Joe Bauer

I've been saying and promoting the same idea for years CB. There must be some film footage of Lansdale walking somewhere. The man was in the middle of so many highest level command postings and actions. Lots of stills. Maybe hundreds? Everything takes money however. A project like this would cost thousands. I'd sure like to know what China's new super advanced ID technology could find regards any Lansdale presence in Dealey that day though.

That picture of a proudly jubilant Trump and happy as can be, star struck kid Rittenhousen is sickening. The message is obvious. Trump is glowingly showing off his young gleefully smiling protege "hero" who "courageously" blew away a couple of liberal activists ( while breaking numerous serious laws ) as if their killing is cause to celebrate and bestow honor? OMG ... this country ( Trump's country ) has gone crazy! Surprised Trump didn't pin a medal of honor on the Kenosha Kid. And does that kid's face and facial expression look like someone who honestly has "any" remorse, regret or sorrow ( even one ounce?) about brutally, bloodily and painfully taking the lives of two men just months ago? The kid looks like he is living his violent video game hero fascist Disneyland dream! "WOW...look at me mom! I'm a somebody now!" If a liberal cause protester viscously blew away two Trump supporters, Trump and his cult would be screaming for a quick and painful death penalty ruling. It's all so GD perverse!

Just listened to your interview on "Talk Louisiana." Interesting as always. And interesting too that such a radio program ( conspiracy subjects ) exist there. I think of more liberal audience areas such as California and New York where such programs seem more typical. Like you say, Oswald's activities in New Orleans the Summer of 63 clearly were meant to establish his bonafides as a Castro sympathizer. A very outspoken even public figure one. Downtown, broad daylight Pro-Castro leaflet passing where he could be photographed and even filmed. Radio and even TV interviews followed ? Always suspiciously incongruous to me Oswald putting so much time and energy into these highly antagonistic public political pronouncement and exposure activities in a city known as one of the top two or three resettlement areas in the U.S. for the most hot headed and militant minded anti-Castro groups and individuals. Oswald being physically confronted and roughed up by a band of them during his first pamphlet passing effort in downtown N.O. should have logically made anyone doing so aware of the real dangers of such activities and made them pause? Heck, those anti-Castroites there were so hot-headed and militant minded it wouldn't seem a shock that one may have shot Oswald on the spot instead of just shoving and taking swings at him as at least DRE leader Carlos Bringuier did. And Oswald put so much time and effort into this activity while always struggling to provide even the barest most basic family support for his wife and child. He loses his last job at Reilly's Coffee plant, collects unemployment for awhile, and finally agrees to let Ruth Paine take over Marina's and daughter Junie's welfare at the end of the summer and with Marina's pregnancy getting more advanced. Oswald was failing miserably as a provider for his wife and child. If he truly loved them both you'd think he would have put all his energies into taking on just about any paid work no matter how low wage and demeaning for their welfare, especially considering Marina's extra needs during pregnancy. Oswald's stark neglect in this area at the same time he is putting a noticeable amount of time and energy into his dangerously antagonizing public political activities ( for no money ) has always been a part of the Oswald/N.O. enigma that logically begs valid suspicion of something else going on with L.O. all this time. Marina and Junie lived in roach infested digs when Ruth Paine came to New Orleans and pulled her away to live with her in Irving. Marina's basic health needs were so neglected. No pre-natal check up care. Her teeth were rotting. She was depressed living with Lee. If Lee was a informant doing things for any agency at that time, even low level and now-and-then, you would think he would have asked for more financial compensation to help his barely above the lowest poverty line life he was only able to provide for his young wife and child. So failing in his provider role, he finally lost them to someone else in their basic needs care. Informant work sure doesn't pay well it seems. Anyway, glad our resident research experts are still getting some public broadcast exposure. Always find their interviews on such venues interesting. Lastly, you mention the real possibility of others impersonating Oswald. Do you believe the Sylvia Odio "Leon" Oswald encounter story? If so, would you say the Leon Oswald she was introduced to was an imposter? And what of "Leopoldo" calling Sylvia Odio the next day and telling her that this Leon was "loco." And quoting him (Oswald ) to Sylvia as ranting that the Cuban exiles "had no guts" and should have taken out JFK for the Bay Of Pigs?

