John Butler

This is a crop from one of the pages from what Bart Kamp posted. It looks strange to me. It appears that an earlier page with a different message has been typed over. Might be some kind of typewriter error, maybe? What's going on here? A carbon copying error?

Here's one I would like to add to Jim's list: 12. Who was the projectionist in the projection booth. Was there one or two operators? If so, who was the second?

After Mark's latest presentation, I have nothing more to say about his simulation.

Mark said, "Lastly here is the hub cap in Z180, along with the black tyre (or tire if you prefer the US spelling!):" Any of the images in this series showing vehicles, tires, or hub caps are to blurry to say conclusively that is what is being seen. It could equally be the payment or if black the shadow of someone. To blurry to say anything.

Mark said, "Here is the first clear Wiegman frame showing the two cars which I calculate to be less than a second before the fatal shot was fired:" "The Mayors car at this point is at the beginning of Elm Street near the traffic lights, and about 5 seconds later stops due to the chaos ahead in the aftermath of the fatal shot. This Wiegman frame is clear enough to even see the occupants of the Mayors car!" This scene is from the Weigman film and is showing the vehicles in motion from the stop in the turn on Elm Street. This scene is after the stop when the vehicles are moving after Weigman gets to the intersection. It is a shame we don't have an earlier scene where we can tell who was directing traffic. "Here is the first clear Wiegman frame showing the two cars which I calculate to be less than a second before the fatal shot was fired" This is not what Mrs. Cabell said. To use this position and later for the stop completely ignores what Mrs. Cabell said. It doesn't make any sense for me to point this out again and again. Mark has his way of looking at things and it is his simulation. He will have to stand behind whatever he has his simulation doing.

Mark said, Just for context, here is the Mayors car and the following National Press Pool car on Houston Street as depicted in a Hughes frame, circa 14 seconds before the fatal shot: The Zapruder Gap is about 15 seconds in length. I think it is longer and could go up to 22 seconds, but David Josephs has the best calculation on that at about 14 or 15 seconds. You show the VP car and the VP security car still on Houston. They are followed by the Mayor's Car and the National Press Car. To get down to Z 313 for the fatal shot it is a longer period than 14 seconds. That is if you take the Zapruder film as gospel. OBTW, just to show how witness testimony differs. Tony Glover said this is where she saw the president's head explode. That would be the fatal shot. There are over 50 witnesses that said shooting occurred in front of the TSBD when the president made the turn onto Elm and passed by the TSBD. Zapruder 133 shows the p. limo at about 50 feet from the Stemmons sign and at the southwest corner of the TSBD. This is about 9.8 or 10 seconds from the fatal head shot according to Zapruder. Z 313- Z 133 - 180 frames by 18.3 and you have 9.8 seconds. Add about 14 seconds for the Gap, 10 seconds to the fatal shooting, and whatever time the motorcade is still on Houston, perhaps just a few seconds, and add the time the Mayor's Car is stopped in the turn, 6 to 8 seconds, and you have what? 14.5 seconds for the Gap, 10 seconds from Z 133 to Z 313, 6 to 8 seconds for the Mayors Car to stop and hear the first shot you have a period of about 30+ seconds. This would be Zapruder timing plus Dearie's effort to say what was needed for the cover up. Other people say other things. And, this is the reason I do not trust the Zapruder film.

Mark, This is not the frame I objected to: This is the frame: I have no objections to the Z210 frame. Perhaps, the Mayor's Car could be just a few feet further into Elm Street.

Mark said: "However I cannot see where she says the car stopped on Houston Street. She says the car stopped for a few seconds after the third shot on Elm Street, but nothing else. If I have missed the quote, please cite the sentence where she said they stopped on Houston Street." I did not say the Mayor's Car stopped on Houston Street. I gave you her testimony which says she stopped in the turn on Elm Street. And, it was on the first shot not the third. She clearly says the "first shot rang out". And she clearly says "we were making the turn" and was at the "top of the hill". Her vehicle was not further down Elm as you have place it. Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other, The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly facing it. Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston? Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn. Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn? Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see.

