Motorcycle Officers "Martin & Chaney"

[David G. Healy]

Alright, Jack and Jim, where has the motorcycle been photoshopped out of this photo?

Is Jack going too fast for you there, guy? LMFAO!

Edited February 2, 2010 by David G. Healy

[John Dugan]

Alright, Jack and Jim, where has the motorcycle been photoshopped out of this photo?

Is Jack going too fast for you there, guy? LMFAO!

not at all, sir. I just think it's ridiculous that his "interpretation" of a witness statement is refuted by photographic evidence. He won't explain why NOT one photo taken that day shows any motorcycles near the lead car pre-underpass.

BTW, when you quit laughing, do you have something of value to add to this thread?

[David Andrews]

Outside of the WCR, what are the best sources for anecdote or interview on where the MC cops assigned to JFK's right hand were after the wide left turn?

What's the best film to see the most of them in just before or after the turn?

Does any film give any depiction of the turn, even a disputed depiction?

Edited February 2, 2010 by David Andrews

[Jerry Logan]

Jack,

I've always found that yelling is a poor communication strategy. I'm posting a photo so you'll understand.

In this photo the SUV is trying to merge into the left lane.

It cannot move into that lane because it is blocked by the car to its left rear.

The SUV is blocked without the car being in front of it.

The car can get out of the way by speeding up or by slowing down.

After the head shot there was a motorcycle in the right lane blocking the limousine from merging into the right lane.

Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore all show this motorcycle.

The motorcycle slowed down which allowed the limousine to merge into the right lane, which it did.

The motorcycle got out of the way and the limousine entered the right lane where it passed directly under Simmons.

I know you'd like it if the limousine had only moved straight forward within the center lane, but it didn't.

I know you'd like it if Simmons had said the motorcycle was in front of the limousine - but he didn't.

Simmons only said the motorcycle was in the way which, as you can see, doesn't necessarily mean in front.

Jerry

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS NO MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE JFK LIMO BEFORE THE UNDERPASS.

IF THERE WAS A MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE LIMO ON ELM AND THE Z FILM DOES NOT SHOW IT,

THE Z FILM HAS BEEN ALTERED.

[Jack White]

Jack,

I've always found that yelling is a poor communication strategy. I'm posting a photo so you'll understand.

In this photo the SUV is trying to merge into the left lane.

It cannot move into that lane because it is blocked by the car to its left rear.

The SUV is blocked without the car being in front of it.

The car can get out of the way by speeding up or by slowing down.

After the head shot there was a motorcycle in the right lane blocking the limousine from merging into the right lane.

Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore all show this motorcycle.

The motorcycle slowed down which allowed the limousine to merge into the right lane, which it did.

The motorcycle got out of the way and the limousine entered the right lane where it passed directly under Simmons.

I know you'd like it if the limousine had only moved straight forward within the center lane, but it didn't.

I know you'd like it if Simmons had said the motorcycle was in front of the limousine - but he didn't.

Simmons only said the motorcycle was in the way which, as you can see, doesn't necessarily mean in front.

Jerry

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS NO MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE JFK LIMO BEFORE THE UNDERPASS.

IF THERE WAS A MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE LIMO ON ELM AND THE Z FILM DOES NOT SHOW IT,

THE Z FILM HAS BEEN ALTERED.

You still don't get it. Elm has THREE LANES. The limo was in the CENTER LANE. The motorcyles were

in the NORTH and SOUTH lanes BEHIND THE LIMO. There were no motorcycles in the center lane.

Therefore, the only way a motorcycle could block the limo is if it PULLED IN FRONT of the limo.

The Zapruder Film shows NO MOTORCYCLE PULLING IN FRONT OF THE LIMO or CHANGING LANES.

If the Z film DOES NOT SHOW A MOTORCYCLE BLOCKING THE LIMO FROM MOVING FORWARD,

then the Z film is not accurate.

Only a dunce cannot grasp this simple concept.

(Posting a photo of an auto being cut off because of a lane leading to an exit ramp is a ridiculous

non sequitur. I ridicule this blatant misdirection and falsification.)

Jack

[Jack White]

Alright, Jack and Jim, where has the motorcycle been photoshopped out of this photo?

Is Jack going too fast for you there, guy? LMFAO!

not at all, sir. I just think it's ridiculous that his "interpretation" of a witness statement is refuted by photographic evidence. He won't explain why NOT one photo taken that day shows any motorcycles near the lead car pre-underpass.

BTW, when you quit laughing, do you have something of value to add to this thread?

