Ruth - a typewriter - 15 days

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Husband Mikey as a non graduate of Harvard held a security clearance at Bell Helicopter

Mikey Trivia:

 

Husband Mikey had a rather large trust fund that he dipped into, the equivalent of  $2 .5 M in today's money. He also refused to take the Oath that servicemen and women take when they join the armed forces of the United States. The "apartment" he moved into that when he separated from Ruth was a dump, basically a motel room. The room, as far as I can tell, was never searched. He admitted his "hobby" was going out and listening at meetings  of the far right and, presumably the left. He spent less time at the Paine residence than Lee did during October and November 1963. He thought the Oswald Embassy letter started with "Dear Kathy" and acted surprised when told it was sent to the Russian Embassy.

[Ron Bulman]

19 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

 

Thanks Ron,

 

Did Oswald ever really use Ruth's typewriter?  Her word only.

Not exactly. Marina testified that she saw Lee retype the envelope about 10 times. Marina can't vouch for what he wrote because she didn't read English at that time but it's clear he used Ruth's typewriter for "something". I worked with a typewriter collector to track down the specs and the history of Ruth's typewriter and the font on Oswald's alleged letter seems to be a match of a font that may have been on that typewriter. I also have samples of letters we assume Ruth wrote in the months after Nov. 22 that also seem to use that same font set.

Sister was a CIA Psychologist for years before the assassination.

Yes.

Daddy was OSS WWII, AID, she admitted to CIA later (?).

I am unclear at this time if she denied that he worked for USIS (or USAID) which can be a cover for CIA. They are the "white propaganda" element that was formerly OWI. It was probably OWI (not OSS) that he worked for, part of which got re-assigned to the State Dept. and part of which went to the COI after WW2.

Husband Mikey as a non graduate of Harvard held a security clearance at Bell Helicopter which his step dad invented where he worked with German Dorenberger, imported after WWII  by Allen Dulles via Operation Paperclip (google it)

As far as I know, yes.

Mike's Momma was reportedly BFF with Dulles WWII spy/Lover Mary Bancroft.  Cabot, Lodge...

Yes.

Oswald never lived to see the letter or comment on it. 

Yes, unless he wrote it. He never had an opportunity to comment on it, correct again.

 

I don't know, yet, If he wrote that letter or another letter. I think I've already proven that Ruth Paine's story about the letter's provenance is untrue. I want to learn why she had to create a story around this event. There is something important that is being covered up. They had to essentially accuse all the Detectives that initially showed up at the Oswald residence of being mistaken about their testimonies. They made a floorplan as a WC exhibit that is not an accurate depiction of the home.

 

I was playing devils advocate here.  I thought I read somewhere that someone at least claimed the FBI had tested Ruth's typewriter and the letter had been written on it to the exclusion of all other typewriters.  Kind of like they found the magic, pristine bullet had been fired from the Carcano in their possession, somewhere, at some point in time, not necessarily on 11/22/63 from the TSBD.  Regarding Marina seeing Lee type the envelope, was her testimony not all over the place and not even trusted by the WC staff at the time?  I guess it is conceivable someone, besides Lee, typed the letter on her typewriter and she just promoted the story she was told...  But then that darn David Joseph's has muddied up the original story questioning things like the Post Office date stamp on the envelope, who mailed it from where...

Next thing you know someone might claim Lee never actually ordered the gun much less picked it up.  But I digress from the typewriter like some kind of mockingbird trying to hijack the thread, distract from the subject at hand, and disrupt the search for the truth.  

[Ron Bulman]

19 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Mikey Trivia:

 

Husband Mikey had a rather large trust fund that he dipped into, the equivalent of  $2 .5 M in today's money. He also refused to take the Oath that servicemen and women take when they join the armed forces of the United States. The "apartment" he moved into that when he separated from Ruth was a dump, basically a motel room. The room, as far as I can tell, was never searched. He admitted his "hobby" was going out and listening at meetings  of the far right and, presumably the left. He spent less time at the Paine residence than Lee did during October and November 1963. He thought the Oswald Embassy letter started with "Dear Kathy" and acted surprised when told it was sent to the Russian Embassy.

Maybe you or someone else knows something about this.  Somewhere in the last few months I read it had been discovered that at least part of Mike's time separated from Ruth he stayed in a bedroom at  house which was owned/rented and occupied by a fairly close associate of General Walker.  I need to start writing down sources when I come across something like this, too much info on the assassination in the old cranium.

[Chris Newton]

11 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I was playing devils advocate here.  I thought I read somewhere that someone at least claimed the FBI had tested Ruth's typewriter and the letter had been written on it to the exclusion of all other typewriters. 

