Fred's Flim-Flam Written by Matt Douthit at Kennedys & King with an Afterword by James DiEugenio- powerful!

[Vince Palamara]

Excellent article. Well written and sourced:

 

Fred's Flim-Flam (kennedysandking.com)

 

[Steve Roe]

16 minutes ago, Vince Palamara said:

Excellent article. Well written and sourced:

 

Fred's Flim-Flam (kennedysandking.com)

 

Oh for goodness sakes. It's a rant, not a review. So many blunders in that article, it's outright embarrassing. 

[Charles Blackmon]

28 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Oh for goodness sakes. It's a rant, not a review. So many blunders in that article, it's outright embarrassing. 

I read the section about the brain and to me it laid out the case in an understandable way. What are the blunders exactly?

[David Von Pein]

56 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

What are the blunders exactly?

Well, here are three (from just a quick glance at Matt Douthit's review / hit piece)....

1.) Fred Litwin never implied that O.P. Wright gave CE399 to SS Agent Richard Johnsen at 7:30 PM. That's absurd. The 7:30 time comes from Johnsen's memo that he wrote after he returned to the White House on 11/22. Johnsen wrote that memo at 7:30. That's the "7:30" that Fred Litwin is referring to in his book. And Bob Frazier would have no doubt seen Johnsen's "7:30 note", which was still stapled to the envelope containing CE399 when Todd delivered the bullet to Frazier.

2.) And Fred is certainly correct when he says that John Connally's account of the shooting generally supports the SBT. And that's mainly because all reasonable people know that John Connally is just about the WORST EYEwitness in Dealey Plaza when it comes to the question of: Did the first shot hit JFK? John B. Connally could not possibly have answered that question knowledgeably....because he never saw JFK during the operative timeframe. Why CTers ignore that basic fact is beyond me.

3.) Then, of course, there's the ridiculous assertion made by Douthit (and other CTers, such as DiEugenio) that Fred Litwin's book ("Oliver Stone's Film-Flam") isn't really a book at all---simply because much (or most) of the contents of the book started out in blog form on Fred's website. But....so what? I'm sure that many books have been published that started out in different non-book forms. But once they're compiled and completed and edited (with sources added), etc., they become books. (Duh.) This repeated "It's not really a book" refrain is nothing but an additional excuse used by conspiracy theorists to trash and disregard the well-sourced contents of Fred's book. In short, it's a pathetic (and totally absurd) complaint.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Steve Roe]

17 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Well, here are two (from just a quick glance at Matt's hit piece)....

1.) Fred Litwin never implied that O.P. Wright gave CE399 to SS Agent Richard Johnsen at 7:30 PM. That's absurd. The 7:30 time comes from Johnsen's memo that he wrote after he returned to the White House on 11/22. Johnsen wrote that memo at 7:30. That's the "7:30" that Fred Litwin is referring to in his book. Matt really blew that one in his book review.

2.) And Fred is certainly correct when he says that John Connally's account of the shooting generally supports the SBT. And that's mainly because all reasonable people know that John Connally is just about the WORST EYEwitness in Dealey Plaza when it comes to the question of: Did the first shot hit JFK? John B. Connally could not possibly have answered that knowledgeably question....because he never saw JFK during the operative timeframe. Why CTers ignore that basic fact is beyond me.

 

Yep David, the 7:30 was a mega-blunder and certainly Connally. 

And of course, Douhit (really DiEugenio), brings up the goofiest conspiracy theory of all, the "INVASION OF THE BRAIN SNATCHERS".

The palmprint lift is very entertaining! These guys have no idea what they are talking about. 

What Douhit and DiEugenio just did, was to embarrass themselves to no end with this silly article (rant). 

Too late, they own it now! 

 

. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Steve Roe
Correct grammar

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Well, here are three (from just a quick glance at Matt Douthit's review / hit piece)....

1.) Fred Litwin never implied that O.P. Wright gave CE399 to SS Agent Richard Johnsen at 7:30 PM. That's absurd. The 7:30 time comes from Johnsen's memo that he wrote after he returned to the White House on 11/22. Johnsen wrote that memo at 7:30. That's the "7:30" that Fred Litwin is referring to in his book. And Bob Frazier would have no doubt seen Johnsen's "7:30 note", which was still stapled to the envelope containing CE399 when Todd delivered the bullet to Frazier.

2.) And Fred is certainly correct when he says that John Connally's account of the shooting generally supports the SBT. And that's mainly because all reasonable people know that John Connally is just about the WORST EYEwitness in Dealey Plaza when it comes to the question of: Did the first shot hit JFK? John B. Connally could not possibly have answered that question knowledgeably....because he never saw JFK during the operative timeframe. Why CTers ignore that basic fact is beyond me.

