John Butler

Thanks Vince Palamara for your excellent and informative presentation, It confirms my thoughts that there is something fishy about Clint Hill. His actions that day are out of the field of actions performed by other SS agents that day. The WC testimony of the Boring / Kennedy story suggests he was part of the cover-up or he allowed himself to be used that way. It has been rumored that Clint Hill and Jackie Kennedy had a secret love affair. Whether that is true or not, Clint Hill may have had special feelings or concerns for Jackie Kennedy that led him to seeing things and taking actions other SS agents did not. His actions were outside the bounds of what other SS agents were doing. Why? Why did he feel the need to take these extra steps that other agents did not? Could it be that he knew about the assassination plot? I don't think he was in on the conspiracy to kill the president. It may be that he figured it out from what was happening that day and events prior to that day. Did he think there would be an assassination attempt somewhere along the motorcade route through Dallas? His actions say that. They also say that he did not know when or where that would happen. When the motorcade slowed down or when the crowd edged into the street is when he ran for the p. limo. It might be that after 4 times he rode at the back of the p. limo he had begin to relax his concerns and did not make any attempts to add further protection for Jackie Kennedy from Market Street on Main Street to Elm Street. And, then what he may have feared happened. I may be wrong in thinking this, but his actions during the course of the motorcade generate suspicions.

Rick, Secret Service agent Jack Ready had the same position and responsibility as Clint Hill on the right side of the SS security vehicle. Hill says this: "Mr. HILL. Between Love Field and Main Street, downtown Dallas, on the right-hand side of the street there were a group of people with a long banner which said, "Please, Mr. President, stop and shake our hands." And the President requested the motorcade to stop, and he beckoned to the people and asked them to come and shake his hand, which they did. Mr. SPECTER. Did the President disembark from his automobile at that time? Mr. HILL. No; he remained in his seat. Mr. SPECTER. At that time what action, if any, did you take? Mr. HILL. I jumped from the followup car and ran up to the left rear portion of the automobile with my back toward Mrs. Kennedy viewing those persons on the left-hand side of the street. Mr. SPECTER. What action was taken by any other Secret Service agent which you observed at that time? Mr. HILL. Special Agent Ready, who was working the forward portion of the right running board, did the same thing, only on the President's side, placed his back toward the car, and viewed the people facing the President. Assistant in Charge Kellerman opened the door of the President's car and stepped out on the street." I don't know of any other actions taken by SS agent Jack Ready other than what is said by Clint Hill. I have the same notions about that you do as to why the SS agents did not react more than what they did. Clint Hill is a different case. I don't count the incident described above as one of his 4 mountings of the rear position on the p. limo. So, this would be a fifth action that he perceived Jackie Kennedy needed his protection. Why did he consider that Jackie Kennedy needed this extra level of protection during the course of the motorcade progress? What was in his mind? Well, there's no way to tell, but his actions are suspicious. Not telling the truth to the Warren Commission Specter about the Agent Goring / Kennedy story also makes him an untrustworthy character in the things he said then and later.

With the help of Chris Davidson this pretty well answers my question: The average human can run 15 mph. The motorcade on average traveled something like 12-15 mph. I would guess an athletic man could mount and dismount from the P. Limo particularly if he was use to doing that as a Secret Service agent would be. It would have been of benefit if the motorcade slowed and was moving less than 12-15 mph for Clint Hill to mount and dismount from the P. Limo. A stop would make that easier. I do not believe the first incident of riding on the P. Limo is the one described as the motorcade stopping for the president to shake hands with the crowd. Hill does not mention taking a position on the vehicle for that incident. If so, Clint may have left the SS vehicle more than 4 times. If all this acceptable then that pretty much answers my question. Many things in the visual record triggers my sense of disbelieve and seeing Clint Hill on the P. Limo at Lamar Street did. I recall that he left the limo earlier on Main Street. These photos plus Clint Hill's WC testimony pretty much clears up this question. It's nice to report on something that has some plausibility in being correct. All in all, Clint Hill dismounted the vehicle somewhere on Main Street between Lamar Street and Market Street. That is a short distance, but not significant in dismounting the P. Limo in that area.

