John Butler

Jim, Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't one of the central questions of the Harvey and Lee story is who was Harvey Oswald?

JIm, I don't think Emil Gardos was ever a citizen. His application for citizenship was eventually denied by court in 1934 and he was ordered to leave the country. I think it was a voluntary order. I don't think he left since there is information that the was still around Michigan and other places in the mid-west in the 1930s, and until 1940 in the Census, and possibly up to 1948. But, till 1948 is speculative based on deportation. Emil Gardos was writing articles in various newspapers in 1935 and 1939. In 1935 an article, Man without Country about Emil Gardos, was written in the Hammond Times in Hammond, Ind. This article was written by Leslie Eichel from the Central Press staff, New York. Does your reference to 1949 on Eighty-sixth Street apply to the following: Emil Gardos Amalia Gordos The address is the same: 217 East Eighty-six Street, New York, NY. If Emil and Grace are out of the country in 1948 this reference may apply to the Emil Gardos/Bardos fellow who is not the Emil Gardos in question. He was actually from Poland. Amalia is harder to track down. She is the daughter of John (Jan) and Mary (Kasperek) Gardos. Both of these folks were born in Poland. The relationship between Amalia and Emil is uncertain at this point. Other than having the same address I haven't found any connection. Just speculation. This set of Gardos folks may be relatives. More idle speculation. Did Emil and Grace take John to Hungary or leave him with relatives from Poland. Speculation says this might explain Harvey's polish accent as described by Marina in Russia. Now that is a real stretch. The only internet information on John Gardos is that he born in 1939 as was recorded in the Census Record of 1940. This could be because John was taken out of the country with his parents in 1948, or he went into the Oswald Project early on. Just speculation.

Here is something that will help with the deportation date of Emil Gardos and the subsequent leaving of the US by wife Grace. Emil Gardos is deported by the government in April, 1948. Hungary had recently been taken over by the Soviet Union. If not taken over they were certainly dominated by the Soviet Union in 1948. I suspect in those years the country was being converted to communism. Here is an idle speculation. Were Emil and Grace Gardos US agents sent into Soviet dominated Hungary as bona fided communists under persecution and Emil deported by the US government? Just an Idle speculation. What happened to John?

I have just run across an interesting discussion on this subject. This is from 2015 in a Forum thread It's Time To Play....Pick That Nose started by Steven Gaal. The relevant discussion is on page 4. The interesting part is the discussion of Greg Parker, David Josephs, and Steven Gaal. It relates to who Emil Gardos, Fred Blair, and Louis Weinstock was. It gives some information on the things we are discussing here. Some of it relevant and some not when compared to what we have found out recently. There is supplemental information that that has bearing on what we are discussing. If this info was known then the research on the Tippit phone call would have been easier, but looking at it fresh has revealed things that these researchers were not quite sure in a clearer manner. I'll try to summarize later. There are interesting possibilities here.

Andrej, What was causing the cancer was Simian Virus 40 which is the forerunner of HIV or aids. This virulent form of cancer was first noticed in the late 1970's with the chimpanzee heart replacement for a human in an experimental trial. The heart worked fine but they could not keep the man alive do to an overwhelming series of complications. Imagine what it did to Jack Ruby and others once they were injected. Jack knew what they did to him, but was powerless to do anything about it. Dr. Mary's Monkey is about Simian Virus 40 contaminating the polio vaccines of the late 1950s. They grew the vaccines on monkey organs and picked up the virus in the polio vaccine. IMO, Aids began in New Orleans, the nation's second largest port, in the 1960s and was spread through out the world from there though sailors.