3.) Then, of course, there's the ridiculous assertion made by Douthit (and other CTers, such as DiEugenio) that Fred Litwin's book ("Oliver Stone's Film-Flam") isn't really a book at all---simply because much (or most) of the contents of the book started out in blog form on Fred's website. But....so what? I'm sure that many books have been published that started out in different non-book forms. But once they're compiled and completed and edited (with sources added), etc., they become books. (Duh.) This repeated "It's not really a book" refrain is nothing but an additional excuse used by conspiracy theorists to trash and disregard the well-sourced contents of Fred's book. In short, it's a pathetic (and totally absurd) complaint.

 

I consider Matt a good friend, but would agree that there are valid criticisms of the article.

Number 2 on your list is not one of them, however. Connally's account does not "generally support" the SBT. That's ludicrous.

1. He repeatedly said he sensed (presumably from sound) that Kennedy was hit before him.

2. He repeatedly said he deferred to the recollections of his wife, who said she saw Kennedy react before her husband was hit.

3. Under tremendous pressure from Johnson, he submitted that perhaps just perhaps he could have been hit by the same bullet as Kennedy, but that it would have to have been the second bullet. (He said this, moreover, when most everyone who knew anything about the case knew the witnesses saw Kennedy react to the first bullet.)

4. After time passed, and enough bs had been stirred into the public's collective memory, people began saying "OK, maybe he was hit by the second bullet. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

5. But Connally wasn't biting. He made crystal clear at the end of his life that he never for one second believed he was hit by the same bullet as Kennedy.  

So, the facts, David. Connally's account can be twisted into supporting the SBT. But they do not "generally support" it--no, just the opposite. They "generally" oppose it, and write it off as garbage. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Connally's account can be twisted into supporting the SBT. But they do not "generally support" it--no, just the opposite. They "generally" oppose it, and write it off as garbage. 

You're dead wrong here, Pat. As I said, JBC was THE WORST eyewitness in DP. He himself (sans his wife) cannot say which shot hit Kennedy. No way. No how. And he's always said he was not hit himself by Shot 1 and he was hit by Shot 2. Perfectly consistent with the SBT.

IMO, 99% of his anti-SBT stance over the years came from his wife and his unwillingness to go against Nellie's account. And, of course, we know via the Z-Film that Nellie herself was certainly not turned in such a way at the proper time to see whether JFK was hit by Shot #1 or not. So she's not really a very good EYEwitness either (with respect to the validity of the SBT).

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Bill Brown]

To me, this is pretty simple. Connally heard the first shot and assumed it hit the President, a reasonable assumption, though incorrect. He knew he himself was not hit by this shot. Therefore he believed,  at least for a time, that they were hit by two different bullets.

[Charles Blackmon]

2 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

 

And of course, Douhit (really DiEugenio), brings up the goofiest conspiracy theory of all, the "INVASION OF THE BRAIN SNATCHERS".

 

 

. 

Thats how you disprove the brain evidence is by laughing at it and comparing it to a fifties sci-fi? O-K but the rest of us prefer using critical thinking.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Charles Blackmon
typo

[Steve Roe]

1 hour ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Thats how you disprove the brain evidence is by laughing at it and comparing it to a fifties sci-fi? O-K but the rest of us prefer using critical thinking.

Charles, the brain was prepared in formalin and weighed one week later. That's critical thinking, not black pajama ninja brain snatchers substituting someone's brain for the President's. Usually, the brain is weighed at the time of the autopsy before formalin prep, in this case it was not.  There's no hocus pocus Bethesda conspirators doing a brain swap-a-roo.  

[Gerry Down]

10 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Charles, the brain was prepared in formalin and weighed one week later. That's critical thinking, not black pajama ninja brain snatchers substituting someone's brain for the President's. Usually, the brain is weighed at the time of the autopsy before formalin prep, in this case it was not.  There's no hocus pocus Bethesda conspirators doing a brain swap-a-roo.  

So the 1500g brain weight we always hear about refers to a brain that was weighed a week after the assassination? I guess it'd be well soaked by then and weigh heavier than a fresh brain.

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

You're dead wrong here, Pat. As I said, JBC was THE WORST eyewitness in DP. He himself (sans his wife) cannot say which shot hit Kennedy. No way. No how. And he's always said he was not hit himself by Shot 1 and he was hit by Shot 2. Perfectly consistent with the SBT.

IMO, 99% of his anti-SBT stance over the years came from his wife and his unwillingness to go against Nellie's account. And, of course, we know via the Z-Film that Nellie herself was certainly not turned in such a way at the proper time to see whether JFK was hit by Shot #1 or not. So she's not really a very good EYEwitness either (with respect to the validity of the SBT).

