Joe Bauer

Right on Jim Di. Demographically and economically things were so different in the 1950's and early sixties. We had poverty, yet we also had a huge and thriving middle class with the cost of basics including food, gas, rent, home prices, college, medical care etc. reasonable enough that middle class workers could afford these. The American dream was being realized. Young people getting started and starting families had much to be hopeful about. Unions were strong. At their peak. Many ( not all of course ) American workers were seeing benefits like never before. 10's of millions of good American jobs hadn't been shipped out to 3rd world countries so the owners/stock holders of these companies could make a cheap labor killing in profits they couldn't believe themselves. We were a working class respecting and protecting nation. I think most Americans were just happy to be working and being able to afford ( even with manual labor jobs ) not just the basics but American Dream extras. The word and label "Liberal" hadn't yet been demonized by massive 24/7 right wing radio and Fox News propaganda and taken hold in the mainstream lexicon. The aggressive efforts of black Americans for more equal rights and benefits started in the late 50's and was steam rolling by the 60's. This movement was polarizing no doubt with white America for the reasons we all know. JFK was becoming the object of raging hate and anger by 10's of millions of Americans who felt threatened by the aggressive black movement and felt JFK was sympathetic to it. Forward to 2,000 and beyond. The cost of living along with millions of lost benefited jobs, unchecked immigration with 50 million from Central America flooding in, extreme far right demagoguery taking hold of half our country, along with many other factors ( social correctness ) has totally polarized us. So called Christian organizations with tens of millions of followers have accepted this new extreme far right wing ideology. Liberals/democrats are agents of the devil. The Corona virus has stressed us to degrees beyond anything we ever imagined. Where do we go from here?

So Oswald said he didn't bring anything with him that morning except a paper bag lunch? Would he have thrown this onto the back seat as he got in Frazier's car? No curtain rods were ever found in the TXSBD building? It's getting harder to deny both Frazier's basic accounts imo. There was a brown paper wrapped object larger that a sack lunch put in the back seat of BF's car that morning.

Mind blowing. Republican integrity. We've owed $50,000 for years. Can barely just make the interest payments.

Laughable but disturbingly very close to reality! Extremely disturbing.

In my original post I provided a link to Mark Shaw's talk to the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco. If you watch this Shaw speaking video I would imagine you would agree that he was quite engaging. Animated but not too so. His reverence for Dorothy Kilgallen seemed sincere and I was impressed with how he successfully summarized her life and accomplishments to the full remarkable achievement and courageous integrity degree that they deserved. His talk was not long. He kept it rather short. But it was packed with interesting facts and tid-bits that brought the DK story to life. His audience was all older, retired folk. They seemed enthralled and alert and at the end like a swayed jury believing of his summation. Shaw even had them chanting in unison with him "Justice for Dorothy Kilgallen" at the end of his presentation! I have watched and listened to many JFK related event speakers over the years. Half just were not very good. After 45 minutes you would be fighting back yawns. If any of them had given their talk to the Commonwealth Club instead of Shaw that day my guess is half the audience would have had their heads knocked back with jaws hanging open and eyes closed with loud snoring going on after 30 minutes. Obviously Shaw got most of his information from the earlier article James Di. cites. And he certainly doesn't give enough credit to the authors I admit. The most compelling part of Shaw's presentation was the video taped interviews of Dorothy Kilgallen's 2 long time employed hair and make up guys. Clearly DK was very close to them. The first one was a great eyewitness. He was "the first person" to come upon Dorothy after her death. He got a long and close up look at her and the entire death scene. What he described told it all imo. And those two fellows didn't have some nefarious and self-enriching reasons to share what they were told by DK and what they saw when she was found dead. Their interview statements were convincingly credible imo. How the NYPD could let DK's death case go uninvestigated after talking to these two guys (one a first on the scene eyewitness! ) smacks of the darkest motive suspicion. Look, I think all of us know and believe DK was murdered. The injustice of no justice for Dorothy Kilgallen is made more profound in the total 57 year long apathy of America to her remarkable achievement life and her JFK/Jack Ruby investigation related murder ... imo anyways. And Melvin Belli sure does sound like he was mobbed up back then , no?