Jim, From the internet: "Hungarian is the official language of Hungary and is spoken by the majority of the country's population. Several minority languages like Russian, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Slovak, Ukrainian, etc., are spoken by the minority communities of the country." Romanian is a romance language more akin to Italian, Spanish, and French than to any Slavic Language such as Russian. From the internet: "In Romania there are several spoken languages. Beside Romanian, the countrywide official language, other spoken languages are spoken and sometimes co-official at a local level. These languages include Hungarian, Romani, Ukrainian, German, Russian, Turkish, Tatar, Serbian, Slovak, Bulgarian, and Croatian." At the time of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Empire occupied about 1/2 or more of Romania. Constantzia (Constanta) is on the Black Sea and this is the area Emil Gardos is supposedly from. It was outside the Empire and, not in Hungary. I'll have more to say on that in a moment. And, I am going to assume the orange area is the area of the Lipovans and it is just directly north of Constanta and is probably a good indication that people of that area could speak Russian as a first or second language. People of the Austro-Hungarian Empire generally could speak many languages. Simply because there were many different language groups in the Empire outside of Hungary and Austria. My Grandfather and Grandmother left the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1906 and 1909 respectively. Their records of ship travel state they were from Hungary. But, in reality they were from Croatia. My Grandfather is reputed to have spoken 7 languages. My Grandfather may be a special case since he was raised by his Aunt and her husband who was an embassy official and they traveled all over Europe when my Grandfather was a child and young man. Emil Gardos very well may have spoken Russian. Fred Blair is another case. From his family history, his family sounds like mid-western American.

Paul, "2. The FBI report about Mrs. Jack Tippit's conversation with the mysterious woman caller was suppressed until 1993 - the HSCA in the 1970's had it, but it was not until the ARRB released it that we got to see it. " And, if the ARRB didn't release it more time would have passed maybe until the Trump release. From what you say in that sentence, I find reason to think the Tippit call is credible. The woman who called knew the background of the two and possibly their family. If that is so then she knew about John Gardos. Emil Gardos was denied citizenship in 1934. As far as I know he was not deported. Maybe the denial of citizenship and non-deportation led Emil Gardos into becoming a government informer. He had been tracked as a communist for years before by the government. I don't have any information on Fred Blair, but I would assume he was a fellow traveler as deep into Marx and Communism as Emil Gardos.

Paul, Your sound reasoning makes John Gardos = Harvey Oswald more plausible. Emil Gardos and Fred (Caroll) Blair were real people. The woman who made the call to the Tippits knew these people. And, she knew their background. If this is correct she probably knew John Gardos at one point in time. If so this makes the John Gardos=Harvey Oswald more acceptable. Jim Hargrove's newspaper articles, the Census and other data flesh the two out and establish their reality. Real people and not someone made up by the woman or the FBI. More research is need on why Grace Gardos last residence was in the US Embassy in Budapest. Was she living there as an employee? What was her connection there? If she was an employee there why was she, with so many communist associations, there? Based on current evidence Emil Gardos never became a citizen. He was subject to deportation since 1934. It might be possible that in order to remain in the US with his wife he began to cooperate with the FBI or some other government agency like he CIA or its predecessor the ONI in the 1930s and the OSS during the 1940s. I am not sure, but I think the only dedicated intelligence agency during 1930s was the ONI. Once cooperating he would not want to be exposed to his fellow travelers. There could have been drastic results of such an exposure. Presumptions, assumptions, and speculations are important in giving one a sense of what to look for, or a direction to take. At some point circumstantial evidence begins to become meaningful. Note: Emil Gardos was married to an American citizen. Would that keep him from being deported? Deportation could be used against him. In those days (30s) if the government wanted to deport they could find a reason. Gardos was a poor fellow living off the money he received from the Communist Party. Would he have had the resources to take his wife and son with him if he was deported? Would this make him more likely to cooperate with some government agency when they were looking to establish a long-term covert operation.

I don't need or want to have a conversation of any kind with you. Nor, do I need to satisfy your need for documentation or provide any proof to you on anything you might be interested in.. If you converse with me please keep your comments within forum policy rules.

No Bulman, This is one to one discussions with Doctors and Nurses and other medical staff over the years, I would say since about 2015 or so. I have a way of putting people at ease in one to one conversations where they are willing to trust and to share information. As I said they seem to know about this and other conspiracy things. Let's not go down the road that you usually take of ad hominem attacks and other silly statements such as above. I simply will not tolerate it. You have done well in recent times by not responding to the things I make comment on here on the forum. You need to go back to doing that.

