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Building rooftops: imagine Dealey Plaza...


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Chief Inspector Michael Torina, WHO WROTE THE SECRET SERVICE MANUAL, and Chief James Rowley (pictured) contributed to this 1962 book:

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TAMPA, FL 11/18/63. Motorcycle officer Russell Groover confirmed to me that all multi-story buildings on the 28-MILE LONG MOTORCADE, the LONGEST DOMESTIC MOTORCADE JFK EVER UNDERTOOK (second only to the foreign trip to Berlin), were guarded by heavily armed officers. This Secret Service survey report was written by Frank Yeager and GERALD BLAINE OF KENNEDY DETAIL infamy! Author Larry Sabato, based on my tip (he acknowledges me in his book), contacted Blaine and called him out on this. Baine lamely stated that they didn’t have the manpower in Dallas—-a far shorter motorcade—to do what they did four days earlier in Tampa:

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Former Secret Service Chief U.E. Baughman, author of the 1962 book SECRET SERVICE CHIEF, came clean in early December 1963…I guess this is why he wasn’t called before the Warren Commission:

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Nashville Agent Paul Doster, a former JFK White House Detail agent, told the “Nashville Banner” back on 5/18/63:
“a complete check of the entire motorcade route” was done.  Also, Doster noted that “Other [police] officers were assigned atop the municipal terminal and other buildings along the route. These men took their posts at 8 a.m. and
remained at their rooftop stations until the president and his party
passed.”

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Thanks Vince.

It was not just the ridiculousness of that motorcaded route, although that was bad enough.

But also the complete lack of any protection almost anywhere in the plaza. Including Lawson's stripping away the cycles on the side, the lack of anyone on the back of the car, the  lack of reaction by anyone but Hill, maybe due to the all night alcohol binge the night before.

Like I said, IMO, everyone involved in approving that route should have been fired. And its part of the cover up that we never got to the bottom of what actually happened except for Blaine to say that there was not enough manpower in Dallas as there was Tampa.

Well, how come there were a total of 18 cycles along the side in Houston?  Because you make up the manpower in local law enforcement and the  military.

Which reminds me: Has anyone ever gotten to the bottom of that army intel photographer being there that day?

Edited by James DiEugenio
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6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

But also the complete lack of any protection almost anywhere in the plaza. Including Lawson's stopping away the cycles on the side, the lack of anyone on the back of the car, the  lack of reaction by anyone but Hill, maybe due to the al night alcohol binge the night before.

Jim and Vince,

How much of that "alcohol binge the night before" was real and how much was it an exaggerated excuse for the lack of reaction? I recall reading somewhere that there wasn't really that much drinking (though that may have been CYA by the agents).

 

 

 

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Ron:

According to the late Jim Marrs, it was pretty real.  There were over ten agents there and they were giggling about how they hired firemen to protect the president.

There was a deliberate cover up about it by Rowley. And that cover up went as high as the White House. The Cellar's manager got a call he said came from there:

"After the agents were there, we got a call from the White House asking us not to say anything about them drinking because their image had suffered enough as it was.  We didn't say anything, but those guys were bombed.  They were drinking pure Everclear [alcohol]." ( Marrs, Crossfire, first edition, p. 248)

Again, this was a direct violation of the manual that was supposed to be punishable by termination.  It was not because of the cover up that ensued. 

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Hi Jim. You mean James Powell? I doubt he knew what was about to happen. Somebody did, though. The interesting question is who put him in Dealey Plaza with a camera that day. Does anyone have a photo of James Powell?  https://goo.gl/6e23Fd

Along those lines and even more interesting is Stuart Reed. The guy worked as an executive for the Canal Zone Civilian Personnel Policy Coordinating Board in Panama. He ends up in Dallas on 11/22/63, takes photos in and around Dealey Plaza, including McWatters' bus around the time Oswald would have been on it, AND THEN happens to be at the Texas Theatre to photograph Oswald being arrested. He drops off his film to be developed in Dallas and on 11/26 he signs an authorization allowing the FBI to pick up his developed photos as he leaves for New Orleans to catch a boat back to Panama. Seems legit. <sarcasm.jpg> I think it's reasonable to consider that Reed may have been handled by the same person who put James Powell in Dealey Plaza. Any connections Reed may have had to Army Intelligence would be of great interest.  https://goo.gl/NLk641

By the way, Winston Lawson was Army CIC from 1953-55. At least, those are the years his Army Intel service is documented. Lawson was at Fort Holabird at the same time Richard Case Nagell was there. Probably a coincidence, that whole thing. But Army Intelligence seems to pop up everywhere.