Agree.

Ha!

Good XXXXX are almost always quick, sharp and clever. And pathologically bent. IMO Frazier was not sophisticated enough or pathological enough to be a good and consistent xxxx. Frazier's oft told tale of Captain Will Fritz ordering him to sign a document that Frazier worried might implicate him, and Fritz's red faced rage when he refused including raising his hand or fist to strike Frazier and Frazier's warning statement back to Fritz...that if Fritz tried to hit him " we's gonna have one hell of a fight!" endeared me to Frazier. That took guts! And Fritz backed down! Many have labeled Frazier as a slow witted country bumpkin. Regardless, I think he had more integrity than many so-called highfalutin' educated folk.

What ever happened to the Trump appointed head of the CIA? Is she still in charge? If so, wouldn't it have been prudent for Biden to have placed his own person in that incredibly important and influential position? Excuse my ignorance if Biden has already done so.

Peter Janney's credentials sure seem impressive. To me anyway. I'd like to engage more regards Janney and his book after some better research. FWIW ... I've never met and known anyone who is a jazz lover/aficionado to be anything but well read, honest and mentally healthy and grounded. The Mary Meyer murder reads like a classic professional hit. Her daily habits and comings and goings are studied. The perfect place to hit her is not at or inside her home. It would be in a lightly traversed public place with no eyewitness close by. Plant a mentally addled dupe nearby with a weak alibi and who just happens to have a criminal record no matter how benign. There would be spotters in key locations. Another unfortunate woman who knew too much. To me her death is really sad. Shot twice. Pain beyond words to the point of passing out. Left crumpled up on a no-one-around path to die alone. She never hurt anybody outside of her dumped husband. A truly evil act.

Yes, it is CB. Haven't spent very much time on the 9/11 event. However, are the stories about one of the Bush sons being involved with building security and leaving this connection just days before 9/11 true? And a few other stories such as major stock sell offs just days before? Or calls to certain Twin Tower office occupants to stay home that day? What about the massive gold deposits located in the basement of one of the towers? And most troubling, specific intel warnings of Saudis with known nefarious backgrounds training to fly the big planes are ignored? 9/11 was one of the most successful outrage and fearful emotion triggering events ever in it's instant nationwide lightings of nationalistic anti-Iraq fervor to a point of tens of thousands of worked up young men immediately running down to join the military to defend our homeland. Millions of Americans hoisting stars and stripes flags everywhere. Until that day many Americans were ambivalent to noticeable degrees about the Bush. Cheney, Rumsfield message that we needed to engage the WMD/Hussein threat all out. After 9/11 I think even Bush and team were stunned at how much of the entire nation became a blind rage, flag flying "do whatever it takes" Hussein avenging, Iraq invading cheering crowd. Bush's favorability ratings shot through the roof in just days! Patriotism 1st priority everywhere.

Shaw's Marilyn Monroe take is not something I agree with. One can find credibility issues with Shaw regards M.M. I admit. Still, as I have mentioned many times off-and-on however, I will always feel the Dorothy Kilgallen suspicious death story ( coupled with her amazingly accomplished, highest celebrity connected world life ) is one of the most illogically wasted and ignored Hollywood A-list movie themes in the last 50 years. A film of her life alone, even without her Jack Ruby investigation and laughably staged suicide, would have been remarkably attractive and marketable imo. Hundreds of films have been made about people of less accomplishment and less celebrity than Dorothy Kilgallen. And none of them had the end of life intrigue of DK. She's nearing "blowing the case wide open" regards her investigation into perhaps the greatest murder crime in America's history ... and just before she does...she dies in bed, oddly dressed, made up, sitting up, reading an upside down book, with the air conditioning in her room turned to full blast mode in cool November and with no note expressing regret that she is leaving her sincerely beloved children and especially her young son without a mother....PLEASE! And top off this laughably suspicious scene with Kilgallen's closest confident friend Ms. Smith dying the next day? And DK's Ruby investigation files immediately disappearing? Why the grandly illogical ignoring and burying of this magnificently qualified Hollywood A-List film story of one of our most well known celebrities of her day? And for over 50 years? Just another typically suspect and contrived part of the JFK/Oswald/Ruby affair ... no?