I think the mystery is solved. Here is a record of a family history of the Grace and Emil Gardos family. Grace's parents are John Blair and Mary Bassett. She was born in Michigan and died in Budapest, Hungary. So, at this point we have the right Grace Blair. She is Grace A. Blair married to Emil Gardos. Next Record is the 1920 Census record for John and Mary Blair. In this Census record the child Carroll Blair is very important. This is the sibling of Grace Blair. Grace Blair in the 1920 United States Federal Census Name: Grace Blair Age: 9 Birth Year: abt 1911 Birthplace: Wisconsin Home in 1920: Fond du Lac Ward 8, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin Street: Street 52 Residence Date: 1920 Race: White Gender: Female Relation to Head of House: Daughter Marital status: Single Father's name: John A Blair Father's Birthplace: Minnesota Mother's name: Mary A Blair Mother's Birthplace: Wisconsin Able to Speak English: Yes Attended School: yes Able to Read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Neighbors: View others on page View others on page Household Member Name Age John A Blair 53 Mary A Blair 46 Clemence A Blair 23 Isabelle Blair 21 Clarence Blair 21 Hazel Blair 19 Naomi Blair 17 Caroll Blair 13 Edward Blair 12 Amy Blair 10 Grace Blair 9 Madeline Blair 6 When we check the 1920 Census for Caroll Blair we have this. Caroll is a male not a female and actually goes by Fred Blair. I didn't underline the parents names here of John and Mary Blair. and now for Fred: To make this long story short Uncle Fred Blair is Caroll Blair and that is what caused the confusion. The articles are correct. There is a better than average chance that Emil and Fred are the ones under discussion. John Gardos, the son of Grace and Emile, is a good candidate for Harvey Oswald, but needs a great deal more evidence to link the two.

Jim, Sandy has went back and checked on Fred. There are no other Census records for him. Being a communist he must not have cooperated with the Census takers. The problem with relying solely on Census records is that they rarely tell you anything important about a person's life history other than the kind of data for ancestry. Here's the marriage record. Grace A Blair in the New York, New York, Extracted Marriage Index, 1866-1937 Name: Grace A Blair Gender: Female Marriage Date: 29 Aug 1936 Marriage Place: Manhattan, New York, USA Spouse: Emil Gardos Certificate Number: 23803 Notice this is Grace A. Blair. For Grace E. and Grace A. Blairs, Sandy doesn't consider as a mistake simply because you run into this all the time in ancestry tracking. The confusion of names. first or middle, kind of standard in this kind of research. Particularly, if you can't find any records on a Grace A. Blair. I'm arguing with Sandy that the Grace E Blair she has found is not Grace A Blair. There will be more to come as this argument gets settled.

I like the title: Oswald's women. "But the cancer angle is a potential buzzkill." I don't know about this. I am an old guy with many visits with medical people in recent years. When I mention the book, Dr. Mary's Monkey, the medical people invariably sit up, so to speak, pay attention and start nodding their heads. Potential cancer from polio vaccines given long ago is something they knew about. To me this is one of the great conspiracies of the 20th Century. There are lots of medical secrets that Doctors, etc. keep secret from the public. Just read up on the drugs they prescribe and the procedures they advocate such as colonoscopies. The only problem I find with Judith Baker is there are no photos of Oswald and her. Oswald was a camera guy and always taking pictures.

Suggestion for a movie. Stone can do the 3 women (Marina, Marita, and Judith) in Oswald's life and can title it They Knew Lee Harvey Oswald's Secrets. I would be willing to go see it.

Jim, The problem here is Sandy, my wife, can't find a sister of Fred B. Blair, for Emil Gardos to marry. Fred appears to be an only child. Sandy has about 3 decades experience working with ancestry.com and it predecessor Family TreeMaker. We will continue looking, but at this point I doubt a Grace (wife of Emil and a sister of Fred Blair) can be found. Info just in. Fred B. Blair is not the brother of Grace Blair. She is the daughter of Nealey and Mary Grace Barrett Blair. Grace married Emil Gardos in Manhattan, New York on Aug. 26, 1936. Nealey has no brother named Fred. Fred might be some relative of Nealey known to Emil Gardos through family and communism. Just speculation. Note: The above statement is wrong. Read later posts for corrections. Grace Gardos according to her Social Security death index of 1981 lists her last residence as the US Consulate in Budapest, Hungary.