I think this is the relevant portion of Hill's WC testimony: Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any occasion to leave the President's followup car at any time? Mr. HILL. When we finally did reach Main Street, the crowds had built up to a point where they were surging into the street. We had motorcycles running adjacent to both the Presidential automobile and the followup car, as well as in front of the Presidential automobile, and because of the crowds in the street, the President's driver, Special Agent Greer, was running the car more to the left-hand side of the street more than he was to the right to keep the President as far away from the crowd as possible, and because of this the motorcycles on the left-hand side could not get past the crowd and alongside the car, and they were forced to drop back. I jumped from the followup car, ran up and got on top of the rear portion of the Presidential automobile to be close to Mrs. Kennedy in the event that someone attempted to grab her from the crowd or throw something in the car. Mr. SPECTER. When you say the rear portion of the automobile, can you, by referring to Commission Exhibit No. 345, heretofore identified as the President's automobile, specify by penciled "X" where you stood? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir [indicating]. Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe for the record just what area it is back there on which you stood? Mr. HILL. That is a step built into the rear bumper of the automobile, and on top of the rear trunk there is a handguard which you grab for and hang onto when you are standing up. Mr. SPECTER. Are identical objects of those descriptions existing on each side of the President's car? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; they do. Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any other occasion en route from Love Field to downtown Dallas to leave the followup car and mount that portion of the President's car? Mr. HILL. I did the same thing approximately four times. Mr. SPECTER. What are the standard regulations and practices, if any, governing such an action on your pert? Mr. HILL. It is left to the agent's discretion more or less to move to that particular position when he feels that there is a danger to the President; to place himself as close to the President or the First Lady as my ease was, as possible, which I did. Mr. SPECTER. Are those practices specified in any written documents of the Secret Service? Mr. HILL. No; they are not. Mr. SPECTER. Now, had there been any instruction or comment about your performance of that type of a duty with respect to anything that President Kennedy himself had said in the period immediately preceding the trip to Texas? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; there was. The preceding Monday, the President was on a trip in Tampa, Fla., and he requested that the agents not ride on either of those two steps. Mr. SPECTER. And to whom did the President make that request? Mr. HILL. Assistant Special Agent in Charge Boring. Mr. SPECTER. Was Assistant Special Agent in Charge Boring the individual in charge of that trip to Florida? Mr. HILL. He was riding in the Presidential automobile on that trip in Florida, and I presume that he was. I was not along. Mr. SPECTER. Well, on that occasion would he have been in a position comparable to that occupied by Special Agent Kellerman on this trip to Texas? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; the same position. Mr. SPECTER. And Special Agent Boring informed you of that instruction by President Kennedy? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; he did. Mr. SPECTER. Did he make it a point to inform other special agents of that same instruction? Mr. HILL. I believe that he did, sir.

Thanks Corey, I agree. I am somewhat confused by looking at the Jeffries film. I thought that Clint Hill had dismounted from the Limo much earlier than the Jeffries film shows. Thanks Chris, That is an interesting film clip. It shows Clint Hill dismounting from the limo after it turns onto Main Street from Harwood Street, I believe. I was a bit confused by this in comparison to Jeffries, but if you read Clint Hill's WC testimony he said he did that 4 times in concern for Jackie's safety. Is there a version other than a .flv film clip? Say, maybe and mp3 or so? What film is this from? This would be the third time he dismounted from the p. limo? Because of the SS security vehicle being so close this seems it would be a dangerous maneuver to do this while the motorcade was moving as it is in this film. That leaves the question when did he remount for the 4th time and when did he dismount again? I believe the Jeffries film was filmed from S. Lamar Street's Southeast corner. The Amipa film shows the p. limo at Market Street or shortly thereafter with no Hill on the Limo?

At one point Clint Hill was riding on the back of the presidential limousine. Does anyone know when he got off? I think this photo is on Main Street. So, the motorcade stopped and Clint got off and then rode on the Secret Service security vehicle. Does anyone know where this change occurred? Maybe there is a reference to earlier posts?

An interesting document on the subject:

