Joe Bauer

Exactly.

Didn't Ruby have many incidents where he worked over loud, drunk and disorderly patrons so roughly the cops were called? Ruby carried brass knuckles. Once had a part of one pinky bit off in a hand-to-hand fight? Ruby was his own muscle man. Cops remember guys like Ruby. If one wanted to see some action in downtown Dallas at night...one went down to Commerce Street. There were "two" flesh flashing Burlesque houses there. Just two doors down from the Carousel on Commerce was another Burlesque house called the "Colony Club" which was owned by Abe Weinstein. Ruby was extremely jealous of Weinstein. Weinstein's "Deco Cabaret" Colony Club was known as a "classy" place. Ruby's Carousel a "tacky joint." Laughable decor. Cheap champagne and ... pizza? Ha! Even well known JFKA writer Jim Marrs knew of Jack Ruby well before 11/22/1963. As a young college student he once jumped up on stage with a Ruby stripper to engage in some act-a-fool type laugh act. Sure sounds to me like Jack Ruby was somewhat a known cause celebre type character in the seedy Dallas strip joint scene for years.

Throw in the Dallas FBI. Ruby provided big shots with girls? Maybe on occasion out of town visiting ones? I wouldn't doubt one or more of the highest level members of the TEXAS OIL cabal visited the Carousel from time to time. LBJ mistress Madeleine Brown said she went there with others at least on one occasion.

Let's break down Curry's numbers using mostly just common sense to evaluate their credibility. Ruby had been in the dance/bar/strip club business in Dallas since 1947 when he first joined up with his sister, Eva Grant. Ruby regularly advertised ( weekly ) his strip club in the main Dallas newspaper for years. Ruby was known for passing out personal business cards to many people ( perhaps thousands ) for years as well. His Carousel Club was on a main Dallas downtown street, right across from a well known and fairly high end hotel - The Adolphus. Where LBJ himself stayed from time to time. In 16 years, how many calls to the police were made regards any incidents at Ruby's clubs? Where late night, boozed up patrons frequently act out. On top of normal police calls, the vice squad probably had regular or at least semi-regular visits to the Vegas and Carousel clubs as it is always a given that strip joints are fronts for prostitution. And checks on other illicit activities like serving drinks after hours were part of the vice squad regulatory process, no? The reality point here is that how could over half of the Dallas police force "not" know of these clubs ( especially the Carousel ) and who it's owner was especially after 16 years and all the advertising Ruby paid for and promoted for that long period of time. Jack Ruby was his own publicity agent. And a super energetic almost manic one. And don't forget Ruby's well known late night deli sandwich runs that he would hand out to the fellows at the DPD. "I'll take the corned beef on rye Jack." Only 10 officers knew Jack Ruby in that way after all those years? Thousands of people visited the Ruby family owned clubs over those years. From students to the highest economic level social set. So, Curry says his men filled out questionnaires and less than 50 checked they even knew of Jack Ruby? Less than a dozen knew him personally and only 4 ever went to his club socially? Please. Even Dallas DA "Henry Wade" came in for a drink and peek according to former Ruby/Carousel "bar manager" employee Nancy Hamilton. Ruby himself mentioned several Dallas PD officers he knew by name that he saw in the DPD parking basement when he sauntered past Officers Roy Vaughn and Sam Pierce on his way down the ramp, to then position himself just inches behind one of his longest DPD officer friends big William" Blackie" Harrison...and a foot or two to the side of DPD officer Croy. DPD Sergeant Patrick Dean knew Ruby by sight. Even Oswald hand holding DPD officer James Leavelle knew Ruby by sight. Sounds like the DPD building basement was a virtual class re-union event for Ruby knowing DPD personnel the morning of 11/24/1963. Curry's numbers in the press conference event video above are not credible. Just by the common sense factor described. Heck, Roscoe White himself married a gal ( Geneva White ) who either worked briefly for Ruby at the Carousel or at least tried to get hired there as an exotic dancer. So, we can even add ole Roscoe as one of Curry's "dirty dozen" DPD cops who knew Jack Ruby.

Sometimes one's beliefs are shaped, or at least influenced somewhat by what they physically see right in front of them. A close friend my age and whom I knew since elementary school poo-pooed the virus and the shots. He was a Trumper through and through. He was fine through the first year and half. Then about a year ago, he suddenly felt really sick and weak. He had to go to the hospital here locally. He was diagnosed with the virus. He was overweight. He was put on a breathing machine and had a very rough go. He eventually was sent home. Though so weak still his wife and daughter had to care for him. He was given some pills by the hospital when he was discharged with the warning that HE MUST TAKE THEM. He simply refused, again downplaying the warning and trusting his own immune recovery system. The pills were blood thinners. Two or three days after his discharge, his wife found him dead when she woke in the morning. He died from blood clots. My nephew ( again a staunch Trumper and Covid disbeliever ) also got the virus as did his wife. He almost died. Suffered for weeks. He completely changed his views after that. Even quitting posting Pro-Trump messages on Facebook. I know of many, many other similar stories. Close to home ones. No one who got the shots got sick that I know. My wife has had all 4 shots. I have had two. Losing 1 million in this country over a two year period due to the virus doesn't inspire me to doubt the reality that the shots were absolutely necessary and effective in preventing another million deaths...imo anyways.

Yes. Thanks.

George Clooney? Ed Harris?

I agree totally. And yes, before Stone's film "Platoon" were there any anti-Viet Nam films being made? I remember the film "Green Beret" which seemed almost like one big commercial Marine glory recruitment ad. Big John Wayne ( America right or wrong virtuous and Joe McCarthy defending hero who never had to see combat himself ) swaggering about and yelling patriotic slogans to rally and reassure his sometimes doubting underlings. Stones film's in total have had more impact influence in the American societal consciousness than any other film maker in our history...by far.