Some of the information in this article about Emil Gardos may not be exactly correct. Ancesry.com list two Emil Gardos that are similar. The second Emil Gardos is listed as Emil Bardos which is simply a census reader mistake that was corrected. He was from Poland and had a 5 year old son in 1940. This is not the Emil Gardos, the communist. So, there is only one Emil Gardos in the 1940 Census that fits the bill for the newspaper article above. Emil Gardos, the communist, never was a citizen. He was not denaturalized, but his petition for citizenship was denied. That amounts to about the same thing. There was a trial over his petition, which was cancelled in 1934, by the US District Court for the Eastern District. I would presume this was New York. There are two numbers that are important here and underlined in red. These numbers are used in describing Emil Gardos as a communist. This was why he was denied citizenship. and, The 1940 census list Emil Gardos as an alien. Also his job description is "Pressman" and "Newspaper" This is from: Emil Gardos in the 1940 United States Federal Census Name: Emil Gardos Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1906 Gender: Male Race: White Birthplace: Hungary Marital status: Married Relation to Head of House: Head Home in 1940: Ironwood, Gogebic, Michigan Map of Home in 1940: View Map Ironwood, Gogebic, Michigan Street: Norris Street House Number: 418 Farm: No Inferred Residence in 1935: New York, Manhattan, New York Residence in 1935: New York, Manhattan, New York Resident on farm in 1935: No Citizenship: Alien Sheet Number: 1A Number of Household in Order of Visitation: 8 Occupation: Pressman House Owned or Rented: Rented Value of Home or Monthly Rental if Rented: 20 Attended School or College: No Highest Grade Completed: College, 4th year Hours Worked Week Prior to Census: 56 Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker in private work Weeks Worked in 1939: 52 Income: 780 Income Other Sources: No Neighbors: View others on page View others on page Household Members: Name Age Emil Gardos 34 Grace Gardos 29 There are some discrepancies. John, the 1 year old son is not listed and should be. Ages differ from other records. "newspaper" is not mentioned here. Here is the actual Census entry: All these records show that there was only one Emil Gardos. He was from Hungary and Romania. Born in Hungary and he was also (he claims) a citizen of Romania (that part that was not in the Austro-Hungarian Empire) in the city of Constantzia (Constanta) in Romania. He was an alien not a citizen in 1940. He was always an alien. But, he did apply for citizenship. There is a more than likely chance the Emil Gardos mentioned in these records is the Emil Kardos (Gardos) mentioned in the phone call to the Tippit lady. I don't know how you would prove that the 1 year old son of Emil Gardos, John, could be Harvey Oswald. It is interesting, but a bit of a stretch lacking more info.

Wow! I'm always learning something new on the Forum. I have never listened to a recording of Marguerite Oswald. I'm astounded. She does not have a deep south accent such as one will find in New Orleans. She doesn't even have an southern accent such as one would find in Texas. Or, in a relatively northern state such as Kentucky. I really don't fully hear New Jersey or New York in her accent. I lived in that area for a year. But, I do hear something northern. More than likely it is New Jersey or New York modified by decades in the south. I occasionally hear something southern sounding. Her language usage seems to be practiced but, could be a reflection of schooling at an earlier the time in New Orleans. Correct diction I think was the term. Now IMO, Harvey and short Marguerite are not from the south. She (an alleged Claverie) can't be from a French, Southern, New Orleans family. If she really is from New Orleans the only way she could beat that kind of accent would be through years of study and practice. It can be done. But, why?