I don't know where that claim came from. Here's what I found out about the typewriter: the serial number revealed that it was a 1947 Smith Corona Sterling model, apparently given as a gift to Ruth when she started going to college. I contacted a collector of old and rare typewriters and found font samples but there is no way to guarantee a certain font on a certain typewriter. Two typewriters from that era with consecutive serial numbers could have wildly  different fonts. The FBI did type a few sample pages and sent them to HQ and the FBI 302 report exists for that but the "samples" they took do not. The FBI concluded that the letter and the "samples" came from the same typewriter. If I was really paranoid I guess I could suggest that the "samples" were the letter and since the "samples" are no where to be found then one would find it difficult to disprove. I'm not saying that I just think it's interesting when more "evidence" disappears in FBI custody.

I have recently acquired excellent copies of several letters typed by Ruth to WC Staff just before and after the hearings. I assume they were written on the same typewriter.

 

33 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Regarding Marina seeing Lee type the envelope, was her testimony not all over the place and not even trusted by the WC staff at the time? 

 

Marina was in a very difficult place. I think she held up pretty well, all things considered. If we throw out all Marina's testimony because we think she may have been manipulated and coerced then I don't think it would be honest to keep Ruth Paine's considering the dishonesty we find in there. Marina claims to have never seen the letter before despite the claim by Ruth Paine that it sat out, in the open on her desk secretary in the living room for at least a day and a half.

FBI Agent Hosty recounted a different story about the draft's provenance to the HSCA. A story I assume Ruth told him or Odum during their numerous visits to Irving after the assassination.

[Michael Clark]

35 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

.  I need to start writing down sources when I come across something like this, too much info on the assassination in the old cranium.

Ron, I opened a Research Storage thread in the JFK Research subforum for this purpose. I can quickly grab threads quotes or links and drop them in the reply boxes that I have reserved on that thread. I add, sort and remove stuff on occasion.

Feel free to grab/reserve a bunch of reply boxes on that thread if you want.

 

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 10:56 PM, Ron Bulman said:

...Ruth's...word only.  Sister was a CIA Psychologist for years before the assassination. 

Daddy was OSS WWII, AID, she admitted to CIA later (?).  

Husband Mikey as a non graduate of Harvard held a security clearance at Bell Helicopter which his step dad invented... 

Mike's Momma was reportedly BFF with Dulles WWII spy/Lover Mary Bancroft.  Cabot, Lodge...

Ron,

It's reaching to tag onto family relatives.  Though Ruth Paine's sister worked as a psychologist for the CIA, her sister was also ordered (as are all CIA employees) to never talk about her CIA work. 

So, any inference that Ruth Paine "must have known" what her sister was doing is simply bogus.

Also, Ruth never admitted that her daddy worked for the CIA -- because he didn't.

Also, it's irrelevant that Michael Paine worked for Bell Helicopter, even though this corporation had obvious military ties.

Also, it's utterly ridiculous to point to Ruth Paine's mother-in-laws childhood friend (who later became a mistress of Allen Dulles) as some reaching way to connect Ruth to the CIA.

Totally bogus.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 14, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ron Bulman]

Not really relating to the typewriter but...  Michael Paine independently spending his free time observing but not really participating in (?) activities on the right, General Walker, and left, ACLU, and engaging SMU students politically just seems weird to me, kind of bogus.

[James DiEugenio]

You got that right partner.

 

Especially since he is a trust fund baby for the Forbes and Cabots.

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

RON BULMAN WROTE: Not really relating to the typewriter but...  Michael Paine independently spending his free time observing but not really participating in (?) activities on the right, General Walker, and left, ACLU, and engaging SMU students politically just seems weird to me, kind of bogus.

 

You got that right partner.

Especially since he is a trust fund baby for the Forbes and Cabots.

James,

There's that Probe Magazine nonsense again -- that because the Paines were wealthy, therefore they had to be CIA killers.

You've had 25 years to prove your CIA-did-it case, James.   Just give it up.

Try recalling the words of Ernest Hemingway -- "the rich are different than you and me."

Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 15, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

James,

There's that Probe Magazine nonsense again -- that because the Paines were wealthy, therefore they had to be CIA killers.

You've had 25 years to prove your CIA-did-it case, James.   Just give it up.

Try recalling the words of Ernest Hemingway -- "the rich are different than you and me."

Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo

I have long grown tired of Paul Trejo's conceited fallacy that anyone finding fault with Ruth Paine is doing so because she is rich, and the fault finder is poor and envious.

[James DiEugenio]

Michael:

 

I think you and Ron understand my point.  Michael Paine was benefiting from two trust funds at the time.  In today's money there would be worth around 2.6 million.

And somehow with that kind of loot, he has a desire to check out ACLU meetings, rightwing meetings, and engaging SMU students in debates about Castro?

