Greg Burnham Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 Greg,What Jack stated most certainly was nonsense and his “scenario” “explains” nothing. Jack stated that “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK, but to the northeast, and standing still like a frozen turkey.” But as anyone can see the film actually shows that Jean Hill is first looking to the north-northwest towards JFK and that she then turns her head from left to right as her boyfriend B.J. Martin approaches her. Those are the facts, no matter how you try and tell us what Jean Hill was thinking. Todd I've really missed arguing with you for the past few years, Todd! Remember the good ol' days on the JFK Forum? Alright, I lied, I haven't missed it at all. Anyway, IMO, Jack was being a little facetious about part of his analysis--the part that you took literally. I still say, either scenario is possible...and one isn't more non-sensical than the other using the same standard that you used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 29, 2010 Author Share Posted April 29, 2010 In keeping with the approx 33 frame theory: If the initial start up frame from Z is lighter than the succeeding frames (this is a proven fact) as I have experienced this with my own B/H 414, would this hold true at another point in the film. Here is an example: http://98.155.2.255:8400/5D8C1/FRAMES.png Frame 1 (the initial start up frame). is lighter than frame 2. When we get to frame 186, there is a definite overall lightening of the frame. Might this actually be a start up frame? Frame 154 is the beginning of the damaged/repair area. Frame 153 + 33 frames = frame 186 Coincidence? chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 29, 2010 Author Share Posted April 29, 2010 Playing devil's advocate here. The only other person I have found, other than naming Betzner, is the girl with both arms up to her head. She has on a blue jacket and brown skirt. She starts out right near the rounded part of the wall at Z133. Push her 33 frames back. I just don't believe her head /hair matches the person in Martin's film. Timing wise, I believe this to be the only other possibility. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 29, 2010 Author Share Posted April 29, 2010 I solved the Betzner mystery and it wasn't much of one. Once again, I have to admit that I was WRONG. That IS NOT Betzner in the Martin film The girl in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall is the person we see in Martin's film. Watch the gif, after Rosemary passes her, she heads under the post toward the street. You can barely see the top of her head going in that direction. Then watch the guy in the suit(on the right) start to lean. My apologies to all. I still believe the timing isn't correct, but I can't prove it with this . Back to tracking Rosemary and counting frames for now. http://98.155.2.255:8400/5D1C9/Master2.gif chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Good luck, Chris. It was a fascinating exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Greg,What Jack stated most certainly was nonsense and his “scenario” “explains” nothing. Jack stated that “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK, but to the northeast, and standing still like a frozen turkey.” But as anyone can see the film actually shows that Jean Hill is first looking to the north-northwest towards JFK and that she then turns her head from left to right as her boyfriend B.J. Martin approaches her. Those are the facts, no matter how you try and tell us what Jean Hill was thinking. Todd I've really missed arguing with you for the past few years, Todd! Remember the good ol' days on the JFK Forum? Alright, I lied, I haven't missed it at all. Anyway, IMO, Jack was being a little facetious about part of his analysis--the part that you took literally. I still say, either scenario is possible...and one isn't more non-sensical than the other using the same standard that you used. Jack’s use of all caps in his “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK “, strongly suggests that he was in no way, shape or form trying to be facetious. And FYI, these aren’t “scenarios” - they’re observations – and rather simple ones at that. Jean Hill either IS or IS NOT looking at JFK in the Zapruder film and I submit that anyone can clearly see that she iIS in those first few Z film frames in which she appears. As for your little imaginary Jean Hill thought process re her supposed tortured decision on whether or not to look at JFK and her boyfriend, you’re clearly ignorant of the fact that Jean Hill is on record as stating she was there to see her boyfriend as well as JFK. So you’ve “really missed arguing with (me) for the past few years”? Wait – by your own admission you lied - you “haven’t missed it at all”. Well, given the caliber of your arguments as seen above I can see why. And guess what? I’ve not missed it either! But unlike you, I don’t have to lie about that. Edited April 30, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Greg,What Jack stated most certainly was nonsense and his “scenario” “explains” nothing. Jack stated that “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK, but to the northeast, and standing still like a frozen turkey.” But as anyone can see the film actually shows that Jean Hill is first looking to the north-northwest towards JFK and that she then turns her head from left to right as her boyfriend B.J. Martin approaches her. Those are the facts, no matter how you try and tell us what Jean Hill was thinking. Todd I've really missed arguing with you for the past few years, Todd! Remember the good ol' days on the JFK Forum? Alright, I lied, I haven't missed it at all. Anyway, IMO, Jack was being a little facetious about part of his analysis--the part that you took literally. I still say, either scenario is possible...and one isn't more non-sensical than the other using the same standard that you used. Jack’s use of all caps in his “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK “, strongly suggests that he was in no way, shape or form trying to be facetious. And FYI, these aren’t “scenarios” - they’re observations – and rather simple ones at that. Jean Hill either IS or IS NOT looking at JFK in the Zapruder film and I submit that anyone can clearly see that she iIS in those first few Z film frames in which she appears. As for your little imaginary Jean Hill thought process re her supposed tortured decision on whether or not to look at JFK and her boyfriend, you’re clearly ignorant of the fact that Jean Hill is on record as stating she was there to see her boyfriend as well as JFK. So you’ve “really missed arguing with (me) for the past few years”? Wait – by your own admission you lied - you “haven’t missed it at all”. Well, given the caliber of your