HAAAA!

Wonder what this Scott Esk has to say about J. Edgar Hoover, Eleanor Roosevelt, thousands of Catholic church priests, British WWII hero Alan Turing, thousands of past and present Hollywood stars (including Perry Mason himself ), Mathew Sheppard and on and on and on?

Says it all.

Agree.

My apologies but could you clarify your point here? Are you upset that anyone would mention the Dulles brothers being Christian as if doing so taints other Christians? No argument here. Just a little confused. My take on JFK was he was a liberal in line with his Irish Catholic upbringing roots. Despite his individual family's great wealth...I am sure JFK knew that the cultural history of Irish Catholics was one of great faith yet almost always combined with great poverty. People raised in poor cultures generally are more liberal in their identity with and sympathy for other poor peoples. I grew up with many Irish Catholic families right here on the California Coast in the 1950's and 60's. They all seemed to have 10 kids each! And it seemed to me they were always struggling with basic need bills, especially food. I was so close to these families I was often at their homes sharing the cheapest white bread, meatless spaghetti and powdered milk meals. We were as poor and even more so at times. 7 boys with no father and dependent on county welfare. Our mom just didn't like organized religion so she didn't make us go to church...although she always said she believed in Jesus Christ and his general teachings of right and wrong. I still have this same religious view. In my assessment, there seemed to be much, much more to JFK besides any liberal leanings he may have had. He was a tough cookie in so many other areas of political, social, economic and military beliefs that were conservative if he had to be. One thing I have always noticed about JFK was his tough character when he was confronted by other power groups and individuals who felt they could intimidate him when they felt he wasn't going along with their agendas. JFK stood up to such groups and men as LeMay, Dulles, Hoover, Texas Oil, General Walker, Southern governors you name it. Firing Dulles and Cabell? Firing Walker? I am sure JFK got this toughness from his father. A ruthless son-of-a-gun when he wanted something bad enough. There is a telephone call audio tape of JFK personally ripping into an Air Force officer who stupidly put out a press release which in some way depicted a perception of indulgent spending on JFK's part regards some furniture purchases? JFK was livid! He told the mumbling officer he just blew the entire Air Force budget with his silly stupid actions. To me this tape revealed JFK had a red hot temper at times that was not to be messed with, even by those highest power people who opposed him and his agendas versus their own. Fired and vindictive Allen Dulles on JFK ..."he thought he was a little God." For what it's worth.

Bingo.

