The Discoveries of Jim Garrison

[Ty Carpenter]

22 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

To pilot a planeload of conspirators to Mexico or Central America has been a popular supposition.

I am aware of that theory. But to me, it seems the ferrying of conspirators would have needed or would have been preferred to be done sooner than later. Everything I am aware of about the trip gives me the feeling it was a hastily planned last minute endeavor. I tend to believe he was headed there to make sure LHO didn't or couldn't talk. I very well think the escape plane may have been handled by Barry Seal as seen in the story posted by Mr. Caddy a few days ago.

[David Andrews]

2 hours ago, Ty Carpenter said:

I am aware of that theory. But to me, it seems the ferrying of conspirators would have needed or would have been preferred to be done sooner than later. Everything I am aware of about the trip gives me the feeling it was a hastily planned last minute endeavor. I tend to believe he was headed there to make sure LHO didn't or couldn't talk. I very well think the escape plane may have been handled by Barry Seal as seen in the story posted by Mr. Caddy a few days ago.

I don't dispute you, but how could silencing Oswald be accomplished by Ferrie waiting for a phone call at a skating rink?  Who would have needed Ferrie's convincing on that?

Someone once suggested (I forget where I read this) that Ferrie went to take that call because he was trying to save Oswald from execution.  Can't provide details on this.

Whatever he did, Ferrie brought two teenage boys, which suggests he needed cover and alibis.  If he was going to fly someone out, what would he have done with the boys?  Alternately, if he had some in-town action or meeting planned, he would have needed to ditch them for a time.

Maybe he was the bagman for some payoff.

So, who knows?  Like to see Jim Di's take on this one, or any other opinion or research.

[James DiEugenio]

If you believe as I do that Ferrie's excuses were pure baloney, then I think you have to consider that he ended up at a motel that sits directly on the bay of Galveston, called the Alamont or something like that. And there is a question as to when he arrived there.  I actually went there one day when I was traveling through Texas.

In other words, it would have been possible for Ferrie to have taken out, or assisted in taking out, part of the hit team either by air or by sea.

Your other point Ty, about monitoring what Oswald was saying, is quite viable I think also. Although, like Dave I don't think he would have been part of any execution team there.

Edited September 14, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Bulman]

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron, 

 

See pages 215-16 of Destiny Betrayed, Second Edition for the diagram of Dealey Plaza..

I guess I have seen it then and forgotten I did.  I'll refresh my memory. 

[James DiEugenio]

Paul,  

IMO I do not necessarily think that the cover up and crime were separate and distinct.

I think that it is quite possible that two things happened that allowed the cover up to ensue but were actually designed to do so:

1.  The murder of Tippit, which as people like Garrison have said, triggered a very corrupt police force to act like a bunch of mad dogs in thinking that they guy who killed TIppit has to have killed Kennedy.  And

2.) The Mexico City maze which threw much of official Washington into a CYA mode when they learned that Oswald had met with Kostikov down there,--which we know today almost certainly did not happen.  And BTW, Garrison also predicted that when he wrote to Lou Ivon in early 1968 that the more he looked at Mexico City, the more he thought it was the key to the crime.  Which is what i have come to think also.

As per the autopsy, there has never been any explanation as to what all those military types were doing there.   IN fact, all we have is a volunteer list of how many were there that night. We do not even know where they got off telling the pathologists what to do.  But I think the probability that LeMay was there is very high.  I mean someone edited the AF 1 tapes to disguise the fact he was flying into Washington that afternoon from Michigan!  And through SAC, LeMay was close to the CIA.   There are too many sources--Jenkins and Custer to name two-- who say that that atmosphere there that night was almost a circus.  And if LeMay was smoking a cigar there, as O'Connor said he was, then that denotes some kind of celebration, at least to me.

