David Josephs

So it turns out that our man Josepf Dutkanicz and Vladimir Sloboda - who both defected in the summer after Oswald, 1960, were both Military intelligence.... both ACSI (now where have we seen that before Steve Thomas?) but please don't jump to any conclusions... like Army Intel was somehow involved in getting Oswald to Russia.... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96584#relPageId=3&tab=page

bumping this for Steve.... et al... Seems the ACSI was somewhat involved with at least 2 of the defectors on the list from Otto which included Oswald, Webster and these 2.... That appeared to me a bit too close to home to ignore... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96584#relPageId=3&tab=page

Robert.. I'm with you in a general sense... in a specific sense... this sentence sure comes close... The "point" is that spot from where JFK was definitely shot BEFORE reaching.... and shot solely by OSWALD... which of course has nothing to do with shot ballistics... unless you need to have the shooter in a specific spot. Our intention is not to establish the point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole assassin. Commenting on the delivered assassination events and survey reports of the FBI and Secret Service: Redlich writes one of the most incriminating sentences to date: I should add that the facts which we now have in our possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will present a completely misleading picture.

And most honestly, I would not take ANYTHING the Warren Commission says about Oswald... I doubt we'll ever see John Ely's original notes or reports....

"Harvey and Lee" by John Armstrong will teach you more about the circumstances regarding his life than any other book available... Finished in 2000 there have been a few things learned since... we're working on a single, copy-able thumb drive that contains the entire book, CD-ROM and all the Baylor notebooks... until then, the book may still be available as a pdf online https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/Harvey_And_Lee.pdf I too cannot agree with everything found in that book, yet 95% offers an amazingly detailed look into Oswald's life... DJ

I never said that FRIENDS were related to Quakers... you did. I was trying to get you to see that your limited exposure to the JFK evidence precludes you from coming to a broader conclusion than you do... the FRIENDS incorporated in NYC was to help funnel money and students to the college... Right... (sarcasm) that this trip had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with spy-craft. Sun Tzu - all war is deception Oswald was not coerced into pretending to defect... after REALLY wanting to go to ASC to study philosophy... that is a conclusion you are proposing based on extremely limited JFK exposure... Just go see for yourself - and if you can answer the few questions posed, even better... i.e. Show me the proof Oswald knew he was accepted to the school...

Please don't correct me for things I never stated. As for your interests - they are your interests. My interest in the entire JFK matter is a side issue attached to a greater investigation. I am not and never have been involved with any JFK group. I can claim by 'accident' of geography to having lived next door' (so to speak) to the grave of LHO, and I can also claim to have driven so many times that I have lost count over the spot where JFK got shot. As I passed by I noticed all the tourists on the grassy knoll taking pictures and then returned to the real world. I am NOT a JFK addict. I don't like the man, or his brother and I have no interest in their glorification. I just want to know more about the involvement of people and events that collide with my research project. Please read the threads that you start! ================================================== I post like this to fully explain the thinking and sources... you're looking at one piece of the puzzle and pretending it's not attached to any other part of the same puzzle... doesn't really work that way. Sir, I have and I do. As you've said, your interest in the JFK aspect of this discussion is limited - which is the very reason you seem to be happy coming to conclusions that don't take the rest of the case into consideration. As for "driving over the spot" - I doubt very highly that you know where those spots actually were... that "X" on the road is yet another fairytale like this trip to ASC you seem so fixated upon... as I've been writing now for a few years... The Evidence IS the Conspiracy MH - Point please to the things of yours I've corrected.... for it is most difficult to CORRECT something when the author is only speculating on whether they are facts in the first place. If you are talking Quakers and Unitarians... time to move on... this has nothing to do with the religious aspect of any of this... he never went to ASC for he was never supposed to go - he was part of a military/CIA defector program... Is that concept truly too much to digest? That a COVER STORY was created so it did not look like a Marine was sent to Russia as a spy... You think WEBSTER was a trade show exhibitor for RAND? And then there's DUTKANICZ... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=112143&search=dutkanicz#relPageId=2&tab=page who was so much like Oswald a comparison sheet was done: You've arrived at these two options: 1) Lee Harvey Oswald was confronted by someone who had tremendous threat value to himself. In other words, "you will do as I say, or else." Or else what? Maybe harm to his family members in Texas. 2) Lee Harvey Oswald vanished and someone else took his place And I'm saying we're nowhere near that point in the discussion.... plus, you offer less than nothing in support of your theory... Just as plausible an explanation is "Oswald was pretending to be going to ASC - he was part of a defector program" Mervyn... there were quite a few others at that time.... Why is that angle on this trip so hard for you to accept in lieu of being FORCED into defecting? I truly believe you are forgetting with what we are dealing and making this more about religion than is called for... the entire point of the defector program and this trip was to get Oswald into Russia... period. To gain some insight into what goes on there... I have a few questions What do you suppose the chances of Oswald NOT getting accepted to ASC were? In Southern CA in March 1959 - where did Oswald get the application with the RI Reverend's name on it? The acceptance letter from ASC states the forms he sent were the wrong ones, to redo them with the forms now sent and send a copy to the Rev... except if you look closely, the single application we do have was signed 3/4/59.... how does the paperwork all get redone and resent... and when does Oswald learn he is accepted? For if we continue looking for such an acceptance... we are hard pressed to find one yet if your theory is correct... Oswald being accepted is definitely a prerequisite for clandestine travel as a spy... no? Why is the "Application to ASC" so different and only a small piece of the application sent to RI? or is this simply all we have in evidence related to these forms? From John Armstrong's notebooks we have a response from Ernest Cassara who was the interim director at ASC in the 63-64 school year.... ... the International Association for Religious Freedom... appears more the mover/shaker here.... and I understood there to be some concerns with that org... the IARF... "The International Association for Religious Freedom (IARF) is a charitable organization that works for religious freedom around the world. It was founded in Boston in 1900 and is the oldest international interfaith group."