" If the average American knew half of what's really going on in the world, they'd probably go into their backyards and kill themselves." Quote related 12th handedly to me by a now deceased friend. Remember my own "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind" film type scene event I've related here on the forum before? It was in late August or very early September, 1997. A Friday night. Our house was lit up at 2: AM by the brightest light I have ever seen. It awakened me and I had to shield my eyes from this cold blue white light which flooded through our windows and was coming in from just above our home on it's street fronting side. The light reminded me of a welders torch in it's color and intensity. Or maybe an arch on a high voltage powerline? But, those lights always flicker. This was a steady non-wavering light. It was present three or four straight minutes or more. In Pebble Beach. Calif. there were no street lights. The homes there are nestled in a thick pine tree forest. No side walks. You are literally in the middle of a forest. You can't believe how dark it is at night there. After two or more minutes, this light was still so bright it awakened my wife in her own bedroom next to mine just by it's intensity coming in "under" her windowless room shut door! My room door was open to the upper hallway windows that faced the source of the light. As soon as I heard my awakened wife say "What is that light?" and as she got up and started to turn the door knob to open it, the light simply stopped! We started to talk about the strange light and soon realized our electricity was off. Clock radios and their lights, refrigerator stopped humming. Light switches didn't work. My wife and I then sat on her bed in curious and bewildered silence. All of a sudden a few minutes later our electricity blinked back on! Clock radio lights blinking, refrigerator humming. Our phone worked so we called the Pebble Beach company security gate a mile away and asked them if they saw any strange lights or had their electricity interrupted in the last 10 or 15 minutes and they said they saw no unusual lights and their electricity was never interrupted. Tired, we went back to bed. The next morning as my wife was making breakfast and I was reading the newspaper downstairs ( all the bedrooms were upstairs ) we heard our 12 year old boy slowly walking down the stairs and into our area and he moaned..."Ooohh man...I had the worst nose bleed of my life last night." We looked up and my wife screamed! The front of our son's T-shirt was covered in dried blood! As was his face underneath his nose. We ran upstairs and his pillow was also blood soaked. The scary thing was he hadn't ever had a nose bleed before! And this one happened after the eye hurting bright light flooded the inside of our home at 2:AM! Note: I did not get out of bed to look for the source of light until my wife awoke and it blinked off. The first minute or two I was simply groggy and wondering if I was dreaming. I was also confused and in an amazed state of wonder. The last two minutes...I must admit I was afraid! Kind of cowardly I know.

One thing I have learned in all my years of studying the JFK event is it is more logical to first assume the more conspiratorial viewpoint regards anything remotely suspicious with most all the main nefarious characters involved. Versus first assuming the typical mundane, coincidental and so-called normal viewpoint in such areas as their deaths. Especially the New Orleans ones. What a crazy mix of the most eccentric and strange weirdos. So many of them led secretive covert lives. From the most extreme view political activities to their personal and sexual orientation ones. That whole scene of New Orleans back in those days reads like a surreal madcap theater of the absurd! With dozens of different eccentric character acts all going on at the same time. Portly New Orleans jive talking attorney Dean Andrews chasing down dead beat clients like Lee Harvey Oswald, taking on a half dozen "gay boys" jail house bail outs at a time, getting paid by the "Big Enchilata" ( Clay Bertrand ) for doing so and tipsily dancing by himself in Jazz hoppin' Bourbon Street clubs at night. Shady CIA connected aristocrat Clay Shaw hitting the seedy night club scene himself and signaling prospective paramours with pinky finger waves of invite. No body hair David Ferry running a rat lab, leading recruits at a secret anti-Castro guerrilla training ground, hypnotizing young men for who knows what purpose, working part time for Carlos Marcello and maybe even paranoid commie chasing ring leader Guy Banister. Guy Banister ... Oh Boy! Smacking anyone around with his big 357 magnum revolver who triggers his hot headed temper. Don't EVER call him "DARLING." Sleeping with his equally worked up secretary Delphine Roberts. Jack Martin. Poor Jack Martin. A burned out, coffee addicted fly on the wall part time Banister investigative agency case worker whose face beat the hell out of Banister's big hand gun. Marcello's people doing all the things mob people do. New Orleans was his personal fiefdom. Orest Pena and his Habana Club. Oh yeah! A rough, stinking, clap board drunken brawling pro-Castro/anti-Castro seamen intrigue version of the Casablanca film's "Ricks Place." Agent DeBruey's getting informant info from Pena for years. Judyth Vary Baker chasing around. Working for the sinister Alton Ochsner and kindly Dr. Mary Sherman one day, doing secretarial work at Reilly's coffee company and even flipping burgers the next? Getting it on with Lee and even visiting mad scientist David Ferry's apartment and meeting "Sparky" there? Fights on downtown city streets in broad daylight between Lee and Carlos Bringuier. Jada doing her thing there before Jack Ruby stole her for his Carousel Club. Agency people running around. Hot headed Cuban ex-pats running around. "Green Giant" Jim Garrison ( one of my heroes ) and his crew running around. Shrimp gumbo, jazz, Mardi Gras madness ... all going on in a place generally considered a relatively corrupt, sinful, dirty, run down and large poverty class American city. Both Ferry and Bannister are found naked in death? Both connected to extremely dangerous and powerful people and activities. Both with knowledge that would knock the socks off any truly honest JFK and Oswald investigation. And in my opinion...the fact that old Guy Banister could take on two or three young punks and hold his own on that City bus just weeks before his naked body is discovered doesn't fit the bad heart scenario ... as well as Banister's libido keeping a much younger hot momma Delphine Roberts content.