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Dan Doyle]

JIm,

What about Clay "Bertrand" Shaw's call to Dean Andrews on Nov. 23 asking Andrews to provide legal representation for Oswald?  Gotta be #18 on your list, because Garrison developed that lead.  And of course, this call of Nov 23 was the basis for Garrison's prosecution of Shaw.  Something I haven't come across in my reading  is why Shaw would make such a request of Andrews; because Shaw must have understood that he would come under scrutiny for  doing this    In any case, I think Shaw's call to Andrews could be evidence of a double cross to the NOLA crowd(which included Oswald) in Dallas.

As for Ferrie's road trip to Houston on the afternoon/evening, I've read that there was/is a general aviation airport in the general area of the skating rink   Very convenient for Ferrie to fly people out of the country .   

One of the most impressive early books is Joachim Joesten's Assassin or Fall Guy, written before the Warren Report came out   In fact, I wonder how much this work influenced Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement because Joesten was big lefty(lived in France) couldn't get this book published in the US.  His kids are the reason it's available today in the US  

Thanks for the thread

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roger DeLaria]

Jim,

Regarding your #2 from above:

2.) The Mexico City maze which threw much of official Washington into a CYA mode when they learned that Oswald had met with Kostikov down there,--which we know today almost certainly did not happen.  And BTW, Garrison also predicted that when he wrote to Lou Ivon in early 1968 that the more he looked at Mexico City, the more he thought it was the key to the crime.  Which is what i have come to think also.

Why and how do you think Mexico City is the key to the crime? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that, I just want to understand.

[Ron Bulman]

Jim, correct me if I'm wrong again, please, but...  In the course of Garrison's investigation is it not almost incomprehensible that Texas Governor John Connally would block the extradition of Sergio Aracha Smith from Dallas?  But for an inch or two on the shot that hit him during the assassination he could be dead.  One might think he would be all for an investigation of who shot at him and JFK since he never believed he was hit by the same shot (the Magic, Pristine Bullet).  He carried more lead to his grave from it than was missing from it in his leg.  I guess he got the message.  Also why he switched to the republican party in 73?  

Edited September 15, 2017 by Ron Bulman

[James DiEugenio]

To Dan Doyle:

Yes I agree about the Bertrand call being important.  The call was not discovered by Garrison, but the identity of the caller was discovered by him.  I have always thought that the call to Andrews was a mistake by Shaw.  Something done in a kind of panic because he was isolated as a part of the plot and did not know the full extent of what was going on.  And because Oswald was not killed at the Texas Theater.  I think he called Andrews because he knew Andrews would screw up Oswald's defense, and if not, he could be compromised about it. And I agree about Joesten's book being a good early one.  On BOR tonight I talked about how he was spied upon by the CIA and FBI in 1964.  Its in the new documents.

 

To Roger:

Let me state this beforehand about MC:  I do not think Oswald was there; but if he was, he did not do the things that the WC and CIA said he did. Therefore, what was created was a legend to incriminate Oswald as an unstable commie former  defector who was talking to the assassination expert for the KGB seven weeks before the murder of Kennedy. And who was trying to get an in transit visa through Cuba to the USSR.  Which, BTW, would take about seven weeks to achieve.  And which, BTW, he was eventually granted.

Now, very little, if any of this crucial info was disseminated to anyone in the filed in the seven week interim from when Oswald left MC and the assassination.  And odd  things occurred, like Oswald begin taken off the watch list, which effected that vacuum.  When this startling info was finally made public, through the CIA on 11/22, it created an uproar inside the Washington intel colony.  And it also caused LBJ to use it as a threat to get people like Russell and Warren onto the cover up.  He specifically said that if not, there would be a nukefest which would cause the deaths of 40 million because the finger pointed to Moscow.  Which, of course, was complete BS.  Which all indicates to me that this malarkey was fabricated in advance.  And BTW, at Bill Davy's talk at VMI, which will be up soon at K and K, Warren realized later that he had been snookered by Johnson on this.  And he was very upset about it.

