Joe Bauer

Really ominous.

Whether faked or not, I am always struck by Oswald's unusual body and head and neck anatomy. In the photo above, where a photo of Roscoe White is next to one of Oswald holding the rifle in his backyard, Oswald's head and neck seem starkly larger and thicker in proportion to the rest of Oswald's upper body than a normal person imo. Oswald has extremely small bone and short horizontal length narrow shoulders. Yet in this photo his neck seems abnormally wide and thick. Especially in contrast to his extremely small narrow shoulders. Same with his head size. Oswald has a very thin, short and small over-all body frame. He weighed what...140 to 150 lbs? But in this photo his head seems so large in comparison to his lower body frame it doesn't seem anatomically correct. Not suggesting anything conspiratorial at all with this odd body, neck, head proportion of Oswald observation. Just that it stands out to me. Oswald's neck is so wide/thick I thought perhaps he might have suffered from some thyroid malfunction condition.

Good assessment of LBJ in my opinion. He would do "anything" to gain, keep and increase his political and even personal interests. I could easily believe he ordered murders. Henry Marshall for one. His aggressive promotion and implementation of his "Great Society" programs was to try to establish another legacy of himself besides a totally corrupt sociopathic crook from the well known ( Ed Clark run ) corrupt state of Texas one. Like Al Capone giving more to charity than our government wants people to know. And El Chapo giving billions back to the poor. He was likened to Robin Hood in this way. Countless ruthless big money criminals have done the same thing. Hoping to establish a better legacy than just ruthless killer. Remember, if JFK hadn't been murdered, those investigations into LBJ's corrupt business dealings would have gone on. No matter the outcome, JFK could never have kept the tainted LBJ on the 1964 presidential election ticket. LBJ knew this. His "only" chance for political survival and a term as president was with JFK's total removal. Bobby Kennedy knew how corrupt and dangerous LBJ truly was. He once described LBJ as "an animal." Both LBJ and Hoover needed RFK gone. If RFK was ever president...both those guys ( "we're like brothers" LBJ to Hoover) would be ruined and maybe even indicted.

Kirk, Madeline Brown may have embellished certain aspects of her story. I believe she did a few times in her public appearances. But, to what degree? She seemed to mis-remember some things and was willing to fill in those blanks with contradicting recollections rather than simply admitting she couldn't remember or didn't know certain specific points of her story. Maybe too she got a little star struck by the media attention she was given once her story broke nationally? But, as with all personal accounts relating to the big event and the main characters involved that reveal shocking claims (like Brown's) one has to decide how much, if any, part of their tales they want to believe. Brown's account of LBJ's growling "after tomorrow..." words to her regarding a pre-event knowledge of something ominous happening to the Kennedys to effect his personal animosity relief seemed just too LBJ specific true to me. Too specific and LBJ tone, content and speaking manner appropriate to be dismissed as totally made up. I think one of the reason's Brown's LBJ comment tale acquired so much traction was a wide spread feeling ( like mine) of believability regards this particular part of her story. If Madeline created this LBJ comment tale out of her head, she sure won the Irvin Thalberg award for creative dramatic license skill and achievement that convinced millions to believe her LBJ growling comment story more than not. And to this day.

JP, you are so right about Milteer imo.