Joe, "First, whoever is filming this scene doesn't move while filming." This is the Robert Hughes film. The sequence of events in the film is smoother than the gif. Either frames are deleted or the timing sequence of the frames is slower causing the jerky movement seen making the gif look like the Tina Towner film. Here's what I see at the opening. TJM and BSM are scanning the crowd looking for something or someone. BSM sees TJM first and perhaps calls out to him. TJM looks like he is responding to something he hears. Then they make the handoff of something. The girl in the red skirt is in the Hughes film earlier on Main Street. She is across the street on the grassy area between Main and Elm. Then she is in the railroad yards. This indicates there is some period of time from the assassination to the railroad yard events. How much time has passed I don't know. Perhaps as much as two or three minutes. Perhaps longer. I haven't read this thread. Has anyone suggested this is Lee Oswald before he makes his run down hill and get into a station wagon as seen by Roger Craig? Oswald supposedly had a grey jacket on that day, WC Exhibit 162, instead of a tan jacket. Here's is a comparison: Here's another comparison for the jacket found at the Tippit scene: This is supposedly a white jacket in the comparison photo above. The white jacket above seems to be gathered at the waist of the jacket for a better fit. It seems exhibit 162 is also. And, ditto for TJM's jacket. I don't think these photo show anything other than a popular style of jacket. I had a white one exactly like the one shown as WC ex. 162 in about the same time period. The guy, TJM, could pass for what I think looks like Lee Oswald, not Harvey. But, that is thin. Very thin. It depends on interpreting looks that people don't generally agree with.

Mark, Thanks for the correction. I like your numbers much better than mine. Should have divided rather than multiplied. I can blame that on creeping senility. I am glad you corrected my blunder. That further enhances what money Oswald obtained from the Soviets. The first decent job I had after leaving the service and going to school was working for the Park Service in the summers in 1971-74. I think I received about $750 per month. 12 years earlier Oswald was getting twice that for a low ranking factory job. He was making the same as the factory director. That has to be meaningful. If you look at what they gave Robert Webster for a plastic spray gun there is a big difference. And, Webster didn't even get to keep Marina. I speculate what Oswald gave to the Soviets was U2 information, information of secret military and intelligence bases, information of the defense structure and function in Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan, and the west coast of the US. From what you were saying Oswald received $1540 a month for doing a low ranking job at the radio factory in 1960. I used the new rubles exchange rate. That didn't go into effect until after Oswald was in Minsk for some time. The whole point of the rubles thing was to show that the Russians really valued Oswald highly. He was placed in the same category as Kim Philby. Philby was Britain's most notorious spy for the Russians for decades.

Doesn't this guy look familiar? But, who? Larry Crafard? Lee Oswald? These are just two guesses. Can you come up with others?

There looks like there is an interaction between the two men- TJM and MIB. It may be that the Man in Blue (MIB) calls out to TJM and TJM responds by turning and recognizing MIB. As you can see in this frame from Karl's gif the TJM does have something in his hand. TJM seems to be looking straight at the MIB, eye to eye so to speak. When he passes MIB there is nothing in his hand. His hand is in his pocket. It looks like a handoff of something.