Just did a quick history study via Wiki ( I know ) of both MSNBC and FOX NEWS. Just from this alone I am now aware of how much I didn't know about the genesis of both of these punditry channels. One of the surprises was the cross/breeding of different political view personalities as MSNBC was struggling to acquire a news/political slant identity to give itself rating weight. MSNBC was always at the bottom of these in the beginning years. Right wing pundits like Laura Ingram, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage and even our newly christened JFKA crusader "Tucker Carlson" were all given their own shows on ... MSNBC ! ??? "Kaplan hired libertarian/conservative Tucker Carlson from CNN to host his own show at 6 pm ET, the political talk show The Situation with Tucker Carlson, which debuted in 2005. The program, which was later renamed simply Tucker, lasted for three years until it was replaced in 2008 by Race to the White House and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue." Just one big dysfunctional family? Who's your daddy?

Truth In Broadcasting MATTERS! Way back when the Viet Nam war was raging, going badly for years and growing anti-war national protests were changing more and more people's minds about it, our 3 main TV news agencies were also reporting the war negatively. Presenting the war protesters view more than our military and 1% . They were showing us My Lai. They were daily reporting American soldier's death numbers. They were showing more and more national figures speaking out against the war. In other "main stream" media venues we were shown the horrific photo of the young, naked and terrified screaming little Vietnamese girl running from the huge fire and smoke plumes of napalm bombs. And the still photo and even video of the Vietnamese General shooting his hand bound VC prisoner point blank in the head. LBJ reportedly said if he lost Walter Cronkite, he would lose the war. Cronkite, Chancellor, Smith, all our most famous TV news reporters were siding with the public in the growing movement to end that mess over there that JFK had presciently stated was a war we should never engage in with massive military involvement. Generally, up into the 1980s most of our big TV media news was considered left leaning. That had to change. The military/ corporate/wealthiest 1% would always say...they lost the war on American television. Hence, Fox News was created with massive funding. By those who owned the massive monies. It's their PR wing. How they got the corporate name Fox "NEWS" past the Federal Trade Commission is beyond me.

Doug Caddy. Watched one of my all-time favorite films again last night while laying in my hospital bed ( more heart problems ) ... All The President's Men. Which character in the film is you? Was the film accurate in most ways? Were you accurately portrayed? Did the "deep throat" character in the film really exist and give Woodword valuable information as much as the film depicts? And was "Deep Throat" really Mark Felt? Did you ever meet William Goldman the scriptwriter? In the film, it was mentioned by more than one character involved with the full breath of covert activities ( one was Donald Segretti ) that the covert action Watergate was just the tip of the iceberg regards the over-all number of illegal activities such as buggings, break ins, planted false stories to damage Democratic party candidates, etc. It was also stated in the film that the whole Republican covert action program involved "everybody." CIA, FBI, DOJ, etc. Inferring some employed with those agencies were helping the covert action teams? True? Did L. Patrick Grey actually burn boxes of sensitive, incriminating documents in his own yard to help the Nixon administration during the investigation?

Is your initial thread post here Gil an excerpt of your book? I have given some thought to writing an article myself presenting the Oswald assassination event in a re-scrutinizing and larger scope contemplation light different than those I have come across with admittedly limited research in this story area to this point. And yes, even as poorly skilled as I am in the writing realm. I just feel a ( one legacy leaving JFK truth passion thing in my life ) compulsion to do something like this for at least three reasons. One being I watched Ruby whacking Oswald on live national TV on the morning of 11/24/1963 as a 12 year old and imo the visceral and psychological effect it had on me would be an interesting young American historical experience sharing and reflection imo. Two: I believe the full truth about Ruby killing Oswald is one of the most important keys to knowing the full truth about the JFKA. Three: I still feel, after 60 years, that Ruby killing Oswald ( and witnessed live by tens of millions of Americans) had a much deeper and harmfully traumatic effect on our society than anyone has adequately captured intellectually. Much more so than we have seriously pondered and considered in our collective societal consciousness. Strip joint owning, police sandwich procuring Jack Ruby destroyed ( in less than 48 hours after JFK ) the only real chance America had in finding out the truth regards the JFKA. That laughably low life weird suspect background fact accompanied by Ruby's provenly false basement access excuse should always beg the highest level suspicion interest ... forever. HE'S BEEN SHOT! HE'S BEEN SHOT! LEE OSWALD HAS BEEN SHOT! The day America lost it's trust in their own government.

Paul, let me posit simply that imo Fox News' mandate since their inception has been to divide and weaken the American progressive working class influence that until Reagan finally finishing blow busted their Worker's Union power, was the greatest adversary to the never ending power and control obsession by the oligarchical minded ruling class ( the 1% if you will) who just like Trump all share the Mary Trump defined mental affliction of wealth, power and control obsession ...TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH." The big Fox News "Wag The Dog" illusion constantly performed to tens of millions of Americans is that the problems of America stem from a power and cultural struggle between the commie/socialist, sexually deviant, lazy welfare sucking, police hating and unpatriotic left and the hard working, religiously righteous, police loving and "our military right or wrong" patriotic right. When the truth is ( imo anyways ) the real power and control war is between the elitist corporate 1% and the rest of us over our wealth. What's that well known American wealth division fact? 1 to 5% of America owns and controls 85% of our national wealth? The 95% rest of America is left to fight over the remaining 15% crumbs? Think about that massively important dynamic American economic "fact." It says it all! We are a society that is more divided economically than any other industrial nation. That fact is our greatest dividing stress. Wake up! And again, it's never enough for these obsessed with more super rich. Fox News and their societal dividing rage feeding propagandists along with their powerful "24/7" broadcasting right wing radio propagandists brethren ( 50 million listeners a day) have performed this dramatic theater play for decades. It's all a psychological warfare charade illusion! Yet, a totally successful one in too many nation dividing ways.