Madeline Duncan Brown was quite a bit more to LBJ than simply his "girlfriend." She was his long time kept Dallas side lover who gave birth to LBJ's son Steven. LBJ, through front men, provided her with better than cheap apartment, junky car and K-Mart living expenses for decades. A simple girlfriend should be so lucky. Brown has been heavily reputation attacked by media connected LBJ defenders ever since she first came forward with her claim of being LBJ's long time kept lover and his presence at one of the Murchison Dallas homes the evening of 11,21,1963 and his growling comment to her regarding JFK "after tomorrow those GD ... will never embarrass me again." This campaign of reputation ruining tells us Madeline Brown was a desperate for money xxxx who made up her story not just to make a quick buck, but also to get back at LBJ and his people and family for cutting off her comfortable expense account and perhaps having her son Steven kidnapped and in some way even killed. In the documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" is a brief segment of an interview of long time employed ( 35 years!) Virginia Murchison housekeeper May Newman. In this interview, Newman relates this same evening get together that Madeline Brown claimed at one of the Murchison Dallas homes the evening of 11,21,1963, where many big shots had been gathered for some important reason, including "Bulldog" J. Edgar Hoover himself. I am not sure who's "Murchison big shot gathering" story was related first, Madeline Brown or May Newman, but the two accounts back each other's up in many details. If this secret gathering actually took place and on the evening before 11,22,1963 and with Hoover himself flying in to attend, the implications are incredibly important in so many ominous ways. And a secret off the books late night drive over to it by LBJ would be very plausible, especially since LBJ and Hoover were so personally close ("like brothers"-LBJ.) Sorry, my take on Brown and her LBJ comments account is much more believing than not. And 35 year employed Virginia Murchison housekeeper May Newman struck me as one of the most totally honest, sincere and morally grounded person's interviewed in the entire TMWKK documentary series. And her tale of the ominous Murchison get together with J. Edgar Hoover ( Bulldog) secretly flying in to attend rings totally true imo. She even mentions by name others employed by the Murchisons who were direct witnesses to this gathering. Jules Fifer-driver and Beula May ( last name escapes me ) the main Murchison family cook. Newman was willing to give first and last names of these other witnesses to this gathering which if she was lying was incredibly stupid and risky on her part. She seemed very sharp and clear headed and not stupid in that interview. Brown's and Newman's accounts bolster each others regarding this same secret big shot Murchison gathering on 11,21,1963 with Hoover in attendance. And it's logical LBJ would pop in to say hi to his brother Hoover when he was just 20 minutes away and visiting one of LBJ's most powerful and wealthy backers, Clint Murchison.

What an absolutely crazy, unprofessional, irresponsible and just plain STUPID press packed mad house right inside the halls of the Dallas, PD that evening. Shouting press people crammed together so closely the police had a hard time even getting Oswald by and through them! Huge mobile TV cameras which required lots of heavy cable throughout the halls and rooms? Oswald put in front of this packed in like sardines world press reporter crowd and cameras and allowed to answer questions without the presence of an attorney which could have opened himself up to incredibly self-incriminating statements. Oswald mentions right off he hasn't been provided any legal assistance. He was asking for this! They should have stopped the press show right there and gotten Oswald back to his holding cell. What an outrageous and disturbing lack of security and professionalism common sense on the part of Chief Curry and whoever else allowed this circus right inside their building. All so the press could see Chief Curry's men weren't physically abusing Oswald? Hog wash! When did anyone ever see a large city police department allow the interior of their main police department building to be over-run like that by hordes of press reporters and with huge mobile cameras and cable making the scene even more cramped and crowded when they were still in the process of interrogating a suspect of great criminal importance actions? And then to bring the suspect right in front of this horde of reporters to be questioned without any legal rights advising and protecting counsel? If Oswald had someone ( even a public defender attorney ) there, this person would have fielded the questions, not Oswald. You never saw Jack Ruby paraded right in front of the press like that just hours after his arrest for whacking Oswald. Why not? If it was good enough for Oswald, heck Oswald denied everything and not one witness could say they actually saw Oswald shoot at JFK, yet millions of Americans watched Ruby shoot Oswald on live TV! The way the Dallas PD paraded Oswald around like that ( including the Sunday morning perp walk into the DPD basement) and allowed their DP building to be over-run by the press like that will always be one of the most outrageously negligent acts of entire Police department incompetence ever in American history. Still 58 years later, it is hard to watch.

Amazing photo analysis presentation here. Kudos to whoever made this.

And Mary Meyer.

Curious. Do big cement buildings brought down in controlled demolition pulverize into mostly ash like both towers? And if they do, wouldn't it be mainly facilitated by having many explosive devices going off in sequence on every floor? Heck, video of buildings being hit by huge tonnage aerial dropped bombs during World War II showed irregular collapsing of their walls but never a pulverizing into ash like 911.

Ha! The arrow pointed guy does look like Ruby. But the two fellows in the first thread photos are one and the same...Jack Ruby. Or as District Attorney Wade called him in his press conference Sunday, 11,24.1963... "His name is a ... Jack Rubenstein I believe."