To Ron:

The whole thing about shielding SAS in Dallas, that was at first run by Hugh Aynseworth and the Dallas Police.  When it was obvious they were protecting Smith, that is when Garrison tried to extradite him.  I think it was made clear to JBC by this time, which way the wind was blowing.  And he decided to play along in public for the good of his future political career.  Even though he knew the WCR was a pile of malarkey.  That he kept to himself.  A piece of misguided patriotism which many people in high positions decided to wed themselves to.

Edited September 15, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let me add another Garrison first.  Again, one which no one talks about, or even knows about.

Edwin Black's long lost essay on the Chicago Plot to kill JFK was one of the most important pieces written on the subject in the entire decade of the seventies. For whatever reason, it was  ignored by the group of authors who took the forefront about that time i.e. Paul Hoch, Peter Scott, Summers and Evica.  

It was rediscovered in the nineties and it later had a prominent role in Jim Douglass' book, JFK and the Unspeakable.

But what very few people know is that Jim Garrison sent one of his investigators to interview Abe Bolden while he was in prison.  That predates Edwin Black's essay by about 8 years.

And the work by both Black and Douglass, which showed all the similarities between the two plots indicates that the city of Dallas was not primary in the conspiracy.  For the people planning the assassination, it was a convenient backdrop.  And let us never forget the codename of the guy who dropped a dime to inform the FBI about the Chicago Plot.

It was 'Lee'.

Addendum: Please read this fine article which outlines and compares the three previous scenarios to kill JFK, in Chicago, LA and Tampa.  Pay special attention to the final chart in which Paul outlines the similar techniques used.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-three-failed-plots-to-kill-jfk-the-historians-guide-on-how-to-research-his-assassination

Edited September 15, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Cory Santos]

Is there a document or report which confirms that it was "Lee" who reported one of the alleged teams?  In other words, is this based on a government document or someone stating it?

Thanks.

[James DiEugenio]

This info was in Black's essay.

He did not reveal his source for it.  Which was quite understandable since he found out that he was being surveilled while he did that investigation.

[Cliff Varnell]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

And the work by both Black and Douglass, which showed all the similarities between the two plots indicates that the city of Dallas was not primary in the conspiracy.  For the people planning the assassination, it was a convenient backdrop.  And let us never forget the codename of the guy who dropped a dime to inform the FBI about the Chicago Plot.

It was 'Lee'.

Addendum: Please read this fine article which outlines and compares the three previous scenarios to kill JFK, in Chicago, LA and Tampa.  Pay special attention to the final chart in which Paul outlines the similar techniques used.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-three-failed-plots-to-kill-jfk-the-historians-guide-on-how-to-research-his-assassination

[emphasis added]

How does that square with this?

Quote

2.) The Mexico City maze which threw much of official Washington into a CYA mode when they learned that Oswald had met with Kostikov down there,--which we know today almost certainly did not happen.  And BTW, Garrison also predicted that when he wrote to Lou Ivon in early 1968 that the more he looked at Mexico City, the more he thought it was the key to the crime.  Which is what i have come to think also.

 

There's an unproven assumption by most JFK assassination researchers which conflates the plot to kill Kennedy with the plot to murder the sheep-dipped patsy.

How could the KGB-colluding Oswald-in-Mexico City be central to a plot originally designed for Chicago?

Edited September 15, 2017 by Cliff Varnell

[James DiEugenio]

Uh Cliff, obviously when the Chicago plot was foiled, they had a  fall back.

In that one, MC was key.

You obviously did not look at the Paul Bleau article that I posted. 

[Cliff Varnell]

3 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Uh Cliff, obviously when the Chicago plot was foiled, they had a  fall back.

In that one, MC was key.

You obviously did not look at the Paul Bleau article that I posted. 

You're obviously missing the point.  The clique which planned and executed the murder of JFK wasn't the same crew as those who planned and executed the murder of LHO.

MC was the key to the murder of Oswald, not Kennedy.

These were compartmentalized operations. 

Those who killed Kennedy may not have shared the primary motivation as those who set up then killed Oswald.  The former may have been primarily motivated by a change in Vietnam policy, while the latter may have been more motivated by a US take-over of Cuba.