De Mohrenschildt question of interest

[Thomas Graves]

As Oswald's wife, Marina was showing Jeanne around the apartment, they discovered Oswald's rifle leaning against the wall inside a closet.

Is it a signature of Russian emigre hospitality to open the closets to guests? The practice is unknown in the US unless one's mother drops in. It's not like the Oswalds had Kardashian-quantity clothes and possessions.

When I was living in the Czech Republic (formerly part of communist Czechoslovakia) in the 1990's, I noticed that older houses and apartments didn't have closets. They had large, free-standing pieces of furniture that we would call wardrobes. Maybe American closets were a new thing for Marina. Maybe she was proud to have an American closet, and wanted to show it off.

--Tommy

[Paul Brancato]

Good point

[Jim Root]

Bill

Thank you that coincides with Hemming belief that T-2 represented multiple sources....yours suggests that those multiple sources came from mail opening....since the wording that went to Hosty is so close to Oswald's own words have to believe that question is settled.

I am still wondering whom it was that "De Mohrenschildt claimed to have been in touch with the CIA about Oswald’s attempted assassination of General Walker. "I spoke to the CIA both before and afterwards. It was what ruined me."

and the interesting choice of words "It was what ruined me."

Jim Root

[Stephen Roy]

Walton Moore??

[Paul Trejo]

Bill

Thank you that coincides with Hemming belief that T-2 represented multiple sources....yours suggests that those multiple sources came from mail opening....since the wording that went to Hosty is so close to Oswald's own words have to believe that question is settled.

I am still wondering whom it was that "De Mohrenschildt claimed to have been in touch with the CIA about Oswald’s attempted assassination of General Walker.

"I spoke to the CIA both before and afterwards. It was what ruined me."

and the interesting choice of words "It was what ruined me."

Jim Root

Jim, according to Dick Russell (TMWKTM, 1992), the morning after George and Jeanne DM discovered the rifle at the Oswald apartment, was Easter Sunday 14 April 1963, and George visited his Russian friends, Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin early in the morning.

George told the couple about the suspicions that he and Jeanne had about Lee Harvey Oswald, and the Voshinins were shocked, and demanded that George inform the FBI right away. George refused, claiming he would never fink on his friends. But he left very worried.

The minute he left (as she told Dick Russell) Mrs. Voshinin picked up the phone and called the FBI and told them everything that George had told her.

So, the FBI had this information on Easter Sunday, 1963. George and Jeanne DM left the USA within days, and never saw the Oswalds again.

So -- did George DM tell the CIA about the Walker shooting, if he refused to tell the FBI about the Walker shooting?

I find Dick Russell's account easy to believe, since we have a sideways confirmation from General Walker himself. Here's Walker's letter to Senator Frank Church in 1975, admitting he knew about Oswald's name connected with his April 10th shooting "within days."

http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_Church_Oswald_released.pdf

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 21, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Root]

Paul

I am confused about the dates......I was under the impression that it was the 14th that DeM went to the Oswald's residence????

"On April 14, 1963, George de Mohrenschildt and his wife, Jeanne, visited the Oswalds' apartment. As Oswald's wife, Marina was showing Jeanne around the apartment, they discovered Oswald's rifle leaning against the wall inside a closet. Jeanne told George that Oswald had a rifle, and George joked to Oswald, 'Were you the one who took a pot-shot at General Walker?'"

Jim root

[Paul Trejo]

Paul

I am confused about the dates......I was under the impression that it was the 14th that DeM went to the Oswald's residence????

"On April 14, 1963, George de Mohrenschildt and his wife, Jeanne, visited the Oswalds' apartment. As Oswald's wife, Marina was showing Jeanne around the apartment, they discovered Oswald's rifle leaning against the wall inside a closet. Jeanne told George that Oswald had a rifle, and George joked to Oswald, 'Were you the one who took a pot-shot at General Walker?'"[/size]

Jim

Jim, no, that was somebody's error. George and Jeanne visited the Oswald's on Saturday the 13th -- around 10pm -- getting them out of bed.

