Morley and Nagle on Mexico City

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, others and I have both written at length about Hosty's remarks on Nov 23, later reported by the SS agent to the HSCA, you will find it in SWHT in some detail and probably with a search here as well.  As with most remarks we have no idea exactly who was being referred to or where it occurred. 

All I can tell you is that even when I provided a copy of the HSCA document describing his remarks as commented on by the SS agent, he simply refused to engage with it, turning exchanges in other directions. 

As to my guesses, I think that the subversives were Cuban exiles engaged in weapons buys in Dallas and that the FBI was monitoring them and observed Oswald in contact with one or more of them , again you will find that discussed in SWHT - most recently David Boylan have speculated on exactly who they might have been in our Wheaton leads work and our recent presentations on the Red Bird leads - I don't want to make it sound like anything brand new although we have much more detail on exactly which activist exiles were traveling from the Miami area to both New Orleans and Dallas now than when I was doing the various editions of SWHT.

[James DiEugenio]

Two heroes of this case, and man do they ask good questions.

IMO, Sprague would have cracked it.

 

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, Tanenbaum has a new book out about the Yablonski case.

Which is what made Sprague a  national figure.

We will try and have Bob on BOR, Sprague has passed on unfortunately.

In that case, through five trials, Sprague unlocked a multi leveled conspiracy that led to the top of the UMW.

He then convicted the man behind it all, Tony Boyle.

This is what the HSCA could have been.

[Paul Brancato]

Jim - remind me - who got Sprague ousted? 

[Pamela Brown]

14 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Last paragraph is sure interesting - Hosty did not want to talk about the subjects he would have known the most about. He is quite sincere about what he was interested in (or perhaps what he was interested in talking to you about?). Do you think that Hosty knew much more than he was telling? You mention contact with subversives. Could you elaborate? What is it that you suspect Hosty may have held back about Oswald’s activity in Dallas re subversives? 

Hosty did not want to talk to me about Lee either. He kept switching the topic to Marina.  I could not understand why at the time.  I do think he knew more than whet he was telling us...

[Pamela Brown]

One thing that concerns me is that we tend to lump "CIA" into one entity.  I don't think that's how it works.  If we are going to make a claim that "CIA" did something we need to be a specific as possible as to just who in "CIA" we think is involved.  Otherwise, it becomes meaningless. Whatever is happening could be an actual assignment within the CIA or it could be.a rogue operation using someone inside CIA, for example.  

 

[Benjamin Cole]

11 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Jim - remind me - who got Sprague ousted? 

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-strange-strange-story-of-governor-connally-s-shirt-coat-and-congressman-henry-b-gonzalez

Paul--

The story of the torpedo job on Richard Sprague (he was Op Mocked) and Gonzalez...defies the imagination. 

Really, fiction pales next to the truth for gripping drama. 

Then Blakey is brought in, to eliminate the CIA as a suspect and pursue the Mob....

 

[Paul Brancato]

17 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-strange-strange-story-of-governor-connally-s-shirt-coat-and-congressman-henry-b-gonzalez

Paul--

The story of the torpedo job on Richard Sprague (he was Op Mocked) and Gonzalez...defies the imagination. 

Really, fiction pales next to the truth for gripping drama. 

Then Blakey is brought in, to eliminate the CIA as a suspect and pursue the Mob....

 

I think I’ve read this years ago, but thanks Ben. I recall thinking why would Gonzalez, someone I thought was super progressive, do this. Now, in the fullness of time, it’s more clear. 

 

[Paul Brancato]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:21 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Last paragraph is sure interesting - Hosty did not want to talk about the subjects he would have known the most about. He is quite sincere about what he was interested in (or perhaps what he was interested in talking to you about?). Do you think that Hosty knew much more than he was telling? You mention contact with subversives. Could you elaborate? What is it that you suspect Hosty may have held back about Oswald’s activity in Dallas re subversives? 

When did you question Hosty? 

[Larry Hancock]

I talked to him in person following his appearance at a Lancer conference several years ago, cannot give  you the exact date from memory, and during at least one telephone call and several email exchanges for at least a  year after that...best guess on the date pf the conference appearance would be the early 2000s but that is just a guess.  I provided him with a copy of the SS service memo about his subversive remarks in person and think I mailed a copy later as well.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I think I’ve read this years ago, but thanks Ben. I recall thinking why would Gonzalez, someone I thought was super progressive, do this. Now, in the fullness of time, it’s more clear. 

 

I see a conspiracy behind every bush...but it sure looks like someone "got to" Gonzalez, and Sprague was Op Mocked at the same time. 

Did any other House committee in the 1970s have its chairman deposed, and its chief counsel driven from his position? 

Only the HSCA? Why is that? 

 

 

[Evan Marshall]

Larry-the picture of Oswald could have also contained someone who shouldn't be seen in his company or perhaps with a background that would create major problems.

[Jean Ceulemans]

28 minutes ago, Evan Marshall said:

Larry-the picture of Oswald could have also contained someone who shouldn't be seen in his company or perhaps with a background that would create major problems.

Gaudet comes to mind, the HSCA didn't really push this IMO

The Latin American Report... who buys that..