I also once watched and heard Leavelle in an interview ( he did so many over the years and seemed to bask in all the media attention glow the rest of his life) that he ( paraphrasing but close ) couldn't give two hoots about Oswald supposedly killing JFK. It was Oswald's brutal killing of Officer J.D. Tippit ( one of our own ) that ate at his vengeful "Oswald needed killin" thoughts and concerns. Who cares about JFK? ( my take ) Also, Gil, you brought up another point about Curry that just adds to the list of his failed leadership actions and decisions that weekend. He drives LBJ to Air Force 1. Why did he think he should then climb on board and immerse himself into the cramped LBJ swearing in space and crowd and stand there next to an "attaboy winking and smiling " Albert Thomas, knee high head popping Jack Valenti, and a traumatized, blood covered Jackie Kennedy through it all? LBJ had tons of SS security once he was on board AF1. He didn't need Curry once he boarded. The city of Dallas's police force needed Curry. Their general in command right in the heat of battle! The last place Curry should have been was attending ceremonies that had nothing to do with the greatest man hunt urgency in DPD's history ( and U.S. ) to an almost beyond words degree Curry's own forces just lost the President of the United States! Curry surely felt the greatest weight of security failure blame and the most important duty obligation of his entire career in finding the U.S. President's killer? Shouldn't Curry have instantly realized his DPD head place in the minutes and first hours after JFK was hit was to be totally on the ground accessible in the Dallas command center? Like NYC Mayor Judy ( his cross dressing name ) Giuliani during the 911 attack?

"If the average person knew 'HALF' what's really going on in the world they would go into their back yard and kill themselves." 15th hand recounting of a drunken quote by someone supposedly in the know. This following video will blow all of your minds. Doug Caddy...are you there? 1:00:16NOW PLAYING William Pawelec Interview 2007 4K views2 years ago

1:00:16NOW PLAYING William Pawelec Interview 2007 4K views2 years ago Martin Gill High lev

The more you and others keep elevating TC to hero status the more inspired I am to respond with what I consider reality check counter points about him and his propaganda network. I don't see my essays on Fox News as political polemics. I consider Fox News and their lead propagandist a clear and present danger to our entire society. I counter your framing of this JFKA/CIA discussion as a "forward-looking strategic and tactical discussion" with my own take that it is instead a Fox News and TC false story ploy that I feel is a waste of our forum's time. It's all a cynical tease...with nothing more coming out to give it credibility. The JFKA truth mission and the massive work effort researchers have put into this effort deserves better than TC hero worshipping threads like this one...imo.

Fox "they don't believe their own " News's game has always been to present themselves as the voice of the "real" America. The hardworking, decent moral values, God and patriotic America and American military "right or wrong" loving, law and order respecting, wealthiest 1% ruling class know best, anglo-sovereignty protecting America versus ... The socialist welfare sucking, police hating, criminal and commie liberal queer coddling, illegal immigrant wave allowing, unchristian, Anglo-values and unpatriotic America and American military hating coward Democratic party/liberal America. Since their inception decades ago, their 24/7 propagandists ( and those of right wing radio ) have successfully created, promoted, fed and deeply imbued in the minds of their followers, this stark societal division perception to the ultimate "black and white" degree. You are either one of us...or you are one of "them." "Them" being Democrats, liberals, working class vs. wealthiest elite, racial, gender and broad, common good social justice rights and even green planet advocating and less than strict Christian principle following Americans. Whom they have successfully demonized into scary boogie man status in the minds of their followers. This manipulated and even dangerous anger and fear driven society dividing Fox News agenda reality is reflected in the reaction of Americans to such extreme division promoting rhetoric by people in our highest federal legislative bodies. People like Marjorie Taylor Green. Who are openly suggesting we divorce from each other by state and basically advocating a "civil war" mentality among her followers... Fox News followers. MTG also "praises" the January 6th, 2021 Capital building attackers as patriots! And DJT as a "hero" for his backing and encouraging of them...and his 3 1/2 hour hold off of providing aid to the Capital police or calling off his attack dog mob. Half of our society are ardent Fox News believers. They don't see the Marjorie Taylor Greens as an extreme "out there" violence advocating fringe. Fox News has them seeing MTG in a patriotic light. When Fox News reports their own conspiracies ( no matter how whacky ) their followers jump right on in endorsing them. Hillary Clinton runs a child kidnapping sex operation out of a Washington DC pizza parlor. Dominion corporation rigged their voting machines to help cheat Donald Trump out of the presidency. Antifa was the actual planners of the Jan 6th, 2021 Capital building attack, etc. Fox News and TC are playing with the JFKA conspiracy story. Teasing they have some bombshell revelation info and are actually righteous seekers of the truth in that affair. Trump threw out a JFKA conspiracy story himself during his 2016 presidential election primary run where he posited the possibility that his primary rival Raphael Cruz Jr's father Raphael Cruz Sr. can be seen helping Lee Harvey Oswald hand out Pro/Cuba fliers in downtown New Orleans the summer of 1963. Even though the majority of Americans have said they do not accept the Warren Commission report regards the JFKA as the truth or at least the full truth and have done so for 60 years...the MSM and their hugely paid star journalists will never abandon the minority take and view accepting the Warren Report without question. The climb to the top of the multi-million dollar riches MSM television broadcast world is a dog-eat-dog super competitive one. Once there, who in their right mind would give it all up by publicly siding in any way with the little person majority belief in a JFKA conspiracy?