From the internet: 1. The CIA did it. It was the ‘60s. Political tensions were at an extreme. One theory posits that Monroe’s death was ordered by the CIA to get revenge on the Kennedys for the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of Cuba. But why Monroe? As Matthew Smith notes in his 2003 book, Victim: The Secret Tapes of Marilyn Monroe, based on tapes the actress made with her psychiatrist weeks before her death, the CIA likely knew about Monroe’s affair with Robert Kennedy and saw her death as a blow to the Kennedy family. In 2015, the theory picked up again for a hot second after a retired CIA officer reportedly admitted on his deathbed that he had killed Monroe. It turned out to be a hoax, courtesy of a fake news website. 2. Robert F. Kennedy did it. One of the first conspiracy theories to emerge after Monroe’s death was that Robert F. Kennedy had her killed in fear that she would expose their rumored affair and put his political career and image in danger. This was first suggested by Frank A. Capell in The Strange Death of Marilyn Monroe in 1962. Capell, who never received serious backing for his theory, also went on to accuse Monroe, her doctors, and ex-husband, playwright Arthur Miller of being communists. (Capell was an anti-communist activist.) In 1973, Norman Mailer lit more fuel to this claim in his biography of Monroe, before admitting he did not have any hard evidence and that he only made the allegations for book sales. Two years later, rock journalist (and later, crime expert) Anthony Scaduto, who like his predecessors used few to no sources to make his claims, wrote an article detailing how Kennedy had Monroe killed for knowing too much political information and had kept record of it in a secret diary. 3. RFK did it but it was an accident. In his 1985 book, Goddess: The Secret Lives of Marilyn Monroe, Anthony Summers, tabloid journalist (keyword is “tabloid” here) claimed that RFK and his brother-in-law Peter Lawford encouraged Monroe’s drug and alcohol use after she threatened to make her affair with RFK public. Monroe’s death, according to Summers, was an accidental overdose and she died on the way to the hospital, which led to RFK and Lawford staging the death as a suicide. Summers states in his book that then-FBI director J. Edgar Hoover helped with the cover-up. Summers’s theory, while not the strongest of the bunch, is supported by an interview he conducted in 1983 with Monroe’s housekeeper Eunice Murray. According to Summers, there was a moment Murray “said words to the effect of, ‘Oh, why do I have to keep on covering this up?’” When probed further, Murray allegedly said, “Well of course Bobby Kennedy was there, and of course there was an affair with Bobby Kennedy.’” 4. Her doctors did it but it was an accident. In yet another book about Monroe, Donald Spoto suggested in 1993 that Monroe suffered an accidental overdose after lying to her doctors about her medication. With the help of a housekeeper, the doctors staged her death as a suicide, which Spoto claimed was unlikely since Monroe had signed a new movie deal with 20th Century Fox that year and reportedly had intentions to remarry Joe DiMaggio. Spoto sourced police reports and statements given by Monroe’s staff and her publicist, but his theory hasn’t picked up any traction in the years since. 5. Marilyn knew too much about UFOs and was murdered. First, you have to be someone who believes that the U.S. government has long been hiding information about the existence of aliens. Second, you have to believe extraterrestrial conspiracy theorist Dr. Steven Greer’s claim that Monroe had access to information about aliens when she was having a rumored affair with President John F. Kennedy around the time of her death. Greer discusses this in great detail in the 2017 documentary Unacknowledged and suggests Monroe had plans to leak top-secret details about the Roswell crash of 1947, among other things. In an effort to stop the leak and her rumored affairs with both Kennedy brothers, the CIA ordered to have her killed, according to the doc. 6a. The mafia did it. In 1982, private detective Milo Speriglio made the stunning accusation that Monroe had been murdered by labor union leader Jimmy Hoffa and Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana, so the Kennedy family would leave the mafia alone. Speriglio explained his findings in Marilyn Monroe: Murder Cover-Up, citing an individual who worked at the coroner’s office in L.A. and was later accused of stealing from dead bodies. Despite having a weak source, Speriglio’s book led to a reopening of the case. The Los Angeles district attorney found nothing new and Monroe’s cause of death remained on paper a probable suicide by barbiturate poison. 6b. The mafia did it based on orders from the Kennedys. In 2012, biographer Darwin Porter suggested in the book Marilyn at Rainbow’s End that the actress was murdered by mob boss Sam Giancana, who received orders from one of the Kennedy brothers to silence the actress and anything she was going to say about her affair. Believe what you will, but Porter claims five Mafia hitmen entered Monroe’s home and administered a chloroform-soaked washcloth on her face, injected her with barbiturates, and moved her to her bedroom to make the scene look like a suicide. 7. The Murder of Marilyn Monroe: Case Closed3.5 10 5 1 by Jay Margolis, Richard BuskinJay Margolis states that Marilyn Monroe’s death on August 4, 1962 was not a suicide but a murder orchestrated by Bobby Kennedy to silence her as she was about to reveal all the dirty Kennedy family secrets she kept logged in a little red diary. And Bobby did not act alone. He had co-conspirators in her murder - his brother-in-law, actor Peter Lawford, and Marilyn’s psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson who gave the star a fatal injection of pentobarbital to the heart. … I added number 7 since it is not mentioned in the first six. How does one determine which is right or wrong in these competing ideas? Well, one could go with their personal bias. What’s my bias? There needs to be an answer for Robert Kennedy saying he supported the Warren Commission’s conclusions up to the day he died. I choose item 7 as the reason. He was silenced by his activity in the death of Marilyn Monroe. Who was the silencer? Who called him within an hour of the president’s death. J. Edgar Hoover.

Robin, Glad to see that you are back and posting various things. This Paschall frame is absolutely neat. Better than the copy I have. The red arrow points to Dallas Police Officer J. W. Foster on the Triple Underpass. 10 railroad men are nowhere near him. He is not on the railroad bridge. And, they are not either. Great photo / frame. It gives the lie to this:

