JFK vs the Neocons Pt. 4

[James DiEugenio]

Castro was very happy with the message he got from Kennedy through Daniel.

He was actually kind of stunned and said that Kennedy would now go down in history as the greatest president since Lincoln.

When he got the news of the shooting he was beside himself with grief.  He said three times, this is bad news, this is bad news, this is bad news.

He was right since that was the end of detente.  And except for one short respite with Obama, no one has picked up the baton since.

[Cliff Varnell]

34 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Castro was very happy with the message he got from Kennedy through Daniel.

He was actually kind of stunned and said that Kennedy would now go down in history as the greatest president since Lincoln.

When he got the news of the shooting he was beside himself with grief.  He said three times, this is bad news, this is bad news, this is bad news.

He was right since that was the end of detente.  And except for one short respite with Obama, no one has picked up the baton since.

Biden eases Cuba sanctions

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/florida-playbook/2024/05/29/biden-eases-cuba-sanctions-00160337

 

[Cliff Varnell]

Jim Di : Putin annexed Crimea?   And he's helping those in Donbass.  OMG.  This is why I have CV on ignore. </q>

 

Jim has me on ignore because he's a critic who cannot abide criticism.  What historian disputes the fact that Russia annexed Crimea and enclaves in Donbas?

 

<q>

He's like the NY Times on this. The people who took control of Ukraine in 2014 are the followers of the neo Nazi Bandera.</q>

 

In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary elections the ultra-national Banderite political party -- Svoboda -- received 2.16% of the vote with no seats.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election

 

<q>They murdered scores, if not hundreds of people, in their illegal overthrow.  Their paramilitary bands literally set buildings on fire with innocent civilians inside.  Sometimes they wore helmets with the swastika inscribed on  them.  In the State Department's anti Putin mania, we backed these nutcases.  Many people on the scene, like in Crimea, understood who they were and did not want to be part of a mini Fourth Reich led by idolators of the anti-Semitic  Bandera.  </q>

 

Ukraine's revolution and the far right

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

[Ron Bulman]

Just finished finally reading part four.  I should read all four parts sequentially, taking notes to retain details.  Johnson > Nixon = Rumsfeld Cheney dumping Kissinger.  Then the neocons erupted under Regan, not surprising.  Democrat Jackson schooled 5 of them.  Like watching the news in the 80s, the Strategic Defense Initiative, I. E. Star Wars per Ted Kennedy, a fabricate dome would protect us all.  Which led to the Evil Empire.  Gorbachev, the fall of the USSR, the end of the Cold War and Peace.  The Berlin wall was torn down.

The best version, done live in Berlin, is no longer available in my country.

Help me, help me help me.

Take me, take me, take me the way that I am.

 

[Robert Morrow]

5 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

I agree with your skepticism about Daniel and Castro. Castro, after all, opened his prisons and mental institutions to add to the flow of the Mariel boat lift. He also urged a Soviet nuclear first strike on the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Even Khrushchev thought he was unstable.

I don't have skepticism about Daniel's account of being with Castro when the JFK assassination occurred, and Castro being reportedly dismayed. I think the Kennedy Administration had a two track plan with Castro: either assassinate him or do some behind the scenes reconciliation with him.

I do think if JFK had lived William Atwood wood have been in negociations with Castro for normalization of relations between the USA and Cuba.

John Kennedy attended Princeton Univ first semester of his freshman year in college (fall of 1935) and that is where he met William Atwood, before later JFK got sick, had to withdraw from school before later finishing up at Harvard. Kennedy and Atwood went way back: 28 years back (1935-1963).

William Atwood - https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKattwood.htm

 

Edited August 16 by Robert Morrow

[Kirk Gallaway]

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If anyone thinks the Neocons are doing well, well you did not read tne end of my piece. If that were so then why is BRICS making so much progress? 

?You're equating one political philosophy with economic performance.

 

As far as the U.S. goes , you are living in the best performing post covid economy in the world, whether it fits in with your message or you like it or not. And it has nothing to do with the neocons.