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10133-10236.pdf

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10112-10390.pdf

Edited October 15, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Leslie Sharp]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:03 PM, David Josephs said:

FBI looking for traces of OSWALD all thru Nov.  None found and they buried these reports with coded names. (see bottom composite)

ANY evidence he was done there would have been brought out, front and center, but they couldn't do that since he wasn't there... only the legend exists.

On the other hand, we have to give some thought to the Davis/Oswald/Cobb/Hotel Luna connection.  All we have is the word of those I wouldn't believe too easily: Davis and Cobb.  

On Sept 22 - from the Lafitte notebook - it says "OSWALD - MEX CITY GAUDET?"
On Sept 27 there is a note about DAVIS and OSWALD at the LUNA.

Hosty eh.  Real fountain of reliable JFK assassination info is he?

Couple things about that Larry.  The documents related to ODUM showing Marge the MM photos - I believe suggest they were trying to find HIDELL as this CIA report mentions the FBI still not knowing who HIDELL was on the 23rd after meeting with them.

The pdf below comes 4 days after 104-10013-10189 where CIA questions publishing the MM photo at all while mentioning "since Oswald mother has no copy of photos shown her..."  This from ODUM is July 1964.

64-09-28 DISCUSSION RELATED TO ODUM SHOWING MRS OSWALD MYSTERY MAN PHOTOS CROPPED - TWICE - ONCE BEFORE 11-23 docid-32352812.pdf 118.13 kB · 3 downloads

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS,
County of Dallas, ss :

I, Bardwell D. Odum, having first been duly sworn, depose as follows:

I am presently a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, and have been employed in such a capacity since June 15, 1942.

On November 23, 1963, while acting officially in my capacity as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I obtained a photograph of an unknown individual, furnished to the Federal Bureau of Investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency, and proceeded to the Executive Inn, a motel, at Dallas, Texas, where Marina Oswald was staying.

In view of the source of this picture, and, in order to remove all background data which might possibly have disclosed the location where the picture was taken, I trimmed off the background. The straight cuts made were more quickly done than a complete trimming of the silhouette and I considered them as effective for the desired purpose.

I desired to show this photograph to Marina Oswald in an attempt to identify the individual portrayed in the photograph and to determine if he was an associate of Lee Harvey Oswald.

It was raining and almost dark. I went to the door of Marina Oswald's room and knocked, identifying myself. Marguerite Oswald opened the door slightly and, upon being informed that I wished to speak to Marina Oswald, told me that Marina Oswald was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed. Marguerite Oswald did not admit me to the motel room. I told her I desired to show a photograph to Marina Oswald, and Marguerite Oswald again said that Marina was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed due to that fact. I then showed Marguerite Oswald the photograph in question. She looked at it briefly and stated that she had never seen this individual. I then departed the Executive Inn. The conversation with Marguerite Oswald and the exhibition of the photograph took place while I was standing outside the door to the room and Marguerite Oswald was standing inside with the door slightly ajar.

Attached hereto are two photographic copies of the front and back of a photograph.* I have examined these copies and they are exact copies of the photograph of the unknown individual which I showed to Mrs. Marguerite Oswald on November 23, 1963.

Signed this 10th day of July 1964.
(s) Bardwell D. Odum,
BARDWELL D. ODUM.

 

Hoover took the info he got from HOSTY from his I&NS contact JEFF WOOSLEY on Oct 18th and had SA PECK and others look for traces of OSWALD in MX as I think he knew Oswald wasn't there the minute he gets the 10/10 cable.  Anyway, below are the summary reports of not only scores of assets but to the Gobernacion which their asset OCHOA oversees.  OCHOA provides all the MX Oswald evidence. 

At the bottom is the file inventory for the FBI with those 5 reports highlighted.

Oswald at the Cuban or Soviet compounds = Red Herring

 

 

 

 

 

 

As always, thanks for generously sharing your critical research, @David Josephs

Before tackling the fact SA Bard Odum was never called to testify before the WC, is it reasonable to speculate that the 10.18 communication between Odum's buddy SA Hosty and INS Supervisory Clerk Jeff Woosley in Dallas made its way up Woosley's own chain of command within immigration and naturalization, perhaps even to the SW Reg. Commissioner Harlon B. Carter?  This is of particular interest considering the recent realization that Carter was a longtime friend and fellow TX border control comrade of Texas native Col. Jack Conon, Gen. Charles Willoughby's Z-org commander.

For additional historical context, respected and 40-year veteran researcher Alan Kent draws attention to this spiderweb of characters including Canon, most of whom are no doubt recognized by seasoned assassination historians:

. . . CIC (China), a subsidiary of Donovan’s World Commerce Corporation, was the firm that employed mob figure Sonny Fassoulis, at the urging of army colonel (and FBN agent) Garland Williams, to procure arms for Taiwan in the period of private procurement before the Korean War. From 1946 on, Major-General Charles Willoughby . . . used Japan’s dope-dealing yakuza gangs to break up left-wing strikes and demonstrations, just as CIA backed the Corsican Guerinis in Marseille . . . Like Operation Underworld before it, “Operation X,” with FBN agents at its center, operated both within and outside the CIA, and particularly with the military. This arrangement continued. 

