Jump to content
The Education Forum

Mary's Polaroid, no shooting there

John Butler

Recommended Posts

I don’t think anyone fired a shot at the presidential limousine as it passed the Grassy Knoll.  If someone did, then they missed and the shot went into the grass in the grassy area between Elm Street and Main Street.  The best evidence on this is Mary Moorman’s Polaroid. 

To demonstrate this I will use the Parkland Doctor’s description of the Kennedy head wound.  This was attested to by 40 medical people at Parkland Hospital. The head wound was caused by a shot that struck President Kennedy’s right temple and exited in the rear of his head in the occipital region. 

The firing angles for that wound are all wrong there at the Grassy Knoll for that shot.  If someone shot President Kennedy from the Badge Man’s position then it would look something like this.


Although others say different, I consider the Mannlicher Carcano a high powered rifle.  It fires a round at about 2,000 feet per second. The Mannlicher has enough velocity and power to pass through two bodies.  Other rifles need to be considered also.

The black line shows the firing angle from the Badge Man’s position.  Jackie Kennedy would have been wounded as the round passed through President Kennedy and perhaps killed her.

At the least she would have been covered with blood and other body materials.  This is not evident in photos taken afterwards.  Her clothing and hair are not heavily covered with blood and other matter.

What about other places on the Grassy Knoll.  There could have been other shooters or shooting from other places on the Grassy Knoll.  The next modified copy of Mary Moorman’s Polaroid attempts to deal with that issue.


The firing angles in this photo are still wrong.  They indicate that the further you move to the west the greater the opportunity to place correctly the firing angle to produce President Kennedy’s head wound in front of the Grassy Knoll.

There, I have placed myself into deep water.  In other posts I have said it is not possible to prove someone fired a shot from the 6th floor sniper’s nest beyond a reasonable doubt.  

Here I’m saying that when the limousine was in front of the Grassy Knoll no one fired at the President from the Grassy Knoll. If someone did, they missed.

Well, we know that someone shot the President from some place.  But, from where did that happen?



Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like probably everyone here, I have watched the Zapruder film hundreds if not thousands of times over decades.

In every film speed and close up views I could find.

Despite reading ( and considering ) hundreds of different takes on the head wound bullet trajectory and entry location, I still see what looks to me as a rear entry with a right frontal lobe and upper side above the ear blow-out.

At the time of impact, I see shattered skull bone chunks with hair attached flapping outward in that right front side area as if they were blown out from inward and behind. 

I also see a mist of reddish/pink blood and probably brain matter spraying above and all around JFK's head with an added trajectory of something more solid shooting up vertically from the same blow out area. 

The strongest explanation I could figure as to why the two DPD motorcycle officers behind the  limo were sprayed so noticeably with JFK's blood and brain matter was that the upward and outward spray would naturally settle in back of the forward moving limo, versus a rear head blow out one.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Ray is talking about near the end of the fence, where it juts out, then I agree.

Having walked that whole length of the fence, that seems to me to be the best firing position.

As per the damage done to JFK's skull--look, to me this is a non sequitur.  For the simple reason that no one is ever going to know the truth about that topic since John Kennedy had the worst autopsy ever.  And that is not me saying that.  Its people like Milton Halpern and Michael Baden.  

I mean, if the brain was not weighed at autopsy, and it was not, and if the facsimile in the HSCA report agrees with about no eyewitness, and it doesn't, and if Stringer said he did not take those  pictures, as he did to Jeremy Gunn, and if the particle trails in the top of the skull do not agree with the pathologists' entry point, and they do not, then how can anyone make any positive statements about what the skull damage should be? 

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, Jim, I mean the drain opening in the curb of the sidewalk in front of the lamp-post to the west of the path and stairs up the grassy knoll.

Interesting side note.

Sam Pate- News reporter for KBOX radio station, Dallas.

Sam Pate's car was moving at a speed of about 20 to 25mph, and was approximately 40 to 50 yards in front of the motorcade when the shots rang out. Startled, Pate stopped broadcasting but left his radio recorder running. Looking into his rear view mirror he saw the Presidential limousine slow down as it came to the curve in front of the grassy knoll.

Then he observed a puff of smoke coming from the sewer and watched as the limo picked up speed and headed towards him.