The one pictured below in Towner is W.B. Barnett and the testimony below creates a different kettle of fish. This statement from above allows one to go back and look at the testimony of the 3 policemen in the intersection of Houston and Elm. Because of the way the various films were made one can conclude that traffic was held up on Elm for the elements of the motorcade after the VP's security vehicle. The Mayor's Car was held for about 6-8 seconds. The Camera Cars were held up for at least about 30 seconds. Who was there to direct this traffic holdup? The 3 policemen all said they immediately, after the shooting, did other things. The following is a bit long, but explains the situation. Which policemen were in the intersection of Houston and Elm Street? And, who directed traffic after the assassination? There were 3 Dallas Policemen at the intersection of Houston and Elm Street. These were Welcome Barnett, J. M. Smith, and Edgar L. Smith. These 3 policemen are important in what they did during and after the assassination. Someone directed traffic in the intersection of Houston and Elm directly after the assassination. This policemen or policemen held the Mayor’s Car for just a few seconds, 6 to 8 seconds, and then stopped the Camera Cars at the intersection for about 30 seconds. These activities are very important for determining the actions of others during the first minute after the assassination. Who was it who directed traffic after the assassination? This is what they said in their Warren Commission statements concerning what their activities were when the assassination occurred and afterwards. Welcome Barnett: Where Welcome Barnett was when the assassination occurred is somewhat mysterious. Talking to Wesley Liebeler, the WC attorney, he said he was at Position 1, or Position 4, or Postion 8 or Position 9. Do you know where these are without Liebeler’s map? He did not make any reference to his location such as the northwest corner of Houston and Elm. I have this feeling whenever a witnesses’ location is somewhere that could lead to testimony harmful to the cover-up by the WC then the WC attorneys resorted to map locations that do not spell out a direct location that everyone would instantly know where the witness was. Here is what Welcome Barnett said: Mr. LIEBELER - Did you divide your duties among yourselves when you got there, or had you been specifically instructed as to what each one was supposed to do? Mr. BARNETT - We divided our duties. Mr. LIEBELER - How did you do that? Mr. BARNETT - Well, as best I remember, we each picked a corner and got on the corner. We were advised to stay on our corner, not to cross over to idly talk, but to stay on the corner and keep our eyes open and be ready. Mr. LIEBELER - Which corner did you station yourself at? I have a picture here of an aerial view - you can sit down - Commission Exhibit No. 354. Of course, you can recognize the intersection of Elm and Houston here in the left-hand upper portion of the picture; can you not? Mr. BARNETT - I was right here. Mr. LIEBELER - At No. 1. Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you remain there at all times from 10 o'clock until the motorcade arrived? Mr. BARNETT - Yes; well, of course, I was here until we got word to stop the traffic, and I stepped out of this position here. I had to stop traffic from Houston here and help the other officers stop it on Elm, and stop this traffic on this small street that goes in front of the Depository Building. Mr. LIEBELER - When the motorcade actually came, you moved over pretty much into Houston Street? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - To stop the traffic that was coming? Mr. BARNETT - South on Houston Street. Mr. LIEBELER - South on Houston Street? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; Elm Street is so wide, and I helped these officers here stop this traffic here. Mr. LIEBELER - We have written the No. 4 on here before and it is kind of hard to read. You also helped to stop the traffic that was coming down here in the area of No. 4 which would have been the traffic on Elm Street? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; I was standing right about this position right here. Mr. LIEBELER - Right about No. 8. … Mr. BARNETT - I couldn't. I was to busy. [Referring to picture] I got this in the wrong place. It needs to be about this position right here, instead of here. I was right here. I got it a bit to far, but I could see the President's car from the position I was, so I had to be right here [pointing] Mr. LIEBELER - You are satisfied that you were further out into the intersection? Mr. BARNETT - Right there [indicating] Mr. LIEBELER - [Marking] In the general vicinity of No. 9? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; the car passed within a few feet of me, and I was holding some people, or seeing that they stayed back, and one small boy started. I was afraid he was going to get too close, and I stopped him Mr. LIEBELER - Now the motorcade made the turn onto Elm Street from Houston Street, and you were standing at approximately in position No. 9, and you indicated before that you heard the shots fired; is that right? … Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see any of the shots hit the President? Mr. BARNETT - Well, when the first shot - I was looking at the President when the first shot was fired, and I thought I saw him slump down, but I am not sure, and I didn't look any more then. I thought he was ducking then. Mr. LIEBELER - Now when you were standing up there in position No. 9, you were in a spot where you could look right down Elm Street and see the railroad tracks down here which pass over the triple underpass? Mr. BARNETT - Yes sir. … Mr. LIEBELER - You couldn't tell specifically where it had come from? Mr. BARNETT - Not the first one, but I thought it was a firecracker. But none of the people moved or took any action, whereas they would have if a firecracker went off. And when the second shot was fired, it sounded high. The sound of the second one seemed to me like it was coming from up high, and I looked up at the building and I saw nothing in the windows. In fact, I couldn't even see any windows at that time. Mr. LIEBELER - In the Texas School Book Depository? Mr. BARNETT - No, sir; because I was standing to close, was the reason. And I looked back again at the crowd, and the third shot was fired. And I looked up again, and I decided it had to be on top of that building. To me it is the only place the sound could be coming from. Mr. LIEBELER - What did you do when you concluded that the shots were coming from that building? Mr. BARNETT - I ran to the back of the building. Mr. LIEBELER - Ran down Houston Street? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner? Mr. BARNETT - It is around the corner from Houston Street. When looking at the testimony of Welcome Barnett, was you confused by his location before and after the assassination. Generally, you can say he was in the intersection of Houston and Elm Street in the northern part of the intersection. He moved around from the corner near the TSBD to the middle of the intersection on the north side of the intersection. He claimed controlled and stopped traffic moving west on Elm Street. Directly after the assassination he ran to the back of the TSBD. Therefore, according to his testimony he was not the one who directed traffic in the intersection for a minute after the assassination. Joe Marshall Smith: J. M. Smith was also questioned by Wesley Liebeler, but he did not confuse Smith’s location by referring to a map or photo location as much as was done with Welcome Barnett. At one point he has Barnett and J. M. Smith in the same location, No. 4. From the testimony of Barnett and J. M. Smith it is difficult to determine who stopped traffic moving west on Elm Street. Mr. SMITH. Just after we got the epileptic seizure en route to the hospital, I hadn't gotten back to the corner but just a few minutes until the motorcade was coming, so I stationed myself on Elm Street in the middle from the southeast curb of Elm and Houston and held traffic up. Mr. LIEBELER. Which direction would this traffic have been coming from that you held up? Mr. SMITH. It was heading west on Elm. Mr. LIEBELER. Coming down Elm toward the triple underpass? Coming into the intersection of Elm and Houston? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. So you were the individual patrolman who went back and held up the traffic to Elm. Street; is that right? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. So you would have been on the eastern side of Houston Street on Elm Street holding up the traffic that was coming down Elm Street? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. … Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a picture, an aerial view of the area that is marked Commission Exhibit No. 354. Could you locate the Texas School Book Depository Building in there? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; it should be right there. Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; that is it on the left-hand side of the picture, and of course, the intersection of Elm and Houston is right off opposite the corner there, right at the corner of the Texas School Book Depository Building, and you were standing to the east? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; right here. Mr. LIEBELER. Of Houston? Mr. SMITH. Right along in this area. Mr. LIEBELER. There is, in fact, a picture of a car stopped there right at the intersection of Elm and Houston, and you had been standing back in the vicinity of the automobile? Mr. SMITH. Just about the middle of Elm Street here. Mr. LIEBELER. I will put the No. 4 in a circle on the spot of approximately where you were standing at the time the motorcade went by. Is that approximately correct? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER. You were facing east up Elm Street away from the triple underpass? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER. So that your back was in fact turned to the School Book Depository Building? … Mr. LIEBELER. While you were standing here and the motorcade went by, tell us what happened at that point. Mr. SMITH. I heard the shots. Mr. LIEBELER. Did you turn to watch the motorcade? Did you turn to watch the President as the motorcade went by? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; I glanced around and was watching the crowd to make sure they stayed back out of the way of the motorcade, and also to make sure none of the cars started up or anything. Then I heard the shots, and I immediately proceeded from this point. Mr. LIEBELER. Point 4 on Commission Exhibit No. 354? Mr. SMITH. I started up toward this Book Depository after I heard the shots, and I didn't know where the shots came from. I had no idea, because it was such a ricochet. Mr. LIEBELER. An echo effect? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here. From this testimony, Joe Marshall Smith did not stay in the intersection to direct traffic. He ran for the TSBD and then was directed to the Grassy Knoll. We can rule him out along with Welcome Barnett as the person who directed traffic in the intersection after the assassination. Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. (E. L. Smith): E. L. Smith was also questioned by Wesley Liebeler. With this Smith, Liebeler changed his map notions to a different notation. But, he allowed Smith to locate himself specifically. He did not do this with Welcome Barnett. Later in his testimony he adjusted his testimony further south on Houston Street under the windows of the Court Records Building. Mr. SMITH. Okay - the dates and times will be just approximately, because I don't recall exactly, but, approximately 9 a.m., November 22, 1963, I attended a detail In the basement of the city hall for all men who were designated to work traffic for the President's visit to Dallas. At that detail I was given instructions by Captain Lawrence, P. W. Lawrence, as to my duties and some things to watch out for. Some of these things I was to watch out for was to watch the crowd for any unusual movements and also to keep a check on the buildings in the vicinity of where I was located. He instructed us specifically about placards. I understand that people were allowed to carry placards, but if I should notice anyone attempting to throw them or any thing like that, I should take them into custody. I was assigned to the corner of Houston and Elm Street. I got to my traffic corner about -- Mr. LIEBELER. Before you get to that - let me ask you a few questions: What did you say your name was, Edgar L.? Mr. SMITH. E. L. - Edgar L. Mr. LIEBELER. There were two Smiths on that corner? Mr. SMITH. Yes; I understand that. Mr. LIEBELER. When you received your instructions that morning, was there any specific mention made of watching the windows of the buildings in the area? Mr. SMITH. Not that I recall - just general - watch out, you know, for the crowd. Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you went down to the corner of Elm and Houston and took up your duty station there at about what time? Mr. SMITH. I think it was about approximately 10 o'clock and - I believe that's about right. Mr. LIEBELER. And there were two other officers there, isn't that right? Mr. SMITH. Yes; there were. Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us what their names were? Mr. SMITH. One of them was Welcome Barnett and the other boy was named Smith too, but I don't recall his initials. Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself and what did you do from the time you arrived until the time the motorcade began to approach? Mr. SMITH. I said approximately - oh, 30 to 40 feet south of the south curb of Elm Street at the east curb of Houston. I stood around there and talked with some of the people in this general vicinity and watched the crowd. Mr. LIEBELER. You stood across the street on Houston Street from the Texas School Book Depository Building? 566 Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Cater-cornered - and I show you Commission Exhibit No. 354, and it has a letter "A" marked there, and that will be approximately where you were standing; is that right? Mr. SMITH. That's about where I was. … Mr. LIEBELER. What happened when the motorcade came down Main Street and turned right on Houston Street; what did you do then? Mr. SMITH. I Just stood parade rest there, you know, trying to keep the people back. I was facing the motorcade - they had come out in the street here a little bit and I just stood there. Mr. LIEBELER. So you were facing west? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. You did not go out into the intersection at any point here and help hold traffic back at that intersection, did you? Mr. SMITH. No; I did. not. … Mr. LIEBELER. As the motorcade turned and went down Elm Street, what happened? Mr. SMITH. I heard three shots, I guess they were shots. I thought that the first two were just firecrackers and kept my position and after the third one, I ran down the street here. Mr. LIEBELER. You ran down Elm Street? Mr. SMITH. Well, ran down Houston Street and then to Elm, and actually, I guess it was a little bit farther over than this, because after they turned the corner I couldn't see any of the cars, there were so many people standing there around the corner. Mr. LIEBELER. So, you were a little bit farther south down Elm Street than Position "A"? Mr. SMITH. Yes; possibly a little bit farther south than that - yes; I was under these windows here. … Mr. LIEBELER. You thought the shot came from this little concrete structure up behind No. 7? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER. On Commission Exhibit No. 354? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Toward the railroad tracks there? Mr. SMITH. That's true. Mr. LIEBELER. And to the north of No.7? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. So, you ran down in there and what did you do when you got down there? Mr. SMITH. I ran down here. Mr. LIEBELER. Down on Elm Street? Mr. SMITH. And I ran up to here and I couldn't get over so I went back around then. Mr. LIEBELER. You went farther down Elm Street and right behind this concrete structure here; is that correct? Mr. SMITH. And on back into there. If we believe the testimony of these 3 policemen none of them directed traffic in the intersection after the shooting. As soon as the shooting occurred, they went into action as described above. None of these men stayed in the intersection to direct traffic. So, who did? Should be believe the testimony of these policemen as a group? Or, should we look at their testimony individually. If individual, we immediately see that Welcome Barnett’s testimony may be questionable due to Liebeler confusing his location in the intersection of Houston and Elm. Why did he do that for Barnett, but not for the two Smiths. If the testimony of these men is true, we have to postulate a 4th policemen in the intersection. There is absolutely no visual evidence from films and photos from that day. The 3 Dallas policemen can be identified in films and photos at roughly the same positions as they testified to. It’s probably more useful to use the old friar’s razor and say the simplest explanation is that someone is not telling the truth. Since Welcome Barnett’s testimony has his location confused then it might be Barnett’s testimony that has been adjusted. I'm going to speculate that Barnett directed traffic in the intersection for about a minute or so after the assassination and then ran north on Houston Street to the back of the TSBD. This speculation has consequences for what happened in that minute after the assassination when people could have left the back of the building when Barnett was directing traffic. The stopping of traffic also has consequence for the timing of Baker's run in the Darnell/ Couch film.