Wouldn't it have been reverentially fortuitous and just if Mort Sahl could have passed on this JFK anniversary date?

Well, at least we know that CE 399 didn't cause James Teague's cheek to be bloodied. And it certainly wasn't a well guided vengeful bird dropping that did so either. How about an earlier morning shaving nick that re-erupted due to Teague's increased blood flow due to his shock and horror at what he was witnessing? Could part of the exploding bullet that expelled from JFK's obliterated skull have kept going all the way to the cement curb next to Teague and caused his bloody nick injury? Or, perhaps a soda pop bottle dropped and shattering by a shocked shooting witness on the Triple Overpass above Teague? Or, was another target missing shot fired at JFK besides the three alleged ones?

And the Warren Commission dismissed respected long time career newspaper reporter Seth Kantor's 11/22/1963 early afternoon Jack Ruby meet up at Parkland recollection testimony as the mistaken take of an overly excited and mixed up news hound. And perversely at the same time they illogically chose instead to accept the scattered, meandering testimony of an obviously mentally addled, stress broken murderer who lied his head off about his different location activities just after JFK was shot. That one crazy, illogical finding alone ( among so many others ) in their report sealed the deal of their complicity in presenting a false truth report imo. Jack Ruby was at Parkland Hospital when Seth Kantor was there. To admit that reality would blow up the entire "Ruby not involved" aspect finding of the Warren Commission Report.

Please explain more Pamela.

All of us baby boomer generation JFK truth seekers who were alive at the time know we are the last large number group of committed interest and study of the JFK assassination members of our society. When we are gone, this relatively wide base truth seeking movement will be pretty much gone as well, imo. One supposes there will always be a miniscule sized group of dedicated students of this hugely effecting and important historical event, just like the Civil War or World War II and Viet Nam war, etc. What I personally worry about most with this passing interest and concern however is the lost understanding of why us JFK truth seekers felt our mission was so important. That the events in Dallas the weekend of 11,22, thru 11,24,1963 ( both JFK's and Lee Harvey Oswald's murders ) and the following media reporting and history book stating and so-called official investigation finding was so biased, compromised and inadequate as to beg rational Americans to doubt it all greatly. And to suspect that our highest level of governmental and societal power and control was mostly not in the hands of honest, uncorrupted democratically elected leaders. And that Eisenhower's "massive and ever growing unwarranted power and influence Military / Industrial Complex" warning speech he gave to the entire nation upon leaving office was a much more true reality statement than most American's ever realized or gave much thought to. If only half of this ominous other power control warning speech statement by Eisenhower was and still is true, we have all been living in an ignorance bubble beyond our normal daily life comprehension. Finding and knowing the full truth about the JFK and LHO murders in November of 1963 would at least free us to some degree from this 58 year long buried truth false reality existence we have been stumbling through all this time. My take anyway as to what I would tell my grandkids when or "if" they ever ask me why I have spent so much time and effort in my entire life studying and caring about the JFK/LHO murders event 58 years ago and feeling it was a conspiracy and what it possibly meant to us all in the end.

A powerful, rapid fire "killing machine" gun in the hands of an emotionally stunted, hero wanna-be adolescent raised on violent video games and who knowingly illegally acquired and carried this loaded weapon across state lines and thrust himself into the super heightened politically charged crowd of liberals close enough to the protesters to enrage them even more at the sight of him brandishing his deadly, scary and threatening looking AR 15 in their faces? The boy isn't mentally retarded. He knew the laws! He purposely violated them. Of course there will be civil suits by the families of the "victims." Sorry judge, the killed and wounded WERE victims. Any awarded civil judgments against this violent shoot-em up video raised little fascist will be paid by the Trump following. No worries there either. What is truly and seriously disturbing to me and of course millions of other Americans ( especially us liberals ) is the dangerous message this acquittal sends to us and all of America imo. If you thrust yourself right wing antagonistically into high emotion feeling liberal minded and legal protests with a brandished gun in your hand and get close enough to the crowd and incite them further just by your brandishing a gun and a physical confrontation ensues, you can shoot to kill, do so, and get away "scot-free" with it! The Trump "encouraged confrontation" message mentality era is with us in an unprecedented nationwide way, I'm sorry to say. What was it Trump once shouted to his worked up rally crowd when he saw a protester in the speaking hall? Get that guy, beat the crap out of him. I'll pay your legal bills? Or something very close to that? We all know where this violence encouraging messaging is born from. Donald Trump!

