John Butler

Gil, Thanks for this info. I didn't know there was bushes around the TSBD. Trees, yes. That made me wonder about the location. That would be important for shooting from one side of the TSBD or another (east vs west). Weitzman said a number of interesting things. One (from an internet video) thing he said was that he found two Cuban men waiting in his home. This induced fear with the knowledge that strange things had happened to JFKA witnesses. It is a possible reason he changed his testimony concerning the 7.65mm Mauser. Other sources claim he was a knowing participant in the assassination. His job was to "discover" the rifle. All in all, Weitzman is an interesting character.

Denny, The handlers of Lee and Harvey. I've come to believe that neither man was there, but an imposter according to the description of Oswald and the personnel at Bolton Ford not identifying Oswald (Harvey) from his photo. That says it was either Lee or an imposter. Lee and Harvey description is fairly close. They could get away with posing as each other to most people. Some folks could see through it. The story of Harvey and Lee goes back to their childhood. The photos of Lee Harvey Oswald are not the same child. And, below the photos of Lee Harvey Oswald are not the same man. Nearly all of the photos of the real Lee Harvey Oswald were merged with the double man Harvey. One of the ways to determine whose who is match facial features. I think I have arranged noses with the appropriate person. Lee Oswald's nose is broad and triangular in appearance. You can see that also in the child photo above named Lee. On the other hand Harvey's nose was long and slender. You can see this in the child photo and later the adult below. I can already hear the howls of that's just light reflection or maybe it's just the camera angle. Save you comments fellows I'm not going to listen to them. My "lying eyes" tell me they are different.

Joe, Across the street is the Old Court House. It has an upper floor or deck which people can come out on and look at parades that go down Main. I have always thought this would be the best place for "elite" viewers of the assassination. I would think people working the JFKA would be on the streets or in court rooms of the New Court House. But, in some of the films (don't remember which) either Muchmore or Hughes you get a look at this area. The man in the photo is tall, but I don't think he is the same height as Gerry Hemming. I just noticed in the Altgens photo there is a lovely lady photographing the p. limo. I wander where her film went and why we haven't heard anything about her and her film or photographs? This is not a lone incident of ignoring a photographer and not seeing her film.

John, These folks would have you believe that the Harvey and Lee story is a minority position. When in actually, the minority view, the Warren Commission, or what I call the official story, is the minority view. And, has been for decades. I don't know how many people believe the Harvey and Lee story is credible. That's not important. What is true is important regardless of the popular opinion. But, it explains best the various anomalies provided in the official story and in part is based from WC findings. One of the things these other folk keep harping about is school records and attendance. I know a little about school records and attendance. Attendance is one of the most reviewed and scrutinized record keeping in any school or district. These type of records are reviewed at the school level, County Board level, and lastly at the state level. Errors or any suspicious thought of an error are investigated thoroughly. Why? It is because money is involved. I don't know about other states, but all do about the same thing. In KY the school and district is given money based on the daily attendance of a student. All in all each student, is looked at and determined if they are a legitimate student. Schools receive money based on the accuracy of their records on attendance. The idea of a student's attendance (whether they were there or not or whether they are misidentified) being wrong is unbelievable. And, that in particular an error could survive for half a year. If such were so, it would be of the rarest occurance.

Simply look at the film that Paschall had. I call it the Giant Jackie film. Her version shown on the internet and other places gives very little specific information about anything. It has been edited and reduced by alterations to a non-factual piece of information. She shows in her film, as Elsie Dorman did, parts of the motorcade route (Main and Houston) that the feds did not want shown. Things like the alteration of films and photos concerning Houston Street and Main Street lead to the suspicion that some witnesses are correct when they say that shooting occurred on Main or Houston Street. I didn't know that someone (Barrett) had possession of the film. So, the notion that the film was locked away safely in a safe is bogus. I always thought the FBI or some other fed agency black bagged the lawyer's safe to get the film and then alter it.

Benjamin, I believe you are right. The info on the net about him said nothing about owning a gun store. But, I believe Roger Craig said he did. And, that is what I thought all the time. Most men of that era had some experience with guns either from hunting or serving in the military.