Not the same posture as 133A. The way his left leg is set his left foot would be off the ground. Or, it looks like he is sitting on something. This looks like a figure walking or sitting on something. If so, then this photo is not at all relevant. Edited: This fellow is not standing at all. He is sitting on something.

Paul, You said, "As far as I know, the projectionist was never identified, let alone interviewed, so it is possible that person could have the been the one to "clear" a second suspect in the balcony." My brother use to run the projection booth at our local theater. He would allow me to sit in the balcony if I helped with film splicing if the film broke. We would sit out in the balcony and watch the movie. When it was time to change a reel a big circle would be shown on the upper right of the theater screen. He or both of us would go into the projection booth an change the feel reel and get ready for the next change. It didn't take long. Most theaters of the sixties were set up about the same. Photos showing the inside of the projection booth of the Texas Theater looked very familiar. I may be mixing memories here and the photos of the projection booth I saw, while of a sixties era projection booth, may not have been the Texas Theater. Afterwards we would go back out into the balcony and watch the film. The point here is if the projectionist at the Texas Theater did the same thing then he would clearly have info on who was in the balcony or not. I suspect that is why he was never identified or questioned. Added later: If the Texas Theater had the same racist, segregationist policies as our local theater did then a white person in the balcony would have stuck out like a sore thumb. I have no doubt that the Texas Theater had the same policy. Black people would not have been allowed to sit next to white people. So, main floor for whites and the balcony for blacks. Segregation, in some ways was still in force when I was there in 1969. The projectionist would probably have seen a white person and would have asked them to leave the balcony area. Then again maybe not. An out of area person would have been noticed.