Before Ruby pulled the trigger on his 38-caliber Colt Cobra in the basement of the Dallas Police Department, did he get cold feet or have second thoughts? Or did he want to get caught before he actually carried out his mission? Billy Grammer, a Dallas Police dispatcher, says he received a telephone threat against Oswald's life the night before Oswald's murder. He said the tipster did not identify himself, but did greet the officer by name. The caller advised police to change their plans for Oswald's transfer to another jail the next day. The voice on the other end was urgent—asserting, "We are going to kill him!" Only after Jack Ruby murdered Oswald did Grammer realize he had been talking to a local striptease club operator he knew well. "It had to be Ruby," he later disclosed. Grammer says that phone call convinced him the Oswald slaying was "not spontaneous," but rather a "planned event." 14

Oswald was so, so open it was sickening. Practically in front of his two side bodyguards. And there was that several seconds long hold up pause waiting for the transfer car to back up, which gave Ruby the chance to leap out and get within inches close to and a much easier aimed shot into the stopped wide open Oswald. ( reminds one of JFK's limo slowed almost to a stop right before his head shot?) Levealle often mentioned in his interviews that the transfer car was supposed to be in place ( right in front of him and Oswald) when they arrived there, which if it had been, would have blocked out Ruby and prevented him from having that 2 to 3 second interval with direct access to a stopped and wide open Oswald. Also, wouldn't you think "somebody" in charge of organizing the security plan for this staged scene for the press would have set up at least a rope barrier at that crucial point and space where Oswald is supposed to be placed in the waiting and crowd blocking squad car? The press fellows and cameramen were able to press up to Oswald close enough to almost touch him with their outstretched mike holding arms and hands! No press crowd restraint barrier planning at all. This whole scene of allowing that aggressive yelling press mob into that cramped basement and so close up to Oswald ( and with their blinding lamp and flash bulb lights ) looked so obviously and illogically security planning wrong from the get go ... it was outrageously disturbing and suspicious. Levealle also stated he suggested to Chief Curry in their perp walk into the cramped and crowded press packed basement pre-planning meet up an alternate, less visible and risky plan to get Oswald into a County Jail transfer car simply and quickly without the crowd. He says Curry dismissed his suggestion with his oft-repeated press allowing excuse that he wanted the press close up to show that his police department wasn't physically abusing Oswald. The whole Oswald perp walk into that super cramped and crowded press area and with the transfer car unable to get into it's crowd separating position due to the lack of press crowd control was " you've got to be kidding me!" sickening in it's gut wrenching common sense security failure. And lastly, big hulking DPD officer "Blackie" Harrison was "on duty" that morning, purposely placed on the press crowd side of the scene, obviously to help keep them at bay? So, what is he doing during the entire time Oswald is being walked right up to the press line? He staring at Oswald, not at all at the press people around and behind him and especially Jack Ruby who was right next to him! In fact, several of the press members were closer to Oswald than Harrison was. Ike Pappas could have reached out and shook Oswald's cuffed hands! Curry should have been fired for Oswald's murder right in his own building! Leavelle also stated that he had no input respect at all in any talk of Oswald's transfer security. He stated the transfer security decisions were already created and locked in by Curry...and "others" much higher in authority than him. I believe he very well meant Mayor Cabell as one of these higher authority persons. It's hard to believe Cabell wasn't constantly informed about what his police department was up to regards every move they intended with their handling of Oswald. Cabell was being constantly interviewed by the world press about everything surrounding the events of that weekend...and he was well aware that tens of millions of people everywhere were suspicious of Dallas being the location of JFK's murder. Dallas itself was under great suspicion scrutiny and widespread public mistrust and anger. I personally watched Oswald being whacked by Jack Ruby live on TV myself 57 1/2 years ago. And to this day I am just as suspicious and angry about how that all went down as the moment I saw it all unfold.

Looking back at the "live" national television coverage of Ruby murdering Oswald, I find it fascinating, even surreal, that in the following footage we actually see an almost full profile shot of Ruby just seconds before he jumps out from his front row position in the press line and blasts Oswald in the gut with his 38. This is at the 15 second mark of the video. To see Ruby up close like that, ready to pounce just before his infamous act on live National TV is an incredibly dramatic and iconic bit of historic news coverage. Ruby not only got into that basement press crowd suspiciously, but he was even able to position himself as close to Oswald as any newsman there - without being noticed? Sorry, way too improbable and way beyond happenstance luck in my opinion. Notice also, that in that quick profile camera footage of Ruby we see he is standing right next to one of his closest police buddies "Blackie" Harrison. A close cop buddy of Ruby...for years! When you see the scanned shot of Ruby in this following video, tell me it isn't a surreal aspect to the Oswald murder scene to follow? WATCH LATER ADD TO QUEUE Lee Harvey Oswald shot by Jack Ruby 5.1M views7 years ago CNN Jack Ruby shoots and kills Lee Harvey Oswald in front of news cameras. From "T