My perspective of TC and Fox " we don't believe our own" News is that they have been an American society damaging force to unprecedented degrees. And for decades. Way, way beyond anything close to "kind of." They have always been much more a propaganda organization than a "news" one. And we so clearly know what part of our society their propagandizing has been funded to promote. Ever since they went on air, they have had one agenda. To divide, anger, incite, scare, demean, demonize, distract, disinform ... one side politically against the other ( divide and conquer as the old saying goes ) to promote and enhance their specific political control group aims. As many here have mentioned, we are hugely divided as a nation. Not just politically and ideologically but economically in unprecedented stressing ways. Viet Nam times divided us greatly as well. But in many ways not as much as today and not as much in basic income and cost of living disparity which may be the most negatively impacting of all. Our young people are so stressed economically. They aren't marrying. They are not having babies. They are not buying their first homes. 4 year college degrees are no longer a ticket to good pay, benefits and opportunity jobs. Millions are saddled with student loans they struggle to pay off. More than any time in my 70 years I have never seen so many of our young people ( tens of millions ) feeling so down, anxious and negatively unexpecting about their future. They are confused and far too many have lost their faith and trust in our institutions for allowing things to get as bad as they are. Fox News and their chief propagandist personalities have been feeding these worries and stresses and fears into our collective societal consciousness for decades now. In a self-serving weaponized way of "blaming them all on their adversaries." The non-elites. The common good liberal commie left. They have been incredibly successful in fulfilling their original mandate of divide and conquer in this way. Fox " they don't believe their own" News and their anger, blame and fear working up barkers are the most cynical collective conscious influence on our society in media form ever. And I believe the January 6th coup attempt was perhaps the greatest internal threat attack on our federal government since the Civil War. A crime of unprecedent importance. To a degree that it's participants should have received much longer prison sentences than they have. With Fox News's constant downplaying of this major crime I see this as just another of their attacks upon and efforts to weaken our Constitutional Democracy foundation and the majority of our citizenry it was created to protect. And...Donald Trump's purposeful withholding security help during this extremely violent traumatizing attack upon our Capital building packed with our entire Congress cowering in life and death fear ( for 3+ hours!) was one of the most outrageously egregious ( criminal ) acts a U.S. President has ever committed. Keeping our entire Congress in serious life and death fear harm's way like that is of the "highest crime" category to an outrageous degree. I believe Trump should receive a stiff prison sentence for that U.S. democracy attack purposeful non-response criminal act. IMO anyways. Fox "they don't believe their own" News poster boy Tucker Carlson downplays and defends all that unprecedented democracy threatening and injuring criminal action, including Trump's purposeful refusal to stop it. On top of his 20 years of nation dividing, elitist control promoting C###, This little sideshow JFKA truth shtick TC has come up with means nothing to me in my overall assessment of him as a long term nation divider for the purpose of enhancing his 1%er mentors power, wealth and control agenda. So...yes...I can't stand the guy. And I seriously believe he is gaming those who are giving him hero status over this JFKA truth revealing crusade he is promoting.

Thank you Mark. For this rational reality check perspective.

Possible.