I think Karl really has a point to consider. The answers to what happened in Dealey Plaza are in the films, photos, and witness statements involving the events there and anything to do with Lee Harvey Oswald.

Cherry picking data is what people usually do once they fall afoul of the conflicting, contrary events of Dealey Plaza. Mrs. Dearie Cabell clearly stated where her vehicle stopped. You are misreading her testimony. Where you have her she would have to turn to see the TSBD. She said she was at the top of the hill not further down Elm. The first shot that she heard probably took place somewhere between Z180 and about Z225. Many people think that the shot occurred while the p. limo was behind the Stemmons sign. The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly facing it. Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston? Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn. Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn? Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see. Weigman/Couch shows that the Camera Cars were held up on Houston Street for about 30 seconds, 28. or 29 seconds if you follow Chris Davidson. If you choose to believe Mrs. Cabell's vehicle stopped in another place then do so. However, Mrs. Cabell said: Mrs. Cabell. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked my head up. Mr. Hubert. Why did you do that? Mrs. Cabell. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I just jerked my head up. Mr. Hubert. What did you see? Mrs. Cabell. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those win- dows on the sixth floor are in groups of twos. Weigman clearly said he heard 3 shots while he was on Houston Street. And, the car was slowing and stopping there. He hit the pavement on the third shot and ran for the intersection. If you believe that the third shot occurred at Zapruder 313 then your timing is wrong on Zapruder or Weigman or Darnell/Couch or Weigman and others are false witnesses. A mere 6 seconds is about the time the Mayor's Car stopped "on the turn" while turning into the intersection. They were facing the TSBD directly according to Dearie Cabell. A mere 6-8 seconds is about the time the alleged Oswald shooter fired his weapon from the sixth floor. A mere 6 seconds changed history forever. If you are correct the Mayor's car should be making the turn at Zapruder 180. Frame 180 or frames 180-208 do not show that. They show the Johnson security vehicle And, the turn can not be seen after those frames. This frame, Z295 shows at least one shot was fired according to the magic bullet theory. The one that struck Kennedy and Connally. 295 -180= 115 frames and about 6.3 seconds. The Mayor's Car is still facing the TSBD. Zapruder 180 shows the Johnson security vehicle not the Mayor's Car. The Vice-Presidential vehicle kept its distance from the p. limo and it's security vehicle. This is Zapruder scene 176 and is just 4 frames prior Z180 and shows the identity of the vehicle making the turn without doubt. No other vehicle is in sight. You can not really rely on most of the films taken in Dealey Plaza. Most have been tampered with. Can you explain what the arrow points to? Where is the Mayor's Car? This is frame Z 165 and it clearly shows which vehicle is making the turn: It is not significantly different than Z 180 less than a second later. This scene, Z180, is about where the first shot had occurred or a couple of seconds before it. The first shot could have missed and the second shot could be the "magic bullet". Witness statements with all their problems are generally more reliable than any Dealey Plaza photo or film. Which would be preferred in a court?