WCD321 is a 235 page chrono of Oswald starting Sept 1959 from HELMS. (note. He mentions the BYP and the 2 newsletters as proof of pro-Communist views yet the 2 papers he is holding offer opposite views of the situation... the same person would not be reading both of those papers) Anyway, he notes that Oswald mentions going to the UNIVERSITY OF TURKU in Finland... as well as A. Schweitzer as well as visit the countries in between as a tourist... ALL IN 4 MONTHS? And his locations were determined by... the stamps on the passport, not any 1st hand knowledge... (p16) I found a Thesis paper on the Life of A. Schweitzer... which included a list of letters, one with the following description: Letter from Hans Casparis, founder of the Albert Schweitzer College in Churwalden, Switzerland, February 26, 1968. Problem being, the school moved from CHURWALDEN in 1965.... the "FRIENDS" newsletter of Dec 1965 says they are trying to raise funds to move, while all the histories say they moved in Dec 1965... ???? Yet nothing I have yet come across offers the address of this new location... and a look at the town itself shows very little looking like a "larger chateau from which to run the school" I believe, that for us to figure out the significance of the planned all along ASC stopover which was just dropped once he hits England.... and he came to send a Unitarian Reverend in RI his application... Well... the top of the ASC application tells the sender to make 2 copies, etc... one has to wonder where OSWALD gets this application.... while he is still in the MARINES in March 1959... in Southern CA... Where do you suppose that application came from?

MH - p[lease don't take this as any type of attack on the ideas... you just seem so willing to just drop info that doesn't suit you... I'm just as interested in the research and what turns up as anyone... but please don't just accept the surface story on its own merits... that's just not how Angleton worked.... Bjorn is important... he takes the time to recall a semester at ASC (you know anyone else writing about being there?) yet none of the student rolls has him listed... hmmm, who do we know that creates bogus documents as back stories to their covert ops .... "FRIENDS of ASC" is not a Quaker group MH... I posted quite a lot of info as well as links to more info... Quakers are NOT Unitarian by definition but by choice if even. Although raised a Quaker, Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, attended the Unitarian church and was one of the founders of Ithaca's First Unitarian Church. Eramus Darwin Shattuck, a signatory to the Oregon State Constitution, founded the first Unitarian Church in Oregon in 1865 If you look up Unitarian, the word "Quaker" does not appear.... but I know Dulles used the Quakers around the world to help provide cover... was wondering about his grip on the Unitarians.... ==== Re. Schacht is listed as a member as well as a "Friend of the Committee" Iowa appears to be a place where a Judy Cutler lives after attending ASC.... and it also says that the College moves from CHURWALDEN to CORCELLES-sur-CHAVERNAY... yet there does not to be any record of a school there... so I'm still looking... There would be very little reason for our Oswald to be going to ASC - a liberal arts and music school catering to all students from all countries including Socialist and Communist.... I find it impossible that the FRIENDS of ASC and the other support... Do you have any info in the new location in 1965/66?