Steve, Seymour Weitz said at that "second". Meaning, I take it as immediately. If you look at the Altgens photo there is only 3 or 4 steps to be around the corner and looking down Houston. Now, to the question is the man in the Altgens photo Lucien Conein? I think not based on the following: Another person that was suggested was Gerry Hemming: Hemming is closer in appearance to the man that I think is Weitzman. But, except for height I see little resemblance. The thing about the witnesses that say something different from what was the official story is that somewhere in their testimony there will be statements that make you doubt what is being said is credible. The idea of speeding on Houston Street is foreign to most folks studying the assassination. Either the witness was confused or the WC interrogators confused them and what was later written as their testimony was changed by the WC folk or in the FBI in prior testimony the witnesses had to agree to.

As some of you might know, I have been working on a particular Dealey Plaza problem for some time. This problem involves witnesses who saw or heard something different than the official story. Gil Jesus mentioned Weitzman in his recent post and I did a quick look up on Weitzman and ran across this at Spartacus Educational: “(1) Seymour Weitzman, interviewed by Joe Ball on behalf of the Warren Commission on 1st April, 1964. Joe Ball: On November 22, 1963, around noon, where were you? Seymour Weitzman: I was standing on the corner of Main and Houston. Joe Ball: Did you see the President's car pass? Seymour Weitzman: Yes, sir; we did. We watched the President pass and we turned and started back to the courthouse when we heard the shots. Joe Ball: You say you turned and were starting back to the courthouse - what courthouse and what is the location of that courthouse? Seymour Weitzman: Sitting on Main, Houston, Record and so forth. We were at the back side and we turned around and were going into the Main Street entrance. We made maybe three or four steps when we heard what we thought at that time was either a rifle shot or a firecracker, I mean at that second. Joe Ball: How many shots did you hear? Seymour Weitzman: Three distinct shots. Joe Ball: How were they spaced? Seymour Weitzman: First one, then the second two seemed to be simultaneously. Joe Ball: You mean the first and then there was a pause? Seymour Weitzman: There was a little period in between the second and third shot. Joe Ball: What was the longest, between the first and second or the second and third shot; which had the longest time lapse in there? Seymour Weitzman: Between the first and second shot. Joe Ball: What did you do then? Seymour Weitzman: I immediately ran toward the President's car. Of course, it was speeding away and somebody said the shots or the firecrackers, whatever it was at that time, we still didn't know the President was shot, came from the wall. I immediately scaled that wall. Joe Ball: What is the location of that wall? Seymour Weitzman: It would be between the railroad overpass and I can't remember the name of that little street that runs off Elm; it's cater-corner - the section there between the - what do you call it - the monument section...” The question here is did Weitzman hear shooting on Houston Street? He said he was standing on the corner of Main and Houston Street. The p. limo passes and he turns and walks 3 or 4 steps toward the entrance and then hears shots or firecrackers as most people say. First off his location is uncertain. He said he was at the back side of the Court House. I think he either misspoke here or didn’t state his position correctly. He may have meant the backside of the Court House as the Main Street side. He originally said he was standing on the corner of Main and Houston. This statement can be verified. Here is a montage showing photos of Seymour Weitzman and a man in the Altgen photo who looks remarkably like him: That Altgens photo 4 in the lower portion of the montage shows the p.limo turning the corner at Main and Houston. I believe this photo shows Seymour Weitzman and his location at the corner of the new Court House. I believe Weitzman is calling the Main Street side of the Court House the back side. He is standing with several other known witnesses. Jim Featherstone and the Babushka Lady are visible in the photo. Only this lady is not the alleged Babushka Lady seen Elm Street. One other problem, I believe this person identified by the red arrow has been identified as some one else. To me, this is Seymour Weitzman. He said the p. limo passed him and he walked 3 or 4 steps towards the Main Street entrance of the Court House and then he heard shots. 3 or 4 steps would indicate the p. limo was still on Main Street. Shooting on Main Street?? Would someone help with this problem?

Could you provide more information or some source that mentioned this 7.65mm Mauser shell in the bushes at the TSBD? I'm interested in the location of the bushes. South facing: east side of the TSBD or west Side. Or, perhaps the north face? East face? West face? Sorry, to ask the question seeing that 2007 is a long time ago. But, Thanks anyway.

John, Absolutely. I agree. I stand corrected on the choice of the word argument. Good point. Perhaps statements might be a better way to say that.

Yes. Although hyperbole may not be the best word to describe the wordage. When considered in context, perhaps ad hominem may be better.

I would like to give a big THANK YOU to James Gordon for giving a warning to Jonathan Cohen. I think Jeremy Bojczuk should not be neglected and be included in this warning. The above quote is of a similar vein as many other postings of his which include this type of writing that is insulting to other fellow members. That is why I do not respond to Jeremy or Jonathan posts when they concern me. It is a waste of time when you receive this type of argument.