      In the late 1950s, US Army Colonel Jack Y. Canon, a veteran of the Willoughby-yakuza operations in Japan, penetrated Castro’s guerrilla operation against Batista in Cuba. . . . Associated with Canon in Cuba was a US Marine reservist, Gerry Patrick Hemming. . . . With Hemming was another Marine reservist, future Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis…Castro appears to have accepted the services of Canon, Hemming, and also Sturgis, because of their ability to procure surplus or allegedly stolen US military supplies for his troops. Hoffa and mob casino operator Norman Rothman both were part of this arms flow, for which in exchange Castro initially selected Sturgis, a Rothman associate, to be his liaison in 1959 with the Havana casinos. . . .

Kent continues,

. . . Without dot-connecting ourselves into oblivion, I think that it is reasonable to see a long stretch of military, intelligence, and organized crime figures whose names we recognize: Willoughby, Canon, McWillie, Trafficante, Ruby, et al. Pierre Lafitte moved comfortably in this world, associating with Lansky associates Amleto Battisti y Lora and Paul Mondolini in Cuba, and Santo Trafficante in Florida and Cuba. 
 

And advancing the research to reveal Willoughby and Canon's roles in November 22:

' . . . As intimated earlier, was the assassination of President Kennedy, set for late November, wrapped up in an ongoing, broad-reaching—possibly international in scope—active operation? We leave that question with the next generation of committed researchers.

Hired Guns

Askins?

—Lafitte datebook, September 12, 1963

 

Askins - Willoughby OK

—Lafitte datebook, October 2, 1963

 

Canon-- S + V?

—Lafitte datebook, September 14 1963

 

Willoughby team – Canon (Z org) D.

—Lafitte datebook, November 21, 1963

 

[SW Reg. INS Commissioner Harlon Carter's comrade]

“Cactus Jack” Canon

 The November 21 entry in the 1963 records of Pierre Lafitte constitutes an “endgame” in his running chronicle of plans to assassinate the president. These authors are convinced that Z Org is the unit long controlled by Col. Joseph (Jack) Young Canon. 

         Described as a taciturn, gun-loving Texan, Canon served under Gen. Charles Willoughby during the US Army occupation of Japan, running a Gestapo-like institution called the “Z Unit.” Canon and his subordinates engaged in some of the same kinds of torturous practices that would later be seen during the United States’ occupation of Iraq. He and Willoughby were busily fighting the Cold War in Southeast Asia at an early stage, and doing so with very little supervision because their commanding officer, General Douglas MacArthur was also slavishly devoted to the anti-communist cause. Although Unit Z was formally dissolved in 1952, with Canon moving on to assignments in the Middle East, including Cairo, “many of its operations continued thereafter, and Canon continued to visit Japan at least until the mid-1950s,” writes historian Teresa Morris-Suzuki. 

         In fact, according to Canon’s deputy, Yeon Jeong, moves were underway to create a centralized national intelligence agency. Jeong stated that sometime shortly before Canon’s departure from Japan in 1952, he and Canon were taken by Charles Willoughby to a meeting with Prime Minister Yoshida. The Prime Minister asked them to make a call on a government official already planning the creation of a new Japanese intelligence agency. Canon, head of the Z Unit met with the official and briefed him about the workings of the US intelligence establishment. Of note, this is within the timeframe that MacArthur’s career ending contact with the Japanese through their embassy in Spain took place. Soon after, Canon’s military superior, Gen. Willoughby was making inroads with Spain’s fascist dictator, Francisco Franco.                     

Willoughby team— Canon (Z org) D.

That men of the egocentric character and intemperance of Gen. Willoughby and Jack Canon would be involved in an operation as spectacular as November 22, 1963 should probably not shock us. Among researchers into the assassination, in addition to chipping away at Charles Willoughby, Dick Russell was the first to glance Canon. In reference to the 1951 kidnapping and subsequent torture of a suspected Soviet spy, Japanese writer Kaji Wataru, Russell wrote: “A mysterious intelligence outfit, based in Okinawa and run by Colonel Jack Y. Canon, was accused of involvement, but hard evidence was lacking.” 

 

[Michaleen Kilroy]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:46 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-strange-strange-story-of-governor-connally-s-shirt-coat-and-congressman-henry-b-gonzalez

Paul--

The story of the torpedo job on Richard Sprague (he was Op Mocked) and Gonzalez...defies the imagination. 

Really, fiction pales next to the truth for gripping drama. 

Then Blakey is brought in, to eliminate the CIA as a suspect and pursue the Mob....

 

It’s a great story, Ben. I’ve read it before but didn’t recall the Gonzalez connection - the same rep who torpedoed Sprague. Wow.

it also reminds me that JFK was unlucky in so many ways in facing the conspirators - the first neck shot making him mute, the back brace essentially making him unable to get down, etc.

In the supposed investigation to follow, he was unlucky in having his brother as AG. A less emotionally tied AG just might have been strong enough - and seen as independent enough - to demand a truly thorough investigation. Instead we have asst AG Katzenbach and his ridiculous lone gunman memo.