9/3/63: Hosty gets a hot tip from Donald Kemp that Edward Schwille of Dallas is active with a group similar to the Minutemen - Revill and everyone else are saying no knowledge of them in Dallas. Schwille wrote a letter on 11/26/63 seeking best evidence on Jack Ruby, knew Jack had Jake Ehrlich (note: great criminal attorney who could have won Ruby's case if Belli hadn't moved in w/his mob connections). Schwille, the leader, supplied weapons to Ashland Burchwell in 1962, weapons seized by DPD before Burchwell could leave Dallas for Oxford, MI to join Walker in the fight against Meredith. Burchwell has been working with Felix Botello, former DL-18-S, who used to work with Lowery in the Communist Party and knew (as T-1) that Joe Molina would never join the Communist Party. Molina worked with the American GI Forum, which was also spied on by Lowery and friends. Lowery became chairman of the American GI Forum. Botello and Burchwell said they disagreed w. Minuteman leader Robert DePugh and refuse to align with him and the Minutemen. Hosty knew about the right-wing during the 1962-63 period - as he said in his book - here he is with his superiors saying he really should be checking in again with Felix Botello, DL-18-S (see more about him below), and take the statement of the right-winger Delbert Ray. Penn Jones knew about the Venus Ranch, I believe it was also known as White Gate Farm - Delbert Ray, the Bircher who ran the ranch, was a close associate of Edgar Wesley Seay, another Bircher and an Edwin Walker employee. The police believed that Seay set fire to Penn Jones' newspaper office on 4/30/62 with a gallon of volatile fluid thru the front door The FBI thought that Delbert Ray was implicated in some way. Ray also was a warehouse operator in Dallas. 9/9/63: Hosty's informant is also his close friend, a Republican party activist. Although Hosty claims to be a JFK man and a Democrat, Weisberg found that both he and Revill "were as far to the right as even Dallas permits" (p. 1 of 😎 9/23/63: Bill Lowery was an FBI infiltration agent into the CPUSA. Additionally, he was co-founder of the Dallas chapter of the GI Forum with Joe Molina and others including Felix G. Botello who had also been a security informant against the extreme right (DL T-18-S) and was associated with Ashland Burchall in a Minutemen like group. Burchall had served under Edwin Walker in Germany. The FBI considered Walker an advisor to the Minutemen in Texas. Jerry Shinley: John Stanford and William Lowery had been the subject of wide-spread publicity about two months before the assassination. John Stanford, then a resident of San Antonio, was being investigated by Texas state and Bexar County authorities because of his alleged membership in the Communist party. In July of 1963, U. S. Attorney General Robert Kennedy asked Texas officials to refrain from taking action against Stanford until after the completion of Federal proceedings. (San Antonio Express, p. 5-A) On September 23, 1963, a hearing on Stanford was held before the Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB) in Washington. One of those testifying was William J. Lowery, who revealed that he had been acting as an FBI informant within the Communist Party since 1945. (Dallas Morning News, September 26, 1963, s. 1, p. 1; San Antonio Express, September 24, 1963, p. 1- A) Lowery's testimony that he had infiltrated the American G. I. Forum and other reputable groups created some controversy. An FBI spokesman denied that the FBI had ordered the infiltrations and said Lowery had been following the orders of the Communist Party in joining those groups. (San Antonio Express, September 25, 1963, p. 10-D; September 27, 1963, p. 5-B) In December, state and county officials raided the home of John Stanford and seized many of his papers and belongings. (San Antonio Express, December 28, 163, p. 1-A). Thus, the Dallas Police were suspicious of Molina because he was associated with a man who had been identified as an FBI informant on the front page of a Dallas newspaper. During his testimony before the Warren Commission, Molina attempted to talk about Bill Lowery, but was cut short by Commission counsel, Joseph A. Ball. (6 H 373) Another question of interest in this matter is whether Lee Harvey Oswald might have had any contact with Lowery or Stanford. Also, the publicity Lowery received may have had some influence on later rumors that Oswald was himself an FBI informant. Lowery’s September 1963 testimony before the SACB in Washington spelled the end of his undercover career. But that opened the door for someone else to take over “surveillance” of Molina, the token subversive. Did Oswald do it? Lowery's testimony was that he had infiltrated this and "other groups" on behalf of the FBI. The FBI actually went to press denying it! 10/1/63 Butler had a tape of the "karate guy" who made anti-JFK remarks at an anti-Castro Oct meeting in Farmers Branch. Karate guy spoke there with Martino, Father Machann, Mrs. Trudy Castorr. Tapes created by Irving chiropractors, husband and wife, "Roeder" or "Rowder". (Weisberg files) Trudy Castorr discusses at great length how Butler was also pals with Sylvia Odio and got deep inside information from the whole Dallas Cuban crowd. Trudy Castorr made a point of giving him letters from Lucille Connell about Odio. It turns out Sylvia Odio was the cousin of Marcella Insua, the daughter of Joaquin Insua (informant and the head of Catholic Cuban Relief in Dallas). Weisberg considered Butler and Revill the most important police witnesses. 10/17/63 Jack Revill says on this date William Seymour and Loran Hall passed thru Dallas - Minutemen - and handling narcotics destined to go to Cuba as medical supplies. Early November 1963: Waldo also contacted Mark Lane and informed him that he had discovered that Jack Ruby, J. D. Tippit and Bernard Weismann had a meeting at the Carousel Club eight days before the assassination. Waldo added that he was too scared to publish the story and other information that he had about the assassination. Lane introduced Waldo to Dorothy Kilgallen. Her article on the Tippit, Ruby and Weissman meeting appeared on the front page of the Journal American. (Lee Israel, Kilgallen (1979)) I believe that this information about the meeting at the Carousel Club originally came from Butler. It is possible that it was Butler who provided Dorothy Kilgallen with the information about Jesse Curry's tapes. Sylvia Meagher later claimed that Butler gave contradictory information to the FBI and to the press about Ruby’s past criminal associations and activities. The Dallas Police website had some information on George Butler (for many years he was President of the Dallas Police Association. In fact, the Dallas Police Association headquarters building has been officially named the “George E. Butler Building” in his honor. (I visited it at 9:30 am the last Monday of Nov. 2018 - the reception was hostile just from knocking at the door - then I told them I was a JFK researcher! Definitely worth visiting - you might meet someone more reasonable - just one block from Lorenzo Hotel.) Trudy Castorr says she heard Butler was involved with the Minutemen and with the Cubans within the police dept. Weisberg mentions he thought Butler was involved in a mix-up because the car was not in place - that got Oswald shot by Ruby http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf 11/20/63: Masen arrested, 5 foot 5, 130 pounds, small guy. Strongly sympathetic with Minutemen. 11/21/63: Entire operational plan for the motorcade is conducted in Curry's office. Gannaway, Sawyer (guarded the TSBD), Lumpkin (drove pilot car w/radio communications), SS members Forrest Sorrels and Winston Lawson among the fourteen present. Lawson reduced the # of motorcycles w/President from 4 to 2 on each side. 11/22/63 The official report indicates that homicide officers found the shells in the TSBD - when in fact it was Jerry Hill and/or Luke Mooney. "Lumpkin then instructed Revill to organize his team against the east wall...and make a systematic search...a member of Revill's searching party...found the rifle." 11/22/63: Lowery's shoe store was just west of the Texas Theatre on Jefferson. Did Oswald confuse the Brewer shoestore with Lowery's? Here is a photo of Lowery at his shoe store... Oswald may have been placed in the TSBD to monitor American GI Forum's Joseph Molina to replace Lowery. Molina's home was searched in the middle of the night after the assassination, and he spent most of 11/23 in interrogation at the police station. 11/22/63: Butler saw Ruby on this day in City Hall, but not on Sat or Sun. 11/22/63: Houston Chronicle reported: "Oswald, who had been interviewed by the FBI only six days before [the assassination], became important to the police only after he missed an employee roll call soon afterwards. 