Brian Baccus on Ruth Paine

[James DiEugenio]

Greg Parker is a very underrated and relatively unknown researcher from down under.

Doudna went nutty when Parker unveiled this wonderful piece of research.

He tried to attack it, Parker beat it back.

Let me know Jonathan when you find those HSCA and ARRB inquiries.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1632-star-wars-trilogy-at-the-barbers

[Mart Hall]

16 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Max's film leaves the average viewer sympathizing more with 91 year old Ruth Paine.

Interestingly I shared the Max Good documentary with a friend who, let's say, is familiar with interpreting body language. They knew little about the subject of the documentary beforehand and they picked out many scenes where they believed that the body language was contradicting what Ruth Paine was saying. At the end they were even more convinced than myself that Ruth Paine knows more than she is letting on.

[Jonathan Cohen]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Jonathan:

Can you show me any investigation into Ruth and Michael done by the HSCA?

Can you show me where Ruth was even questioned by the HSCA?

Can you show me any interview by the ARRB of Ruth Paine?

Let me know when you find this stuff.  Thanks.

Are you implying the absence of testimony from the Paines to post-Warren Commission official bodies is some indication of their complicity in the crime? Because it’s not …

[Kirk Gallaway]

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This would not have happened without Max Good.

 

https://whowhatwhy.org/hidden-power/key-to-jfk-murder-in-the-hands-of-an-elderly-quaker-woman/

 

What would not have happened? This article? Which is only a rehash of previous things we've already uncovered and said about Ruth Pain?.

There's nothing new here. Do like some others are doing here. Reveal new facts, don't just post something to reinforce  and validate current forum dogma, or ask a series of questions that lead nowhere. .

 

But since you brought up Max's film.

Of course in the film, Max was a spy of sorts. After embedding himself  under RP's auspices, and seeing her and Michael Paine's life in their retirement home. (which I know from experience is rather sobering, and would be all the more so for a younger person.) Max didn't air any of his suspicions of RP until the final interview, when it's obvious Max doesn't have neither the goods to deliver any kind of  knock out punch, or the heart which is actually to his credit. 

 

Though both sides will assail him. The RP-is-guilty faction will say he didn't go for the jugular, when in reality, he didn't have the evidence. And the  RP-is-innocent crowd will assail Max for making the film at all. But it was entertaining for me. I think everybody here is interested in seeing more current film and getting whatever new info they can about Ruth Paine.

 

So the purpose of the movie at least became to inform about the suspicions surrounding  RP and to leave viewers with their own conclusion..

 

But there is quite an irony  in that Max became no less than an undercover spy apprentice to, let's face it, according to Ruth''s detractors, the greatest spy of the 20th and 21st century! She extended this deception for over 60 years! The literal Evil Knievel of spies!

 

There are certain practices that come with a thing called "spy craft". Under the normal practice,,  Ruth having been an accomplice (witting or unwitting) to the the killing of the POTUS, would have spent the rest of her life in seclusion, away from the public eye! She was told to do so by her CIA handlers, who  most likely threatened her life! After all, these are the same people who killed a President, killed LHO and numerous others shortly after the assassination and then years later, when they became more sophisticated,  took down a sitting President from office ( Nixon) for knowing too much. Right, Jim?

 

So according to Ruth's detractors, when asked to retire, Ruth would have none of it, and told her handlers to got to hell! Because she was going to take on all comers who question the findings in the WR,  and then a decade later, anxious to return to the limelight insisted on continuing her spy activities in Nicaragua!, because she saw herself as indispensable to the agency, and no one was going to tell her differently!

 

And she's been taking on all comers ever since, open to every  interview or tv shows for the next 60 years after the assassination and shuts down every tough interviewer including more recently  young whippersnapper Max Good, over 50 years younger than her!

Such an infamously stellar career has to be begrudgingly acknowledged by RP's detractors, if they actually believe it!

 

 

heh heh

 

[Marcus Fuller]

I'm the first to admit I know very little about the Paine's and their involvement or lack thereof with this whole case. But after watching a documentary on her recently (The Assassination and Mrs Paine) I came away with my instincts telling me she was totally full of bs. 

I did contact a couple of 'psychological behaviorists' who specialise in watching footage of someone and then creating a video showing what they noticed for YouTube but they didn't seem as interested when I pointed out the relevance of the 'subject'. I know it would only be anecdotal evidence and maybe interesting if nothing else.

[Steven Kossor]

Unfortunately, in the professions of psychology & psychiatry "for every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert" so I'm confident that the opinions of any 'psychological behaviorists' that may have presented them publicly as such are even less credible "professionals."

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Mart Hall said:

Interestingly I shared the Max Good documentary with a friend who, let's say, is familiar with interpreting body language. They knew little about the subject of the documentary beforehand and they picked out many scenes where they believed that the body language was contradicting what Ruth Paine was saying. At the end they were even more convinced than myself that Ruth Paine knows more than she is letting on.

 

Well first off, Mart I love your tennis shoe epaulets! Very clever!

What I meant by the "average viewer" are people who are agnostic to the JFKA. I think anybody with enough exposure to be on this forum would be likely to not believe RP.

