Edwin Lopez: Oswald never visited embassies in Mexico City

[Pamela Brown]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

So Pamela.

Which story is true?

The one Hosty gave to the WC? Or the one he shared with you?

I lost all respect for Hosty when he admitted ( chuckling ) that he withheld the truth of his destruction of his FBI office's file on Oswald just one day after Jack Ruby whacked Oswald, in his Warren Commission testimony.

When asked why he didn't tell the WC the "full" truth and "nothing but the truth-so help me God " regarding his agency's destruction of their Oswald file ( mind blowing important evidence ) and violated his oath to do so,

Hosty smugly, blithely remarked ..."They didn't ask me." !!!

They didn't ask you? 

How could they even know what to ask you? The only person who could tell them about your destruction of your agency's Oswald file would be you! Or your boss who ordered it...James Gordon Shanklin.

If the Warren Commission had been told that your agency had purposely destroyed your Oswald file just days after the JFKA it would have blown the investigation into a full blown panic! The entire investigation would have been compromised.

The FBI destroying mind blowing important evidence like their Oswald file would have destroyed the FBI's credibility.

Hosty put his agency and his own standing and retirement position before his oath to tell the WC the "full" truth and "nothing but the truth."

And in so doing cheated the American people the chance to hear and know much more of the truth about Oswald than they were told.

The Warren Commission's mission of finding the full truth was way, WAY more important than the FBI's reasons for destroying their Oswald file...and keeping this truth from them.

Hosty blatantly l*** to the WC in purposely keeping the full truth from them.

And you would think Hosty would have fully honored his WC oath that included the words ... "so help me God" even more so being that he was a Catholic.

But even an oath of full truth telling "to God" took a second place to protecting his job and his employer.

 

 

 

I don't see it as 'either/or' but when.  Initially, Lee was outraged that Hosty knew about Mexico City.  Subsequent to that, Lee may have been doing CYA. 

[David Josephs]

7 hours ago, Stu Wexler said:

C.B. Peck. FBI Agent who investigated Oswald in MEXI. Definitely a lead that needed a follow up.

Yes, I wrote about the Peck reports a while back.

I also want to say that Oswald not being at the Embassies, does not mean he was not in and out of of Mexico that week.  The Luna hotel is a bout 20 minutes south of the Comercio and the embassies.  And since we do not know where he was from the 27th thru the 3rd...  his being there is more than possible.

But the bus rides and evidence related is all made up.  As is the hotel registry and the tourist visa thanks to Gaudet.  And they looked into the one couple they could find - BRILL - and found an interesting and conflicting story there as well.  BILL ALLEN becomes STEVE BRILL

FWIW

 

 

[David Josephs]

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Hoover wrote, if you recall, that he could not trust the CIA anymore because of the snow job they gave him on Mexico City.

This was about six weeks after the assassination.

David Josephs and Greg Parker have raised some interesting questions about the Aussie girls and the McFarlands.

False "story" - As I read this again in a new light, the "story" of him on MX is all bogus...  as opposed to a true story of his being taken in and out to meet "contacts" at the Luna - but I think we need to dig deeper than June Cobb and Mrs. Davis. as sources for this meeting.

As for Bowen...  We see no better example of the WCR deciding what was and wasn't evidence, and who was or was not to be believed.

 

[Larry Hancock]

David, just a thought...given that it was the FBI who deconstructed (demolished would be more accurate) the story that Phillips and the MC station were aggressively promoting in regard to Oswald being recruited and paid inside the Cuban embassy for the assassination (something Phillips even supported in at least two of his later books) I've wondered if that would not have been part of what Hoover was referring to in his remark.

After all, if the FBI had not quickly done its work on that story it would have meant a major crisis decision at the highest levels - and we have good reason to think Phillips at least knew the story was bogus from the beginning (not to mention being almost insane in the level of detail it offered of having Cuban agents talk assassination and present money to Oswald in a public area of the embassy). 

[David Josephs]

@Larry Hancock

There is no doubt there are many interpretations possible from that sentence.

There were actually 2-4 different "ALVARADO" type people from MX claiming to have seen Oswald in various places, in various cars, with various people.

We know ALVARADO was a CIA asset...  And the ball gets rolling the day after Phillips arrives.  I see ALVARADO as a direct DAP asset telling that story as were a number of other "cover" stories (VILLANUEVA) generated to make it appear he was at the embassies and was involved in some plot.