KIRKUS REVIEW of Crypt 33 Marilyn Monroe Criminologist Speriglio's third book on the Marilyn Monroe question (Marilyn Monroe: Murder Cover-up, 1982; The Marilyn Conspiracy, 1986--neither reviewed), rounding up what's new since 1986. Speriglio makes the hardest case yet that Marilyn was the victim of foul play carried out by a Mafia hit team from Chicago, masterminded by mobster Sam Giancana at the behest of Joseph Kennedy, Sr., and JFK but unbeknownst to Bobby Kennedy. Or? The Murder of Marilyn Monroe: Case Closed by Jay Margolis, Richard BuskinJay Marilyn Monroe’s death on August 4, 1962 was not a suicide but a murder orchestrated by Bobby Kennedy to silence her as she was about to reveal all the dirty Kennedy family secrets she kept logged in a little red diary. And Bobby did not act alone. He had co-conspirators in her murder - his brother-in-law, actor Peter Lawford, and Marilyn’s psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson who gave the star a fatal injection of pentobarbital to the heart. Those are the explosive allegations detailed in a blockbuster new book by writers Jay Margolis, a long-time investigative reporter and Monroe expert, and Richard Buskin, a New York Times bestselling author of 30 non- fiction books. … These are two very different scenarios for the death of Marilyn Monroe. Who is right? Should we believe Peter Lawford’s confession and think that Bobby Kennedy is the villain? Or, John Kennedy and his father, Joseph Kennedy? ‘Bobby Kennedy was determined to shut her up, regardless of the consequences’, Peter Lawford later revealed, according to the authors, feeling wracked with guilt over the star’s murder. ‘It was the craziest thing he ever did – and I was crazy enough to let it happen’. Oh, and then there is this: Norfolk, Virginia | A 78-year old retired officer of the CIA, Normand Hodges, has made a series of astonishing confessions since he was admitted at the Sentara General Hospital on Monday. He claims he committed 37 assassinations for the American government between 1959 and 1972, including the actress and model, Marilyn Monroe. Mr. Hodges, who worked for the CIA for 41 years as an operative with top-level security clearances, claims he was often employed as a hitman by the organization, to assassinate individuals who could represent a threat to the security of the country. Trained as both a sniper and a martial arts expert, Mr. Hodges says he also has significant experience with more unconventional methods of inflicting harm upon others, like poisons and explosives. Mr. Hodges swears he remembers vividly, each of the assassinations he committed for the CIA. He claims that all 37 of the murders he committed on the American soil, were ordered by his commanding officer, Major James “Jimmy” Hayworth. The elderly man claims he committed his assassinations between August 1959 and March 1972, at a time when he says “the CIA had its own agenda“. He says he was part of an operative cell of five members which carried out political assassinations across the country. Most of their victims were political activists, journalists, and union leaders, but he also claims that he killed a few scientists and artists whose ideas represented a threat to the interests of the United States. Mr. Hodges says that Marilyn Monroe remains unique among his victims, as she is the only woman he ever assassinated. He claims he has no regrets, however, as he says that she had become a “threat to the security of the country” and had to be eliminated. “We had evidence that Marilyn Monroe had not only slept with Kennedy, but also with Fidel Castro” claims M. Hodges. ” My commanding officer, Jimmy Hayworth, told me that she had to die, and that it had to look like a suicide or an overdose. I had never killed a woman before, but I obeyed orders… I did it for America! She could have transmitted strategic information to the communists, and we couldn’t allow that! She had to die! I just did what I had to do!”

I just looked on Amazon at Crypt 33 and it doesn't sound much different than earlier books on the murder of Marilyn Monroe. Bought a used copy anyway just to see if there is something different.

Jim, Thanks for your reply. I think you hit the nail on the head with this "But you’re thinking of this as a soldier, not as a spook-in-training. I sincerely doubt that Harvey Oswald was ever listed as AWOL, even briefly. " I liked that and got a good chuckle from it. One of the problems in thinking that way is that there is little evidence to support it. I do to much speculating and generally get kicked around for it. So, I didn't go there in my thinking although it is fairly evident. I have no doubt you are right. The sequence of events, the military history of Harvey Oswald, I listed might be used as a kind of negative evidence. These things should have happened, but there is no record of them. Why? And, that why can raise the question what forces are at work here hiding events. Obviously, your answer is best. A spook in training as versus a Marine getting away with things no one else in the military would. The CIA / ONI are at work in the background controlling events. It makes sense. Training and using children is not an unknown thing in the spy world. Using a double or triple agent, here I mean using two or three people as one identity, is not unknown in the spying business. Project Oswald, IMO, was a defection program from its very beginning. The Soviets were not stupid and would recognize up front a plant (defector). So, that defector must have something to give to the Soviets that they madly wanted. He must have bona fides. What better than knowledge of the most secret military base in Asia, Atsugi, Japan. Intelligence operations, military operations, atomic secrets, just to name a few about Atsugi. Then there is the U2, radar knowledge, and knowledge of other secret bases such as Nellis Air Force base to name just one. Most Harvey and Lee detractors have the notion that Oswald had no knowledge that the Soviets didn't have and any he could have obtained was not that important. That's just nonsense. Aerial intelligence is just fine, but it doesn't tell you everything you might want to know. Lee Oswald was he only American in Minsk. Tourists came through, but they didn't live there. Oswald did. Human intelligence is vital. Hence, the defection program. Back to the U2 and its main problem. The U2 had a short, usable life span. It's only trick was to fly high above Soviet planes and missiles. Eventually, the Soviets would solve that problem and bring it down. Because of this, I think Harvey and Lee were rushed into military service at a young age, Lee at 16 and Harvey at 17 years old. The Russians might shoot a U2 down at any time. An advantage would be lost. When Harvey and possibly Lee returned to the US, probably at different times, the defection program was over. What could the Oswald Project be used for next? Here's what I think. Harvey did something wrong at some point. It may have been his time at the Dental Lab or his incident in Taiwan. Or, he could have screwed up in Russia and became a double agent, the traditional kind. He may have turned there. Or, perhaps his superiors thought Marina had to much of an influence on him. He burned the training camp on Lake Pontchartrain. The FBI closed it down. They may have thought he really was a communist. Some of the values he had were not in tune with his ultra-right bosses. Whatever, he was chosen as the patsy. Compare the CIA sending a plane to pick up Lee Oswald in Dallas that afternoon of the assassination to Harvey's record time capture. If he had done every thing right and was a fair-haired boy to his bosses, I don't think he would have been selected as a patsy for the next project of the Oswald Project.