Edited by Ray Mitcham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never liked the storm drain idea for shooting in Dealey Plaza.  I'm not saying it is not possible.  What I saying it is the wrong angle for the Parkland head wound and it is also the wrong angle for the Warren Commission head wound.  The firing angle is firing upward from the pavement.  If someone did shoot from there they missed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Ray is talking about near the end of the fence, where it juts out, then I agree

Mr. DiEugenio,

There's a problem in firing from a more westward position at the very end of the fence.  Officer J. W. Foster and about 10 railroad workers were there.  It gives one a better firing position.  But, there are problems with it.


Edited by John Butler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, the best place to produce this head wound of President Kennedy's in front of the Grassy Knoll is from the Triple Underpass.  What was the first thing Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry said on the radio?  Roughly paraphrased he said, “Get someone up on the underpass to see what’s going on up there”.

I have never favored this location, the Triple Underpass, for a shooter in Dealey Plaza.  Two Dallas Police Officers, J. C. White and J. W. Foster were stationed on the railroad bridge.  Off the railroad bridge were about 10 railroad workers with Officer J. W. Foster.

Shooting from the railroad bridge would look something like this.


I have been to Dealey Plaza and the absolute best position to shoot east on Elm Street is the Triple Underpass.  The best place to shoot west on Elm Street is the Dal-Tex building.  This would establish a decent crossfire without worrying too much about hitting your comrades down range.  Ricochets from shooting from the Triple Underpass could hit civilians in the crosswalk or the Dal-Tex building.  It might also explain bullet holes in the Dal-Tex.  Maybe?

This might explain why Altgens 5 and the Zapruder film show two different and mutually exclusive groups there at the Elm Street crosswalk.  There was no one there in the crosswalk? Maybe?

I have never put any faith in this notion.  That’s because of the two police officers, J. C. White and J. W. Foster.  

In order to explain how a shot could be made from the Triple Underpass one would have to go into a long, argumentative explanation about a train passing through at the time of the assassination.  It is the one that Officer J. C. White testified to, a long, slow freight train.  I call this invisible train the Ghost Train of Dealey Plaza.  That discussion involves the authenticity of Altgens 7.

There is evidence for this position.  But, there is also evidence saying otherwise.  Here’s an example.

James Tague in his testimony said he heard firecracker sounds.  He was standing on Main St. almost under the railroad bridge.  How could he have firecracker sounds if a train was passing by overhead? 

I grew up in Central Kentucky near the L & N railroad.  If you are standing that close to a train then that’s all you hear is train noise when a train passes by.

One would have to speculate that the train stopped briefly, perhaps for 20 or 30 seconds.  This would give time for James Tague to hear firecracker sounds.  It would also give time for a shooter to shoot from a boxcar into the limousine on Elm Street.  You can have a field day with this kind of reasoning.  Pro or Con. 

So, where is the best place to shoot from the Grassy Knoll to make President Kennedy’s head wound?  A shot from the Grassy Knoll to the SW corner of the TSBD could produce President Kennedy’s head wound as described by Parkland Doctors.  Many witnesses claimed hearing shots from the Grassy Knoll. 

If a rifle shot is close up then you would probably say that it came from someplace.  If the rifle shot is more distant, let’s say in the example above, than you more than likely would be able to tell which direction it came from but, not the exact location.

Could someone standing in front of the TSBD be able to tell the difference between shooting from the Grassy Knoll and the Triple Underpass?  Maybe.  Maybe, someone experienced?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it has been plausibly argued that the head shot came from the south end of the overpass, just clearing the windshield. The shot would hit him in the right temple as his head was turned toward his left. It blew out the "flap" and exited the right rear of his head.

It is interesting to note that Tague encountered a uniformed policeman under the south end of the overpass right after the shots. The officer asked him "what happened." Where did that officer come from? Tague later changed his story to say it was the sheriff's deputy, who came all the way from the east. Why did that police officer vanish from Tague's story?








Edited by Ron Ecker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • I agree with Joe Bauer. I think the fatal head shot came from behind the fence on top of the grassy knoll .. There was an eyewitness-a railroad worker named Lee Bowers who said he saw a puff of smoke come from behind the fence.  Lee Bowers died an unnatural death (in an accident(?)) in 1966- the same as many other witnesses whose story was in contradiction to the Warren Commission narrative .
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, now to President Kennedy’s Hollywood black patch.  The Hollywood black patch is described by Jim Marrs in Crossfire, 2013.  On page 512 titled “Hollywood Takes a Look” Marrs states that Sylvia Wilkinson, a Hollywood professional with 20 years experience began to look a the Zapruder film under very high resolution.  She said she was stunned by what she saw. 