8 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

After all, if the FBI had not quickly done its work on that story it would have meant a major crisis decision at the highest levels

Could you elaborate on this Larry?  I thought the entire thing was taken care of via the CIA and Nicaragua... a CIA memo asks that he be gives something to do in Nicaragua to keep him out of trouble.  But I don't remember seeing the FBI involved in this.

 

63-12-02 ALVARADO BEING DEPORTED DEC 4 TO NIC WITH WHEELOCK docid-32169184.pdf

[Pete Mellor]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

David Josephs and Greg Parker have raised some interesting questions about the Aussie girls and the McFarlands.

Indeed. I contacted Greg via e-mail some time back & he had traced one or both of the Aussie girls, and he said to me that they would not talk, which I find suspect after the passage of time.  He also stated that Dr McFarland had been seconded to work in a hospital in the U.S., prior to the supposed MC trip.  Would love to know more on that!

[David Josephs]

Just now, Pete Mellor said:

Indeed. I contacted Greg via e-mail some time back & he had traced one or both of the Aussie girls, and he said to me that they would not talk, which I find suspect after the passage of time.  He also stated that Dr McFarland had been seconded to work in a hospital in the U.S., prior to the supposed MC trip.  Would love to know more on that!

Despite Bowen/Osborne claiming there were no other English-speaking people on the bus he was on, BALL maintains his line of questioning to establish Bowen was sitting next to "this man".  WCD71 provides a list from HARVEY CASH, LAREDO INS of all those entering MX on Sept 26 showing the McFarland's from Louisiana and no listing for OSWALD or LEE.  If Oswald did enter via a road, record of it does not exist.

In turn, the tourist visa/Gaudet/OCHOA trifecta added more physical evidence to support his being in MX when the CIA says...  yes, the FBI backed the CIA in this charade all the way.

Mr. BALL. Well. you were shown pictures of a man later on by the Federal Bureau of Investigation agent, were you not?
Miss MUMFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And they showed you pictures of Oswald, didn't they; Lee Harvey Oswald?
Miss MUMFORD. No.
Mr. BALL. You didn't ever see a picture of Oswald?
Miss MUMFORD. No.
Mr. BALL. But they showed you pictures of a man, did they not?
Miss MUMFORD. Yes; they showed us two pictures the first time one picture I was fairly certain was the same gentleman. The other picture. whom they said was the same man, I couldn't give that description--I couldn't say definitely that it was him or even the same man. The second time the FBI official showed me a photo was some weeks or months later, and I could make a definite what is the word I want?
Mr. BALL. Identification?
Miss MUMFORD. Identification of that picture.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell the agent?
Miss MUMFORD. Well, that third picture. on the second time he had showed it to me, was, I was certain, the same man.
Mr. BALL. You mean the elderly Englishman?
Miss MUMFORD. The elderly Englishman.
Mr. BALL. That you had seen on the bus?
Miss MUMFORD. Yes.

 

 

[David Josephs]

Despite the FBI placing him on and removing him from up to 3 different bus lines on his trip... the FBI had to renounce this evidence as the forgery it was...  and then concluded down below that Oswald was not on any bus despite having placed him on Flecha Rojas, Frontera and Del Norte...  and as shown below - ANAHUAC as well.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by David Josephs

[Leslie Sharp]

5 hours ago, David Josephs said:

False "story" - As I read this again in a new light, the "story" of him on MX is all bogus...  as opposed to a true story of his being taken in and out to meet "contacts" at the Luna - but I think we need to dig deeper than June Cobb and Mrs. Davis. as sources for this meeting.

As for Bowen...  We see no better example of the WCR deciding what was and wasn't evidence, and who was or was not to be believed.

 

David, have you encountered John Wilson-Hudson, a.k.a. Carlos Juan Wilson-Hudston/John Carlos Wilson-Hudson in context of either Oswald, Ruby, or Bowen?
 

The CIA’s message reads:

 On 26 November 1963, a British journalist named John Wilson, and also known as John Wilson-Hudson, gave information to the American Embassy in London which indicated that an “American gangster-type named Ruby visited Cuba around 1959. Wilson himself was working in Cuba at the time and was jailed by Castro before he was deported.