Back to the topic at hand. The security in Tampa vs the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza only 3 days later is, in my opinion, the strongest evidence for an inside man or men around the Dallas trip/motorcade. Consider the Tampa trip security that Vince has documented. Now look at the windows, overpasses and rooftops throughout the Craven film in Dallas https://goo.gl/XnmgXL, along with the many other films and photos documenting such. There are people crawling all over the place and it was a much shorter drive in what was expected to be a potentially hostile environment. Had local law enforcement and MI units been fully utilized as on other trips, manpower would not have been an issue. Not to mention the route selection, Lawson managing the motorcycles at Love field and the Rybka incident. It really starts to add up, doesn't it?

In my opinion, the professionals involved in the Dallas op were going to kill  Kennedy with or without compromised protection. Contingencies were in place to get him in Dallas regardless of how the security ultimately unfolded. My guess is - and this is total speculation - there was a link somewhere high up the food chain between someone like Morales or Phillips and someone with enough juice to pull the right levers around the Texas trip planning. It could have been sold to them as Kennedy wanting to be more visible in Dallas to afford favorable photo opportunities or whatever. I'm not so sure about witting participation by members of the Secret Service, though. Opening the kimono and stating, "Hey, we are planning to kill JFK in Dallas and we want your help" would have been a significant risk.

Jim and Vince, thanks for your many valuable, thought-provoking posts. Always a treat :up

Edited by Greg Wagner
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Thanks Greg.

Yes, I meant Powell.  That has always seemed kind of weird to me, and yes I knew about the Stuart Reed incident also. And Powell then gets caught in the Dal-Tex building after?  I mean, again, it just seems odd that there would be no military support, but those two guys would be there taking pictures. :mellow:

The Reed incident is not talked enough about IMO.  But combined with Powell it seems to raise some interesting questions.  Like: Was military intelligence there taking pictures as they did in the King case five years later?   Maybe it was just some kind of coincidence.  But, in a real investigation, that issue would have been addressed.

That point you bring up about blaming the security stripping on Kennedy is a key one.  Borrowing from Vince P, Doug Horne concentrates on it in the latter part of IARRB.  In my view, the way the Secret Service (falsely) used that excuse was not just a matter of blaming the victim.  It was a way to deflect away from their own culpability.  

 I also agree that with the dubious motorcade route and its probable alteration, which allowed the L shaped ambush that is quite literally taught in sniper classes, the Lawton/Rybka call off, Lawson reducing the cycle escort, the lack of local law enforcement support, etc.  It eventually just gets to be a bit much.  Thanks to Vince for raising this angel of inquiry.

 

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Clear SS rule violating late night drinking of alcohol in a topless lounge the night before these agents were supposed to be on top of their game in physically protecting the Potus in a known threatening city should have been grounds for firing on it's own. 

But when this violation directly or even indirectly or even speculatively effected perhaps a slower reaction time to the sounds of gunfire in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963, of course every one of those late night topless bar visiting agents should have been fired immediately. And their bosses too for not keeping more vigilant control of their underlings, especially in a city suspected of being a very dangerous one for the Potus following Adlai Stevenson's assault there and the Wanted For Treason posters H.L.Hunt was placing under car windshield wipers ( and that horribly threatening Dallas Morning News ad ) the day before.

This wasn't innocently JFK admiring Disneyland.  This was JFK WHITE HOT hating Dallasland.

I also felt that heads should have rolled after Oswald was killed right inside of the DPD building with 70 armed security milling about.

If anyone but Texan LBJ were president on 11,24,1963, I guarantee you that the fury of our federal government at the DPD's losing the most valuable piece of truth seeking evidence in the JFK assassination ( Lee Harvey Oswald ) would have brought a slew of hammering indictments down on those responsible for Oswald's protective security and it's worst case scenario breakdown.