Thanks Jim, Your comments are always appreciated. “NOTE: The "Red Cross" in Russia (circa 1959) was an organ of the KGB. It was not affiliated with the world-wide International Red Cross founded in 1863 in Geneva, Switzerland.” This information on the Red Cross makes sense. I do mention that the Red Cross is an adjunct of the Secret Police, the MVD. I didn’t know that and thought perhaps other new people to the study of the Kennedy affair wouldn’t either. I joined the Forum in Dec., 2016. There’s a lot to learn and will take more than 3 years. I probably didn’t explain my thinking here as well as I should. IMO, this would be out of character for the original Lee Harvey Oswald. In being out of character this may be a message passed on to his superiors that he was “in”. This may have been a message that he was now cooperating with the Soviets and they were accepting the information that he was sent into Russia to convey. I meant to raise a speculative question here. “January 7, 1960: Oswald left Moscow by train for Minsk, Belorussia. At this time, he wrote his mother and brother saying, "I do not wish to ever contact you again. I am beginning a new life and I don't want any part of the old." Note: Why would he say such a cruel and hateful thing? Did he hate his family? If all is true about Harvey then this was not his family. They were some folks he had to deal with in the role he was playing. Or, was this a message to his superiors that all was successful and he was to stay in Russia? And, that he was about to accomplish the mission he was sent into Russia to do. This mission was more than likely not working in a factory in Russia.” ... ““...my parents are dead, I have no brothers or sisters.” Oswald says a couple of strange things in this note. 1) He says he was stationed with the American Army in Japan. There is no record of this. Harvey Oswald was in Japan for about 1 to 3 weeks, probably 1 week. He may have been referencing Lee Oswald here. 2) He said he went to two aviation schools while with the American Army. There is no record of this either. The info on his family is out of character for Lee Harvey Oswald, the original. This could easily be checked by the Soviets in a short period of time. It is in a sense an admission “I am an American Agent.” I don’t know why he would say this except maybe to be caught as an American agent. Then he could become a double agent for the Russians. They would understand that and he would be trusted more than a wannabe Russian and communist American defector This has to be Harvey because of the written Russian below. What did you think of the following? “Let’s summarize Oswald’s pay in relation to others: Kim Philby- The most notorious Cold War British spy received 1670 rubles from the Soviets when he defected. Lee Harvey Oswald- Oswald received 1400 rubles, 700 for his job and 700 more from the Red Cross (actually the MVD secret police) for a low rate job at the radio factory in Minsk. This info on the low quality job comes from fellow workers. Robert Webster- A Rand Company worker who defected to the Soviet Union. For helping them make a spray gun he had demonstrated was given first 1000 rubles and later a salary of 280 rubles per month with a semi-annual bonus of 50 to 60 rubles. Workers at the Minsk Radio factory- Average pay there was about the 70 rubles, perhaps a little higher for women, as Oswald stated he would receive at first. As you can see, whatever Oswald did for the Russians they considered almost as valuable as a spy who worked for them undercover in Britain for nearly 50 years. Philby joined the Communist Part around 1912 as a student. Philby was a top rank British Intelligence officer in MI6.” I might add here Philby was also a good friend/associate of James Angleton, said to be one of Oswald’s spymasters. Harvey Oswald provided information to the Soviets. I take this as a given. He had to have a reason why the Soviets should take in him as a defector. The most valuable information he would have is that concerning the U2. The U2 is all over his military service. I believe Harvey was sent into the Soviet Union to betray the U2 program to the Russians. This would disrupt any peace talks between Eisenhower and Khrushchev in the Spring of 1960. The U2 would eventually be downed by the Soviets. Why not use this event to accomplish a foreign policy goal contra to peace in the Cold War. After all the A12 was waiting in the wings. Soviet "hard liners" under Khrushchev may have wanted this also. The calculations here are based on old rubles (.4 to the dollar) which changed to new rubles (.9 to the dollar) after Oswald was in Minsk for some time. The exchange rate for Russian rubles to American dollars is bizarre. It depended at that time on whatever you were buying. As an example there would be a different rate of exchange for buying metals as versus something like cereals which required a different exchange rate.