It's nut country all right. Everywhere. All living in a misguided fantasy world led by their fearless/ savior leader Donald Trump! Like this kid. He wanted to be a vigilante hero in some far away town? Why? He obviously read some news and thought these dangerous left wing liberals should be confronted? Did he think of Trump as his hero? Said he paid his friend to illegally get him this gun because the gun looked "cool." "Cool?" This kid was raised playing violent shoot em up video games according to a few sources. This must have been a exciting real life shoot em up game to him. Then illegally underage and illegally owning this gun he crosses state lines with it, fully loads it and thrusts himself into a tense and angry politically motivated protest crowd brandishing this very threatening and powerful rifle. And when someone lunges at him probably worked up more by seeing this deadly rifle he blows his guts out and kills another and wounds another. He then walks? That's as outrageous as LBJ getting Doug Kinser shooting and killing Mac Wallace off Scott free after a Texas jury found him "guilty of first degree murder!"

Both Both JFK and Lennon were marked men and had this in common. They promoted "peace." "Give Peace A Chance. And "We All Breathe The Same Air." JFK speaking at American University: "Today, should total war ever break out again, no matter how, our two countries would become the primary targets. It is an ironic but accurate fact that the two strongest powers are the two in the most danger of devastation. All we have built, all we have worked for, would be destroyed in the first 24 hours. And even in the cold war, which brings burdens and dangers to so many nations, including this nation’s closest allies, our two countries bear the heaviest burdens. >>> For we are both devoting massive sums of money to weapons that could be better devoted to combating ignorance, poverty, and disease. <<< We are both caught up in a vicious and dangerous cycle in which suspicion on one side breeds suspicion on the other, and new weapons beget counter weapons. In short, both the United Sates and its allies, have a mutually deep interest in a just and genuine peace and in halting the arms race. Agreements to this end are in the interests of the Soviet Union as well as ours; and even the most hostile nations can be relied upon to accept and keep those treaty obligations, and only those treaty obligations, which are in their own interest. So, let us not be blind to our differences. But let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved. And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity. For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children’s future. And we are all mortal." Seems promoting peace is a seriously dangerous thing.

That's a lot of fascinating life, achievement and living. What an incredible force of courageous social engagement and concerned moral energy in so many areas of the world all around him. And for so long! San Francisco with it's hip clubs and uniquely quaint and open minded liberal sophistication scene was the perfect birth place for a young Mort Sahl to find his way and audience. So well read. A true intellectual. A hip Socratic icon figure of his time imo. I wonder if Socrates enlightened his students with anything close to the wit of Sahl? Our last surviving hero of the New Orleans investigation and the overall JFK truth mission. "The truth hurts, but the lies will kill you." A simple but revealing summation of the JFKA and how we as a society have dealt with it for 58 years? Great read about Mort Sahl here by Bill Davy.

I feel Trump and gang should be in jail for this coup attempt. And I can't understand how half of all Americans don't feel this same way. It seems so clear cut to me. In the least, for Trump's purposeful non-action for 2 hours while this huge violent and traumatizing mob attack against almost all our Congress ( with many serious injuries and even death! ) and with our second most important Democracy landmark being trashed was occurring right in front of his TV watching eyes and more than one person in his war/ music playing cheering room pleading with him to do something more than "nothing" to protect the attacked! I really believe that if our most esteemed and well known elder statesmen journalists and pundits like George Will and others would call this coup crime out for what it was ( the most serious act of sedition since the Civil War ) instead of remaining silent or almost silent about it...lynch mob coup inciter Trump might be looked at in the honest reality way he should be. January 6th, my wife and I watched this mob attack live on TV in utter gut wrenching shock and disbelief! It was actually scary and extremely unsettling. It was like watching one of those Hollywood "our DC government under attack" films only "this was for real!" Our senators and congress persons cowering in fear. Police battling tooth and nail against death threat screaming hundreds. It was really traumatizing to see. Like 911 we were saying "what has this world come to?" America descending into violent mob madness. Our own Capital Building under destructive attack by hundreds of screaming mob Brown Shirt goon squad types shouting Trump slogans and kill Mike Pence and Nancy where are you? Bashing in Nancy Pelosi's office door, trashing her office stealing her lap top? Trump has brought us to the brink. He really has. Hard to believe almost all our main stream media cannot report this current state of national affairs in it's true reality. It's like they just want to pretend the Capital building insurrection wasn't that bad and none of this is that threateningly real, dangerous and important. But it is. By the way, hope to see Jim D's and Oliver Stone's new film this Friday evening here on the West Coast just feet from the rocky, wave crashing shore line. And on this 58th JFK anniversary I will light a candle and pray for the full truth to someday come out.