Assassination researcher Mike Sylvester, in a thorough analysis focused on mob connections and the assassination, published in JFK Lancer in 1993, asserts that at the end of June 1959, Wilson and three Americans were arrested in a suburb of Havana as they planned to carry out a sneak bomb raid on Nicaragua, using three airplanes and a small volunteer attack force. Fidel Castro had nothing to do with the attack plans and ordered Wilson and the other ringleaders arrested; thus, John Wilson was in jail at the time of the Ruby visit.

The message continues...

In prison in Cuba, Wilson says he met an American gangster gambler named Santos who could not return to the USA because there were several indictments outstanding against him. [This is false. There were no indictments.] Instead, he preferred to live in relative luxury in a Cuban prison. While Santos was in prison, Wilson says, Santos was visited frequently by an American gangster type named Ruby. His story is being followed up. Wilson says he had once testified before the Eastland committee of the U.S. Senate sometime in 1959 or 1960.

Writes Kantor on this message: “The next day, according to a heavily doctored memorandum in CIA files, the FBI came up with a preliminary report that the Englishman John Wilson ‘likely be psychopath [sic] We gather he gave this impression when testifying before Eastland Committee in 1959. Both the message on Wilson and the following day’s memorandum were kept secret until mid-1976, when Washington attorney Bernard Fensterwald Jr. flushed it out through the Freedom of Information Act, along with hundreds of other CIA documents relating to the Kennedy assassination dating as far back as 1963. A check of the files of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Internal Security, headed by Senator James O. Eastland of Mississippi, shows that while the Eastland panel explored a long list of hot political areas of Latin America in 1959 and 1960, Wilson does not appear on the witness list under any of the names he used…” 

-see J. Dallas

T. says L.O. is ‘idiot‘

But w be used regardless

Set-up complete 

JW-H

—Lafitte datebook, September 19, 1963

 

 

Considering this entry, it is provocative to underscore that the heavily “doctored” section of the memorandum that Kantor points out (now declassified) deals with Lee Harvey Oswald and his trip through London, England. The once-classified message reads: “No traces on OSWALD in Criminal Records Office. However, traffic index shows that OSWALD arrived in Southampton 9 October 1959 claiming in his landing card he had no fixed address but planned to remain in the U.K. for one week for vacation before going on to ‘some school in Suisse’. However, he left London the next day 10 October by air for Helsinki. There are no records on return from USSR to US He passed through U.K. However, if moving thru in transit only it not necessary fill out landing card and therefore traffic index would not have record.” The remainder of the message deals only with John [Wilson] Hudson. Was there some sort of link being pursued concerning Oswald and Hudson? Or was this simply a routine message dealing with U.K.-related information?] 

it is provocative to underscore that the heavily “doctored” section of the memorandum that Kantor points out (now declassified) deals with Lee Harvey Oswald and his trip through London, England. The once-classified message reads: “No traces on OSWALD in Criminal Records Office. However, traffic index shows that OSWALD arrived in Southampton 9 October 1959 claiming in his landing card he had no fixed address but planned to remain in the U.K. for one week for vacation before going on to ‘some school in Suisse’. However, he left London the next day 10 October by air for Helsinki. There are no records on return from USSR to US He passed through U.K. However, if moving thru in transit only it not necessary fill out landing card and therefore traffic index would not have record.” The remainder of the message deals only with John [Wilson] Hudson. Was there some sort of link being pursued concerning Oswald and Hudson? Or was this simply a routine message dealing with U.K.-related information?] 

            Kantor goes on: “U.S. embassy records in London referred to Wilson only as a self-described ‘free-lance journalist,’ residing in Chile during most of the 1940s and 1950s. Wilson told American embassy officials that he actually had been working for Cuban dictator Batista in the late 1950s and was deported by Castro after a term of imprisonment in 1959… “But a confidential November 28, 1963, memorandum from the office of Richard M. Helms, at that time CIA deputy director for plans, reveals much more about Wilson. The CIA file on him went back to 1951.”

            The confidential November 28, 1963 memorandum by Helms was sent to Sam Papich at the FBI. The file, wrote Kantor, “shows that Wilson [was] well educated at Oxford University [England], had been born in Liverpool, December 29, 1916, had reached Chile on January 28, 1939, from Buenos Aires, and ‘was a contact of one Bert Sucharov, a suspected Soviet agent in Santiago, Chile.’” 
 

of note,
Ruby and John Wilson-Hudson:

October 30, 1963

-QRTS-

Day 1- Ruby - Wilson-H -

Bond . . .