Sir, you do not understand that any extant image allowed to be released cannot be trusted as evidence.

Study ALL the photos of the assassination and you will find that ALL have been falsified to some extent.

You just don't get it. When you have studied the photos 40+ years, get back to us.

[Jack White]

Alright, Jack and Jim, where has the motorcycle been photoshopped out of this photo?

I have retouched HUNDREDS of photos. A good retoucher can airbrush or paint out

a motorcycle where it is undetectable after photocopying.

PhotoShop and computers were not in use in 1963, believe it or not. You are too

young to know that in the 60s, all art work was done by hand.

Jack

[Jerry Logan]

Jack,

Your reply is factually incorrect. Perhaps that's why you cling to your mistaken assumption with such conviction.

Around the time of the head shot motorcycles on both sides pulled even with the trunk of the limousine.

At the time of the headshot the limousine was in the center lane, but it moved left and then into the right lane after Chaney slowed and got out of the way.

You're aware that the photos show the limousine exiting the plaza in the right lane?

You're aware that Simmons is standing over the right lane, where the limousine passes directly under him?

Simmons is quite rightly saying that the limousine could not have passed directly beneath him unless the motorcycle got out of the way - by falling back and freeing the right lane.

And no, I'm not trying to misdirect anyone. You seemed to be having trouble understanding that a lane change can be blocked from the rear - you don't have to be in front of someone to to stop them from moving into another lane.

I'm leaving for a few hours so try to avoid leaping to the conclusion that I've decided your right and have nothing to say.

Jerry

Jack,

I've always found that yelling is a poor communication strategy. I'm posting a photo so you'll understand.

In this photo the SUV is trying to merge into the left lane.

It cannot move into that lane because it is blocked by the car to its left rear.

The SUV is blocked without the car being in front of it.

The car can get out of the way by speeding up or by slowing down.

After the head shot there was a motorcycle in the right lane blocking the limousine from merging into the right lane.

Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore all show this motorcycle.

The motorcycle slowed down which allowed the limousine to merge into the right lane, which it did.

The motorcycle got out of the way and the limousine entered the right lane where it passed directly under Simmons.

I know you'd like it if the limousine had only moved straight forward within the center lane, but it didn't.

I know you'd like it if Simmons had said the motorcycle was in front of the limousine - but he didn't.

Simmons only said the motorcycle was in the way which, as you can see, doesn't necessarily mean in front.

Jerry

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS NO MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE JFK LIMO BEFORE THE UNDERPASS.

IF THERE WAS A MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE LIMO ON ELM AND THE Z FILM DOES NOT SHOW IT,

THE Z FILM HAS BEEN ALTERED.

You still don't get it. Elm has THREE LANES. The limo was in the CENTER LANE. The motorcyles were

in the NORTH and SOUTH lanes BEHIND THE LIMO. There were no motorcycles in the center lane.

Therefore, the only way a motorcycle could block the limo is if it PULLED IN FRONT of the limo.

The Zapruder Film shows NO MOTORCYCLE PULLING IN FRONT OF THE LIMO or CHANGING LANES.

If the Z film DOES NOT SHOW A MOTORCYCLE BLOCKING THE LIMO FROM MOVING FORWARD,

then the Z film is not accurate.

Only a dunce cannot grasp this simple concept.

(Posting a photo of an auto being cut off because of a lane leading to an exit ramp is a ridiculous

non sequitur. I ridicule this blatant misdirection and falsification.)

Jack

Edited February 3, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[Jack White]

Well, it is about all over now. I have found an image of Chaney's motorcycle approaching

the Chaney car. It had been overlooked all these years because the frame is very dark,

but when enhanced, the object can be nothing except a fast moving motorycle in the middle

of Elm Street aproaching the Chaney car which is not in the underpass. It shows exactly what

all the witnesses said. I will post it after I do a few finishing touches.

Jack

[Jack White]

Jack,

Your reply is factually incorrect. Perhaps that's why you cling to your mistaken assumption with such conviction.

Around the time of the head shot motorcycles on both sides pulled even with the trunk of the limousine.

At the time of the headshot the limousine was in the center lane, but it moved left and then into the right lane after Chaney slowed and got out of the way.

You're aware that the photos show the limousine exiting the plaza in the right lane?

You're aware that Simmons is standing over the right lane, where the limousine passes directly under him?

Simmons is quite rightly saying that the limousine could not have passed directly beneath him unless the motorcycle got out of the way - by falling back and freeing the right lane.

