522898d-3507-4e44-9507-dcf62900e9a2/

 

 

There is no institutional ideological attempt to besmirch the Kennedy's. JFK simply wasn't that radical, particularly after he was assassinated! The motive is called "money", and the people know there's a great public appetite. It's that simple.

 

 

 It's also called an attempt of freedom of the press. If you have the means, you could sue them but they usually get away with it, and often the powerful simply don't because they don't want to give it public attention with a,lengthy trial, but just hope the attention will soon die down.

 

 

It also ignores the facts. Have any of these Kennedy tabloid scandals done anything but increase the Kennedy mystique? Of all the major political families right now, the Bush's, the Clinton's, haven't they been pretty much destroyed? Do you really think the Democratic Party wouldn't go bonkers for a potential Kennedy Presidency? Of course they would.There's just hasn't been a Kennedy with the right stuff. That's all it is. All the people who make these assumptions that some powers that be are having great success staining the Kennedy name are just completely out of touch with everyday reality.

 

*****

Hmmm, as far as these more modern day political rumors, I believe maybe  half of them.

 

I remember hitch hiking for fun in the early 70's, and a guy in a Cadillac picked me up and gave me a history of powerful people being homosexual that  ended with "I'm sure Nixon and Bebe Rebozzo are more than just friends", before he made a pass at me!

 

But I did hear that Yuri Andropov was a big Dolly Parton fan!

 

heh heh

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

12 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

In the 1950s my father was a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and spent some of those years on the police beat. In about 1972 he told me that all the reporters and the cops knew that when Kennedy came to town he kept more than one woman a specific downtown hotel.

 

With all due respect Chris, what your father told you is hearsay. None of us knows if the reporters and cops around him actually witnessed this story. It could have been a rumor that everybody believed to be true.

I generally don't believe any particular story like the ones floating around Kennedy. On the other hand, studies indicate that affairs are fairly common. I'd be surprised to learn that Kennedy had no affairs.