And he also had a communist visiting his house?  With a clearance from Bell Helicopter?  (Which, btw, he could not recall for the WC what type it was.  Just like he could not recall the date of that oh so interesting phone call.)

To most normal thinking people, this is rather unusual.   I know a couple of millionaires.  They don't do that stuff.

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Michael:

I think you and Ron understand my point.  Michael Paine was benefiting from two trust funds at the time.  In today's money there would be worth around 2.6 million.

And somehow with that kind of loot, he has a desire to check out ACLU meetings, rightwing meetings, and engaging SMU students in debates about Castro?

And he also had a communist visiting his house?  With a clearance from Bell Helicopter?  (Which, btw, he could not recall for the WC what type it was.  Just like he could not recall the date of that oh so interesting phone call.)

To most normal thinking people, this is rather unusual.   I know a couple of millionaires.  They don't do that stuff.

James,

It's likely that the millionaires you know have no curiosity about politics.   

There's nothing in the slightest unusual for a millionaire to take an interest in politics.  Many American Presidents and Senators have been very wealthy.   Normal thinking people see this as commonplace.

Also -- Michael never believed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a COMMUNIST.   Michael's father was a Communist, and Michael knew far more about Marxism than Oswald ever dreamed.

The tell-tale factor about Oswald's naivete was that Real Communists join Parties and follow Orders.   Oswald did not.

In fact, Lee Harvey Oswald told Michael Paine that, "to find out what the Communists want you to do, you have to read between the lines of The Daily Worker articles."

Michael rolled his eyes, but didn't say a word.   What a FAKE this Oswald was.  Just some goof and a dead-beat dad to boot.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 17, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/15/2017 at 8:43 AM, Paul Trejo said:

You've had 25 years to prove your CIA-did-it case, James.   Just give it up.

Paul,

I can prove in a single reasoned statement that the Walker-Did-It theory is wrong:

Had Walker and his followers on the far right been behind the assassination, there would have been no reason for the cover up. The bastards would have been arrested, tried, and convicted. And that would have been the end of it.

There had to have been a very compelling reason for so many people in government to go along with the cover up. Saving Walker's hide wouldn't have fit the bill.

So just give up, toss your silly theory in the trash, and start over.

 

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Paul,

I can prove in a single reasoned statement that the Walker-Did-It theory is wrong:

Had Walker and his followers on the far right been behind the assassination, there would have been no reason for the cover up. The bastards would have been arrested, tried, and convicted. And that would have been the end of it.

There had to have been a very compelling reason for so many people in government to go along with the cover up. Saving Walker's hide wouldn't have fit the bill.

So just give up, toss your silly theory in the trash, and start over.

Sandy, 

You're mistaken.  First, the cover-up was not Walker's idea -- it was the FBI's idea.   Walker didn't want a cover-up.

The FBI insisted on a cover-up in 1963 for the same reason that the US Press never talked about Kennedy's mistresses in the White House -- the people were too naive to understand.

It was unclear in the Cold War exactly how powerful the Minutemen were -- they were Coast to Coast.  Were there enough FBI agents to round them up?   If not, it could be a national crisis like Waco.

Or -- if the US Military had to get involved -- it would not be like today -- the Cold War was raging with Russia.  Russia would have had a field day.

So -- for the USA to save face during the Cold War -- the US Government had to hide the fact that the Dallas Right-Wing and Police Department heads killed JFK.  It was a major scandal.

The JFK plotters said that there were many shooters -- all Communists.

The heads in Washington DC knew that they were all freaking fibbers.   But prosecuting them in public was out of the question.

Also -- Cuba was soon to be small potatoes.  The USA would forget all about Cuba, and move on to Vietnam.  Just kick that can down the road -- for about 75 years.

That was the US Government Cover-up decision -- not the JFK plotters Cover-up decision.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 18, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 5:54 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Michael:

 

I think you and Ron understand my point.  Michael Paine was benefiting from two trust funds at the time.  In today's money there would be worth around 2.6 million.

And somehow with that kind of loot, he has a desire to check out ACLU meetings, rightwing meetings, and engaging SMU students in debates about Castro?

And he also had a communist visiting his house?  With a clearance from Bell Helicopter?  (Which, btw, he could not recall for the WC what type it was.  Just like he could not recall the date of that oh so interesting phone call.)

To most normal thinking people, this is rather unusual.   I know a couple of millionaires.  They don't do that stuff.

Yes, Michael Paine was no wall flower.  He Took Lee Harvey Oswald to a ACLU (left) meeting and he took him to a John Birch Society meeting and/or a General Walker (right) speech I can't remember which at the moment.  The point is Oswald didn't drive.  Michael Paine Took his new found willing acquaintance to these events.  They didn't go watch football or baseball.  Why would Michael do this?.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Ron Bulman