Jim, Do you what JB is talking about? A 6 foot 3 Oswald?

While looking for the speed of the Mark Bell camera I ran across this. It should be helpful for those who wish to look at camera speeds of the various Dealey Plaza films. It has info on each. www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics_9.htm Editor problems here. I can't get this to open as a hyperlink. It seems the only option is to select the site, right click and then click Go to....

Jim, That info is neat. The FBI airtel just verifies DeSlatte was involved with the truck incident at Bolton Ford. Although, I have reservations since Carlos Bringuier is involved. The first doc just raises more questions. The Oswald person is described as sickly and very pale as if he came form Iceland. Or, perhaps Russia? That bit feeds my speculations, but what does that prove. Not much. People in NO would be tanned and still somewhat that way even in the winter months, I would think. Some fellow noticeably pale would stick out as a sore thumb. Again this feeds my speculations, but once again where's the beef.

Andrej, This is one of the many incidents in the story of Harvey and Lee that identifies a Harvey and Lee. Lee Harvey Oswald (the original) was in the Marines in the Japan for a part of the year 1957, and for all of 1958. He was at the Naval Base at Atsugi, Japan. In the early part of 1957, Lee Harvey Oswald (the original) was in California and then later he was at training bases in Florida and Tennessee until the end of August 1957. Then he was assigned overseas duty to Atsugi, Japan. Lee Harvey Oswald (Harvey) was also trained at these radar and aircraft bases. Then he drops out of the US Marine Corps record. By August 1958 Harvey appears at Antioch College. By October, 1957 he is back in New Orleans living at the Senator Hotel and working at Pfisterers Dental Lab. He doesn't re-enter US Marine Corps records until September, 1958. Nowhere does it say this, but Harvey Oswald was AWOL from the Marine Corps. Maybe he was off with the US Army taking the two training courses he said he did with the army. There is a note in David Joseph's timeline that says that on Septermber 14, 1958 he was escorted under guard to a naval ship in Yokusuka, Japan. This was with a group of marines that were totally unfamiliar with Lee Harvey Oswald (the original). Eventually this ship went to Taiwan. Harvey was not in Taiwan long, perhaps as few days as a week. Then he was back in Japan at another Naval Base, Iwakuni which is 400 miles from Atsugi, Japan. he was not there long either. He returns to the US at about the same time as Lee Harvey Oswald (the original). This doesn't make sense to me. This indicates Ruth Paine was really not in the loop on Oswald in New Orleans and Oswald at Atsugi, Japan. This says that Oswald (Harvey) was set in front of her to find in late 1956 and Lee Oswald was not because he was in California working in aircraft maintenance and repair. This is according to the Sgt. Rannsberger info. Maybe this is just need to know info for various agents.

Does this answer your question? It's a question I have often wondered. But, for this particular incident this answers your quesiton.

WASP. I haven't heard that term in ages. It's more of a 60s and 70s term of bigotry. It defines a whole group of people as the wrong people regardless of whether they are or not.

Calvin, That article helps define my suspicions that Kennedy was assassinated by the heads of the major departments of the Executive Branch of government and even perhaps LBJ. Each of the action arms of the Executive Branch must have had involvement to assassinate Kennedy and then later coverup their involvement. It is the way I read all the strange reports like many admirals and generals running the show at Kennedy's autopsy.