Astounding claim.

I agree.

HA! Great observation.

I disagree regards these two points. I was 12 when JFK was taken out. Just a kid, but let me tell you I had never seen anything in my young life that stopped, stunned and shocked "everyone" in the world around me ( a small town one I admit ) as much as the JFK assassination and 2 days later the killing of the main suspect right inside the Dallas Police Department building basement. Weeks ( even months ) of 24/7 main stream news coverage. The JFK killing was a dark grey cloud pall that hung over everything this entire time. No one seemed to have any clear idea of how to even discuss the JFK murder. However, when sleazy strip joint owner Ruby blasted a hole in the main and only suspect Oswald's gut on live national TV with tens of millions of Americans watching, and in the most improbable location security breakdown imaginable , I can remember everyone expressing one main thought and feeling...suspicion. Half the adult population of this country couldn't help but feel this. It was rational to do so considering the impossibly illogical Oswald security breakdown circumstances. I didn't hear anyone expressing suspicion immediately after JFK killing, but after Oswald's for sure. I believe millions of Americans felt an uncomfortable and even unsettling twinge of suspicion also by seeing LBJ step into the presidency by the virtue only of JFK's murder. Texas good ole boy LBJ was the antithesis of JFK in so many ways. The JFK killing ( and equally the Oswald one) was the first real birth of serious widespread government mistrust in my opinion. This was expressed and fed by a huge wave of JFK conspiracy books and articles that were immediately published nation wide. Yet, people had to get on with their daily lives. Even thoughts of suspicion and mistrust ( although not totally abandoned ) fade. However, with other nation rocking events like the murders of MLK and RFK taking place just 5 years later, I truly believe the average American sensed that "all three assassinations together" of the most popular and influential anti-establishment political and social leaders of that era were more than coincidental. That nefarious forces in our nation with immense power ( including inside our own government ) had to be involved. That suspicion and mistrust was deep and widespread more than our history books related imo. I cite the huge success of Oliver Stone's film "JFK" as proof of that proposition. 30 years "after" 11,22,1963, tens of millions of Americans ( especially those who lived through JFK's assassination ) came out in droves to see that film because they still harbored and were still connected to it's suggestive premise that there was something very suspicious and nefarious about the JFK and OSWALD killings, and not being able to confidently dismiss the possibility that forces inside our own government were involved. The fact that every national polling ( hundreds ) since 1963 regards the "lone gunman " findings of the Warren Commission shows a majority of Americans "still" not believing or accepting that finding ( 60 years later!) is my strongest argument point affirming the reality of true and continuous serious mistrust of our government in this major way. And that it all started with the JFK and Oswald killings.

I've mentioned the following idea many times in the forum over the last few years. Facial and body identification technology has been advanced 200 fold in the last 30 years. It's actually scary to know that in many totalitarian and dictatorial run societies they have this advanced technology and use it regularly and in a wide scale public way to stifle dissent. No place to hide for those who may be opposed to such regimes. Public protest demonstrations are out of the question for them. With that...there is the technology now to take new looks at several suspicious character pictures of the Dealey Plaza street crowd scene on 11,22,1963 and have a decent chance of determining whether they are truly some of the "Usual Suspects" many have suggested in the past. General "Ed Lansdale" as the crooked hand suited man walking by the three tramps in front of the side of the Texas Schoolbook Depository building. And "Rip Roberston" standing in front of the TXSBD entrance area watching as JFK's limo drives by. And who knows what other nefarious characters such as Johnny Roselli, David Morales, Joseph Milteer, etc.