Step back just for one minute here. Look at what Trump wanted and incited on January 6th. A physically intimidating attack on our Capital building full of almost all of our Congress, their aides and scores of Capital policemen and women. Put the events of that day into their proper perspective. A mob attack to try to subvert the most sacred Democratic and Constitutional institution principles our entire society is based on! The "Man" and his cohorts wanted this to happen! Incited and encouraged it! Talk about high crimes and misdemeanors? Trump U.S. Constitution subverting brain trust buddy and partner in grift crime ( absconded his "Build The Wall" donation funds ) Steve Bannon boasted the day before Jan. 6th ... "all hell's going to break loose tomorrow." A simple off-the-wall lucky prediction guess? Imagine someone well known in the media saying the same thing a day before 9/11/2001? There doesn't need to be a social media mention smoking gun record by the mob members or communication to nefarious behind the scene higher up others to know that the mob members were guided by others. They didn't come up with the idea of storming the Capital building spur of the moment and on their own. And Trump watching this frighteningly shocking violent insurrection action for 1 or two hours on TV like the rest of us little people and not doing anything to stop it by that time is...well...if you don't know, what's the use in even trying to explain it's true reality highest crime importance? Trying to separate and dissipate blame from the Trump camp simply because of a lack of actual pre-attack social media and telephone records communication between the mob members and nefarious higher ups is a weak diversionary waste of time effort imo. These higher up insurrection encouraging and enabling guys ( Trump - Bannon, et al. ) should all be in jail! And you know it.

Every time I see this photo I cringe. Why the Dallas PD even allowed "anyone" to be on the overpass as JFK was driving underneath defied simple common sense security logic imo. Chief Curry in defending his force after JFK was slaughtered said they took the most unprecedented security measures in their history in their role in the security of the motorcade. Really? Oswald's murder just two days later while in their physical custody and own building was just frosting on the cake in their mind boggling security duty negligence and worst case scenario failure. What an embarrassing legacy in their history.

An important question should also be: Did Oswald actually say to Will Fritz "that car belongs to Ruth Paine. Don't try to pull her into this." ? As Roger Craig claims he did in his presence after Captain Fritz asked Oswald about the car Craig claims he saw Oswald get into just in front of the Texas School book depository. Like anyone interested in Roger Craig's interview statements in Mark Lane's documentary "Two Men In Dallas" I have pondered whether Craig made up any or much of his stated Oswald and 6th floor gun observations. And if so, why? "And right on the barrel it said Mauser 765." I was there with Oswald and Fritz in Fritz's interrogation room. Did Roger Craig make up his shocking alternate truth story? With dozens of specific details? For fame and or money? If he did it all sure backfired. His personal life was a living hell after he came forward with his claims. Lost his marriage, broke, physical pain and suffering so bad he ended up killing himself. Did all these other Dealey Plaza present witnesses make up theirs as well? Carolyn Walther, Arnold Rowland, Virgil "Ed" Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Julia Ann Mercer, Lee Bowers, the Dallas Morning News reporter who saw blood on cement steps near the Plaza Pergola, etc. etc.? If even half of their stories are true and observations correct, you can't help but sense something else happening in Dealey Plaza that day in November, 1963 besides the WR summary.