The Bolton Ford Incident from Harvey and Lee site: The following information identifies a Lee Oswald and Joseph More as two people who wanted to buy 10 trucks. “On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks. Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42 When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald."61-04” And, “Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." This may not describe Harvey. Harvey always kept his hair neatly trimmed and well groomed to hide his receding hairline. This is evident in photos with the exception of photos at the DPD station. Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."” This description fits Harvey Oswald rather than Lee. There are a couple of possibilities here. It was Harvey due to the description. It was not Harvey, but someone else who fit Harvey’s description such as Billy Seymour. Joseph Moore had a Cuban or Latin description. However: The FBI didn't seem interested in Deslatte's tale, especially since Deslatte could not identify a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald an agent showed him on 11/25/63, and he was unable to give a good description of either man to the FBI. He told the Bureau that he remembered the incident because of the organization's name, not the name "Oswald." 8 "Deslatte called the FBI after the President was assassinated and after conferring with Manager Fred Sewell about "those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap."9 “Of course it makes perfect sense that Deslatte didn't think the photograph of Oswald was either "Joseph Moore" or the other man who said he was "Oswald" if the real Oswald was not in New Orleans in 1961 but in the Soviet Union.” Even though this may have been Lee Oswald, or an Oswald double, and Harvey was in Russia, it still raises questions about the two. This event is directly related to the folks that were running the Harvey and Lee team. From another site: JFK Lancer: The Assassination Chronicles Vol. 1, Issue 4 December 1995 The Bolton Ford Dealership Story by Steve N. Bochan “The official documentation on the so-called Bolton Ford Dealership episode contains a little research "gem" in the tenth volume of the HSCA hearings: it is the name of Gerard F. Tujague. Remember this name.” There is also another “gem” with this name mentioned and that is: “W. Guy Banister, ex-FBI man who was once recommended by Hoover while he headed the Chicago FBI Office, was on the Board of Directors for this newly-formed organization.” These two were listed as board members on a newly formed organization called FRIENDS OF DEMOCRATIC CUBA. This organization was formed on January 6, 1961. And, Oswald and Moore made their visit on January 20, 1961 to Bolton Ford. FWIW, I speculate that the Russian Oswald, the Harvey who met Marina, screwed up somehow or another in the US or Russia and demonstrated unreliability. And, by this time it was decided he would be used in a terminal fashion. This doesn’t mean that this was related to the JFKA. That may have developed later. I believe he was to be setup and eliminated due to what he knew about the Oswald Project, Oswalds in New York, Russian defection, the KGB, CIA involvement, and the U2 downed/Eisenhower/Khruschchev summit meeting. He must have displayed some signs of unreliability. I base this on his AWOL in New Orleans in 1958. He could have gone over to the Russians in more than a play acting spy role. The likely cabal of Guy Bannister, Gerald Tujague, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and others would be involved. They knew this Oswald and the other. Lee would eventually be used in the framing of Harvey. Over time this became the JFKA. And, that is speculation based on the reading of the facts presented.

John, Keep up the good work.

That's exactly what this document says. Lee Harvey Oswald discharged in March, 1959. That seems to be a legit FBI doc. If it isn't then that's a piece of disinformation. The records, photos, and any information on Lee Oswald has been suppressed. They have been destroyed or melded with the records and photos of Harvey Oswald from a baby to their adult life. Lets take the Sgt. Rannsberger incident and the Steve Landesburg incident. Rannsberger gives us the notion that PFC Oswald was in California during the fall of 1956 when Harvey Oswald joins the Marines. If I am recalling correctly it took 6 months to become a PFC. Harvey made it in 8 months. Rannsberger clearly gives one the notion that Lee Oswald was in the service before Harvey. This is also backed up by Steve Landesberg saying he was with Oswald in the summer of 1956 at Parris Island NC. Not only was Lee Oswald information removed from the records in California in March, 1959. Information from his early Marine Career in North Carolina and I believe Camp Lejeune in South Carolina was suppressed and hidden. This may have been taken by the ONI, Oswald's first home in intelligence. I'm not to sure of SC since I am working off another computer with out resort to my notes. After Lee Oswald is discharged in March, 1959, he enters a dark hole with very few light spots and disappears. After March the first record of him is the Steenberger testimony given to the HSCA. She said she was on a flight with Lee Harvey Oswald in mid October, 1959. Harvey was already in Finland or Russia by this time. Lee's dark hole has a couple of light spots. According to David Joseph's timeline he appears to have visited a Mrs. Glady Davis in Miami in August 17, 1959. Another is debatable as far as I am concerned. This is the hunting trip with Brother Robert in Sep., 1959. The photo says Feb., 1958. Lee's in Japan at that time. Harvey's in New Orleans AWOL from the Marines working at Pfisterer. There is another reference for Lee Oswald in Oct., 1960. This is a meeting in a safe house in Miami. A Mr. Fithian said he was there and Marita Lorenz said yes to that. The question is which Oswald was that? It is believed to be Lee since Harvey is in Russia. There is no information or description to determine who's who at the safe house. Then there is more darkness until Jan, 1961 when an Oswald visits the Bolton Ford Dealership in New Orleans. I say an Oswald because the description given fits Harvey rather than Lee. Lee Oswald could have been doing things in Russia. There is no proof that he was not there in from Oct., 1959 to Jan, 1961. There is no proof that he was anywhere during that period. He could have been in Russia or some other place. Traveling around Europe sending post cards to his buds as Steve Landesberg (student) said. I do believe If Lee Oswald was there he was switched out before Marina was met in March 1961. Marina describes a Russian speaking Oswald she took to be a Baltic native Russian. I don't think either Lee or Harvey could have fooled the KGB on their language abilities. However, they could have fooled the Russians with their close resemblance. If there was a switch out it went unnoticed. Or did it? Did Marina know both Lee and Harvey in Russia and later in the US. Her price for getting to the US would be to fake a betrayal of the KGB. Was she a double or triple spy. I can hear my critic warming up to this. Just calm down fellas this is mostly speculation. There are facts here. But, the speculation is in how you read them. What I am saying is that more information is needed to nail down some of the questions I have raised about the two Oswalds and where they really were at during this questionable time.