DPD deli sandwich, free booze and hot woman providing, mafia connected strip joint owning Jack Ruby defeats an army of DPD Oswald security personnel right inside their own building to destroy our best chance at discovering the truth behind who killed our president?

To this day, that tragic and totally improbable reality makes you feel sick and suspicious about the whole JFK assassination in Dallas, Texas story.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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Just to add a bit more to the military intelligence presence in Dealey Plaza that day, I give you David Aubrey Sooy.

Sooy was a career Naval officer and probably ONI. He was commander of the Naval Air Station in Dallas for a few years in the late 50's and when JFK was shot, Sooy was sitting in his car waiting for the motorcade to pass the TSBD. Sooy and his location/presence Dealey Plaza is a matter that has been discussed here before https://goo.gl/TVs7iM

Sooy knew Frank Krystinik (Krystinik and Sooy below; thanks to James Richards). Prior to the assassination, Krystinik met Oswald through Michael Paine.

Just another one of those amazing coincidences.

 

Edited by Greg Wagner
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How was it possible that in the so-called "highest Potus protection security" ever thought of in Dallas history ( Jessie Curry ) that there wouldn't be civilian dressed agents mixed into the crowds lining the down town streets of the motorcade route and whose job it would be to watch not just the crowds on the street but the open windows of the multi-story buildings above?

So, in Dallas we don't have security on the roofs of buildings on the motorcade route. We don't have any security personnel with binoculars scanning open windows of buildings just before and during JFK's passing underneath.

5 or more civilians see a man with a rifle or men with rifles in the windows of the Texas School Book Depository building both minutes before and during JFK's passing underneath.

Not one of these civilians are trained, ordered, equipped or even motivated to look for such shockingly threatening things in higher up building open windows above the motorcade route as an armed man or men right before and/or during this most critical security time, yet they do so without even the aid of binoculars.

The preposterousness of this security breakdown scenario is sickeningly obvious.

Just one security person with high powered binoculars and a walkie talkie scanning the Dealey Plaza building open windows before and during the shooting might have made a difference.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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3 minutes ago, Greg Wagner said:

Just to add a bit more to the military intelligence presence in Dealey Plaza that day, I give you David Aubrey Sooy.

Sooy was a career Naval officer and probably ONI. He was commander of the Naval Air Station in Dallas for a few years in the late 50's and when JFK was shot, Sooy was sitting in his car waiting for the motorcade to pass the TSBD. Sooy and his location/presence Dealey Plaza is a matter that has been discussed here before.

Sooy knew Frank Krystinik (Krystinik and Sooy below; thanks to James Richards). Prior to the assassination, Krystinik met Oswald through Michael Paine.

Just another one of those amazing coincidences.

frankkrystinikdasooy1.jpg

Yes, coincidental to a valid suspicion degree.

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56 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Just one security person with high powered binoculars and a walkie talkie scanning the Dealey Plaza building open windows before and during the shooting might have made a difference.

Ah, but Joe, there was.

 

"I didn't see nuffin from nuffin"

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

 

Mr. BELIN. On what corner is your building?

Mr. HOLMES. Southwest.
Mr. BELIN. On what side of the building is your office where you were sitting?
Mr. HOLMES. On the north side.
Mr. BELIN. From your office looking north, what building would you see?
Mr. HOLMES. The Texas School Book Depository Building. And I am on the fifth floor of my building.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on the fifth floor about the time the motorcade was coming down Main Street?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Were you looking with the aid of any optical instrument?
Mr. HOLMES. I had a pair of 7 1/2 x 50 binoculars.

Mr. HOLMES. I watched for hours from that vantage point up there with my binoculars, hoping I would see someone running across the railroad tracks, or maybe that I could get word to the police as to where they were, because it was like a birdseye view of the panorama of the whole area.

 

Steve Thomas

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I don't know whether this is helpful but, it is about military intelligence photographers in Dealey Plaza.  I somewhere read something about there might have been 50.  But, I don't have a source and it might be a faulty memory although I don't think so.

https://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2012/10/steve-osborn-testimony-re-fort-hood.html

 

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