Jim, Here's something for you to think about. I don't think I'm wrong, but might be. Your opinion is always valued. Harvey Oswald at Atsugi, Japan I have problems with Harvey Oswald being at Atsugi, Japan. According to Harvey and Lee there are several gaps in time when Harvey Oswald is not accounted for. For instance, these are the pertinent events to consider: Sept., 1957: Harvey Oswald leaves Memphis for New Orleans and begins working at the Pfisterer Dental Lab. December, 1957: Harvey and Lee says Harvey is working at the Pfisterer’s Dental Lab. June, 1958: According to Harvey and Lee, it appears that Harvey Oswald and his caretaker/mother left New Orleans sometime in June, 1958. “On July 29, 1958 the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor opened a bank account at the First National Bank of Ft. Worth, and gave her address as 3006 Bristol Road. HARVEY Oswald, who was living with his caretaker/mother, wrote a letter to the dental lab and said that he had a job in Ft. Worth selling shoes. The letter was read aloud to McBride and to the delivery boys by office manager Earl Williamson.” Did Harvey report back to the Marine Corps after this period? His next military appearance is in September. 1958. September 14, 1958: Harvey and his assigned unit sail for the South China Sea. From the above facts we can say Harvey Oswald leaves the Memphis training school for New Orleans and begins working at the Pfisterer Dental Lab in Sept., 1957. According to another entry he is there in December, 1957. And, he is said to have left New Orleans in June, 1958. He is living with his mother in Ft. Worth in July, 1958. In July he writes “a letter to the dental lab and said that he had a job in Ft. Worth selling shoes. The letter was read aloud to McBride and to the delivery boys by office manager Earl Williamson.” The next occurance of Harvey Oswald is on the USS Skagit bound for Taiwan on September 14, 1958. This is according to his shipment orders. You of course realize that because of the way these events are listed Harvey Oswald has gone AWOL from the Marines for about a year. Harvey goes AWOL for about a year. Is he punished for this? There are no records of a Courts Martial, stockade time, but there is a loss of rank. If you recall Harvey Oswald was promoted to PFC in May, 1957. Harvey loses his rank as PFC and shows up in USS Skagit orders for Taiwan as a PVT. This matches Lee’s rank at Atsugi. Note: This is a really strange occurrence. In order to do so Harvey would have to go AWOL from the Marines, come back to the Marines, be punished somehow by Courts Martial, or a battalion or company punishment. He is reduced in rank. When did all this occur? His next appearance as a Marine is September 14, 1958 when Harvey is assigned to go to Taiwan by ship.” This is aboard the USS Skagit in Yokosuka. This raises the question how did he re-enter the Corps and when? Why is there no record of an AWOL and subsequent Courts Martial for Harvey Oswald? How did he get to Japan? How Harvey arrived in Japan and came aboard his ship, the USS Skagit, is a bit murky to say the least. There is a 20 mile difference between Atsugi and Yokosuka, Japan. Lee’s at Atsugi and Harvey’s at Yokosuka. And, IMO, that is as close as they come to each other in Japan according to records. Who knows what events occurred and went unrecorded? It doesn’t make sense to take the risk of having Harvey Oswald, who has just returned to the service, at Atsugi. He could simply report to the Marine/Naval facilities at Yokosuka and board the USS Skagit without risking meeting any of the people who know Lee Oswald at Atsugi by visiting there. This is speculation. Harvey could have been taken under guard from the US to Japan after this unrecorded punishment in the Marine Corps say at Santa Ana or someplace in the Marine Corps. He could have been taken to Atsugi under guard and under guard taken to the USS Skagit. Harvey's AWOL may show his reluctance to play ball in the manner his superiors wanted. Harvey was only in Taiwan for about 6 days. From Sept. 30, to Oct. 5, 1958. It might explain his so-called psychotic episode at guard duty. He may have been seeking a way out of his Marine duty and the plans his superiors had for him, defection to the Soviet Union.

Steve, I'm not sure those guys in your photo look like Marines. They look more like men from the Turkish Brigade in the Korean War. The Turks were a cruel people and were remembered by the Koreans after the Korean War without fondness. I heard many stories about the Turks in 1967 and 1968. Stories of their cruelty and treatment of the Koreans. This was 10 or 15 years after they left Korea. I probably need to look that up, the time the Turks left Korea. However, they could be Marines. In reviewing things for those comments I made earlier, I ran across those kind of photos similar to the one you showed. What you are looking at is soldiers wearing the M-1938 Leggings from WWII and the Korean War. As far as I know these were not worn after the Korean War. So, I guess amend what I said to Jim Hargrove to mid to late 1950s. The system of blousing boots became standard in the Army after the Korean War and replaced this leggings system. In the Marines they simply did without leggings or blousing boots after the Korean War. When I first entered the Army those times describing WWII and the Korean War were called the "old brown boot" Army by the men who served during those times. I served with men who at that time were senior NCOs and had fought in WWII and the Korean War. The WWII guys were old. Really old to us who just entered the Army. They were in their late 30s and early 40s and looked so old to us kids. I remember fondly, one old NCO who claimed to have served in WWII with "Archie" Murphy. Of course, he was referring to Audie Murphy, the most decorated man in WWII. However, they knew the Army and Army stuff from A to Z and you could learn a lot from them if you listened. The Viet Nam war was fought by kids or young men 17 to 26 years old. If you go to the Oswald 201 file and look at the Michael Paine Army photos mixed in with Oswald's photos, you will see what GIs looked liked form 1953 and afterwards to 1963. The Ridgeway cap was standard for the time of 1953 to 1963 and was replaced by the Viet Nam era Army baseball cap. However, by that time, 1953, leggings were out and bloused boots were in.

