Nick Bartetzko

Thanks, that’s what I thought. It remains an intriguing possibility…

For clarification, there is a cable attached to the top of the elevator and another to the bottom? As to the cables, they were moving which might mean from side to side rather than down with the elevator?

Could you elaborate please. A utility belt would attach to what?

I might agree with you on that, but I mentioned it because Hemmings mentioned it and we still don’t have a reasonable answer on how the two 6th floor occupants escaped. It seems to me these possibilities are worth discussing, especially because I suspect GPH may have been involved or had knowledge of the assassination.

The reference to page 47 is interesting as it casts doubt on Gerry Hemming’s mention of using a rope under the elevator to descend. I would think a dangling rope might warrant a comment by either Truly or Baker. The other point is there were two men on the 6th floor. One was seen at the back of the building. So it appears they did not stay together and went their separate ways. It would be an interesting and intensive project to evaluate all of Hemming’s statements over the years and try and separate fact from fiction.

Ben, Gerry Hemming liked to tell stories and at least this one appears plausible. It is a better possibility …imo…. than loosening floorboards and crawling onto the top of an elevator. Hemming also mentioned the importance of controlling the high ground, so this fits with that criteria. As to the ropes, it’s a good question and I have no idea. No one would ever be looking for it and even if it were found, what conclusion would someone likely draw. I don’t know as to ladders, foot holds or hand holds that could have been used to get to the basement. IIRC, there are a couple of witnesses that witnessed an individual exiting the rear dock area. I recall the interesting phone call of a Dallas resident Velma to a radio talk show describing that.

Some years ago I believe Gerry Hemming mentioned the TSBD was entered around 3:00 am and the individuals..two likely….remained on the 7th floor and then descended to the 6th floor. After the shooting, they went back up to the 7th and did indeed use ropes and go down the elevator shaft. This ties in with no one hearing an individual descend the stairs and a brief electrical outage in the building. This is from memory. I just don’t have the time or the inclination to verify where/when it was originally posted.

That’s Robert Steuart? The guy who wanted to talk in the early 90s, but wouldn’t and uttered..they’d know… ?? I’ve often wondered if someone had maintained contact with him if he would have eventually come around. Was not one of the pics taken at Parkland? The comparison photo.

Thanks, James. Just wanted to make sure. Donation sent for $50. i’ve been a member here since 2005 and I’d like to keep the best JFK site going for as long as possible. Nick

Count me in for $50 a year. Pls give me a link where you want my $50 to go. Nick

I’ve been a member here for many years…just don’t post anymore. Count me in for a monthly donation, but I’d prefer to donate a lump sum each year. I made a donation to James a year or two ago, but I never received a confirmation and have no idea where the money ended up.. Nick

As to a second rifle, recall ATF agent Frank Ellsworth’s comments about a rifle being found on the 4th or 5th floor. In addition, I’ve seen a brief video clip of someone holding a rifle near some boxes and that might be the second rifle. This was not near a window, rather a view toward the inside of the building. It’s been years and I have no idea who shot that video.

Jim, Its been years since I've looked at the Foster case and my recollection of the case is not the best. Im not wanting to derail things too far, but can you answer a couple of questions for me. 1) Did anyone do any investigation about identifying the rust colored 80s Honda with Arkansas plates that was seen in the parking lot by witness Patrick Knowlton? It must have been extremely burdensome to try and run all those plates in such a large state as Arkansas 2) What is your opinion of former US Attorney Miguel Rodriquez credibility? It appears he was quite upset about the investigations and later went to California to where, last I recall, he was in the US Attorneys office in Sacramento. Since these were official investigations into the Foster case, I have to conclude they were as accurate as the official investigations conducted by the in the JFK case Nick

Hi Larry, Unfortunately, I don't have my copy any more, I gave away most of my books on the assassination a few years ago to budding researchers. I do recall that O'Toole did have some odd encounters with the people he tracked down (R.D. Lewis sticks out in my memory), but I can't recall much about Hill. The book is certainly an interesting read whether you believe the voice analysis stuff The index shows Hills name repeatedly. It's a bit late for me to read all the pages. If you want me to do so, just let me know Nick

I have only a vague recollection of this and could not find anything on the forum via a search. Quite some time ago, I believe Jack White mentioned that Carolyn Arnold was still working in the Dallas area and had a different last name. When she retired, she said she would reveal more details about her seeing LHO in the lunch room between 1215 - 1225pm. IIRC, Arnold has been interviewed a number of times on this subject. Does anybody recall Jack White's comments and does anyone know the whereabouts of Caroyn Arnold...or is my memory off on this? Nick