The person who went on that ship was not the real LHO who was discharged in March 59. The real Oswald stayed in the USA and was seen in Dallas and Miami on numerous occasions. Whether this defector was KGB coming back, or real CIA trying to get in.... I simply don’t see how our man Oswald is not fully aware of his role and expectations... Read the letters he wrote to Robert.... in order... the change from never leaving to got to get out is drastic....

Not doubting you MH... just that how hits work.... you think there were 115000 ads and diff mentions of this school? The school that anyone could find opening a paper was hidden from the Swiss police? You don’t really think that, right? And what does Ozzie have to do with Unitarians? Nothing... he was a false defector doing his best spy imitation on the way over.... You honestly think this was a real spur of the moment decision? No way. So why is it so strange to create a plausible story despite how history treats it... how we come to conclusions about it... if he flew straight to Helsinki then got a quick visa and was in... kinda obvious, no?

Btw, every link to newspaper archives will count as a hit.... I doubt there were more than 50 unique announcements or ads

Why does it take 2 months for them to find the place if every newspaper has an ad for it? Why does Bjorn’s name not appear on the student lists despite his recounting his time there? Can this simply be the flimsy cover story for his part in the defector program... he was on the way to school and decided to defect, spur if the moment like....

Still don’t see how Oswald is even aware of this man and that school.... without some association to the “Friendsl https://firstunitarianprov.org/about-us/our-history/history-first-unitarian/ The ministry of the Rev. Dr. Robert H. Schacht (1931–68) was among the most significant in the history of the church. A long-time admirer of Albert Schweitzer, Schacht himself had a reputation as a warm, kind individual committed to humanitarian, civic, and social issues. He helped found the World Affairs Council of Providence and the Rhode Island State Council of Churches (from which First Unitarian resigned in 1973 when the RISCC charter was revised to grant voting rights only to churches that embraced a Trinitarian theology). In response to the diverse ethnic character of the nearby Fox Point neighborhood, the church sponsored an interracial Boy Scout troop for many years. Dr. Schacht’s long friendship with the Rev. Arthur E. Wilson of Beneficent Congregational Church and Rabbi William G. Braude of Temple Beth El fostered a long and productive interdenominational relationship among the three institutions unparalleled before or since. Substantial steps in the continuing modernization of the church occurred in 1953. The name was officially changed to First Unitarian Church of Providence; the Church and the Benevolent Society, previously independent organizations, were merged; and the prudential committee form of governance was instituted. The church school expanded considerably during the 1950s. Signing the covenant as a requirement for membership was eliminated in 1965. Beginning in 1953, the church hired a series of assistant ministers; Dr. Schacht was instrumental in bringing to the church the Rev. William Jones, then one of the denomination’s few African-American ministers. In 1955 the church purchased the property east of the Parish House in order to construct a new religious education wing, with classrooms, an office, and the Sharpe Memorial Chapel. In 1966, the Meeting House was again restored, for its 150th anniversary. Within a year, lightning struck the steeple; the ensuing fire and the water to extinguish it caused extensive damage to the sanctuary. Rebuilding efforts began immediately, and the Meeting House was quickly re-restored to the condition seen today. Older members of our congregation still fondly recall Dr. Schacht, who continued to attend the church until his death in 1978. His two sons are still members of the congregation.

Is the pastor on the USA “Friends of Albert Schweitzer College” LIST in NYC? Still does not explain how he was aware of the school in the first place... And wasn’t Dulles involved with 1st Unitarian ?