It seems that George and Jeanne DM were worried since the early morning of Thursday 11 April 1963, after hearing of the Walker shooting.

THEY ALREADY SUSPECTED LEE HARVEY OSWALD. Furthermore, George worried more because he himself was partly to blame for it -- having pushed and goaded LHO to hate and despite General Walker since late January 1963, when Walker was acquitted of all charges for his role in the deadly Ole Miss race riot.

George admits in his "I'm A Patsy!" manuscript, that he and LHO would call General Walker, "General Fokker".in early 1963.

So, George was partly to blame, and he had a pretty good idea that Oswald was the culprit. George worried all Thursday, all Friday and all Saturday -- working out with Jeanne how they could be 100% sure of their suspicions.

Finally, at about 9:30 PM on Saturday night, Jeanne DM had an idea. They would go to a drug store and buy a toy Easter Bunny for baby June -- because Sunday was Easter Sunday.

Then, Jeanne would pretend that she wanted to see Oswald's new apartment, and ask to be shown around -- every room.

So, that's what they did. Nervous and worried, they drove to the Oswald's at about 10PM, and got them out of bed. Naturally the Oswald's put on their robes for their good friends, and welcomed them into their home for an Easter soft drink.

George kept LHO busy in one room chatting, as Jeanne nervously searched for clues from room to room. When she finally found LHO's rifle, she shouted out -- "He has a rifle!"

They all went over to see what Jeanne was looking at. There was a nervous silence, and then George broke the silence with a joke, that was already on his mind: "Lee, did you take that pot shot on General Walker?"

There was an even more deafening silence. Lee looked at Marina, wondering if she had said anything -- and Marina looked at Lee, wondering if he had said anything. They were both puzzled, and then George burst out laughing! And then Marina laughed, and then Lee laughed.

Jeanne didn't laugh, she told the WC, but George thought that she laughed, too.

Anyway, that was the end of the evening. The DM's said goodnight and they left -- and they never saw the Oswald's ever again.

It was early the next morning, Easter Sunday, that George DM paid a visit to his good Russian friends, Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin. As Dick Russell reports it (TMWKTM, 1992) George told the Voshinins everything -- and they urged him to call the FBI right away. But George said that he didn't fink on his friends.

Well, George already finked -- to the Voshinins. Also, George probably knew they couldn't keep that secret. As soon as George left the Voshinins on Easter Sunday morning, Mrs. Voshinin quickly called the FBI and told them everything George had said.

This alone explains, IMHO, how General Walker could find out "within days" that LHO had been his shooter, as he later claimed.

I expect to see an FBI report of Mrs. Voshinin's phone call on the morning of Easter Sunday 1963, as Dick Russell reported. I believe that this FBI report is still marked Top Secret in the ARRB to this very day.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 21, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

As Oswald's wife, Marina was showing Jeanne around the apartment, they discovered Oswald's rifle leaning against the wall inside a closet.

Is it a signature of Russian emigre hospitality to open the closets to guests? The practice is unknown in the US unless one's mother drops in. It's not like the Oswalds had Kardashian-quantity clothes and possessions.

- let's cut to the chase, why don't we...

[Tom Hume]

Paul,

Do we have any idea as to when Lee Oswald gave the backyard photo to George? Here’s why I’m asking: On the back of George’s photo, Oswald apparently wrote:

“Copyright G de M”

This anagrams to: “G de M, CIG TROPHY”

And it also anagrams to: “CIG TROPHY, 4/12/63”

(A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25)

Tom

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Do we have any idea as to when Lee Oswald gave the backyard photo to George? Here’s why I’m asking: On the back of George’s photo, Oswald apparently wrote:

“Copyright G de M”

This anagrams to: “G de M, CIG TROPHY”

And it also anagrams to: “CIG TROPHY, 4/12/63”

(A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25)

Tom

Tom, in my reading, LHO had several Backyard Photographs as early as April 2, when he was showing them off and handing them out. The first recorded time that I've read was the evening of April 2, when LHO showed Michael Paine one of the Backyard Photographs.