arguments as seen above I can see why. And guess what? I’ve not missed it either! But unlike you, I don’t have to lie about that. finally found your way out of WENDY'S, eh Toddster? Of course you don't have to lie..... rotflmfao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Greg,What Jack stated most certainly was nonsense and his “scenario” “explains” nothing. Jack stated that “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK, but to the northeast, and standing still like a frozen turkey.” But as anyone can see the film actually shows that Jean Hill is first looking to the north-northwest towards JFK and that she then turns her head from left to right as her boyfriend B.J. Martin approaches her. Those are the facts, no matter how you try and tell us what Jean Hill was thinking. Todd I've really missed arguing with you for the past few years, Todd! Remember the good ol' days on the JFK Forum? Alright, I lied, I haven't missed it at all. Anyway, IMO, Jack was being a little facetious about part of his analysis--the part that you took literally. I still say, either scenario is possible...and one isn't more non-sensical than the other using the same standard that you used. Jack’s use of all caps in his “Jean Hill is shown in the Zfilm NOT LOOKING AT JFK “, strongly suggests that he was in no way, shape or form trying to be facetious. And FYI, these aren’t “scenarios” - they’re observations – and rather simple ones at that. Jean Hill either IS or IS NOT looking at JFK in the Zapruder film and I submit that anyone can clearly see that she iIS in those first few Z film frames in which she appears. As for your little imaginary Jean Hill thought process re her supposed tortured decision on whether or not to look at JFK and her boyfriend, you’re clearly ignorant of the fact that Jean Hill is on record as stating she was there to see her boyfriend as well as JFK. So you’ve “really missed arguing with (me) for the past few years”? Wait – by your own admission you lied - you “haven’t missed it at all”. Well, given the caliber of your arguments as seen above I can see why. And guess what? I’ve not missed it either! But unlike you, I don’t have to lie about that. finally found your way out of WENDY'S, eh Toddster? Of course you don't have to lie..... rotflmfao! Ah, Davey, aka Turtle - I wondered how long before you popped up again and had absolutely nothing to say. Not long I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I solved the Betzner mystery and it wasn't much of one.Once again, I have to admit that I was WRONG. That IS NOT Betzner in the Martin film The girl in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall is the person we see in Martin's film. Watch the gif, after Rosemary passes her, she heads under the post toward the street. You can barely see the top of her head going in that direction. Then watch the guy in the suit(on the right) start to lean. My apologies to all. I still believe the timing isn't correct, but I can't prove it with this . Back to tracking Rosemary and counting frames for now. http://98.155.2.255:8400/5D1C9/Master2.gif chris Sounded pretty interesting to me Chris but this slight tweak of frame 323 is enough to convice me something is being hidden. Love the virtual black square painted over the back of his head and from what I understand it is even more noticeable on the 35mm Hollywood prints that maybe one day I'll get to see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Thanks David, Playing devil's advocate once again, let's see if this leads anywhere. The lady in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall, whom I have named as the person in the Martin film, not Betzner. She has a camera. When she gets to the end of her run in Dorman, she heads toward the street and we pick her up in Martin. She also ends up in very close proximation to where Betzner is, in Dorman and Z. Who is she? Do you believe she took a photo at that time? chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/E2624/Blue_Dress.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Thanks David,Playing devil's advocate once again, let's see if this leads anywhere. The lady in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall, whom I have named as the person in the Martin film, not Betzner. She has a camera. When she gets to the end of her run in Dorman, she heads toward the street and we pick her up in Martin. She also ends up in very close proximation to where Betzner is, in Dorman and Z. Who is she? Do you believe she took a photo at that time? chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/E2624/Blue_Dress.png A little confused... in your gif we don't see anyone LEADING Rosemary but following. I thought it was this thread but GMack said the woman with her hands to her head and face is Rosemary's sister and if you look at your frame 65 in the gif you see she does not have a camera. Unless I've got the wrong person... DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 David, Sorry if that was confusing. Forget about the gif. I'm only describing what's in the latest photo collage I provided. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) Thanks David,Playing devil's advocate once again, let's see if this leads anywhere. The lady in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall, whom I have named as the person in the Martin film, not Betzner. She has a camera. When she gets to the end of her run in Dorman, she heads toward the street and we pick her up in Martin. She also ends up in very close proximation to where Betzner is, in Dorman and Z. Who is she? Do you believe she took a photo at that time? chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/E2624/Blue_Dress.png A little confused... in your gif we don't see anyone LEADING Rosemary but following. I thought it was this thread but GMack said the woman with her hands to her head and face is Rosemary's sister and if you look at your frame 65 in the gif you see she does not have a camera. Unless I've got the wrong person... DJ Dorman frame, showing the woman in blue leading Rosemary Willis around the corner. Edited May 1, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Chris There is something wrong here ! The woman in the blue top in Zapruder with her hands up to her eyes, appears to be be wearing a blue top and a brown dress, the woman in Dorman leading Rosemary around the corner,is wearing a blue top and a dark blue dress ? They CANT be the same woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) You're right Robin, They are not the same person. Woman on left leads Rosemary in Dorman. Woman on right matches color outfit with Z woman. Blue top-brown bottoms and red shoes. chris Edited May 1, 2010 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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