MAY 28, 2021 Letters From Minsk: Lee Harvey Oswald Comes in for the Cold War BY MATTHEW STEVENSON …Researchers have always suspected that conversations within Oswald’s apartment were monitored and recorded by the KGB. These suspicions were confirmed when Normal Mailer published a few of these conversations in his 1995 book, “Oswald’s Tale,” assuming the transcripts are genuine. But it was not until I met Ana Ziger, in 1998, that I realized Mailer had failed to find the answer to the most important question: What language were Oswald and Marina speaking? Where are the original KGB tapes? [Ziger told Armstrong that Oswald struggled to speak Russian.] Ana’s statements clearly conflicted with Marina who said that when she met Oswald (March, 1961) he spoke Russian “with a Baltic accent” and she didn’t realize that he was a foreigner. Clearly, either Ana Ziger or Marina was lying—either Oswald spoke Russian or he didn’t. Marina’s ability to read, write, and speak English fluently before she left Russia is indisputable. After emigrating to the United States she hid her English-speaking ability in order to protect her “cover” as a probable KGB operative. Harvey Oswald did the same thing in Russia by hiding his ability to speak Russian… This is one of the very, very few things I disagree with in the Harvey and Lee story. An Oswald that could not speak the Russian language and an Oswald that spoke Russian fluently with a Baltic accent cannot be reconciled. To me, this indicates both Oswalds were there at one time, perhaps as a replacement or both there at once. I prefer the replacement idea with Lee Oswald being there first with his technical knowledge of the U2 and radar technology. It explains, at least to me, why one Oswald had a great difficulty, and the other had no problems with the Russian language. If one looks closely at the Harvey and Lee facts Lee Oswald is the one who had a great deal of training in aircraft maintenance and repair, radar training, and perhaps training inn radar technology when he visited other bases concerned with radar technology and the U2 just prior to his leaving the Marine Corps in March, 1959. This is months before Harvey leaves the Marine Corps. This extra training could have been acquired at the Nellis Air Force Base. Oswald was sent there in December, 1958 as part of this 30 day leave after service in Japan. This base, also had Area 51 nearby, is where there were many interesting secrets the Russians would have loved to have. He was also sent to Yuma Air Force Station in January, 1959. This was a Cold War Air Force Radar Station first established in 1956 near Yuma, Yuma County, Arizona. This was a STRAC base with advanced radar technology. When Harvey Oswald entered the Marine Corps, PFC Lee Oswald was already working in aircraft maintenance and repair in California. I believe his whole career was about radar and the U2. I do not believe either Harvey or Lee, whichever was first into Russia, could hide anything from the Russian KGB. Chemicals and torture would insure that. Harvey appears to have some training in resisting interrogation. At least this was the opinion of Capt. Fritz who did his interrogation. Lee is an unknown, but whatever spy training Harvey had must have been given to Lee also. IMO, Lee Oswald was sent there as a double agent. One who would actively betray his country for his socialist and communist ideals. It is the only way he could have been accepted by the Russians. He had to have shown a hatred for the US and had important radar secrets to reveal. He could also reveal his training as an operative who had turned against his CIA masters. Lee Oswald was 16 years old when he entered the Marine Corps in 1956. He first tried to enter into the Marines based on a fraudulent document sponsored by this mother, Marquerite. That attempt failed. There must have been success later for him to have a 3-year term and leave the Marines in March, 1959. Could Harvey Oswald have hidden his identity if he was first into the Soviet Union? Likely not. The KGB would have discovered his language ability. More than likely, if Harvey was first, he would have revealed his true identity and training as by a intelligence agency from his childhood immigrant status to the present. His true profession of socialist beliefs would be recognized. Whereas, Lee’s was not. In one of Harvey’s written statements, he said he had no brothers or sisters. He also said he received extra training with the US Army. This varies from Lee’s background and training. It enhances the idea that he may have told all to the Soviets. This is my attempt to provide an explanation for the statement: “Clearly, either Ana Ziger or Marina was lying—either Oswald spoke Russian or he didn’t.”