Call Ilse NYC

The significance of the October 30^th entry, made just one day after Lafitte tells us about the “Lancelot Planning” is volatile because there is an inexplicable similarity between it and an entry in one of Jack Ruby's notebooks which Dallas police located on the day Oswald was shot. It reads: "October 29, 1963 -- John Wilson -- bond." The FBI checked Dallas police and sheriff's records to determine if a “John Wilson” had made bond. They also consulted two different private attorneys whose names were John Wilson, both of whom indicated they had not dealt with Ruby. The FBI concluded there was no reason for the notebook entry. 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

David, have you encountered John Wilson-Hudson, a.k.a. Carlos Juan Wilson-Hudston/John Carlos Wilson-Hudson in context of either Oswald, Ruby, or Bowen?

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10048-10063.pdf. 
This is the 2022 version of the CIA memos you mention above.

I had encountered him yet had not given him any specific significance.

The "source information" in the memo from which they get the idea Oswald had gone to London is the first page of his 1959 passport with the stamps on them; while they leave out the arrival on the 8th in Le Havre.

You may be aware  - a Woman named Steenbarger and her son recount the story of FLYING to France with a LEE OSWALD despite our Oswald having taken a ship with MAJOR CHURCH and his wife and 1 other on the passenger list BILLY LORD.  The first stamps on the top of this page are from LE HAVRE.

 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

18 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

On 8/14/2023 at 11:17 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Source:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1406#relPageId=29    pages 25 to 37

18 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

When I spoke with Hosty he said Lee's initial reaction was outrage that Hosty knew about Mexico City.

 

So, according to Hosty, after his 1975 Church Committee reversal, this is what happened in his interrogation of Oswald:

Hosty asked Oswald about his trip to Mexico City.

Oswald became agitated and replied by saying he had never been to Mexico City. That he had once been to Tijuana.

That was under oath and with a good deal of deliberation and getting reminders from his WC testimony.

 

Now, let's add to this further information that he gave Pamela. We get this:

Hosty asked Oswald about his trip to Mexico City.

Oswald became agitated and asked Hosty how he knew about Mexico City. Oswald then said he had never been to Mexico City. That he had once been to Tijuana.

If we are to believe Hosty, Oswald first implicitly admitted going to Mexico City (by asking how Hosty knew about it), and then denied ever going to Mexico City. This makes no sense to me.

 

Here is what I think really happened. It explains everything Hosty has said:

Hosty asked Oswald about his trip to Mexico City.

Having no idea what Hosty was talking about, Oswald looked surprised and annoyed, which Hosty misinterpreted as Oswald wondering how Hosty knew about the trip. Oswald then replied, saying he had never been to Mexico City. That he had once been to Tijuana.

 

I should mention that, in his Church Committee testimony, Hosty commented that he didn't know if "agitated" was the right word to describe Oswald's response.

 

[Leslie Sharp]

39 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10048-10063.pdf. 
This is the 2022 version of the CIA memos you mention above.

I had encountered him yet had not given him any specific significance.

The "source information" in the memo from which they get the idea Oswald had gone to London is the first page of his 1959 passport with the stamps on them; while they leave out the arrival on the 8th in Le Havre.

You may be aware  - a Woman named Steenbarger and her son recount the story of FLYING to France with a LEE OSWALD despite our Oswald having taken a ship with MAJOR CHURCH and his wife and 1 other on the passenger list BILLY LORD.  The first stamps on the top of this page are from LE HAVRE.

 

 

 

I'm particularly interested in the Helsinki leg of the trip which coincided with a global youth fest as I recall?  Are you familiar with that storyline?

What are the odds that Billy Lord graduated a few years before George W. Bush at the same Midland, Texas High School? and a classmate of Lord's is photographed with George de Mohrenschilldt on Travis St. with George and Jeanne's little wire haired terrier.  (as a personal anecdote:  the Travis St. address is in the same block as an apartment occupied by a receptionist at Professional Travel Service located at Two Turtle Creek in the early 1970s; one of our agency contractor's was the wife of de M's buddy Bruce Calder and on at least one occasion he and George came into the 7th floor office to pick Mitzi up for lunch.)