 

No the BRICs have  been going for over 20 years and t are not gaining on the G7 and and losing in the immediate term. But a lot of that has to with the command economies  stifling themselves, but a lot of the current slump is in China, which is demographically collapsing, and now realizes it needs the U.S. much more than the U.S. needs it.  

In personal purchasing power--PPP

 

G7 vs BRICS GDP 2024 | Statista

 

In Neocon 5,  founder Bill Krystol becomes an orphan groveling at the doorstep of MSNBC!

....Oh , wait a minute...........that's already happened! *    heh heh

 

*Of course the conspiracy people  would say it's because  corporate owned MSNBC  likes the neocons. It's actually  purely bottom line. In 2016, they decided they wanted to become the anti Trump network and decided they would be open to  anti Trump people across the spectrum, including old neocons to increase their following. 

 

Again there were hawks in both political parties from the beginning of the post war period, and even more reckless hawks. You remember, JFK got killed.

Do you realize it's much harder for the U.S. to send their kids to war than it's ever been in our lives? 

 

Jim: Also ask yourself, when is the last time Biden had a sit down with Putin? 

 

 I assume most of us want the war to end. We have to draw a line, and the most indisputable line is countries invading other countries. To say the U.S.or Nato "made" Russia invade Ukraine is shirking Russia's responsibilities. Particularly when they completely devastated Ukraine  and they barely have their own  pot to piss in much less to rebuild the damage they've done. But as far as 'drawing  the line" of course that also goes for the U.S. invasion of Iraq 20 years ago.

 

Geopolitically, The biggest thing learned so far is potentially harmful to the balance of power. We know now both Nato and the U.S. would totally devastate Russia in a ground war!  Which makes the bullying act even more insufferable. But where could that knowledge lead?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16 by Kirk Gallaway

[James DiEugenio]

IMO, Gorbachev and Iceland was the most wasted opportunity in the last half century of American/Russian relations. 

And I have to say, even Reagan knew it.

He thought Gorby was the real deal.  Even Thatcher did.

So what does he do?  He calls in first Nixon, and then Kissinger.

They both tell him he is just another apparatchik.  I wish I was joking on this.  But I am not.

In fact, Nixon even told Ron's advisors not to leave him alone in the room with Gorby.  

This is one reason why I giggle  whenever I hear what a foreign policy guru Nixon was.

Gorby was the real deal, and the Iceland agreement was one of the greatest missed opportunities in history for nuclear disarmament. 

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, if you do not recall, Gorby proposed to eliminate all ballistic missiles in ten years.

But the US balked at all SDI being confined to a lab.

Remember, Star Wars?

[Joseph McBride]

I knew early on that SDI was a boondoggle after listening

to none other than Edward Teller saying in a radio interview that it wouldn't work

because, very simply, even if it could stop, say, ten missiles, the Soviets

would send 100, and if even one, two, or three got through, that would trigger the doomsday scenario. And SDI never actually worked. Some people still

don't realize that all it was was a way of funneling vast sums

of taxpayers' money to Reagan's military-industrial complex

supporters in California and elsewhere. Frances Fitzgerald's

book misses this economic point even as she mocks the

scientific flaws of SDI. She traces the crazy concept partly back to

Hitchcock's TORN CURTAIN and a movie in which Ronnie played a Secret Service agent.

Reagan tended to fantasize that he had actually been in events depicted in scenes from old movies;

CBS did a hilarious and disturbing review of such claims. So calling it STAR WARS,

initially a term of derision after the juvenile Lucas movie, was apt.

Edited August 17 by Joseph McBride

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

I knew early on that SDI was a boondoggle after listening

to none other than Edward Teller saying in a radio interview that it wouldn't work

because, very simply, even if it could stop, say, ten missiles, the Soviets

would send 100. And SDI never actually worked. Some people still

don't realize that all it was was a way of funneling vast sums

of taxpayers' money to Reagans' military-industrial complex

supporters in California and elsewhere. Frances Fitzgerald's

book misses this economic point even as she mocks the

scientific flaws of SDI. She traces the crazy concept partly back to

Hitchcock's TORN CURTAIN and a movie in which Ronnie played a Secret Service agent.