Very interesting subject. Also, the DPD allowed their building to become a complete circus with frantic packed press people, cameras and cable stretched everywhere soon after Oswald was processed ... right inside their most important inner office areas. I once heard Jim Levealle state in an interview he had to literally fight through press people inside the DPD to move from one department place to another soon after Oswald was in custody. I think he related it to a mad house. At one point, a camera wielding press person actually squeezed his upper body between Levealle's legs to try to get a photo shot, and Levealle chuckled as he described his kicking the reporter so hard he flew back several feet! That press mob scene was beyond any excuse of simple naivete. It was beyond innocent and even ignorant negligence. It was criminal negligence imo. The DPD building should have been in complete lockdown the second Oswald was brought into it. With only authorized police and other police agency personnel allowed access. For years I've always said, the DPD department heads and Chief Curry himself should have been fired for all those insane security incompetence scenes...ending with one of the most negligent acts of security breakdown in their history ( and America's history ) with Lee Harvey Oswald shot and killed while handcuffed to two DPD officers...right inside their own PD building!

Chuck, Wade was feigning not knowing Jack Ruby after Ruby shot Oswald. Wade knew Jack Ruby well and for many years. Wade to the press: " His name is a ... Jack Rubenstein I believe." Oh please Wade. His name is Jack Ruby and you know it and him well! Why the act Wade?

And you can be sure that in every interview Trump sucks up all the conversation time promoting one desperate message over any other...promoting the false reality that he is not "a loser."

Weitzman was in the military. No matter his duty in the service, all enlisted men back then had some gun handling, cleaning and firing training. Even if just in boot camp. Combined with his sporting goods/gun shop ownership, he had to have had much more hands on experience with guns ( especially rifles) than the average person. You don't sell hunting rifles if you don't know these guns. This fact logically sets Weitzman's "two shots simultaneously" testimony apart in the credibility department imo. Referring back to the Houston Street sidewalk photo; look at the tall big head and jaw "Arrow" man in the right back again. Using the horizontal break line between the large wall stones in the background, notice the arrow man's head is a good 5, 6 or even 7 inches above that break line. That is a very tall man. No one else in the photo comes close to this man's height. Hemming was what...6 ft. 9 inches in height? Also, regarding the tall, thin faced, bespectacled lower left man with his right hand upraised and touching his fedora, I have seen photo's of Rip Robertson that are dead ringer ones for this man in this photo. I'll see if I can find them and post some. Seems Houston Street and the sidewalk pedestrians on this while JFK passed by is a potential rogues gallery of suspicious characters. Even if they aren't the nefarious JFK hating people some have suggested, one must admit they really look suspiciously similar to them. Rip Robertson, Gerry Hemming, Lucien Conein, Joseph Milteer, etc.

If it is absolutely true that Jack Ruby made even occasional trips to California, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Miami, even Cuba ( and the prison Santos Trafficantti was being held at there ) etc. and had any meet ups at all with mobsters just one or two ranks lower than the highest mob people like Carlos Marcello, Mickey Cohen and the big honcho himself Santos Trafficante ( which Lewis McWillie was ) there had to be more to Jack Ruby than the 2nd rate barely making it, always in tax debt, tacky Dallas strip joint owner who was renown for personally beating the holy crap out of unruly drunken customers, regularly arguing with his girls over his lowest pay scale and known for his deli sandwich delivery give-aways more than anything. Owners of mob front bakeries and pizza parlors ( which for sure made more money for the Mob than Ruby's Carousel Club ) aren't sent on all expenses paid, high ranking member meet up adventures like that. And in the few weeks before the JFK assassination, this nobody is making direct calls to two of the most notorious mob hitmen ( Detroit's Barney Baker and New Orleans Nofio Pecora ) all because of some problem with the union and Weinstein brothers who owned Ruby's competing strip joints in Dallas?

If Mailer had instead concluded that Oswald wasn't the shooter, or in the least, didn't act alone...I guarantee you all these high media positive reviews of his book "Oswald's Tale" would have been replaced with equally disparaging ones. Mailer would have been trashed by these same critics and his OT book sales would have been less than 1/3rd of his "Oswald did it" total.