Yep. That's correct. It appears that sometimes they rolled their trousers up. In this familiar photo look at the way the trousers and boots are worn. Marines did not blouse boots until their regulations changed in 2003. So any photos of the 1950s or 60s should reflect that dress code of unbloused boots. I have no idea why they dressed that way, but they did and nobody in the Army could change that when Marines visited or were stationed at an Army post. Your points on the HSCA are well made. Particularly, Warren Commission Exhibit 918. "Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan, on September 16, 1958. He remained aboard NAS, Atsugi as part of the MAG-11 rear echelon." A bit of naval jargon to confuse the issue and make you think he is on a ship. "remained aboard NAS, Atsugi". Doesn't this suggest a ship. NAS actually is Naval Air Station, Atsugi and not a ship. By saying "remaining aboard" suggests a ship and not a land, Naval Air Station..

Something on the recognition of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean: Below is the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on colour orange in hànzì: 橙色，又稱橘色，為二次顏料色，是红色与黄色的混合，得名于橙的颜色。 Note how most of the Chinese characters are very square and dense. Below is the description of colour orange, employing katakana, hiragana, and kanji, all in the same sentence: オレンジ色は、果物のオレンジの実のような色。また、夕日に染まる茜雲のような色。 As you can see, due to its use of hiragana & katakana, Japanese is slightly more airy and spacious than Chinese. And, Based on how the character appear these two were the only two photos in the 201 file that had writing that might be Chinese. And, these two photos maybe in a Japanese China Town or could be in Taiwan. I think it's probably a China Town in Japan. Whether these are Oswald's or Paine's I don't know. As far as Korean goes: In South Korea, you can still meet hanja—Chinese characters—every once in a while, but the script is quickly becoming obsolete. 주황(Orange)은 색 중 하나이다. 이 색은 빨강과 노랑의 중간색이며. Notice the many circular shapes used in hangul—these are almost non-existent in the other two languages and so make the script easy to recognize. One may not be able to read or understand what is said in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, but one can recognize the various scripts by their appearance.

Jim, Thanks for the reply. It is helpful. I can readily identify Korean writing as versus Japanese and Chinese. Japanese and Chinese look pretty much the same to me. I will try to look up the difference. It will help with some of the Asian street scenes in the 201 file. I don't recall any tents with Asian writing on signs, but will go back and look again. "Also, what does it mean for a soldier to “blouse” his boots?" This is easy to explain, but might take a bit. I will use a photo of Oswald at the rifle range to illustrate later. Basically, every service has requirement regulations on how their personnel should dress in uniform and out of uniform. These are detailed requirements and almost always strictly enforced. In the Army (and after 2003 in the Marines) soldiers wearing their utility uniforms generally known as fatigues have to stick their trouser legs into their boots. It is somewhat hard to keep the trousers inside the boot using this method. So, an alternative method using a large stretchy rubber band (of a sort) to help keep the boot bloused. In this case it simulates tucking your trouser leg into your boot. Here are examples: This is a boot blouser which when put on the inside of a folded upward trouser leg simulates the appearance of sticking your trouser leg into your boot. This particular requirement for the fatigue dress concerning trousers and boots was strictly enforced in the Army and after 2003 in the Marine Corps. In the prior post you can see what Marines of that period looked like. Here's why this photo of Oswald at the a Marine Corps rifle range is a fake. I didn't notice this for years and more than likely most would never notice. The red arrow points to bloused boots. Which was not done in the Marine Corps until 2003. This is a composite photo that might be constructed with the upper half Marine and the lower half Army. And, probably the head of Robert Oswald (that's open to interpretation). When you see bloused boots in the 201 file photos it is a photo of Army personnel and not Marines. I had this lesson beat into me in the Summer of 1967 at Camp Perry, Ohio. I haven't forgotten it. Let me know if this is an insufficient explanation.

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 8:07 PM, John Butler said: "Trump is a traitor and he's going down." In the last 3 years, I have seen nothing in these madcap, fake MSM / Democrat scenarios that would indicate Donald Trump is a traitor or a criminal." Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine in return for a favor -- blame Ukrainians for the 2016 election meddling, and launch phony investigations into Joe Biden and his son. It's a crime to solicit foreign influence in an American election. Has Donald Trump been indicted for a crime? Has he been tried in court? Has he been found guilty of being a traitor or a criminal by a court? Has the House of Representatives brought impeachment articles? Has the Senate tried those imaginary impeachment articles? Has he been removed by the Senate? Until these conditions are met all is sound and fury offering spite and invective and little else.