Considering I finally learned the names of the men at Odio with Oswald, which corroborates an Army Intel report also confirming Oswald traveling to and being in Dallas that entire week... And basically icing it for the FBI covering for their guy after the CIA STARTS THAT SNOWBALL down the mountain... new stuff has been in my favor this week... There May be yet another POV from which to approach these “facts”... but I’m not ready to lay it all out yet... .... the letters from his mom are a key... there are no letters TO Oswald from his mom in evidence despite her sending almost weekly... he keeps everything but not letters from mom? Yes, it’s a Harvey and Lee thing... but let’s see what you have first

Bjorn writes of attending yet he is not on the student list...

lol... like the words uttered by cosa nostra members.... CIA KGB lie for a living... ALL OF WAR IS DECEPTION.... - Sun Tzu So no Tommy, it would take a bit more corroboration for me to accept it... but then again having read some new things... I am 100% confident that Oswald was at Odio and in Dallas at the time... but if LEONOV told me... maybe I'd buy it...

please provide proof of this PT... the CIA saying so is not proof

Tommy - that image is one I did many, many years ago with the writing spelled out... I've been posting this for years... As for KOSTIKOV... you will find it initially mentioned by the Russians... if indeed these transcripts are even FROM those locations... it is reasonable to assume this, yet we must take the CIA's word for it... and THAT is why I don't see this as a KGB/USSR thing. What doesn't ring true is that fact that Azcue did not even try to recruit this disgruntled American... which was his JOB.... Using the recent release we find a great description of what was SOP... And this is usually what trips up falsified evidence... the activities at the time do not support a real life situation... I am actually with you on the fact there are MANY more Soviet moles in the USA then vice versa... that something of this significance would not be unknown to the KGB or their resources... It's just that between the US Military and the PERMINDEX nexus you have more than enough potential suspects... I suggest you read Golitsyn's books to understand the difference between us and the KGB.... their entire purpose is disinformation leading to chaos and division... (All of war is deception)... The CIA on the other hand was all about control and trying to learn more about Russia - so they were and are much more vulnerable... Finally...were you aware of how much KOSTIKOV looks like Oswald?

The FBI determined that Oswald was on NONE of the buses.... But then they determine he took ANAUAC from Monterrey So PT... if he was either not on any bius... or is put on ANAHUAC... The Aussies and McFaralnd's are lying while Osborne isn't? As they put him on either Flecha Rojas, Frontera or del Norte Miss MUMFORD. As far as I can remember, it was a bus company called Transporter del Norte. Mr. BALL. And did you buy the bus ticket in Laredo at the Trailways bus depot? Mr. BALL. Didn't you leave the bus depot at Laredo on September 25th, about 10 o'clock in the morning, or was it September 26? Miss MUMFORD. September 26. Now, hold on. We had one day in Monterrey and one night in Monterrey. We left Monterrey, I know, on the night of September 26 at 7:30 p.m. Mr. BALL. And what was the company that operated that bus, do you know? Miss MUMFORD. That was also Transporter del Norte. "Commission believes that his denial cannot be credited" On CE2121 p32 we are treated to the Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City portion of the trip... This is now MAY 1964... The FBI has already concluded that he was not on any bus, and that he took ANAHUAC from Monterrey... yet now he doesn't stop in Monterrey and he's NOT on del Norte with the Aussie and McFarland's... it says he took FRONTERA for the entire 750 mile trip... On CE2195 we get yet another story... that makes much more sense given what we know about the reality of this trip... The report concludes that BOWEN/OSBORNE was on the RED ARROW (Flecha Rojas) bus... but as I showed above, the other 2/3 of this party claim to be on del Norte... Oswald was not on any of these buses... and that they claim to see his 1959 passport "with all the stamps" is as truthful as Bledsoe on the bus... Does anyone think that THIS "Osborne" is BOWEN?

Perfect... thanks for clearing that up for me Mervyn. I smell MI-6/5... with Philby a significant player... do you see any connection there? Cui bono? Are we aware if British Military Intelligence was also running a "defector" program?

The advantages of being friends with John Armstrong... that's from his notebooks at Baylor.... For those who can't get to the Archives... the notebooks include copies of docs not available anywhere else... DJ

ok Tom... thought you'd treat me to some interesting word puzzles related to the college.... The timing of the alternate Oswald getting out of the Marines in March 1959... and the application from March 59 seems a bit too coincidental for me We are to remember that the passport book with all these travel stamps was LEE's.... When he lands in La Harve, etc.... these photos are taken weeks apart