George and Jeanne DM never saw Oswald after Saturday 13th April 1963 -- so, my guess would be that they got their copy sometime between April 2nd and April 13th 1963.

However -- I also believe that LHO got the help of Roscoe White in his creation of the Fake Backyard Photographs. Roscoe White was a pal of LHO in the Marines. (Ricky White says his father, Roscoe, killed JD Tippit as well as JFK).

Jack White showed convincingly that the chin, neck, shoulders, right wrist and stance of the Backyard Photographs all belong to Roscoe White.

Remember, too, that Marina insisted multiple times to the WC that she only took "one" Backyard Photo with that Imperial Reflex camera.

This suggests to me that LHO used the tools as Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall sometime in March to create the Backyard Photographs -- while he still worked there. (LHO was fired on April 1st. Perhaps LHO was fired for abusing company equipment for personal use, i.e. precisely because of the Backyard Photographs.)

In any case -- LHO had plausible denial with the Backyard Photographs -- he could prove that they were Fakes!

So -- my best guess is that Marina took her single snapshot in March, LHO worked with Roscoe White to create four different versions of FAKE Backyard Photographs in March, and was fired because of it.

Then, on April 2nd, LHO showed Michael Paine one of the Backyard Photographs (as Pained admitted to Dan Rather in 1993). Then, perhaps on April 4th, knowing that George and Jeanne DM were getting ready to travel to Haiti for work, LHO signed one of the Backyard Photographs for George -- and Marina also added her two cents -- suggesting that Marina knew more about the Walker shooting than she wanted to admit. They gave this signed copy to George and Jeanne.

This was BEFORE the Walker shooting. It was a prediction of the Walker shooting. (Roscoe White might have been the second shooter with LHO, and they might have used Roscoe's car and even his rifle.)

The reason that George DM marked his copy of the Backyard Photograph with a Copyright © notice, was because he was about to give it to LIFE magazine in early 1964 -- and George wanted to be sure that any of the profits from the photo came back to him.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 21, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

rest assured of one thing: Marina Oswald knew very much.

when she came to know it is a side item, but by November 23, she was in knowledge of very likely a lot more than she wanted to know. probably long before Nov. 23 she was taught exactly what to know,

[Paul Trejo]

rest assured of one thing: Marina Oswald knew very much.

when she came to know it is a side item, but by November 23, she was in knowledge of very likely a lot more than she wanted to know. probably long before Nov. 23 she was taught exactly what to know,

I don't think that Marina Oswald was "taught" anything that she reported to the WC. We all know that Jim Garrison accused her of repeating what she was "taught" by the WC. But Garrison had his own agenda.

It was sheer dumb luck on the part of the WC that Marina Oswald knew so little about LHO's life and activities. She knew nothing about any of his many political friends. LHO kept her in the dark about everything. LHO lied to Marina continually.

Now -- things are somewhat different with the Walker shooting -- but here again, Marina actually TRIED to tell the WC everything she knew, and the WC simply pushed back at her! Here are some examples:

(1) Marina said she took ONE and ONLY ONE photograph of the Backyard pose of LHO with his weapons. The WC refused to accept this, and practically shouted to her that they had three poses, and so she MUST have taken all three. She denied it. This is a major clue to the BYP, and the WC didn't want to hear it!

(2) Marina said that LHO told her that "Michael Paine knows I shot at General Walker." The WC shut that down as quickly as they could. The WC didn't want to hear it!

(3) Marina said that George De Mohrenschildt knew more about the Walker shooting; and advised the WC to ask him. They did, and George denied it quickly, and the WC just stopped right there. However, in his HCSA affidavit (I'm A Patsy!), George DM admitted that he and Lee used to go around calling General Walker, "General Fokker." George DM knew a lot more about the Walker shooting than he wanted to admit -- BUT THE WC DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR IT. The "Lone Nut" was all they wanted to hear about!