 

Body language experts aside. I don't think she was always truthful. As I recall,with the WC for an example  she seemed to fumble when asked about her neglect at not telling LHO about the higher paying job at the airport, though there's no proof or reason to assume Ruth was privy to salary information. I would explain that she may have just been tired of dutifully taking down Lee's job offers for the last month and been relieved that LHO finally got a job and the whole process was over, and then got uncomfortable when her neglect was made into a cause for suspicion.

I think she doesn't really owe Lee anything.

[James DiEugenio]

Jonathan,

I am implying little or nothing.

What I am saying is pretty simple.

Did the HSCA investigate Ruth and Michael? No.

Did the ARRB call them in for questioning? No.

Then that leaves people like Greg Parker to investigate things like the Hootkins episode, since they did not.

Recall, that incident was before the assassination.

 

[Tony Krome]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:20 PM, Greg Doudna said:

Ruth Paine

Was it you that mentioned you had met her? Would you be tempted to ask her if she was aware that Peggie Ryder lived a few doors away, and that the Randle phone number had belonged to the house next to hers? Be great if we could get those matters cleared up.

[Sandy Larsen]

Well of course Ruth Paine was a CIA asset. Either she was or Linnie Mae Randle was. Because the plotters had to get the patsy into the building where the shooting was planned to take place, and those two women admitted to getting Oswald into the TSBD. This isn't rocket science.

Not only that, but the owner or manager of the building must also be a CIA asset. I'll bet the TSBD was a CIA cover.

 

[Greg Doudna]

15 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Was it you that mentioned you had met her? Would you be tempted to ask her if she was aware that Peggie Ryder lived a few doors away, and that the Randle phone number had belonged to the house next to hers? Be great if we could get those matters cleared up.

Tony, as chance has it, I received a note from Ruth Paine yesterday, only the third written communication I have received from her in 22 years. It was a nice handwritten note in her frail handwriting responding to my mailing her my two papers on the Furniture Mart and the Irving Sport Shop (which I have on my website, https://www.scrollery.com/?page_id=1581). I have never sent her anything before and was unsure whether it would be an intrusion to send this, but did so because my research results so directly involve her house so long ago and I thought possibly could in some small way bring an element of understanding or closure to Marina's long-ago estrangement from Ruth without reconnection in later years. In my cover letter to Ruth I quoted this section toward the end of my Irving Sport Shop paper:

Although Marina had nothing to do with the assassination of President Kennedy, her role in accompanying Lee to get the scope repaired on the rifle used in the assassination, done in secrecy from Ruth Paine and involving an otherwise extraordinary, out-of-character borrowing by Lee and Marina of a car of Michael Paine parked at Ruth’s house without permission, would place her closer to the assassination and the rifle than she wished, perhaps compromising her sympathetic treatment by the American public. That Marina prevaricated in the days following the assassination, on specific matters of fact, both in her own interests and in defense of Lee, is not in the slightest dispute. Marina corrected many, perhaps most, of her early prevarications in the succeeding days and weeks and months under questioning from the Secret Service, FBI, and Warren Commission. But she did not correct this one.

I add a final personal comment, unverified and perhaps unverifiable but it is my belief: the very ongoing lack of correction of this early prevarication concerning the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop trip, of Nov 11, 1963, is the best explanation for why Marina to the present day has declined, for no reason otherwise sensible, to reconnect with Ruth Paine, who cared for her, who did nothing against her, but from whom Marina cut off with no explanation. I believe it may go to this ongoing prevarication, this still-unconfessed truth concerning the Nov 11 trip to the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop which Marina appears intent on taking to her grave.

Ruth's reply, courteously expressed, was that she had read my two papers and that I had not succeeded in convincing her that Lee and Marina took Michael's car on a trip to a store, but she thought it commendable that I was researching and seeking truth. (What she didn't say was some form of "I know your paper is wrong because I was there and reason x, y, z". As for someone 91 years old not changing their mind, I don't mind that.)

As to your question, I am not in frequent or ongoing contact with her and do not feel up to writing to ask the questions you ask, to do that (not that I'm not curious about what you name). I wonder if someone close to Ruth (not me) could with Ruth's permission become a conduit for anyone to email questions, to relay and obtain and communicate back answers if Ruth was willing to do that. 

Speaking of aged living persons from that time, I called John Curington in Texas, the aide to HL Hunt, a couple of weeks ago, now age 96. I suspect he has more to tell which he has not yet told, because it could go into areas of past personal criminal wrongdoing, I don't know that, but I suspect it from some things he has said to me. He has directly said to me his book on HL Hunt with Mitchell Whitington and interview with me was the "light" version of what he knows. Another person than me would see this as a loss to history not to obtain if possible, actually that is how I see it too, but I just don't have the initiative to see if a trip would work to be worthwhile, whether he would tell more than he's said already, how reliable are stories from someone 96 years old, shyness (mine), and increased reluctance on my part to travel by air in recent years, all those reasons mixed together. Curington has become hard of hearing and is now a little difficult to talk with over the phone for that reason.

I'm sorry I'm not up to being more helpful to your question.