Several times I have thought NBC news correspondent Tom Pettit's first breath taking reported words of shock to millions of Americans watching Lee Harvey Oswald's death trap transfer perp walk in the Dallas Police Department basement live on national TV on 11,24,1963 ... "HE'S BEEN SHOT - HE'S BEEN SHOT! LEE OSWALD'S BEEN SHOT!" would be a very interesting and captivating title to a book focusing on the Dallas P.D. and their mind boggling, worst case security failure handling of our country's most important criminal suspect ever ... Lee Harvey Oswald. From their first arresting Oswald in the Texas Theater to his nation shocking murder on live TV in their own PD building basement and custody combined with their own questionably tolerant long term relationship with Oswald's sleazy strip joint owner assassin Jack Ruby. I've always said that Lee Oswald's brutal shot in the gut murder in the custody hands of the Dallas PD ( literally!) and it's showing on live TV did more to shake our entire nation's trust in what they were being told about JFK's assassination than has ever been adequately reported and summarized. Personally not seeing JFK shot and only hearing reports and articles of it did not have the power that Oswald's live TV murder had on our nation's psyche. Oswald's live on TV murder shook us viscerally more in certain ways imo. It instantly created an extremely deep gut wrenching grip of doubt and suspicion in the minds of tens of millions of Americans. Doubt ,suspicion and even mistrust in everything they were hearing and reading about the JFK assassination. I believe that Oswald's almost impossibly improbable murder while in police custody was one of the top three dynamics that created a poll reported majority of conspiracy believers for generations. I believe it's important to know how Oswald's improbable murder took place the way it did and why and how it changed our nation's perceptions regarding government mistrust and suspicion on the unprecedented level it has been. And of course, MLK's and RFK's murders only added to this deep mistrust. In my mind, Oswald's time in the Dallas PD custody and confines is a fascinating story unto itself. It was a circus of press crush allowed bedlam. Incessant shouting, police fighting to get through the crush, big cables and cameras to worry about tripping over. Press literally shoving their faces and pounding against Will Fritz's office door windows while Oswald is actually being interrogated in the room next door? Oswald's very own police escort detective Jim Leavelle many times described the scene as "a complete circus" in years later interviews. And wondered how that scene was so out of control like that. He once giddily described kicking a reporter who had actually wiggled between his legs to get a photo shot of Oswald so hard the man went flying ten feet back! Oswald's assassin Jack Ruby himself was running to and fro in the hallway crowds during Oswald's custody. NUTS! Chief Curry ignored calls for tighter Oswald transfer protocol. Why? Chief Curry stated to the press only 25 of his officers ever even knew Jack Ruby. He knew that was not true. The FBI demanded all the physical gun and other item evidence of Oswald's guilt within 24 hours of JFK's death. Gun, bullets, prints, etc. It was packaged up and sent to them that quickly. Unfortunately they and every other part of our federal government left the most important piece of evidence behind to be held in the hands of the Dallas PD. Lee Oswald himself. And we all know how that turned out.

How can any rational, half-way intelligent person read Trump's words above ( in all their disjointed, meandering, stammering, thrice repeated, scattered thought jumbleness ) and not see the mental illness pathology of the man? Like a hyped up meth addict rant. And Trump "is" trying to downplay the real life threat to Pence ( and hundreds of members of congress and capitol police ) and in that perversely unfeeling and seditious vein, defend the insurrectionist mob. How did we get through this seriously disturbed obsessive false reality promoting person as president without dividing and damaging us all even further? Trump's obsession with trying to create and promote a false reality that he did not lose the election is so overwhelming in it's never ending intensity it's gut wrenching to keep hearing him repeat this at every opportunity.

"You can't make this stuff up." No you can't.