I have recently been working on a timeline of Oswald in the Soviet Union. There were things in this timeline that I discovered that were new to me about Lee Harvey Oswald in the Soviet Union. They are probably things that the old hands at the Forum know, but I thought I would post this for folks who don’t know like me. The information on the Red Cross was the biggest eye opener and what the Russians gave the defector Robert Webster. January 5, 1960: Harvey Oswald went to the Red Cross in Moscow for money. He said, “I receive 5000 rubles, a huge sum!! Later in Minsk I am to earn 70 rubles a month at the factory.” Note: That is 70 rubles a month not 700. This makes one wonder if he knew the value of Russian Rubles. Or, was he being in part facetious? In the 1960s the exchange rate for rubles to dollars was different for old rubles as versus new rubles in 1960. The internet offers this information from Wikipedia: “Its parity to the US dollar underwent a devaluation, however, from $1 = 4 old rubles (0.4 new ruble) to $1 = 0.9 new ruble (or 90 kopeks).” With these figures 5000 rubles becomes $4500 and 70 rubles becomes $63.00. If my math is right $4500 was a large sum to given by the Red Cross. Why would the Red Cross do that? The $63.00 is less than what he made as a PVT in the Marines. This becomes important once he reaches Minsk and this amount of money is adjusted. January 7, 1960: Oswald left Moscow by train for Minsk, Belorussia. At this time, he wrote his mother and brother saying, "I do not wish to ever contact you again. I am beginning a new life and I don't want any part of the old." Note: Why would he say such a cruel and hateful thing? Did he hate his family? If all is true about Harvey then this was not his family. They were some folks he had to deal with in the role he was playing. Or, was this a message to his superiors that all was successful and he was to stay in Russia? And, that he was about to accomplish the mission he was sent into Russia to do. This mission was more than likely not working in a factory in Russia. January 7-January 11, 1960: Oswald arrives in Minsk and during the next couple of days meets various people there. January 13, 1960: Oswald begins work as a “checker” metal worker at the radio factory in Minsk. The amount of money he receives is adjusted. He now receives 700 rubles from the Red Cross on the 5th of the month and another 700 rubles for his job at the radio factory. This 1400 rubles is the same pay as the director of the factory. Note: This is very suspicious. What had he done to receive as much money as a factory director of an important industry in Minsk? Let’s compare what Oswald received in relation to what the most famous British double agent, Kim Philby, received from the Russians. Philby, the most important Russian spy in Britain for Russia, received 200 pounds or approximately 1670 rubles per month from the Russians when he defected to the Soviet Union. Kim Philby became a member of the Communist Party in 1912 and for many years he was a secret Russian agent. Harvey Oswald received nearly as much as the most notorious spy defector of the Cold War period. Oswald had 1400 rubles as versus Kim Philby’s 1670 rubles. To answer the question about why the Red Cross gave 700 rubles per month to Oswald is that they didn’t. That money was paid to the Red Cross to give to Oswald by the Russian MVD. The New York Times Archives June 28, 1964, Page 56 “DALLAS, June 27 (AP)— Lee Harvey Oswald said that the Russian secret police had paid half of his income during 1961 while he was in the Soviet Union, The Dallas Morning News said today in a copyright article. The article by a News reporter, Hugh Aynesworth, said the funds had been mentioned in notes made by the accused assassin of President Kennedy shortly after he had left the Soviet Union in 1962. Oswald wrote he felt the monthly 700 rubles was payment for “my denunciation of the U.S. in Moscow.” He made the same amount at a job in Minsk. in the Soviet Union. In a diary disclosed by The News, Oswald mentioned that the additional 700 rubles had been given hini by the Red Cross, but after leaving the Soviet he wrote: “When I went to Russia in the winter of 1959 my funds were very limited, so after a certain time, after the Russians had assured themselves that I was really the naive American who believed in Communism, they arranged for me to receive a certain amount of money every month.” “Oh, it came technically through the Red Cross as financial help to a poor political immigrant, but it was arranged by the MVD [secret police],” Oswald wrote.” Let’s compare what Harvey Oswald received in comparison to another defector, Robert Webster. From: THE DEFECTOR STUDY Staff Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations U.S. House of Representatives Ninety-fifth Congress Second Session March 1979 “In the last of July or early August, Webster attended what described as a serious, no drinking meeting held in a private restaurant room at the Metropole Hotel.(247) Webster told two Soviet chemists he could help them make the Rand spray gun he had demonstrated at the U.S. Exhibition.(248) On September 9 he was told he had been accepted by the Soviets. (249) Although he had requested to work in Moscow, Webster was informed he would be sent to Leningrad. (250 ) The following day the Soviet officials registered Webster at the Bucharist Hotel, and instructed him not to leave.