Jim, In your recent post you said: "In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.” " Did Mr. Armstrong make a copy of the National Archive photos mentioned, and if so, could you maybe take the time and post those if you can obtain copies. One of the things that frustrates me to no end is the mixing of Michael Paine's Army photos and vacation photos into the Oswald photos in the Paine garage. I made what I thought was a huge error on these photos, but going back and looking at the situation further the error may not have big as I thought. A lot of these photos are like this one from Jack Swike: This appears to be an Army compound rather than Marine. Marine Corps personnel were not required to blouse their boots until 2003. These are more than likely Army personnel and not Marines. This might be a photo of Marines on the USS Bexar. I believe this is an Oswald photo and if not the Bexar then some other Naval transport on one of his sea voyages. Notice that their boots are unbloused. This is how Marines looked during that period. I see the same kind of thing in the 201 file photos. Michael Paine was in the combat artillery. In those photos allegedly Paine's I didn't find any involving artillery. And, no aircraft photos that could not be explained by being in Japan or Korea rather than Taiwan. Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not challenging the idea that Harvey Oswald was in Taiwan. There is way to much evidence saying so and as far as I can see the notion of Harvey Oswald not being in Taiwan is not worth the time debating it. What I am doing is trying to get a sense of whose photos, Paine's or Oswald's, are the military ones in the Oswald 201 file photos. I used Swike's photo above because he is one who simply denies that Oswald was in Taiwan or at Iwakuni. In his One Oswald Theory he simply ignores any evidence not found at Atsugi, Japan concerning Oswald. Or, others meld the Taiwan information into Atsugi information to a single timeline of Lee Harvey Oswald in their One Oswald Theories. I'm not impressed by that type of reasoning.

Mark, I agree the figures down the walk do look smaller that they should if that is Bell. Those figures should be closer to Bronson than those figures north of Elm St. But, they look smaller. It could be some sort of camera distortion thing and an illusion. I guess one could count the sections in the structure. It is a shame that no one on the north side of Elm filmed except Zapruder. Or, was allowed to or keep their film.

It seems like I typed the wrong info on that last post: "However, the same or similar scar can be seen on the right volar side of the wrist in this photo. And, this is the problem. There is no such scar described for the right wrist. What is described for the left wrist is the following. Which appears to be a suicide scar also. Why two on one arm?" "Left wrist" should have been left arm. Substitute left arm for left wrist and the sentence makes more sense. The autopsy describes the suicide scar on Oswald's left wrist. The photo of Oswald shows there is another scar on his right wrist that matches the left wrist in description. This scar is not described in the autopsy report. The second left arm scar is described as written above: “Over the medial aspect mid-distal third of the left arm there is a 1 1 / 4 inch vertical scar with cross hatching.” This scar lines up with the medial vein in the lower arm. Sometimes those who are pretending suicide will cut this vein in that fashion in order not to mess up the tendons in their wrist. I mention these scars because I have no real explanation for them other than noting them. The vertical cut scar on the left arm could be from some other thing. But, it is hard to rationalize the cross hatching scars and the vertical scar as anything but a suicide scar from deliberate cutting. The visible scar on Oswald's right wrist could be from some other thing and not possibly related to suicide. But, it is a neat scar cut in a regular manner. Here's something from the internet on suicide and handedness: "Suicide attempts (94.5%) involved the nondominant hand, whereas in accidents, handedness had no effect on injured side, similar to previous findings.%8,,%13 The preponderance of injuries to the nondominant hand in suicide attempts might be due to habitual usage of the dominant hand when using a tool such as a knife, leaving the unoccupied nondominant hand as potential target for cutting. " I've read Coogan before and was not that impressed with his reasoning. I have Swike's book. And, ditto. I was not impressed with his reasoning for a One Oswald theory.