 

It doesn't matter what you think they could have seen or not seen, David. What matters is what they said. And neither JBC nor Nellie's statements "support" the SBT. You can finesse arguments and assert that their statements do not single-handedly destroy the SBT. That's kosher. But you cannot pretend their statements "generally support" something they insisted did not happen. That is the opposite of support. By way of comparison, to claim their statements "generally support" the SBT would be like saying Chief Justice Warren's statements "generally support" Oswald's innocence. It just isn't true, and you would attack anyone who said it was true. 

So let's set some ground rules. If one is to assert that someone's statements arguing against something do not in fact mean that that something didn't happen, one should say that that person's statements, once held up to the light, are not inconsistent with what they said did not occur...actually occurring. Or something like that.

Let's make another analogy. Your dad gets arrested for shoving your neighbor. He says he didn't do it--that they just talked. But the neighbor insists he did. Your dad then tells the cops something like "unless I had some sort of seizure I am quite sure I didn't shove him." Well, it would be wrong for the policeman to then write up a report which claims "Mr. Von Pein's statements generally support" that he pushed the neighbor. 

His statements did no such thing. They did the opposite.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

To me, this is pretty simple. Connally heard the first shot and assumed it hit the President, a reasonable assumption, though incorrect. He knew he himself was not hit by this shot. Therefore he believed,  at least for a time, that they were hit by two different bullets.

That "time" being the rest of his life. 

Here are Connally's earliest statements. 

From patspeer.com:

(11-22-63 report of CBS News' Walter Cronkite, quoting Connally's aide William Stinson's circa 2:00 PM press conference) (On Connally's response when asked from which direction the shots came) "I don't know. I guess from the back. They got the President, too."

(11-27-63 televised interview with Martin Agronsky, transcript printed in the 11-28-63 New York Times.) ”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly. I knew the President had been hit and I said, “My God, they are going to kill us all.” Then there was a third shot and the President was hit again and we thought then very seriously. I had still retained consciousness but the President had slumped in Mrs. Kennedy's lap and when he was hit the second time she said, or the first time—it all happened in such a brief span--she said “Oh, my God, they have killed my husband—Jack, Jack.” After the third shot, the next thing that occurred—I was conscious--the Secret Service man, of course, the chauffeur, had pulled out of the line--they said, “Get out of here…”

(12-13-63 FBI report on a 12-11 interview, CD188, p. 3-5) “Governor Connally stated “First sense or realization of anything unusual I became conscious of a shot or what sounded like a gunshot. I knew it came from my right rear. I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit. As I turned I realized something was amiss with President Kennedy and then I turned back to my left a little and as I did so I got hit with a bullet in my right shoulder just below the shoulder blade and arm pit about four inches from my right side. This bullet pierced my chest coming out the right side slightly below my right nipple. It entered my right arm above the wrist, passed through and then lodged in my left inner leg just above my knee where the bullet apparently split. I believe I remarked “Oh my God, they are going to kill us all!” Realizing I had been hit I crumpled over to Mrs. Connally and she pulled me over towards her…I was conscious of a third shot and heard it…we were all splattered with what I thought was brain tissue from President Kennedy.” …When Governor Connally was asked about the elapsed time between the first and last shot he remarked “Fast, my God it was fast. It seemed like a split second. Just that quick” and he snapped his fingers three times rapidly to illustrate the time and said “unbelievably quick…Governor Connally felt the shots were fired so fast the assassin had hit him by accident on the second shot.”.

(As quoted in Red Roses from Texas, by Nerin Gun, published February 1964. As Gun has Connally stating there may have been a fourth shot--something he never said elsewhere--the veracity of this quote is in question. Did Gun talk to Connally, or was he paraphrasing what Connally had told others? If anyone knows the source of Gun's quote of Connally, please let me know.) "'You can't say now,' said Governor Connally's wife, turning towards the President as the car rounded the corner from Houston Street into Elm Street, 'that the people of Dallas don't love you, and aren't glad to see you." "No, no-one can say that any more," John Kennedy answered. They were his last words. At that moment, the first bullet hit him. He lifted a hand to his throat. Jacqueline, who was smiling and waving to some people on the other side of the road, turned back towards him, to see what was happening. The chauffeur looked up at the small bridge, trying to see what had caused the noise. Kennedy slumped down in the back of the car, and Jacqueline cried: 'Oh my God! They've killed my husband. Jack . . . Jack!' That was when Governor Connally turned to the right. He was to say later: 'The President had blood on his cheeks. He said nothing. Then a bullet hit me in the shoulder. I knew that the wound was serious. I tried to get up, but collapsed into the arms of my wife. It was then that I heard a third shot, maybe a fourth. I saw that the President had been hit again. I cried out: 'My God, they're going to kill us all.'"

