Witten's report on Oswald in Mexico just released

[Jim Hargrove]

13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Have you considered maintaining a list longer than 20 entries? Even if only on your website? I find the Ann Egerter HSCA one to be definitive. A lesser one is the question, why won't Oswald's tax returns be released? (Though in that case it could be because of FBI income.)

Thanks.... I'm considering it now....  Here's my revised list of 21 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA.  Fact #20 is Ann Egerter's testimony.  Not sure where to put it on my website.  That site is dedicated to John Armstrong's research....

21 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.”

2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963.

3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s.

4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962.

5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 

6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA "contact" who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child.

7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and probably monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death.

8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE.

9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA.

10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination.

11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report.

12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots.

13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear.

14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story.

15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, and he said that the CIA and the FBI ignored his warnings.

16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.”  For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations.

17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs….

18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again!

19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.”

20. CIA's Ann Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....”  When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct."  When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one."

21. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, as evidenced by Arthur Krock's infamous defense of the Agency in the Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times. “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[Rob Couteau]

A great list, and thanks for the scan of the article which is most revealing.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Rob Couteau

[Rob Couteau]

Sandy and Michael,

 

I should clarify that I have no doubt that the Oswald was a CIA asset of some sort; I am raising the question in a more general sense regarding anyone who has a 201 file. And Sandy, you are right about  Angleton and his crew.  Richard Bissell directed William Harvey to create ZR/RIFLE, part of which according to Harvey was to "create phony 201" files, in order to create scapegoats. Phony can also mean doctoring existing 201 files.

Michael, this along with Egerter's testimony from the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), is covered in detail, for example, in JFK and the Unspeakable, pp. 143-146, most of which you can see here (below). She is asked: " ... it seems that the purpose of CI/SIG was very limited and that limited purpose was [sic] being to investigate Agency employees who were for some reason under suspicion." To this she replies "That is correct." Douglas concludes that she was in this way tricked into admitting that Oswald was an employee (since the discussion was about 201s and not about Oswald, she fell into the trap). But my question concerns whether 201s may in fact be opened for reasons other than someone being "suspected one way or another.”

https://books.google.com/books?id=KS-6XrdalGkC&pg=PA146&lpg=PA146&dq=ann+Egerter+testimony+hsca+oswald&source=bl&ots=1jO79VtQDB&sig=pA3pTsg3Jlje3jENRBRiDy0jnd8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4iuHKg8zXAhWFRCYKHbLlDJcQ6AEIUjAI#v=onepage&q=ann Egerter testimony hsca oswald&f=false

This is from Jim D's site, regarding Earle Cabell and his 201 file:

https://kennedysandking.com/news-items/what-is-new-in-the-files

Edited November 20, 2017 by Rob Couteau

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

20. CIA's Ann Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....”  When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct."  When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one."

 

That's perfect!

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Rob Couteau said:

But my question concerns whether 201s may in fact be opened for reasons other than someone being "suspected one way or another.”

 

Rob,

Yes, 201 files can be opened on people who are of operational interest to the CIA. It is only when the file is opened in the CI/SIG division that the person is a CIA employee who is under suspicion.

What you wrote, about CI/SIG 201 files being used to create scapegoats, is indeed what I recall reading about. I didn't get the impression from what I read that this was actually done, only that it was somebody's idea.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Rob Couteau]

Sandy, Thanks, that answers my question. Very interesting. And this clarifies that Cabell probably fell into the operational interest  category.

[Jim Hargrove]

12 hours ago, Rob Couteau said:

This is from Jim D's site, regarding Earle Cabell and his 201 file:

https://kennedysandking.com/news-items/what-is-new-in-the-files

Fascinating.... Thanks to Jim Di for this.  Jim concludes that "Earle Cabell was CIA."

Let us not forget that Earle Cabell was mayor of Dallas on 11/22/63.  Dallas Deputy Sheriff Bill Corson thought Cabell pressured Jesse Curry to order the transfer of Harvey Oswald that led to his shooting by Ruby.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Fascinating.... Thanks to Jim Di for this.  Jim concludes that "Earle Cabell was CIA."

Let us not forget that Earle Cabell was mayor of Dallas on 11/22/63.  Dallas Deputy Sheriff Bill Corson thought Cabell pressured Jesse Curry to order the transfer of Harvey Oswald that led to his shooting by Ruby.

David - regarding Cabell, I've never heard that bit before - that Corson thought Cabell pressured Curry to transfer Oswald. Interesting, and leads not just to CIA but military also.

[Michael Walton]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Dallas Deputy Sheriff Bill Corson thought Cabell pressured Jesse Curry to order the transfer of Harvey Oswald that led to his shooting by Ruby.

Oh Jim you just had to slip that "Harvey Oswald" in there LOL.

The thread was moving along nicely and quite a few have finally  come around  to  seeing  the  light on Bill Simpich's great work...and then HARVEY.

LOL

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, Curry was on the phone with Cabell at the very moment of Oswald being moved to the elevator.

Also Jim, I don't know if you are aware of this, but the entire declassified HSCA executive session examination of Wilcott is now declassified without one single redaction.  Can you imagine that!  Not one.

This guy seems to me more credible than he was given credit for.  He actually names names in his deposition of people who he talked to about Oswald being a CIA agent.  I was not aware of that.  Also, there was an SR division in the Tokyo station, I was not aware of that either. And he says that station was one of the biggest the CIA had, fully staffed, well over 200 people worked there.

Edited November 21, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Jim Hargrove]

Fascinating about Curry and Cabell, Jim.  Do you have a link to Wilcott's unredacted testimony? So far, I haven't been able to find it.

[Michael Walton]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Fascinating about Curry and Cabell, Jim.  Do you have a link to Wilcott's unredacted testimony? So far, I haven't been able to find it.

So Jim.  How is all of this going to fit into the HardlyLee story (OK, OK, I'm stealing Greg Parker's hilarious name for the Harvey and Lee fairy tale)?

I've not seen this guy's report that JD mentions above - that he names names and says "...deposition of people who he talked to about Oswald being a CIA agent." So if Witten's report is true and he says all of this, it's going to be very, very difficult to fit the HardlyLee round peg into the real-life square hole that is the Oswald story.

You and all believers of HardlyLee will then have to ask yourself "How could this guy Witten - saying all that he is saying in this report and not a one time mentioning that another CIA agent - the clone called Harvey - was also involved?"

At this point, it's going to be extremely far-fetched that no one would mention it and he (Witten) would then hear from someone about it.

[James DiEugenio]

Mike:

I don't know what on earth you are talking about.  "You and all believers..."  Can you please point out where I have ever said that?  Or where I have participated in the debate here? 

I deliberately steer clear of those things.  I just cannot waste my time there since there are so many files being released right now and hardly anyone is reading them.

If you want to trash Armstrong, join up with ROKC.  I mean they do it all the time.  But you probably already have.

 

Jim, I will try and see if I can get you an electronic copy of WIlcott's testimony.  

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Thanks for the doc #, Jim.  Couldn't find it on MFF (the copy I found there still had redactions) but I should be able to dig it up at the Archives.

[Anthony Thorne]

I didnt see any redactions in this version.  I could be wrong.  I’d never heard of Wilcott’s testimony till this morning btw.  http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/secclass/pdf/Wilcott_3-22-78.pdf