From Wikipedia: The Japanese government bought a large portion of what is today MCAS Iwakuni in 1938, with the view of establishing a naval air station. They commissioned the new base 8 July 1940. When World War II started, the Iwakuni air station was used as a training and defense base. The station housed 96 trainers and 150 Zero fighter planes on the airstrip. In September 1943, a branch of the Etajima Naval Academy was established here, with approximately 1,000 cadets undergoing training in the Basic, Junior and Senior Officer's schools at any one time. American B-29's bombed Iwakuni in May and August 1945, concentrating on the oil refinery and Rail Transport Office or train station areas. The last air raid took place just a day before the war was brought to a close. The first allies to reach Iwakuni at the war's end were a group of U.S. Marines who had signed papers ending the conflict for the Japanese air base. After the end of World War II, various military forces from the United States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand occupied the base and it was repaired by No. 5 Airfield Construction Squadron RAAF. It was designated a Royal Australian Air Force Base in 1948. The Americans first occupied the base in 1950 to use it as a springboard for aircraft heading to the Korean War. In 1952, the base officially became a United States military base.[6] Iwakuni had scheduled international service by private airlines from 1952 to 1964, during which time it had the IATA airport code IWJ. This code was later reassigned to Iwami Airport in neighboring Shimane Prefecture.[ Roughly the same information from the internet: The first allies to reach Iwakuni at the war's end were a group of U.S. Marines who had signed papers ending the conflict for the Japanese air base. After the end of World War II, various military forces from the United States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand occupied the base. It was designated a Royal Australian Air Force Base in 1948. When the Korean Conflict started in 1950, units from the Royal Navy and U.S. Air Force arrived at Iwakuni as U.N. forces. Jets flew daily to support front-line troops in Korea, returning each evening to refuel and rearm. The troop processing center located here throughout the war earned Iwakuni the title “Gateway to Korea.” The U.S. Air Force took command of the station April 1, 1952. During its period of command, the Air Force did much to improve the base's facilities. The U.S. Navy took over the station October 1, 1954. Naval Air Station Iwakuni was greatly enlarged in July 1956 when the 1st MAW moved its headquarters here from Korea. A whole new area was procured on the North side of the station to make room for approximately 2,500 incoming Marines. The Marine Corps first took control of the installation as Marine Corps Air Facility Iwakuni in 1958. The station, which is just over 1,300 acres, was officially designated as MCAS Iwakuni in 1962. Its mission includes support of operations, maintenance and supply of tenant units and ships. … This is general information from the internet on the Marine Corps Air Station at Iwakuni. The bold information might suggest that Harvey Oswald was there only as a passing through GI awaiting assignment to somewhere else. If this speculation is true then he would have been there for only a short period of time as the Corps figured out what to do with a Marine that who allegedly had a psychotic episode in Taiwan. Or, that is what folks are supposed to think. Crossfire by Jim Marrs has good information about Oswald and Iwakuni. I am swinging between Harvey first or Lee first in Russia. Harvey has the suicide marks that relate to the suicide incident in Russia. Who knows about Lee’s suicide scars. Lee was the one who received most of the military secret training and visits to secret military bases which would make one think that Lee was first in Russia. Lee didn’t know Russian and would fool the Russians easier as a defector. As far as I know Harvey was never at Atsugi. But, because of the scars Harvey is the most likely candidate. From the autopsy report: "Over the volar aspect of aspect of the left wrist there is a transverse 1 3 / 4 inch slightly raised white scar. Volar means palm side of the wrist and is not visible in the photo." However, the same or similar scar can be seen on the right volar side of the wrist in this photo. And, this is the problem. There is no such scar described for the right wrist. What is described for the left wrist is the following. Which appears to be a suicide scar also. Why two on one arm? “Over the medial aspect mid-distal third of the left arm there is a 1 1 / 4 inch vertical scar with cross hatching.” Medial aspect means the center or middle part. The mid-distal third of the left arm means the middle of the lower part of the arm. Up from the wrist and down from the elbow. This is the area of the medial forelimb vein found generally only in humans. It is the site of suicide attempts trying to cut this vein in a vertical fashion. And, then horizontally to make sure this vein is cut.

"Trump is a traitor and he's going down." In the last 3 years, I have seen nothing in these madcap, fake MSM / Democrat scenarios that would indicate Donald Trump is a traitor or a criminal.

Should someone go over to the Parker site and then post some of his so-called debunkings. Wait, isn't Parker banned from this site? Could any of his materials be posted here?

Steve Thomas reposted this, This helps with my work on a timeline of military events of the two Oswalds. It helps with the period of time when Lee Oswald returned from the Japan to the US. November 15, 1958: Lee Oswald arrives in San Francisco. November 19, 1958: Lee takes 30 days leave. Note: The entries listed above indicate that Lee Oswald was at this transfer unit for about 4 days. This information is not accurate enough to determine where Lee Oswald was during this period, 16 November, 1958 to 21 December, 1958. December, 1958, pre-Dec. 22: Harvey and Lee mentioned Lee Oswald was assigned for a short period of time in December, 1958 to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, Area 2 (Lake Meade Marine base north of Las Vegas). Lake Mead Base was a storage and transfer area for nuclear weapons which were tested at the Nevada Test Site. This information would have been valuable to the Soviets. And, there were other Nellis complexes were in the area. This may have been for just a couple of days before Dec. 22, 1958 when he returned to the El Toro base. Or, it could have been longer depending on how he spent his leave. The question here might be how was he ordered to report to the Nellis Base, Area 2. Note: Nellis Air Force Base: For the nearby Nellis Air Force Gunnery and Bombing Range named by 18 December 1950, see Nevada Test and Training Range. Area 51 is part of the Nellis complex and Lee Oswald could have learned detailed information on the U2 there where it was tested. Perhaps things that the ordinary Marine radar operator would not know. In light of the following in January of the next year, Lee Oswald may have been prepped for this journey to Russia with bargaining chips about the U2 and more detailed information on early warning radar systems. Atomic information from Nuclear Testing was also done during this time at the Yucca Flats Atomic Test Range. Also, the following year he visits Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, AZ, an important Marine radar base. It was used by the Air Defense Command as a surveillance radar station. And, then there was the A-12 being tested at that time when Lee Oswald was at Nellis. These trips to different bases may have been the icing on the cake that got Oswald into the Soviet Union. During this time 16 November to Dec. 22, 1958, Harvey Oswald is at the Santa Ana Marine Corps base and not on leave. Why things are underlined here and throughout I don't know. I can't remove the underlining.