To lighter matters first. The work cack seems to be a replacement for the Anglo-Saxon version of coitus. I see and hear this used in many places as an expletive. I recently re-watched the HBO series Rome. Great show from 2005-2007. I first heard the word used in that show years ago. The producers were trying to keep the show as historical as possible. So, no christian influences, or later language additions from such as Anglo-Saxon. It is a made up word. And, now to darker matters. I agree with Mae Brussels about Russia, Oswald, and the U2. This article I found explains the matter better than I can: I have come to believe that Lee Oswald’s entire service experience was tailored for a U2 destruction incident. First off, Lee Oswald entered the U. S. Marine Corps earlier than Harvey. When he did that I don’t exactly know, it must have early on when he was 16 years old. This is mostly circumstantial evidence. But, a lot of that can get one convicted in court. From a timeline I did on Oswald in the Marine Corps: “Note: When did Lee Oswald (the original Lee Harvey Oswald) enlist in the Marines? This is important to determine when he became a PFC / E2. There is a problem with this rank in the fall of 1956 at the Marine Corps facility at El Toro, CA. Did he enlist at the same time as Harvey or before? I believe before. There is information at the Harvey and Lee site saying that Lee was discharged in March, 1959. This implies he may have entered the Marines in March, 1956 or not too much later with a 3-year enlistment or he could have obtained a 90 day early out to attend a school, Albert Schweitzer in Switzerland. Projecting forward from March 19, 1959, we have June, 1959. It could be that Lee Oswald entered the Marines in June, 1956 or earlier. This date conflicts with working at Tujaques in 1956. It also conflicts with the next entry stating that Lee Oswald was at Camp LeJeune in the Summer of 1956 with Steven R. Landesberg. If the information about Steven R. Landesberg and Lee Oswald at Camp LeJeune is correct for the Summer of 1956, then Oswald would have to have been in the service 12 weeks earlier. This allows for basic training at one of the two basic training areas. Summer of 1956: Jim Rizzuto (Steven H. Landesberg, the student) said that he met Steve L'eandes (Steven R. Landesberg, the actor) and Lee Oswald in the Marine Corps at Camp Lejune in the summer of 1956. Note: If the information from Jim Rizzuto (Steven H. Landesberg, the student) is correct than the problem with Lee Oswald’s PFC rank in the fall of 1956 is explained by his earlier entry into military service sometime around March, 1956 or slightly later. This is in accord with the 1956 information regarding Harvey and Lee Oswald. Most of that information, particularly the middle and later part of the year, is about Harvey Oswald. The timeline is silent on Lee Oswald. Fall of 1956: According to the Harvey and Lee site: “In the fall of 1956, HARVEY Oswald enrolled at Arlington Heights High School in Ft. Worth and ran into Richard Garrett, who described the event to LIFE Magazine (Feb. 21, 1964 issue): "He walked up to me in the hall at school," said Garrett. "I remember I had to look down to talk to him, and it seemed strange, because he had been the tallest, the dominant member of our group in grammar school. He looked like he was just lost. He was very different from the way I remembered him." Note: Is this one time a change out of Oswalds didn’t quite work? This visit to Arlington Heights High must have been for a short period of time. October 15, 1956: Harvey Oswald asks for Marine Corps enlistment. October 24, 1956: Harvey Oswald enters the United States Marine Corps after his 17th birthday.” And, “October 26, 1956: Harvey Oswald reports for duty in San Diego Marine Corps Recruit Depot for Basic Training. Note: Everyone assumes Lee Oswald is doing something similar, but there is no record of Lee Oswald in basic training at San Diego in October, 1956. Why? There should be some duplication as was seen later at Biloxi, MS. The beginning military record for Lee Oswald is the bit about PFC Oswald and SGT Ransberger at El Toro, CA in the fall of 1956. This note also could indicate that Lee Oswald was beginning his training in understanding aviation electronics. This could indicate his future involved understanding the U2 spy plane.” And, “In the fall of 1956, while HARVEY Oswald and Allen Felde were stationed at San Diego, LEE Oswald was at the Marine Corps Air Facility at El Toro, CA, 10 miles south of Camp Pendleton. It was in El Toro that Sergeant Wallace Ransberger first met Private First Class LEE Oswald, and a year later associated with him at Atsugi, Japan. Ransberger and LEE Oswald were assigned to the same unit and their duties were to furnish repair parts for vehicles and generators. This last line underlined is of importance in understanding what Lee Oswald was doing at Atsugi, Japan in regards to the repair and maintenance staff of the U2 