Reagan tended to fantasize that he had actually been in events depicted in scenes from old movies;

CBS did a hilarious and disturbing review of such claims. So calling it STAR WARS,

initially a term of derision after the juvenile Lucas movie, was apt.

JM-

I may share your skepticism of Reagan and the-then version of SDI.

But there is no denying that Star Wars-type anti-missile systems, as envisioned by Reagan and others, have evolved into success.

Hezbollah has fired literally thousands of missiles into Israel  in recent months, and most are intercepted. 

Iran fired 300 sophisticated projectiles and drones towards Israel's population centers in April with deadly intent, and all but one intercepted. 

Israel, and possibly Great Britain and the US, are on the cusp of developing laser defensive anti-missile systems. 

This does not mean I subscribe to anti-Semitic crackpot tropes of "Jewish space lasers" pointed at earth. 

[Ron Bulman]

Jim, who influenced Rumsfeld and Cheney?  John Birchers, Goldwater, James Madison, the Koch's or Jackson?

Edited August 17 by Ron Bulman

[Greg Doudna]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Gorby was the real deal, and the Iceland agreement was one of the greatest missed opportunities in history for nuclear disarmament. 

This is so true.

I have wept reading the blow-by-blow of what happened at Reykjavik.

I remember Reagan's campaign speeches. He spoke with such passion and conviction about pledging to negotiate an end to nuclear weapons on earth. I was struck at the time. I didn't agree with his politics on other issues but I thought, damn, could it be? He sounds like he really means it. And according to all accounts of those who knew Reagan closely, he did believe privately what he said publicly in his speeches delivered in plain language that resonated and touched a chord with the American people. The staff ran the government, Reagan worked short hours, but was highly effective in explaining the decisions and policies to the American people.

Then came Reykjavik and Gorbachev said, "Let's do it. Here is a four-stage plan to end nuclear weapons on earth. We can do this. Lets have our staffs get to work writing up verification and timetables and mutual checkpoints. Let's do this."

And Reagan agreed! 

But Reagan's staff were horrified! Walked back Reagan's agreement. I read--I have long since been unable to locate the reference, but I read it--that Haig somewhere explained that Reagan's views on nuclear disarmament were out of step with the policies of the Reagan administration, is how he put it, explaining the walkback. They let Reagan talk the phrases in speeches to get votes and it inspired people, but those were never meant to be taken seriously. 

I love the Pentagon's stated reason for opposition. It wasn't that the deal could not be done or work. That wasn't their objection. No, the Pentagon raised a budget objection: nuclear weapon deterrence of invasion is cheaper than maintaining standing armies. The fiscal responsibility argument for Dr. Strangelove doomsday weapons logic. 

Anyway, Reagan's staff vetoed Reagan's agreement pronto.

But Reagan tried. What's a poor president to do when he can't get his own staff to cooperate? 

Yes, Gorbachev was the real deal.

Imagine if JFK and Gorbachev had been in power at the same time. Imagine the different world that could be.

Human choices ended slavery. Human choices could replace war with courts as means of settling differences and grievances. 

A core charter agreed upon by all sides worldwide doesn't need to be an issue as a starting point: there already is one, already agreed to by practically every nation on earth, one of the greatest documents in human history: the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.

"Last Night I Had the Strangest Dream ..."

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=I+had+the+strangest+dream&t=osx&iax=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Di7M8gLuYqRM&ia=videos 

[James DiEugenio]

Ben:

The iranians gave Israel five hours notice, and then they sent their 99 cent missiles, and five got through.  What they wanted was the radar readings. They now have them.  And I think the USA is a bigger target.

Ron, I really cannot answer that question. But they were both recruited under Nixon. 

Joe that is remarkable, I did not know Teller said that, an unmitigated hawk.

Greg, one of the best posts you have ever made.  And from what I know, its correct.  Reagan got overruled by his staff and the Pentagon.

Edited August 17 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Joe, I looked this up about Teller.

I think you were referring to Bethe.

And thanks for the lead on the Fitzgerald book. Gad, that went on a long time considering it was never credible.

[Joseph McBride]

I vividly remember hearing this from Teller on a radio interview.