Hopefully, you didn't spend more money at the concession stand. But, what you are saying is basically true of most Hollywood productions in recent years. They are not worth seeing. I quit going to the movies some years back.

Chris, I think I see Joseph's point. It is neat and explains one of the problems with 133A.

Mark, Weigman said in his testimony that the motorcade stopped, at least his part, stopped on Houston. He exited his vehicle and ran to Elm Street. For a brief period of time the Mayor's Car was stopped in the turn where it was directly facing the TSBD not further down the street. That is what Mrs. Cabell said. I estimate that it took Weigman at least 3 to 5 seconds to reach the Mayor's Car and the intersection. It could be more. If my memory serves Weigman heard shots or a shot before he exited his vehicle. Weigman said: “We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as the Book Depository, (Houston Street comment added) and I heard the first report and I thought like everybody that it was a good size firecracker—a cherry bomb .Then when I heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the (car door) frame, which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports. I don’t think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the third one I was running. The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow. I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot. When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was stopping. I’d better run around there and see what was happening."

Joe, From your comments I think we have many of the same questions concerning the behavior of Clint Hill. I re-read the above comment and realized I had not seen or heard that information before. Particularly, the bit about sharing cigarettes in the back of an auto. Even in providing those details Clint Hill is still being deceptive in his description of those events. Here is something I just realized reading through this material. Take another look at this route map of the motorcade on Main, Houston, and Elm. Clint Hill made 4 or more trips to the p. limo prior to getting to Main and Houston and Houston and Elm intersections. A good question to ask is why didn't he move up to the p. limo at the Main and Houston intersection? Or, why didn't he move up to the p. limo at the Houston and Elm intersection? These were acute turns onto another street and absolutely the best places for sniper fire. I had used this image before in discussing the best places to shoot in Dealey Plaza: This makes me think it is more then likely he knew something was in the works and about where the assassination would take place. The earlier mountings of the p. limo may have been staged to show he was on the job and he simply didn't see where the real assassination would take place. Here is the famous Altgens 7 which shows Clint Hill on the back of the p. limo. You can see him mount the back of the p. limo in various films. Although I think this image is a fraud I will use it any way to illustrate the point I am about to make: The point here is Clint Hill did not make an attempt to mount the p. limo prior to the assassination spot and seems to be slow or not moving toward the p. limo until the last shot is fired. As the altered photo above concerning shooting places in Dealey Plaza illustrates, he might have had prior knowledge most likely gained from his fellow agents. If that is true then he knew an assassination attempt was coming and his detail mates probably knew that also. I know this is speculation, but it is reasonable speculation. I am not alone is this notion in suspecting that there is something fishy about the behavior of the presidential security detail, particularly the agents in the follow up vehicle to the p. limo.