at Atsugi. The radar operators in the Marines at Atsugi lived in the same barracks, Barracks No. 5, as the U2 maintenance and repair crew. They could technically discuss the various aircraft systems of the U2 or any other plane. Lee Oswald was trained to understand aircraft system repair and maintenance.” It would be an easy spy assignment for one living in the same barracks. Hey, let’s get a beer could be said to a repair and maintence man on the U2. And, “Note: In the fall of 1956 PFC Lee Oswald would not be taking Basic Training. By being a PFC/E2 rank, this implies he has been in the service at least 6 months. If one counts backwards from the fall months of September, October, November, or December, 1956, we have a possible enlistment date for Lee Oswald in April, May, June, or July 1956. Harvey Oswald obtained the rank of PFC in eight months.” Note: In the fall of 1956 PFC Lee Oswald would not be taking Basic Training. By being a PFC/E2 rank, this implies he has been in the service at least 6 months. If one counts backwards from the fall months of September, October, November, or December, 1956, we have a possible enlistment date for Lee Oswald in April, May, June, or July 1956. Harvey Oswald obtained the rank of PFC in eight months. The evidence for this is: Lee Oswald’s military rank of PFC/E2 in the fall of 1956. Marine Corps promotion policy is that a time in service date must be past 6 months. This is made evident in the SGT Ransberger PFC statement at El Toro, CA. The Harvey and Lee folks indicate Lee Oswald was discharged from the service in March 19, 1959 possibly to attend school at Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland. He had applied to Albert Schweizer on the same day as his discharge and this may have constituted a 90 day or less early out for school. In early 1957 Sergeant Donald Goodwin was assigned to Camp Pendleton and supervised a group of 20 men in the 5th Marine division, one of whom was radio communicator LEE Oswald, Private 1st class. This matches his radio operator designation on Harvey’s discharge papers further leading to confusion. Harvey was probably still in basic and advanced infantry training when Lee was working in aircraft maintenance. March 18, 1957: Lee Oswald reports to the Naval Air Technical Training Center in Jacksonville, FL. This is for the Marine Corps Aviation Electronics School. Note: A modern day definition is pretty much the same as older ones: The duties of an Aviation Electronics Operator are Aircraft Avionics Technicians, V-22, install, remove, inspect, test, maintain, and repair systems, components, and ancillary equipment of installed Aircraft Communications/Navigation/Electrical Systems to include Deceptive Electronic Countermeasures (DECM) Systems at the OMA level. Note: This type of training would help a potential defector, a government agent, be more acceptable to the spymasters of the Soviet Union. The training and bases where Oswald was trained and stationed all indicate that this was preparation for a defection program based on the knowledge of the U2 program. Defectors had to bring something to the USSR I would guess to show their sincerity. Note: In June, 1957, Lee Oswald has completed two training schools. These are not the two training schools Harvey mentions in his autobiography note after entering the Soviet Union. If this can be believed, the two schools he mentions in this note are during the time he spent with the US Army in Taiwan and the Philippines in late1957. Lee Oswald spent time at Atsugi, Japan in 1j957 and almost all of 1958. Atsugi, Japan was the biggest CIA spy outpost in Asia. Note: Atsugi Naval Base was the most important Marine / Naval base in Japan. It was one of the most secretive bases anywhere in the US military. This includes Area 51 in the US. What went on there is important to understand when considering the setup of a defector to the Soviet Union. This information is provided to combat the ludicrous notion that Lee Oswald did not have any information of value the Soviets would be interested in having. The Atsugi Naval Air Station was the largest and most secret in the Marine Corps. It was responsible for the defense of Central Japan. The Office of Naval Intelligence had a unit stationed there. The Air Force did also. A large CIA operation of about 1,000 people were stationed at Atsugi. They were known as the Joint Technical Advisory Group. Another large CIA operation was the U2 spy plane operation. The maintenance crews for the U2 plane stayed in the same barracks, Barracks 5, as Oswald and the Marine radar operators. Although not conclusive, this could have offered Lee Oswald intimate knowledge of how the U2 worked and was maintained. For someone working in intelligence it would have been an easy task to befriend one or more of the U2 maintenance crew and obtain secret and valuable information. The Defense Nuclear Agency had a unit there called METO. This unit was an atomic bomb assembly unit. It was