Wilson-Hudson is one of those characters who the government alleged was "unstable," "crazy," etc., yet for some reason, DCI George H. W. Bush took the time to commit to record:

John Wilson-Hudson: To underscore the potential significance of Wilson-Hudson to the investigation into the 1963 assassination of President Kennedy: Memorandum For: Director of Central Intelligence, From: John H. Waller, Inspector General, Subject: Jack Anderson Reference to 28 November 1963 CIA Cable.  “ . . . The dissemination was based on a 27 November 1963 cable from London . . . raising a question as to his [John Wilson-Hudson] reliability . . . “ The undated memo was from the CIA IG to Director of Central Intelligence George Herbert Walker Bush. www.maryferrell.org

 

United States. Congress. House. Select Committee on Assassinations. Investigation Of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: Hearings before the Select Committee on Assassinations of the US House of Representatives, Ninety-Fifth Congress, Second Session. Washington : US Govt. Print. Off., 19781979.

(734) A memorandum from the deputy director of plans of the CIA to the FBI provided additional information about John Wilson Hudson. (670) A “usually reliable source” reported on August 8, 1951, that Carl John Wilson Hudson was a Spanish citizen of British descent residing in Chile and a contact of Bert Sucharov, a suspected Soviet agent in Santi-ago, Chile. (671) Wilson was born in Liverpool, England, on December 29, 1916. (672) After arriving in Chile in 1939, in his capacity of journalist Wilson reportedly be n “a one-man crusade against the British Government.” (673) Anogfiar source described as “usually reliable” and “whose inform-ation was evaluated as “possibly true” reported in 1952 that Wilson was “very probably an intelligence agent.” (674) _

(735) It was also reported by a “usually reliable source” that on June 18, 1959, Carl John Wilson, a British journalist, sent a cable to the British Parliament and the British Trade Union Federation claiming he had confirmed that the U.S. military attachés in the Caribbean were providing military advice to dictators. In this cable, Wilson reportedly protested these actions “in the name of humanity.” (675) Another report from another “usually reliable source” stated that Wilson was involved in a planned attack from Cuba on Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua, during the weekend of June 27–28, 1959. (676) Associated Press reported on July 1, 1959, that the Cuban home of Capt. Paul Hughes was raided, leading to the seizure of:

A large arms cache and air-sea invasion plans and the detention of two other Americans, a British journalist, several Cubans, and nearly 200 would be members of an expeditionary force against the regime of Nicaraguan President Luis Somoza. (677)

The article stated that “the British subject was identified as Carl John Wilson, a freelance journalist who had been in Havana several weeks.” (678)

(736) The committee was unable to locate John Wilson Hudson. In response to the committee’s inquiries, the Metropolitan Police in London, England, contacted unspecified government agencies, but these efforts were unsuccessful. (679) It has been alleged that Hudson is dead. (680) Analysis

(742) It has not been possible to corroborate the allegation that Ruby visited Trafficante at Trescornia. John Wilson Hudson was not located, and Trafficante denied any such meeting, although he did recall an individual fitting Hudson’s description. José Verdacia also recalled a British journalist who was at Trescornia.

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

17 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

And on two occasions, once when Hosty spoke at a Lancer conference and later in my personal exchanges with him, he described that his FBI friends in Mexico City had spoken with him about Oswald being under surveillance when he was there.....

 

 

As I said in my working conspiracy theory, above, a fake blond Oswald and others drove to Mexico City. Part of their job was to create evidence that Oswald had been there with some co-conspirators. For example, to show they had stayed at a hotel.

It might have been the blond Oswald that was under surveillance by Hosty's FBI friends. But I doubt it.... that would have been a highly compartmentalize top secret mission. No way for the FBI to know about it.

Or it could be that Oswald was in Mexico City, but that he had nothing to do with the Cuban and Russian Consulate incidents. And it might have been that Hosty's FBI friends had this Oswald under survellance

Or it could be that the FBI or some of its agents are just saving face by saying they had Oswald under surveillance in Mexico City when in fact they didn't. This is the story I buy.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Sandy:

The problem with Oswald being in Mexico City is that if he went, it is highly doubtful he did it the way that the WR says he did.  Korth says for example, its the wrong passport, not the one the two Aussie girls said they saw.

And the journey back is even worse, I mean its ludicrous.

 

[Pamela Brown]

Sandy, do you have a cite for Agent Hosty saying the subject of Mexico City was 'dropped' after Lee's explosive reaction to Hosty's question?  

Edited August 17, 2023 by Pamela Brown