'He was the only one who couldn't be accounted for,' Detective Capt. Pat Gannaway said. There was no roll call and many employees could not be accounted for. 11/22/63 Pat Gannaway was the chief of the DPD Special Services Bureau. His subordinate Bill Biggio was directing police intelligence communications at the Fair Park office on 11/22. (source: Earl Golz) Jack Revill, Don Stringfellow, Bill Biggio and all the members of criminal intelligence division reported directly to Gannaway. So did vice and narcotics. Gannaway was a reserve Army Intelligence officer - like many of the DPD officers. The famous report of Harvey Lee Oswald and the employees of the TSBD went from Revill to Gannaway. Ruby would frequent the Special Services Bureau since 1956 to arrange for the city licenses that he needed to operate his nightclubs in Dallas. (pp. 2-3) The source for this information, Mary Hartford, was Gannaway's secretary from 1956-62. Another police chief described Hartford as possibly Ruby's "mistress" because their relationship was so close. Gannaway had the six members of the Indignant White Citizen's Council at the Trade Mart "taken into custody" to prevent them from being assaulted after the killing of JFK. A suit was filed - they lost. For background on Gannaway and the Special Services Bureau, see the Warren Commission testimony of Lieutenant Jack Revill (who became Assistant Chief in 1982) is very revealing in describing the duties and responsibilities of the Special Services Bureau. He stated: "I am currently in charge of the criminal intelligence section." Later he outlined the overall task of the bureau. "Our primary responsibility is to investigate crimes of an organized nature, subversive activities, racial matters, labor racketeering, and to do anything that the chief might desire. We work for the chief of police. I report to a captain who is in charge of the bureau – Captain Gannaway." Lieutenat Revill later indicated that he had been assigned to an investigative panel set up to determine how Jack Ruby had gained access to the City Hall basement where he had shot Oswald. This type of enquiry was obviously also the responsibility of the Special Service Bureau. For a very revealing account of the functions of the CIS, see Philip H. Melanson's article "Dallas Mosaic" published in the Third Decade, vol. 1, no 3, March 1985, pages 12-15. Among other things, Dr. Melanson mentions that " the spooky little unit was physically removed from the rest of the DPD and was headquartered in a building on the state fairgrounds." (Vol. IV HSCA, 597.) The use of the word 'spooky' may or may not be a deliberate clue to something rather sinister. I believe it was located very close to the Women's Building on the State Fairgrounds. 11/22/23 aftermath - Walker identified as a friend of Earl Lively, writer for American Mercury magazine. Walker was saying LHO and Ruby were seen together prior to 11/22 - citizens suspected Walker of involvement in JFK assassination. Again, Ruby and George Butler knew each other from the Kefauver Committee investigation of 1950 - see above. 11/23/63, 2 am: The Dallas police come barging into Joe Molina's home in the middle of the night and have a search warrant for his place. Their leader is Pat Gannaway, Butler's ex-partner. Nothing turns up, but they strongly suggest Molina come to the station the following morning, he complies. 11/23/63: When James Worrell tried to report his observations of the killing on 11/23/63 following Curry's request for witnesses to come forward, Lt Butler fielded Worrell's call. What was Butler doing out at Farmers Branch, it was a small town? I thought he was working juvie, what's he doing here? My bet is that the hottest witness calls went directly to Butler so he could decide how to dispose of them. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38&relPageId=206&search=%22lt._butler%22 An extra bullet was found by a postman below the 6th floor - it was a 30 06 cartridge. WFAA's Bert Shipp wound up with it on 11/23. The bullet was given to George Butler - who wound up giving it back to the TV employee! 11/24/63: Bill Turner alleged that Butler was in charge of the Oswald transfer, was one of the biggest Klan leaders around, and gave the "all clear" to bring him into the basement. Waldo corroborates all of Turner's points in this memo to Weisberg - written from Mexico! Bill Turner was unequivocal that Butler was the man who had the overall responsibility for the transfer of Oswald. Between 10-11 am, Thayer Waldo (in a 12/2/63 FBI interview) said that the reporters were standing outside on Commerce Street when Butler came up to them and told them "Come in." They proceeded to enter where they were checked for weapons. 10:45 am: The reason for the delay in moving Oswald is that they needed to obtain armored vehicles - which didn't arrive until this time. Later, Curry - who was at the Homicide Bureau - and others changed their minds and told Asst Chief Stevenson they had decided to use detective cars to transport LHO, using the armored vehicles as a decoy. 11 am: Lt. Butler's statement - written 11/30/63, says he and several other detectives reported to Captain O.A. Jones, "who stationed the detectives where he wanted them". Chief Batchelor, Sgt. Pat Dean and Butler searched the armored car before LHO came down. Dean allegedly told Butler that Batchelor wanted Butler to ride in the armored car with LHO. Jones said Deputy Stevenson summoned him at 11 am and told him to move a few detectives "where needed". He was plainly not in charge. Stevenson said Cecil Tolbert was in charge of patrolmen; Jones (from the bunko squad) was in charge of detectives, and "homicide officers" were in charge of actual transport of LHO. At 11:10 - Detective Roy Lowery states that Butler was cleaning out the armored car, with a group of officers around him. See the KRLD raw footage at around 8:00. At 11:15, Stevenson met Lumpkin on the third floor elevator, and told him of the change in plans on the way to the basement. On arrival in the basement, Stevenson told Batchelor and Jones. Fort Worth Telegram journalist Thayer Waldo said that the morning of 11/24, he never saw anyone trembling like Butler. Waldo wrote in a long letter that he was stunned when Patrick Dean was introduced to the Ruby jury as the officer in charge of security at the jail that morning, rather than Butler. Butler was busy on 11/24/63. On 24th November, 1963, Jesse Curry decided to transfer Lee Harvey Oswald to the county jail. The undocumented story is that Will Fritz placed Butler in immediate charge of the transfer. Despite his role in the transfer of Oswald to the county jail and his long term relationship with Ruby, Butler was not interviewed by the Warren Commission. Butler is listed as #13 in this schematic diagram of the police basement, but portions appear missing, see this legible copy of the diagram of the Dallas police basement at p. 43 - pp. 44-46 has the same list of officers. In his testimony to the commission, Thayer Waldo of the Fort Worth Star Telegram, claimed that during the transfer Butler "was an extremely nervous man, so nervous that when I was standing asking him a question after I had entered the ramp and gotten down to the basement area, just moments before Oswald was brought down, he was standing profile to me and I noticed his lips trembling as he listened and waited for my answer. It was simply a physical characteristic. I had by then spent enough time talking to this man so that it struck me as something totally out of character." Two detectives - R. L. Lowery and W.J. Cutchshaw - provided statements that three men were pushing the WBAP tv camera from the basement lobby to the basement - see the KRLD raw footage at 10:10 to see the giant camera - Lowery said that the camera was never plugged in and the camera cap was never taken off - both detectives agreed that only two men tried to leave with it and had no good story about the missing third man. The detectives believed the third man was Ruby, and that's how he got in. The WBAP men were apparently David Timmons and John Alexander - never questioned by the Warren Commission. (See attached clip below from Lowery's report.) Other officers claimed these detectives' findings were "unfounded". Jimmie Turner, the director at WBAP, claimed to be the third man, and was the man chosen to testify to the WC, and changed Alexander to "John Tankersley". Timmons was forced to change his story, but Tankersley contradicted Turner by saying the third man was possibly a detective - he couldn't recognize his boss, Turner?! It may be that they couldn't keep their story straight, but managed to skate anyway. According to Harold Weisberg, Butler prematurely gave the signal to bring out Oswald. Bill Turner and Penn Jones described Butler as high up in the Klan. Even an FBI memo describes him as way to the right. Butler was also pals with Sylvia Odio and the whole Dallas Cuban crowd. Weisberg wrote that if Butler had waited, the auto would have been parked and blocked the area where Ruby broke through to point his pistol at Oswald. Butler is quoted as saying in those final seconds: "He'll never make it to the street." As you can see in the youtube video starting at 1:41, Fritz is eight feet in front of Oswald. The story goes that Ruby emerged from the crowd with detective Blackie Harrison and reserve sergeant Kenneth Croy were