You know? This extreme violence intention scenario on the part of Trump is no longer unbelievable to me. In my years of observing Trump - his words, actions, policy promotions and appointments the more I truly believe he would have actually accepted and even encouraged the entire country turning into armed conflict chaos, as long as the end result or aim was to keep him in office so he couldn't be labeled a "one term loser." A person voted out of office after just one term mainly because of his fomenting unprecedented national angst, anger, hatred, mistrust, division and even violence, capped off with his outrageously incited and deadly coup attempt using his crazy followers to try to pull off this highest political level criminal action which traumatized and endangered the lives of almost all our congress, his own Vice President and those capital police who actually tried to fight off this mob. And we all know our president Trump watched this violent, person and property injuring mob insurrection unfold and carry on for hours on TV like the rest of us and purposely refused to take any action to stop it. Proof of Trump's mind blowing collusion in this most threatening action against our government and democracy since the Civil War is what he and his followers are trying to keep a lid on in fighting to keep the personal notes information from the Senate Investigation into the January 6 insurrection. Future U.S. history books will have to state that Donald J. Trump was our most dangerous and national interests damaging president by far ... if they are honest. As many who have ever read my Trump postings here know, I feel Trump is one sick puppy mentally. Truly, seriously. A real life Dr. Strangelove nut case. One who somehow gained the power of the presidency ( through the 1% power and influence mostly ) and we are just damn lucky he didn't bring the whole show down on top of us. It's hard for Americans to accept nation and society hurting realities that they are responsible for enabling through their voting of their creation. Those Americans who voted for Nixon in 1968 and in a landslide way 1972 mainly because they believed he and his cohorts were the "Law & Order" candidates and party and who then discovered Nixon and his team were so corrupted they all ( 25! ) ended up in prison ( Nixon got a pass from his buddy Ford ) should have realized how truly ignorant they were about such things. McGovern had more honest law respecting and abiding integrity and moral values in his little finger that Nixon and his entire criminal gang altogether. Yet, through deviously crafted and massively broadcast media propaganda, tens of millions of Americans were duped into believing the Nixon "Law and Order" candidate lie. You'd think they would have learned from that duping. That they would realize they put this crook in office! Same with Trump and his followers. No matter how much amoral, immoral and even criminal action facts are provenly revealed about their anger ranting, nation dividing leader and his character, they still back him. And they can't see how they are responsible for his presidential power and nation dividing and damaging actions. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice ... shame on me?

I would think that Bill O'Reilly and Roger Stone did some pretty liberal "borrowing" in their simplistic JFK books although I haven't read either except for a few published excerpts. So often, this practice is done by just rewording certain aspects of other people's research. "Reclaiming History" also seems to have many such passages from what parts of it I have read. Bugliosi's most original work in RH is his 500 times repeated phrases of JFK conspiracy believers as kooks, nuts, whackos, loons, fruit cakes, buffs, etc. He is at least creative in coming up with so many different derogatory and scary social outcast terms for conspiracy believers. RH is a virtual dictionary for derogatory conspiracy believer names and terms. O'Reilly made at least 1 million dollars for his JFK book. Bugliosi probably as much. Stone probably half a mil. All off other researcher's hard work backs. Heck, so many here could ( and have ) easily write better and true original research JFK books but without those well promoted celebrity names, they wouldn't even get published.

Can you summarize the film "Let There Be Light?"

Really interesting and informative re-post entry here Chuck. As always, great stuff from Jim Di. Clicking on the last footnote link ( 40 ) you find a treasure trove of other illuminating and informative links.

And what of the New Orleans police booking officer who claimed Clay Shaw stated the name Clem Bertrand when asked about aliases? The officer who the Clay Shaw trial judge refused to allow as a prosecution witness?

I have viewed a few Clint Hill interview videos where he would disingenuously dissipate and downplay questions from his interview audiences asking about high building "open window" and roof top security neglect along the Dallas motorcade by stating excuses for this such as ... they ( the SS one assumes ) just didn't have the manpower to check or man them all. Or it was more the responsibility of other agencies. Those answers made me cringe. I wished I could have been in the audiences of these Hill interviews and had the opportunity to press him on his simplistic and illogical explanation for this security failure. Weren't both the Miami and Chicago trips changed to avoid or cut short JFK's drive underneath high buildings? Was the SS so removed from receiving shared information of such threat scenarios from the Chicago and Miami PD in this regards? And even as a 12 year old, I wondered how only unsuspecting, untrained and unequipped ( no binoculars ) bystanders on the sidewalks beneath the Texas School Book Depository could clearly spot a man (or men) with rifles in an open window there from several minutes before JFK's arrival and not one trained security person was ever assigned such a simple task as scanning these open windows both before and during JFK's drive just underneath them? And why were no security men assigned to the large security risk camouflaged area all along and behind the pergola and picket fence area on the lower Elm street location? And what about the second greatest JFK related security failure by the Dallas PD in creating the perfect scenario where an unchecked crazy strip joint operator could get into that press corps circus and just inches from Lee Harvey Oswald to then blow out his guts in the midst of 75 to 90 police personnel and in front of tens of millions of live TV viewers across America? Guess it's all explainable as simple but well intentioned "inexperience?"