[Jean Ceulemans]

3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Tony, as chance has it, I received a note from Ruth Paine yesterday, only the third written communication I have received from her in 22 years. It was a nice handwritten note in her frail handwriting responding to my mailing her my two papers on the Furniture Mart and the Irving Sport Shop (which I have on my website, https://www.scrollery.com/?page_id=1581). I have never sent her anything before and was unsure whether it would be an intrusion to send this, but did so because my research results so directly involve her house so long ago and I thought possibly could in some small way bring an element of understanding or closure to Marina's long-ago estrangement from Ruth without reconnection in later years. In my cover letter to Ruth I quoted this section toward the end of my Irving Sport Shop paper:

Although Marina had nothing to do with the assassination of President Kennedy, her role in accompanying Lee to get the scope repaired on the rifle used in the assassination, done in secrecy from Ruth Paine and involving an otherwise extraordinary, out-of-character borrowing by Lee and Marina of a car of Michael Paine parked at Ruth’s house without permission, would place her closer to the assassination and the rifle than she wished, perhaps compromising her sympathetic treatment by the American public. That Marina prevaricated in the days following the assassination, on specific matters of fact, both in her own interests and in defense of Lee, is not in the slightest dispute. Marina corrected many, perhaps most, of her early prevarications in the succeeding days and weeks and months under questioning from the Secret Service, FBI, and Warren Commission. But she did not correct this one.

I add a final personal comment, unverified and perhaps unverifiable but it is my belief: the very ongoing lack of correction of this early prevarication concerning the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop trip, of Nov 11, 1963, is the best explanation for why Marina to the present day has declined, for no reason otherwise sensible, to reconnect with Ruth Paine, who cared for her, who did nothing against her, but from whom Marina cut off with no explanation. I believe it may go to this ongoing prevarication, this still-unconfessed truth concerning the Nov 11 trip to the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop which Marina appears intent on taking to her grave.

Ruth's reply, courteously expressed, was that she had read my two papers and that I had not succeeded in convincing her that Lee and Marina took Michael's car on a trip to a store, but she thought it commendable that I was researching and seeking truth. (What she didn't say was some form of "I know your paper is wrong because I was there and reason x, y, z". As for someone 91 years old not changing their mind, I don't mind that.)

As to your question, I am not in frequent or ongoing contact with her and do not feel up to writing to ask the questions you ask, to do that (not that I'm not curious about what you name). I wonder if someone close to Ruth (not me) could with Ruth's permission become a conduit for anyone to email questions, to relay and obtain and communicate back answers if Ruth was willing to do that. 

Speaking of aged living persons from that time, I called John Curington in Texas, the aide to HL Hunt, a couple of weeks ago, now age 96. I suspect he has more to tell which he has not yet told, because it could go into areas of past personal criminal wrongdoing, I don't know that, but I suspect it from some things he has said to me. He has directly said to me his book on HL Hunt with Mitchell Whitington and interview with me was the "light" version of what he knows. Another person than me would see this as a loss to history not to obtain if possible, actually that is how I see it too, but I just don't have the initiative to see if a trip would work to be worthwhile, whether he would tell more than he's said already, how reliable are stories from someone 96 years old, shyness (mine), and increased reluctance on my part to travel by air in recent years, all those reasons mixed together. Curington has become hard of hearing and is now a little difficult to talk with over the phone for that reason.

I'm sorry I'm not up to being more helpful to your question.

Greg, I believe you did the right thing.  I have been reading a lot on Ruth lately and I feel she sometimes was simply put in an awkward position by the actions of DPD, FBI  and/or SS. 

As to when she notified authorities on some issues, we can not begin to imagine what life for her must have been in those days.   

Would I be a a little upset when after 4 months they were still asking about curtain rods ?   You bet I would... that should have been cleared on day 1 (that was about a freaking aliby for the accused !).    Not in months 4 or 5....  Or even later, cfr. Hoover's memo. 

Not to mention 3 agencies running an investigation on their own and are competative about it, try keeping those satisfied in such conditions, impossible !    

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Jonathan,

I am implying little or nothing.

What I am saying is pretty simple.

Did the HSCA investigate Ruth and Michael? No.

Did the ARRB call them in for questioning? No.

Then that leaves people like Greg Parker to investigate things like the Hootkins episode, since they did not.

Recall, that incident was before the assassination.

Again, so what? Many people connected to the assassination in one way or another were not "properly" investigated by the authorities. Does that mean they were conspirators? Or even had anything useful to say? Of course it doesn't. So, I don't know what point you are trying to make.

[Jonathan Cohen]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Well of course Ruth Paine was a CIA asset. Either she was or Linnie Mae Randle was. Because the plotters had to get the patsy into the building where the shooting was planned to take place, and those two women admitted to getting Oswald into the TSBD. This isn't rocket science.

Not only that, but the owner or manager of the building must also be a CIA asset. I'll bet the TSBD was a CIA cover.

 

It's a Thanksgiving miracle that some people actually believe this, particularly without a literal shred of proof.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Since the same arguments are repeated over and over, I'll refrain from commenting and just include this link to my series on Max Good for those who haven't seen it:

W. Tracy Parnell: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)