his blocking fullbacks. The WC questioned Croy very closely - this is the guy who "found Oswald's wallet" from an unidentified bystander at the Tippit crime scene, and never reported it to anyone for forty years. This meant that Oswald was exposed to an assault similar to what happened when the Secret Service told the patrolmen not to flank JFK on their motorcycles. Meanwhile, the officers were blinded by the burst of television lights when Oswald came on the scene. I wonder if Fritz actually made a gesture for Ruby to make his move? The pickup car was so close to position that within seconds of Ruby firing the shot, the car tapped Ruby right in the butt! You can see it on the video. The difficulty in verifying these photos show how little video there really is on the Oswald shooting... From John Armstrong, who is asking for review of the photos below: After reading Croy's testimony, I am convinced that Croy was most likely the person who allowed Ruby to gain entrance to the basement so that he could kill HARVEY Oswald. Please, I urge everyone to read Croy's Warren Commission testimony and draw your own conclusions. Here is an excerpt of that testimony: This YouTube/CNN video, less than a minute long, shows Kenneth Croy in a white hat and police uniform standing next to Ruby in police headquarters just a second or two before Oswald appears. Croy is the rightmost figure in the shot immediately below, which was taken at the 12-second mark of the video. Note how Croy seems to stand back from the action as Ruby shoots Oswald. Ruby can be seen in the video standing next to reporters in the middle image. It is clear that Ruby did not "run by me [Croy] at a pretty good clip." Ruby did not run through the reporters "like a fullback went through a line." John Armstrong makes these IDs - I am unsure about Croy, and the Ruby figure has a fedora and a prominent nose but an oddly-cut sideburn pointing to 2 o'clock. (We can see Ruby's prominent nose but no 2 o'clock sideburn.) On December 1, 1963, Croy gave an affidavit in which he said, "I saw a man running into the crowd in a crouch. At that moment I reached for this individual and touched his coat tail attempting to stop him. I saw him run right up to Oswald ...." Once again Croy was lying. As can be seen from numerous film clips of the shooting, Croy did not "reach for this individual" nor did he "touch his coat tail attempting to stop him." Warren Commission attorney Burt Griffin had reviewed films of the shooting and knew Croy was not telling the truth. Butler is the crucial link between the Dallas Police Dept and the Dallas Cubans and their friends (the Castorrs, the Odios, Connell, etc.; see this lengthy Harold Weisberg interview with the Castorrs) He was pals with all of them. Jan Stevens' story on Butler and Fritz is a good analysis and highly worth reading - it jibes with my review of the videotape. He also points out Fritz's lack of a reaction to the shot - that they are trained to react - and that anyone with a brain in their head would have used a human shield to protect LHO. The pistol holster found at Ruby's home was "musty and moldy, for a snub-nose". (p. 45 of 49) Passes for the Carousel Club included No. 227 for Dallas police officer Ray Hawkins (p. 26 of 96) But the DPD 1/9/64 report about these passes does not include Hawkins' name! The negative template at work. (pages 37-40 of 96) The 11/24/63 FBI report does have Hawkins' name. But it doesn't have the names of Dallas deputy sheriff Buddy Walthers, or Records Building deputy Travis Hall, both of whom are important. The list of cards (see p. 37 of 96) names Deputy sheriff Buddy Walthers (number 167) and Travis Hall, a county clerk deputy at the Records Bldg (number 207) but their actual cards cannot be found either in the xeroxed cards (pp. 15-30 of 96) or in the 11/24/63 FBI report! Walthers was the critical source for the 3126 Harlandale House of Cubans. Travis Hall, described by the FBI as a "cashier" - was given his card by Jack Ruby at the County Records Building on 11/19/63, after seeing Jack at the Records Building earlier that month. A list of Carousel members obtained on 11/28/63 from Monte Timmons also omits the names of Hawkins - but "deputy Hall" and "deputy Walthers" are on there! Capt. Westbrook wound up sending the card and a note to Chief Curry on 12/12/63 where Hawkins said he had not yet received the card - the problem is that Hawkins signed the card, so he had certainly received it! Hawkins was the biggest problem. Corporal Ray Hawkins was in the area as officers were dispatched to look for the suspect who shot Officer Tippit. Corporal Hawkins responded and drove by 10th and Patton then converged on the Texas Theater when information came out that the suspect may have entered the theater. Corporal Hawkins and his cover squads met a witness at the back door of the Texas Theater. Upon entering, they conducted a row-by-row search. As officers neared Oswald, he jumped up and pulled out a pistol. Officers subdued Oswald after a struggle. Corporal Ray Hawkins went down in history as the officer who handcuffed Lee Harvey Oswald. 11/25/63 Gannaway's records list Ruby as a "sex deviate". 11/27/63 Gannaway is told by Chicago PD that Jack Ruby is Not the Jack Rubenstein in the HUAC records (this is the 1947 document referring to Jack Rubenstein as part of the staff of Richard Nixon) (p. 3 of 96) 11/27/63 Seth Kantor reported Curry was quietly conducting a probe of 50 detectives and uniformed officers to see if one or more of them aided Ruby. On 9th December, 1963, Jack Revill wrote to Jesse Curry claiming that Butler: "related that he had information that Lee Harvey Oswald was the illegitimate son of Jack Ruby. Lieutenant Butler further stated that he had information that Jack Ruby had applied for a visa to Mexico about the same time that Lee Harvey Oswald visited that country. He suggested that we contact the Mexican Consul to confirm this information." 12/9/63: FBI report says Butler told them someone must have pressured Curry to bring out the prisoner while the news media was there - wouldn't say who. This story, run in the 12/15/63 Oklahoman, states that "Butler cannot be found"...That was simply not true - it was three weeks after the assassination - but Butler may have been lying low about that time and getting his ducks in a row. . Our indices indicate Earl Lively, Jr., probably is identical to Earl William Lively, Jr. In 1962, Office of Special Investigations, Air Force (OSI), furnished us information that Lively was a member of the Air National Guard and at that time was a student of the Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama. He was investigated by OSI since a national agency check revealed he was a subscriber to “The Worker” and the “Midweek Worker,” both communist publications. Individuals interviewed by OSI reported Lively was extremely anticommunist and as being extremely rightist in his political views. They reported in their opinion Lively subscribed to communist publications only to obtain background information on the Communist Party line. They also reported Lively extremely anti-Fidel Castro. OBSERVATIONS: In view of the serious allegation that Lt. Butler of the Dallas Police Department is involved in scheme to furnish FBI data to Earl Lively, Jr., desirable we have SAC, Dallas personally discuss this allegation with the head of the Dallas Police Department and impress upon him the undesirability of Lt. Butler being involved with such a scheme as alleged by our source. Inasmuch as Lowery has testified for the Government before the Subversive Activities Control Board, and is no longer a security informant, we will not jeopardize an important informant situation by discussing his allegation with the head of the Dallas Police Department. ACTION: Attached is a teletype to SAC, Dallas, instructing the SAC, Dallas, to personally contact the head of Dallas Police Department and alert him to the information furnished by Lowery and impress upon him the undesirability of individuals in his department divulging to unauthorized individuals data furnished the Dallas Police Department by the FBI. We are also instructing SAC, Dallas, to request the that the head of the Dallas Police Department determine whether Lt. George Butler of the Dallas Police Department is involved in a scheme to furnish FBI data to Lively as alleged by Lowery. 1/22/64 Former Security informant to Dallas office of FBI is redacted - this is a reference to Lowery, who is talking with Butler - Butler is "allegedly involved in scheme to furnish FBI data to DLPD and to Earl Lively, Jr." Told Shanklin to speak to Curry to determine if Butler's involvement in scheme is "true". 1/22/64: Butler was suspected by the Dallas FBI of being involved with a scheme involving the Oswald file by January 1964, and was described as being "pretty far right" by Curry - Curry assured that Fritz had custody of the Oswald file under lock and key, but that he would speak to Butler. Amazing deep research and posting effort. Mind blowing in it's wide scope coverage with much valid documentation. Thank you for this.