(254) He was given 1,000 old rubles and asked to write a note to a Rand employee requesting the money be left for him at the hotel because he was on a tour of Russia. (252) Webster's girlfriend joined him the following day and both went on a month vacation at the Suitland Sanitarium in Sochi. (263) They returned to Leningrad and began work at the institute, where his girlfriend was employed as an assistant and translator. (264) Webster received 280 rubles per month and a semiannual bonus of 50 to 60 rubles. (265) He lived with his girlfriend in a new apartment building and had three rooms with a bath.” From Oswald’s Collective paper he said this about the average workers pay: “Here girls solder and screw the chassis to the frame attaching, transistors, tubes and so forth. They each have quotas depending upon what kind of work they are engaged in. One girl may solder 5 transistors in four minutes while the next girl solders 15 wire leads in 13 minutes. The pay scales here vary but slightly with average pay at 80 rubles without deductions. Deductions include 7 rubles, general tax, 2.50 rubles for bachelors and unmarried girls and any deductions for poor or careless work the inspectors may care to make further down the line. They start teams of two mostly boys of 17 or 18, turning the telvisions on the conveyor belts right side up, from where there has been soldering to a position where they place picture tubes onto the supports. These boys receive for a 39 hour week, 65-70 rubles, not counting deductions. Further on, others are filling tubes and parts around the picture tube itself, all along the line there are testing apparatus with operators hurriedly afix shape type testing currents, and withdrawing the snaps that fitting out a testers card, pass the equipment back on the conveyor, speed here is essential.” So, what Oswald was told originally about what he would be paid, 70 rubles, seems to be close to what the average workers at the radio factory were paid. Let’s summarize Oswald’s pay in relation to others: Kim Philby- The most notorious Cold War British spy received 1670 rubles from the Soviets when he defected. Lee Harvey Oswald- Oswald received 1400 rubles, 700 for his job and 700 more from the Red Cross (actually the MVD secret police) for a low rate job at the radio factory in Minsk. This info on the low quality job comes from fellow workers. Robert Webster- A Rand Company worker who defected to the Soviet Union. For helping them make a spray gun he had demonstrated was given first 1000 rubles and later a salary of 280 rubles per month with a semi-annual bonus of 50 to 60 rubles. Workers at the Minsk Radio factory- Average pay there was about the 70 rubles, perhaps a little higher for women, as Oswald stated he would receive at first. As you can see, whatever Oswald did for the Russians they considered almost as valuable as a spy who worked for them undercover in Britain for nearly 50 years. Philby joined the Communist Part around 1912 as a student. Philby as a top rank British Intelligence officer in MI6. So, what did Oswald do for the Soviets? One can speculate that it had to do with the U2 intelligence operations of the United States. Oswald’s whole military career revolved around aviation electronics and radar operations near the U2 at various bases he was stationed at. What did he know of value? Most claim that he didn’t have anything of value to give or trade to the Soviets. That is not true. Oswald possessed the kind of information that the Soviets would have salivated for and loved to get their hands on. He knew about military operations, equipment such as radars and planes, codes, frequencies, and general intelligence on military bases he was stationed at. He may have known more about U2s then most give him credit for. Oswald was trained in aviation electronics and repair. He worked with a Sgt. Ransberger in repair and maintenance of air craft in California. He lived in the same barracks with the U2 maintenance and repair crews. How difficult would it have been to strike up an after-hours conversation about work? He was stationed or visited some of the most secret military, intelligent bases in the US, Japan, Philippines, and Taiwan. What he knew could compromise the entire US Pacific military and intelligence operations in 1959. Knowing this one can speculate he gave the Soviets sufficient information to help them down the U2 in May, 1960. This would account for the Soviets giving him an extraordinary sum of money for a defector.

This is one of the rare times I get to agree with Ray Mitcham. Joe is not asking inane questions. I would like to know that myself. As far as time passing, who remembers the assassination of the Arch Duke Ferdinand? That was something like 105 years ago. The Kennedy assassination will age past the time we old timers will be around. I would hope newer generations will continue to fight this fight and try to establish truth in the "big event" for many years longer than 56.

Thanks Bart, My paranoia has doubled, tripled, and multiplied many time since I started dealing with Kennedy matters. It is sometimes hard to tell the innocent from the sinister. Recently, I have been looking for innocent explanations rather than jump immediately to the sinister. Thanks again. Your reply is appreciated.