(2-3-64 Associated press article reporting on Connally's comments at the annual Associated Press Texas managing editors meeting) "Texas Gov. John Connally, although seriously wounded by the second shot, was still conscious and saw the third and fatal shot strike President Kennedy, he told newsmen today. 'I saw the effects of the third shot--the shot to the head--and I assumed then there was no hope for him,' Connally said of the President's assassination in Dallas November 22. Connally said when he heard the first shot, he had one thought: 'This is an assassination attempt.'...'Frankly, I thought I had been killed, too,' said Connally, his arm still in a sling from the wounds he received. 'I heard the first shot, but not the second which struck me. There was no pain whatever. It felt like a short jab to the back. I lunged forward, there was blood everywhere, and Nellie (Mrs. Connally) covered me.' Connally said his turning to check on the President after the first shot undoubtedly saved his life. 'I looked back over my right shoulder and could not see the President, so I turned to look over my left shoulder. I never completed that second turn when I got hit. Had I not turned, I have no doubts the bullet would have entered my spine and heart.'"

(4-21-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 4H129-146) “we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don’t recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway…We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested…the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt. So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back. (When asked how long it was between the first shot and his feeling the impact) “A very, very brief span of time…I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took…So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to—I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap…I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open, and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something…I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear…Immediately, I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car…brain tissue….on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else. I immediately, when I was hit, I said, “Oh, no, no, no.” And then I said “My God they are going to kill us all.” (When asked about the timing of the shots) “It was a very brief span of time…so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots…it just couldn’t conceivably have been the first (bullet which struck him) …when I heard the sound of that first shot, that bullet had already reached where I was, or it had reached that far, and after I heard that shot, I had the time to turn to my right, and start to turn to my left before I felt anything…I never heard the second shot, didn’t hear it…I think I heard the first shot and the third shot.”

Edited February 11, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Michaleen Kilroy]

This is where the lone nut theorists turn themselves into the illogical pretzels like they always claim the conspiracy believers do.

Pat Speer is 100% correct. Connally was adamant in getting hit by a separate shot from JFK from the moment he could speak to the public at Parkland to the last. His wife agreed. And the Z-film supports it completely.

The reporter who sees Ruby at Parkland, the witnesses who saw smoke and smelled gunpowder at the knoll, the majority who heard the last two shots come one on top of the other, the only two people who saw LHO carrying the bag who declared emphatically it was too small to carry the Carcano… all wrong.

Calling @Benjamin Cole on the Connallys and the SBT. He’s got the details down on it.

It’s enough for any objective person without an agenda to admit the LN theory could never  be true.

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

So the 1500g brain weight we always hear about refers to a brain that was weighed a week after the assassination? I guess it'd be well soaked by then and weigh heavier than a fresh brain.

I have brought this up repeatedly. For whatever reason (discretion?) they did not weigh the brain at autopsy. The brain they weighed was infused with formalin. This would probably add 15 to 20% in weight to the brain. Assuming JFK had a larger than average brain before he was killed--let's say 1500g (which is not nearly as rare as some would like us to believe)--and that it was missing a third of the right side of the brain when weighed, the expected weight would be over 1400g. 

So it's a lot of smoke about (almost) nothing. If these folks claiming the brain was switched or stolen spent some time reading about brain injuries, they would soon realize that the brain injuries reported in the autopsy report (along with those demonstrated in the HSCA's drawings) were inconsistent with the trajectory of the bullet as purported by both the WC and HSCA. 

Ironically, the brain is the smoking gun that proves conspiracy. I recently obtained a document that no one else had seen or could remember seeing. It was the HSCA's contact report with Dr. Russell Fisher, the leader of the Clark Panel. In it, he admits what the Clark Panel report concealed. He admits he tried to gain access to the brain in 1968 but was told by the Justice Dept. that it was not available, and that he then spoke to an attorney for the Kennedy family (almost certainly Burke Marshall), and was told they had no knowledge of the whereabouts of the brain. He told the HSCA as well that the Clark Panel's examination of the head wounds was "a lot less satisfying" without the brain. 

This was kind of shocking to read because Fisher and his acolytes had long insisted that the brain was unnecessary, and had begun saying so before the HSCA had even begun its own search for the brain. This report tells us why. Fisher had tried to gain access to the brain, and had failed. In 1972, Wecht stirred things up again. So they all got in lockstep to shoot down Wecht because--by golly--they couldn't have Wecht succeed where their hero Fisher had failed. Or something like that. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Pat Speer