a very much more than a top-secret operation. Some believe this was the important information that Lee Oswald had to offer the Soviets. Korean village north of the base. One of the strangest things to be found at Atsugi was a Korean village north of the base. Lee Oswald could have had a variety of training in many different areas. When Lee Oswald returned to the US in 1958 he was eventually reassigned to the Marine base El Toro. He first took a 30 day leave which may or may not have been 30 days. December, 1958, pre-Dec. 22: Harvey and Lee mentioned Lee Oswald was assigned for a short period of time in December, 1958 to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, Area 2 (Lake Meade Marine base north of Las Vegas). Lake Mead Base was a storage and transfer area for nuclear weapons which were tested at the Nevada Test Site. This information would have been valuable to the Soviets. And, there were other Nellis complexes were in the area. This may have been for just a couple of days before Dec. 22, 1958 when he returned to the El Toro base. Or, it could have been longer depending on how he spent his leave. Area 51 is part of the Nellis complex and Lee Oswald could have learned detailed information on the U2 there where it was tested. Perhaps things that the ordinary Marine radar operator would not know. In light of the following in January of the next year, Lee Oswald may have been prepped for this journey to Russia with bargaining chips about the U2 and more detailed information on early warning radar systems. Atomic information from Nuclear Testing was also done during this time at the Yucca Flats Atomic Test Range. Also, the following year he visits Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, AZ, an important Marine radar base. It was used by the Air Defense Command as a surveillance radar station. And, then there was the A-12 being tested at that time when Lee Oswald was at Nellis. This was the replacement for the U2. January 23, 1959: Marine Corps records show that Lee Oswald was at Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, AZ Note: Yuma Air Force Station (1956-1963) - A Cold War Air Force Radar Station first established in 1956 near Yuma, Yuma County, Arizona. Named Yuma Air Force Station after the location. Initially assigned a Permanent ID of SM-162, later a Sage ID of Z-162. This base was abandoned in 1963. March 9, 1959: Lee is promoted to Private 1st Class again. Does this match Harvey’s rank which last heard of is PVT. Harvey’s discharge papers say he was a Private. So, Lee is promoted 10 days before he leaves the service, but Harvey isn’t? March 19, 1959: Lee Oswald discharged from the Maines with rank of PFC. March, 1959: From Harvey and Lee: “In the spring of 1959 Major William P Gorsky was the Assistant Provost Marshall at the Marine Corps Air Station at El Toro. According to Gorsky's files LEE Oswald had been arrested for hitch hiking and was discharged from the marines in March, 1959. Once again the FBI and Warren Commission avoided this problem by simply failing to conduct a proper investigation and failing to obtain Oswald's discharge papers from Major Gorsky. Their refusal to investigate LEE Oswald in El Toro, or interview Marines who knew him, is another very important "smoking gun." After LEE Oswald was discharged (March, 1959) he stayed away from the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, but was seen in several locations including Coral Gables, Key West, New Orleans, and Cuba.” Here Lee Oswald goes into the dark and doesn’t reappear until a MATS flight to Germany in mid-October 1959. I do not count his alleged hunting trip with his brother Robert in 1959. This according to the photo was in 1958 while Lee was in Japan. Mid-October, 1959- Steenberber interview- HSCA 1978. Two Oswalds in Europe in 1959. Please excuse all of the strange typing or formatting in this article. I am using Libre Office which I find a bit strange to MS Word and will take a little while to figure this out.

Harvey was a top grade FBI agent until he ran afoul of Hoover. Now, whether that is true or not, Harvey was given the task to interrogate the biggest Soviet spy of the WW2 era. This was the Clever Girl, Elizabeth Bentley who ran 2 or 3 major spy rings during the forties prior to 1945. These rings had many and major player infiltrators in the OSS. One can assume she knew just about everything the OSS knew and reported it to the Soviets. Communist infiltration of the OSS was the major, but unspoken reason, that Truman axed the OSS. I speculate that Harvey was given major OSS secrets by Bentley. And, this was his ticket into the later agencies that were formed into the CIA. And, this is what kept her out of jail. One of these secrets could have been the Oswald Project. Now that is way out on a limb speculation, but would add to the notion that Hoover knew of the Oswald Project and used that knowledge later to collect records in the time directly after the assassination.