And no, I'm not trying to misdirect anyone. You seemed to be having trouble understanding that a lane change can be blocked from the rear - you don't have to be in front of someone to to stop them from moving into another lane.

I'm leaving for a few hours so try to avoid leaping to the conclusion that I've decided your right and have nothing to say.

Jerry

Jack,

I've always found that yelling is a poor communication strategy. I'm posting a photo so you'll understand.

In this photo the SUV is trying to merge into the left lane.

It cannot move into that lane because it is blocked by the car to its left rear.

The SUV is blocked without the car being in front of it.

The car can get out of the way by speeding up or by slowing down.

After the head shot there was a motorcycle in the right lane blocking the limousine from merging into the right lane.

Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore all show this motorcycle.

The motorcycle slowed down which allowed the limousine to merge into the right lane, which it did.

The motorcycle got out of the way and the limousine entered the right lane where it passed directly under Simmons.

I know you'd like it if the limousine had only moved straight forward within the center lane, but it didn't.

I know you'd like it if Simmons had said the motorcycle was in front of the limousine - but he didn't.

Simmons only said the motorcycle was in the way which, as you can see, doesn't necessarily mean in front.

Jerry

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS NO MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE JFK LIMO BEFORE THE UNDERPASS.

IF THERE WAS A MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE LIMO ON ELM AND THE Z FILM DOES NOT SHOW IT,

THE Z FILM HAS BEEN ALTERED.

You still don't get it. Elm has THREE LANES. The limo was in the CENTER LANE. The motorcyles were

in the NORTH and SOUTH lanes BEHIND THE LIMO. There were no motorcycles in the center lane.

Therefore, the only way a motorcycle could block the limo is if it PULLED IN FRONT of the limo.

The Zapruder Film shows NO MOTORCYCLE PULLING IN FRONT OF THE LIMO or CHANGING LANES.

If the Z film DOES NOT SHOW A MOTORCYCLE BLOCKING THE LIMO FROM MOVING FORWARD,

then the Z film is not accurate.

Only a dunce cannot grasp this simple concept.

(Posting a photo of an auto being cut off because of a lane leading to an exit ramp is a ridiculous

non sequitur. I ridicule this blatant misdirection and falsification.)

Jack

Jerry, I have studied these images for more than 30 years and know them far better than you do.

You have not yet told me anything new. You pretend to be an expert but are not. You are here to

obfuscate. And I have now DISCOVERED AN OVERLOOKED IMAGE OF CHANEY MOVING FORWARD

JUST AS DESCRIBED BY WITNESSES. However, I know you will not believe your eyes and will claim

that I am making things up.

Jack

[Jack White]

Jack,

Your reply is factually incorrect. Perhaps that's why you cling to your mistaken assumption with such conviction.

Around the time of the head shot motorcycles on both sides pulled even with the trunk of the limousine.

At the time of the headshot the limousine was in the center lane, but it moved left and then into the right lane after Chaney slowed and got out of the way.

You're aware that the photos show the limousine exiting the plaza in the right lane?

You're aware that Simmons is standing over the right lane, where the limousine passes directly under him?

Simmons is quite rightly saying that the limousine could not have passed directly beneath him unless the motorcycle got out of the way - by falling back and freeing the right lane.

And no, I'm not trying to misdirect anyone. You seemed to be having trouble understanding that a lane change can be blocked from the rear - you don't have to be in front of someone to to stop them from moving into another lane.

I'm leaving for a few hours so try to avoid leaping to the conclusion that I've decided your right and have nothing to say.

Jerry

Jack,

I've always found that yelling is a poor communication strategy. I'm posting a photo so you'll understand.

In this photo the SUV is trying to merge into the left lane.

It cannot move into that lane because it is blocked by the car to its left rear.

The SUV is blocked without the car being in front of it.

The car can get out of the way by speeding up or by slowing down.

After the head shot there was a motorcycle in the right lane blocking the limousine from merging into the right lane.

Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore all show this motorcycle.

The motorcycle slowed down which allowed the limousine to merge into the right lane, which it did.

The motorcycle got out of the way and the limousine entered the right lane where it passed directly under Simmons.

I know you'd like it if the limousine had only moved straight forward within the center lane, but it didn't.

I know you'd like it if Simmons had said the motorcycle was in front of the limousine - but he didn't.

Simmons only said the motorcycle was in the way which, as you can see, doesn't necessarily mean in front.

Jerry

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS NO MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE JFK LIMO BEFORE THE UNDERPASS.

IF THERE WAS A MOTORCYCLE AHEAD OF THE LIMO ON ELM AND THE Z FILM DOES NOT SHOW IT,

THE Z FILM HAS BEEN ALTERED.