The beauty of the JFK investigation is that some folks never let facts get in the way of their opinions. The coverage on this has been abysmal. Oswald went to the Soviet Union...he was a communist....he left his wedding ring....so therefore he did it. What a sad commentary on "historical truth"

Robert, Pat Speer is well aware of Nurse Bell's remarks before the ARRB but dismisses them as vagaries of a faded memory. It's too bad Pat is unable to apply that same reasoning to his own analysis of Carrico and others. Pat knows, the tremendous pressure Perry and other Dallas personnel were under to conform their memories to the official version. The worst offender may be Dr. Jenkins,who saw oozing cerebellum on Nov 22 and wrote about it on that day, but saw only cerebellar tissue after visiting the National Archives in 1988. Baxter at first said occipital bones were missing. That changed quickly. And of course Perry may be the most hardened of them all. See his letters to Brad Parker in First on the Scene. The earliest recollections from Dallas are the best, and after pressure to change rendered, IMO, the later comments worthless. Only those doctors and nurses whose testimony has remained unchanged should be given serious study. At least that's my opinion. Daniel, could you elaborate a bit on what Perry said in those letters? In Weisberg, he mentioned the "ring of bruising" and that he wiped blood from the neck wound. It appears he got a clear look at the wound. Thanks, Nick

Very nice work, David. I've never seen that video before. Would be interesting to see those same Z frames analyzed in the 35 mm format Nick

Michael Unfortunately, no. I have this issue and checked it last night. BTW, my Mom's Mom was a Hogan. Joe Joe, there's a slim possibly I may have that issue. If you get stuck, let me know. It would be somewhat time consuming to try and locate Nick

Frankie, I was going through the dates again and it was more likely about 1993 or 1994 when I last met Mr Denlea. As to getting a definitive answer from the firm, do you think it would be very helpful if Doug Horne would also get involved as a former member of the AARB? I don't know if he would be willing, though. Thanks for your work on this. I never thought you would be able to get any information. Nick

Pat, I wasn't aware that office had been shut down. You do indeed live in Siberia as Simi Valley is wayyy out there Mr Denlea was based at the Home Office at 4680 Wilshire Blvd. He would certainly have visited the Simi Valley office and had lunch there on many occasions. The last time I saw him we sat 5 feet apart in the commercial division office in LA where I worked. That was probably in the late 90's. At that time, I had no idea he was married to the Admiral's daughter. I just learned of that within the last few years at this forum. Had I known, I would have asked him privately about it. Who knows what that would have led to. I am wondering if the Illig files were really destroyed about 20 years ago, or were they destroyed later than that by the family's request after the AARB contact. I find it hard to believe those records would be destroyed without the family's knowledge or consent. Frankie, I think the information from Admiral Burkley would have been extremely valuable to serious JFK researchers.

Leo Denlea Jr was the CEO at Farmers Insurance in Los Angeles where I also worked. I met him a few times and certainly had the impression he was a very private man. He also had a reputation of being quiet spoken and reasonable. I believe he simply asked his wife to change her mind as he did not want his family name associated with the assassination. Too bad there was no followup as there may have been the possibility of another change of mind. Sad that personal considerations win out over such important historical information.

This is an excellent thread. One additional piece solidifies the neck wound as one of entrance. Dr Perry confirmed to Weisberg in 1966 that the wound had a "ring of bruising". It's in Weisberg's book, Post Mortem

Hi Nick.. I believe you meant to say THE MC, not "A" MC.... and when you add the number of 5th floor references from Sawyer... and what he and 2 others did between 12:34 and 12:37... the 5th floor gets more interesting.. Former AFT agent Frank Ellsworth, who participated in a *second* search of the book depository conducted after 1:30 p.m. on November 22, 1963, according to a Secret Service document, confirms that the Mannlicher-Carcano was found by a DPD detective on the fourth or fifth floor of the building, "not on the same floor as the cartridges." He adds: "I remember we talked about it, and figured that he must have run out from the stairwell and dropped it as he was running downstairs." Yes, David. Thanks for the emphasis on that. I had not thought about the 2 rifle issue for some time. If true, how ironic that THE Manlicher was found AND Roger Craig's Mauser, with the word Mauser stamped on it, was also found. No need to switch rifles..one just disappears after a few days Nick

Interesting about the 4th floor. I believe ATF agent Frank Ellsworth was involved in a search about 130 pm and said a Manlicher Carcano was found either on the 4th or 5th floor, not the same floor as the shells.