She said “When I viewed the frames following the head shot, I felt the hair stand up on the back of my neck,” she recalled “In the frames that weren’t blurry—frames 317, 321, 323, and others—a solid back “patch” on the rear of the head jumped out at me.  It was clearly artificial.”

I think you can see this heavily shadowed area or Hollywood black patch area as early as Z frame 240 when you can start looking at the back of President Kennedy’s head.


Can we see it in other films and photos?  Yes.  Just start looking.  A good example is in the Moorman Polaroid above.

Part of the depth of blackness in this shadow may come from someone sharpening the picture.  On the other hand it is an unusually long shadow in comparison to the other figures in the limousine. 

What do I think?  President Kennedy was dead when he passed the Grassy Knoll and was DOA at Parkland Hospital.  A person simply does not survive such a massive head wound long.

It is my considered opinion he was ambushed and shot in the intersection of Elm Street and Houston Street and killed in the front of the TSBD.  With the last shot coming from the Grassy Knoll when the presidential limousine was at or just past the SW corner of the TSBD on Elm and Street.

The last shot looked like this with the two X’s marking the firing angle.  This is the only firing trajectory that can produce the Parkland Hospital head wound from the Grassy Knoll.


This photo shows a simple but effective L shaped ambush.  The killing zone is in front of the Grassy Knoll for this scenario.  According to the X’s, I have moved the last shot further back to be in front of the TSBD.  If you look at this photo it offers a greater killing zone then just in front of the Grassy Knoll.  To do the job effectively you need more than 6 or 7 seconds and a small killing zone.  The ambush was mis-planned and botched because of the planning.  Shooting at moving targets with a bolt action rifle and scope is not the smartest of ideas.   I question the use of a scope at all at those distances.  There are no long distance shots anywhere to test a marksman.

I don’t agree with the placement and number of shooters in this example.  But, it does highlight an L shaped ambush.  I would include shooting in front of the Court Records Building.  And, I would add, though there is very little evidence for it, the intersection of Main and Houston.

In a survey of 50 witnesses who were the closest to the 6th floor sniper’s nest, which includes 10 who said they saw some activity at the TSBD.  These people were in the building, standing out front of the TSBD, and on Houston Street.  24 out of 50 or 48% said that they heard shots when the president’s limousine turned into the intersection of Elm Street and Houston Street or when the president’s limousine was in front of the TSBD. 

That’s enough reasonable doubt to question both sides of the argument on how President Kennedy was assassinated.

Here is one last thing to add to the doubt of the traditional stories of President Kennedy’s death.  These are gifts of understanding from Tina Towner. 

Somebody didn’t want you to see what is happening here.


Can you read the writing here.  This is what I call the “hit x” frame in Tina Towner.  You will not see this unless you look at the Tina Towner film one frame at a time.


Edited by John Butler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So much being discussed about from where the shot that killed Kennedy came from as if the bullet was a through and through shot, which it was not. The bullet was a tangential strike to the President's skull. Two things will happen from a tangential strike. One is that the brain will appear to have been shredded instead of having more of a refined bored hole through it. And the other is that the bullet can change direction as it passes through the head. Then there is the possible fragmenting of the lead which can have pieces go on several directions.

Here is a link showing a tangential bullet strike hitting water alone. Start at the 2:50 second mark and watch what happens to the 357 bullet when it hits the water. That bullet shed its energy so fast that it made an abrupt turn in short order. The bullet that fractured the bone plate could have done the same thing inside the President's head and probably did.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/23/2017 at 8:53 AM, John Butler said:

I don’t think anyone fired a shot at the presidential limousine as it passed the Grassy Knoll.  If someone did, then they missed and the shot went into the grass in the grassy area between Elm Street and Main Street.  The best evidence on this is Mary Moorman’s Polaroid.

The line drawn onto the Moorman photo does not start at the Badge Man location. The limo is several feet west from its location at Z312/313.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe Dr. Kemp Clark from Parkland Memorial suggested a tangential wound for the back of the President's head.

Yes, the line I drew is slightly off.  It is roughly in the Badge Man's position.  If you notice in the following Polaroid shooting from anywhere close does not match for the Parkland Hospital head wound. 

If you look at the Polaroids that follow you will see 3 small red figures.  The Polaroids that show the 3 red small figures was from an article suggesting that there was no Badge Man because what is shown as Badge Man and Co. are to small to be real people.  Hence, anywhere near is acceptable. 

Edited by John Butler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in

Sign In Now

  • Create New...