You still don't get it. Elm has THREE LANES. The limo was in the CENTER LANE. The motorcyles were

in the NORTH and SOUTH lanes BEHIND THE LIMO. There were no motorcycles in the center lane.

Therefore, the only way a motorcycle could block the limo is if it PULLED IN FRONT of the limo.

The Zapruder Film shows NO MOTORCYCLE PULLING IN FRONT OF THE LIMO or CHANGING LANES.

If the Z film DOES NOT SHOW A MOTORCYCLE BLOCKING THE LIMO FROM MOVING FORWARD,

then the Z film is not accurate.

Only a dunce cannot grasp this simple concept.

(Posting a photo of an auto being cut off because of a lane leading to an exit ramp is a ridiculous

non sequitur. I ridicule this blatant misdirection and falsification.)

Jack

Jerry, I have studied these images for more than 30 years and know them far better than you do.

You have not yet told me anything new. You pretend to be an expert but are not. You are here to

obfuscate. And I have now DISCOVERED AN OVERLOOKED IMAGE OF CHANEY MOVING FORWARD

JUST AS DESCRIBED BY WITNESSES. However, I know you will not believe your eyes and will claim

that I am making things up.

Jack

See thread on Chaney Witnesses.

[Bernice Moore]

here it is david, if not found.......b,,,

What volume, please, is Chaney's testimony in? It's hard to search my online WCR complete.

+++

P. S. - I've always been a bit unnerved at the "passing of the Old Charter" in the underpass photo third from top. Amazing coincidence.

http://mcadams.posc....mony/curry1.htm A sharp report as a firecracker or as it was it was the report of this rifle.

We were just approaching an underpass, and there were some people around on each side of the underpass, up in the railroad yards, and I thought at first that perhaps this was a railroad torpedo, it was a sharp crack.

Inspector--no, it wasn't Inspector, it was Lawson of the Secret Service and Mr. Sorrels of the Dallas office of the Secret Service, and Sheriff Bill Decker and myself were in this car.

Mr. DULLES - I may be anticipating.

Mr. RANKIN - That is all right, go right ahead.

Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check."

And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.

Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports?

Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car.

Mr. RANKIN - You could distinctly hear and tell that the two later reports were from behind?

Mr. CURRY - Behind.

Mr. RANKIN - Rather than front?

Mr. CURRY - That is right.

Mr. RANKIN - You weren't sure whether the first one was from behind or in front?

Mr. CURRY - I couldn't tell because perhaps of the echo or the----

Representative FORD - Where were you sitting in the car, sir?

Mr. CURRY - I was driving.

Representative FORD - You were driving?

Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir.

Representative FORD - When you heard the first report, did you grab a communications set and give this order?

Mr. CURRY - Almost immediately.

Representative FORD - What was the order that you gave?

Mr. CURRY - As I recall it, "Get someone up in the railroad yard to check those people." There was already an officer up there.

Mr. RANKIN - How do you know that?

Mr. CURRY - They assigned officers to every overpass.

We went with the Secret Service, Batchelor and Chief Lunday had went over this route with Secret Service agents Lawson and Sorrels and they had run the route 2 or 3 days prior to this and pointed out every place where they wanted security officers, and we placed them there where they asked for them.

Mr. RANKIN - Did you see an officer there when you looked up?

Mr. CURRY - I couldn't recognize him, but I could see an officer whoever it was.

Representative FORD - Did you get this order over the PA system before the second and third shots?

Mr. CURRY - I don't believe so, I am not sure. I am not positive. Because they were in pretty rapid succession. But after I noticed some commotion in the President's car and a motorcycle officer ran up aside of me and I asked him what had happened and he said shots had been fired, and I said, "Has the President been hit or has the President's party been hit? And he said, "I am sure they have."

I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency, and this is approximately, I would say, perhaps a couple of miles or so to Parkland Hospital from this, and we went to Parkland and I notified them to have them to be standing by for an emergency, and we went out there under siren escort and went into the emergency entrance.

As I recall, I got out of the car and rushed to the emergency entrance --

Edited June 12, 2011 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

i do not know what happened, two threads came up when i went to post, sorry.:unsure:so Curry's testimony is now posted in both:ph34r: threads.. ..... ..b

Edited June 12, 2011 by Bernice Moore

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

[Ian Kingsbury]

I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

This is echoed By Brehm's Statement The second shot being the head shot aka "313" . and Altgens realises what they want and fluffs his lines and starts babbling.In plain sight ?.