Mark, At first I didn't think much of your project however, it is coming along well. Your doing good work and keep it up. I might make a suggestion at this point on Altgens 6. The Vice Presidential security vehicle looks like it has just made the turn onto Elm Street and is in the intersection of Elm and Houston. If it is further down the road as you have placed it then the people on the side walk should appear smaller. The Vice Presidential vehicle is at best one or at most two white stripes from the SS security vehicle. It and the VP car is perhaps 2 car lengths from the SS vehicle. You have it placed further down the street. This maybe just a matter of visual interpretation on camera angles. You have it passing the first tree on Elm or more correctly the little island whereas Altgens shows the vehicle before it reaches the tree. The second suggestion is a bit more serious. You've made a minor error shown below: You have omitted the Mayor's Car which has Mrs. Dearie Cabell in it. You have these vehicles, 19 and 20, stopping in front of the TSBD on Elm Street. Read Mrs. Cabell's WC testimony and she says exactly where her vehicle stopped. She said her vehicle stopped in the turn and she was looking directly at the TSBD. Mrs. Earle Cabell’s Warren Commission testimony on July 13, 1964: Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other, The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly facing it. Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston? Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn. Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn? Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see. Mr. Hubert. Since you were actually turned toward Representative Roberts on your right? Mrs. Cabell. Yes. Mr. Hubert. Actually, you were facing Mrs. Cabell. The building. Mr. Hubert. The Texas Depository Building? Mrs. Cabell. I was actually facing it. Mr. Hubert. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary na- ture, or heard? Mrs. Cabell. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked my head up. Mr. Hubert. Why did you do that? Mrs. Cabell. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I just jerked my head up. Mr. Hubert. What did you see? Mrs. Cabell. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those win- dows on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.

Craig, The two Chris', Bristow and Davidson, are generally always right. I argue with them from time to time, but they are good and I generally end up eating crow. The only problem I have with Chris Davidson is I am a math illiterate or perhaps a retard. His math is a bit much for me. I just accept what he is saying as true since those pieces of his work that I was able to follow were correct. Chris Bristow is a reasonable fellow and it is always wise to pay attention to what he says.

It appears from various films and photos Clint Hill would mount the back of the p. limo before the vehicle made a turn. He would dismount shortly thereafter. In the following photos I am not sure of the scene locations such as Main in the Powers film. I am not that familiar with Dallas Streets, particularly from over 50 years ago. The Dallas Cinema Associates film shows that for most of the film Clint Hill is on the SS security vehicle. He said he mounted the p. limo about 4 times, maybe more. This moving up to the p. limo seems to match the turns on the motorcade route. It appears Clint Hill thought there would be an assassination attempt at the turns on the motorcade route. I believe one can say this due to his behavior. Did he know about the assassination plan? Or, did he figure out something from the events of that day or from the events from prior days? His concerns for Jackie Kennedy compelled him to do so. Hill said he was told to stay off the limo by SS agent Boring because he was told that by the president in Tampa, FLA. This has been debunked thoroughly. Read Vince Palamara's comments earlier. This must be so since I don't see Hill disobeying a superior's direct orders. The other SS agent responsible for the president, Jack Ready, did not see what Clint Hill was seeing. Or, he was obeying orders from someone from the on scene SS detail. It could be Ready saw the same things as Hill, but wasn't willing to risk his life for a president that was secretly despised. Whatever the case, he made no efforts to mount on the back of the p. limo that was seen by anyone. Only Clint Hill was showing a nervousness and worry that can be said he was thinking there might be an assassination attempt and he needed to interpose himself between Jackie Kennedy and an assassin firing from the rear as the vehicle made a turn.

Thanks Chris, I appreciate your response. I haven't a clue either for the source for this filmstrip. I hadn't see this before. It is entirely new to me. Is this scene in the film on Main Street or some other turn on a street before the motorcade got to Main Street. Dave Powers has motorcade scenes featuring Clint Hill.

Chris, Can you tell me what film this is from:

Joe, The internet gives Jackie Kennedy a scandalous sex rep. I think it makes her a more interesting person than just the regular Camelot publicity and propaganda.

Craig, An abstract can simply be an interesting or pleasing arrangement of color. In my opinion the best abstracts don't have a topic, but they allow one to see his own "topic". Actually, I didn't want to comment on this, but I first saw Prayer Man taking a two-handed drink of his coke in your first frame. If you don't mind revealing at this time, what is your point, or what are you saying with the frame?

John Costella on his website offers a download of all the Zapruder frames in a zip file or you can look at those one at a time on his site. I know from past references that some folks don't care for Costella's work, but it seems ok to me for use. I use them all the time in anything to do with the Zapruder frame. Michael Clark has offered a good source for these frames. Mr. Carvelho's frames offer nothing usable for commenting on. They are too blurred and out of focus. Chris Bristow correctly identified the Zapruder film as the source. The first frame with light and contrast adjusted. This would make a fair abstract painting.