Also, Marina told the WC all about the photographs that Oswald made of the Walker residence, and of the scrapbook that he kept, with maps, and so on.

Also, Marina told the WC LHO's story of the shooting -- as if it were true -- namely, that LHO was (i) alone; (ii) on foot; (iii) buried his rifle. All three of those factors were LIES, and this is true to form -- LHO lied to Marina continually.

Marina's ignorance about LHO's activities and associates was the greatest luck for the WC who *insisted* that LHO had to be a "Lone Nut." As far as Marina was concerned, this jerk who tried to assassinate one of their neighbors really was a friggin' nut. He never did anything that stupid in the USSR.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Martin Blank]

The reason that George DM marked his copy of the Backyard Photograph with a Copyright © notice, was because he was about to give it to LIFE magazine in early 1964 -- and George wanted to be sure that any of the profits from the photo came back to him.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

He would have negotiated a fee for the picture's use before he turned it over.

[Glenn Nall]

rest assured of one thing: Marina Oswald knew very much.

when she came to know it is a side item, but by November 23, she was in knowledge of very likely a lot more than she wanted to know. probably long before Nov. 23 she was taught exactly what to know,

I don't think that Marina Oswald was "taught" anything that she reported to the WC. We all know that Jim Garrison accused her of repeating what she was "taught" by the WC. But Garrison had his own agenda.

It was sheer dumb luck on the part of the WC that Marina Oswald knew so little about LHO's life and activities. She knew nothing about any of his many political friends. LHO kept her in the dark about everything. LHO lied to Marina continually.

Now -- things are somewhat different with the Walker shooting -- but here again, Marina actually TRIED to tell the WC everything she knew, and the WC simply pushed back at her! Here are some examples:

(1) Marina said she took ONE and ONLY ONE photograph of the Backyard pose of LHO with his weapons. The WC refused to accept this, and practically shouted to her that they had three poses, and so she MUST have taken all three. She denied it. This is a major clue to the BYP, and the WC didn't want to hear it!

(2) Marina said that LHO told her that "Michael Paine knows I shot at General Walker." The WC shut that down as quickly as they could. The WC didn't want to hear it!

(3) Marina said that George De Mohrenschildt knew more about the Walker shooting; and advised the WC to ask him. They did, and George denied it quickly, and the WC just stopped right there. However, in his HCSA affidavit (I'm A Patsy!), George DM admitted that he and Lee used to go around calling General Walker, "General Fokker." George DM knew a lot more about the Walker shooting than he wanted to admit -- BUT THE WC DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR IT. The "Lone Nut" was all they wanted to hear about!

Also, Marina told the WC all about the photographs that Oswald made of the Walker residence, and of the scrapbook that he kept, with maps, and so on.

Also, Marina told the WC LHO's story of the shooting -- as if it were true -- namely, that LHO was (i) alone; (ii) on foot; (iii) buried his rifle. All three of those factors were LIES, and this is true to form -- LHO lied to Marina continually.

Marina's ignorance about LHO's activities and associates was the greatest luck for the WC who *insisted* that LHO had to be a "Lone Nut." As far as Marina was concerned, this jerk who tried to assassinate one of their neighbors really was a friggin' nut. He never did anything that stupid in the USSR.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, please explain Marina's "locking Lee in the bathroom" story. i'm sorry - stories.

[Chris Newton]

Paul, please explain Marina's "locking Lee in the bathroom" story. i'm sorry - stories.

I'm also curious to know how someone gets locked in a bathroom. Bathroom door locks don't normally work that way. In fact, I don't ever recall seeing a bathroom door that could be locked from the outside that did not have a latch or device to allow the occupant to unlock the door from the inside.

Some institutions like hospitals and places of business have the ability to lock their bathrooms but in a normal domestic household this would be a unique (and dangerous) feature.