Bump.

Totally agree with your views expressed in the lower paragraph. However, regards your willingness to hold hands with Attila The Hun if he opened up the JFKA files; What if all the files that had any deep and real JFKA truth revealing info just don't exist? What if they've long ago been removed and destroyed? What if the bombshell story TC has been teasing you all with turns out to be nothing more than ... a nothing burger! And in a reasonably fair expectant time frame ( perhaps by the JFK 60th anniversary date?) nothing has been discovered and revealed? At what point in time would those here who are now hoping TC may be the coming JFKA Knight In Shining Armor truth crusader/savior and praising his newly independent high moral courage to the point of downplaying and kind of forgiving his career long Fox News indiscretions, like reporting stories that he knows aren't true just to save ratings, obsessively demonizing the Democratic party populist working class and constantly angering and working up Trump's base and over-all just widening the growing "civil war" mentality divide in our society ... admit their foolish gullibility in doing so? If something earth shaking were to come forth regards TC's teasing JFKA truth proclamations ( and not two years from now ) I will be the first to admit I was wrong about my mistrust of TC to the degree I have, which is total. Time will tell I guess. The truth shall set you free. If you allow it to.

RFK Jr.? Haven't read the article yet regards Malcomb X's daughter's lawsuit. On another JFK related note however, couldn't Lee Harvey Oswald's surviving family members -Marina, her two children, his mother and brother- have sued the DPD for their gross negligence in the murder of him ( an untried suspect only ) right inside their own building while in their protective custody? The security failure of the DPD resulted in the worst case negligence scenario imaginable. And couldn't Oswald's surviving family members also have sued the estate of Jack Ruby? I know...the world was so enraged at Lee Harvey Oswald from what they had read and been told by the authorities ( "This case is cinched"-Will Fritz. " Is a man that had laid his plan carefully ( regarding Oswald )...and carried it out." Henry Wade, on the evening of 11/23/1963 ) and the press that no jury would have ruled in favor of an Oswald family survivors lawsuit anyway.