I don't think the man pointed out with an arrow in the Houston Street photo is Weitzman. For several reasons. The man in the photo is very tall. Even further back than everyone else, he is still taller than them all. Weitzman was not a tall man. Maybe even short? The "Arrow" man also has a very big head and very large lower jaw. Both bigger than Weitzman's for sure. The Arrow man is standing by himself, with no one close to him. Weitzman stated he was standing with at least one other fellow officer if not more. To me, the Arrow man looks very much like Gerry Patrick Hemming. Same head and jaw size and shape. And the Arrow man has a hair cut like Hemming has been photographed with in at least one photo of him in his Marine uniform. Same hair color as well. The two older men in the photo in the lower left look like twins. Both are wearing similar type glasses. Both wearing the same fedoras. Same height and build. Same suit and tie type. Same expression. The twin man on the left with his right hand touching his fedora looks just like Rip Robertson to me. There is also another suspiciously interesting man in the photo ( I believe it is an expanded version ) that looks like Lucien Conein to me as well. What age was Lucien Conein in 1963? 44? The Conein look-alike looks to be in his mid-forties to early fifties. The lady in sunglasses and a scarf looks to me like a man in drag.

It takes some extremely powerful emotional motivation to kill another human being who "isn't immediately attacking or a direct threat" to the person who does so. Relationship jealousy is probably one of the most powerful and common motivators. Boozed up jealous rage fueled Malcolm Wallace drove to and walked in on Austin, Texas Butler Park pitch and putt golf course manager/owner John Douglas Kinser ( who was having sex with his wife - or was it LBJ's sister Josefa - or both?) and in broad daylight and in front of others blasted the unarmed Kinser to death. Perfect example of the jealousy motivation. Robbery is another common defenseless victim killing motivator. Severe social and mental illness another. And of course, orders to do so by others who have higher power and authority over the killer is another. To do this aggressive defenseless victim killing ( like Ruby did to Oswald ) one has to consider which of the motivations listed makes the most sense in Ruby's case with Oswald. JFK's killing, and Ruby's assumption that Oswald did this along with the grief Jackie might have to bear with an Oswald trial was enough to push Ruby over the edge to life ruining and life risking murderous insanity? Ruby could have easily been shot to death himself firing his revolver to kill just feet from dozens of armed, on edge police officers who felt threatened themselves. How at least one of those highest alert DPD police officers didn't shoot Ruby in the melee has always more than surprised me. Of course, Ruby's most quoted explanation for whacking the no threat Oswald is ridiculous. In this super risky aggressive act, Ruby wasn't drunk, he wasn't wild eyed mad and he wasn't showing blind rage. He was calmly and connivingly covert and deliberate. Clearly the most logical sounding motivation for Ruby's Oswald killing action is orders from above. And who was above Ruby in any way personally and professionally? Personally you could say Ruby listened to his Rabbi from time to time. Ruby's sister Eva seems to have been the most influential person in his personal affairs Dallas adult life. Professionally? Guess who? The Mob for sure. Maybe police officials? Also, Ruby post the Oswald whacking, never, ever showed or expressed any remorse for doing so. He even bragged about it. Jews have guts! >>> How much "guts" and courage does it take to shoot an unarmed, handcuffed, non-threatening and totally unsuspecting and openly exposed victim? <<< Ruby actually seemed cocky after shooting and killing Oswald. Anyone who can kill a defenseless victim outside of the most common emotional stressed motivation reasons...and doesn't feel one ounce of remorse later for doing so...is a cowardly sociopath. Ruby would toss people down a flight of stairs, beat their heads into the sidewalk, kick em occasionally...and this never seemed to bother Ruby's conscience at all? Ruby had the mental and emotional make up of a mob enforcer imo. Getting Ruby to whack Oswald wouldn't have been a struggle for him ethically, morally, empathically. Ruby must have seen Oswald writhing in unbelievable pain from his shot. Didn't bother him at all. Just some contemplating thought sharing about who Jack Ruby really was and what he was about.

What other reasons could there possibly be for any of the Dallas wealthy elite and power people to have any association with 2nd rate strip joint owning Jack "brass knuckle" Ruby other than gambling, pimp, bag man and deli sandwiches? And not knowing how intimate Ruby's friendship was with McClendon, but wouldn't supposedly JFK and Jackie loving Ruby have been put off by McClendon's apparently open vitriolic hatred of JFK?

Yale educated, super wealthy McClendon was certainly a major power and influence player. Connected to some of the most important agency people. And yet he had buddy-buddy time for a rough edged, occasional mob connecting, sleazy local strip joint owner like Jack Ruby? Maybe Ruby brought him and his station employees more than just deli sandwiches?

Sounds like BS to me also Ron. Cabell was communicating with Chief Curry a lot that weekend. Don't tell me that Cabell didn't have influence. A lot of it imo.