“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...

[Sandy Larsen]

18 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Sandy,

Have you read CIA Financial Analyst James B. Wilcott's classifed statements/interview with the HSCA? 

I had not. But in them, he claimed that 

"Among the close circle of friends with which I discussed all this openly, there was no doubt that Ruby was paid by CI*\ to do away with Oswald, and Oswald was a patsy . Information from other rather tight ; social circles would occasionally come our way and we would seise upon It and try to fit it into our own version of the scenario. There was no doubt that CIA was in "as thick as thieves" with the Dallas Police. Several different individuals or firms in Dallas had been Involved ♦ in one way or another with acting as cut-outs for arms shipment to * Cuban exiles for the Invasion. This we concluded from, putting various 

pieces people of information together. I remember hearing about some who had somehow helped the right-win.; Minute Men in Texas to get arms, originally intended for the invasion."

https://archive.org/stream/HSCAUnpublishedAndClassifiedInterviewsAndTestimony/HSCA Interview of James B Wilcott%2C 22 March 1978_djvu.txt

William Weston's articles "411 Elm Street" and "The Spider's Web: The Texas School Book Depository and the Dallas Conspiracy" make the provocative speculation that the TSBD was an important storage site for the CIA and their gun-running activities.  I've also included a pretty good interview with Weston and Jim Fetzer. Take a close look at what Weston has to say about the Lone Star Book Depository's move to Harry Hines Blvd. and the alternate motorcade route. (1:40:00 ish on the video.)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16259#relPageId=16&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16259#relPageId=7

 

 

 

Paul,

Thanks for finding and posting those links for me. I've already watched the video (the whole thing) and just started to read The Spiders Web. I had read Wilcott's testimony years ago but didn't pay much attention to the gun-running stuff.

This is all pretty fascinating. Elements of the Glaze letters make it seem credible. But one thing struck me as odd is that Bill Shelley was willing to talk to Glaze on many occasions, like he had no secrets to keep. And yet when Glaze sad he want to write about it, Shelley suddenly became secretive. Another oddity is for Shelley to claim he was an intelligence officer in WW2. He was a mere teenager then. But then, Oswald was a CIA agent spying on Russia when he was only twenty. So maybe Shelley truly was an intelligence officer. Or maybe he was exaggerating.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 5/17/2019 at 7:28 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Jim,

Following is the chain of events as I believe it happened. I've listed all the steps so that you can tell me if and where it doesn't answer your question.

1. On 11/22/63, the DPD discovers in their interrogation of Oswald that he claims to have gone outside just before the presidential parade passed by. (Interrogation attendees noted that Oswald said he was outside with Shelley after lunch. Hosty's handwritten notes say specifically that Oswald went out to watch the parade.)
2. Not long afterward the FBI begins to formulate a story to cover up Oswald's being outside. This story has Officer Baker and Roy Truly seeing Oswald in the second floor lunchroom. The story is modified over time as necessary (e.g. their was/wasn't a coke involved).
3. In 1964 the WC begins finalizing the official story, which is to be based on the truth whenever possible. It incorporates the bogus second floor encounter.
4. The WC realizes that Vickie Adams' early descent down the stairs contradicts their narrative, specifically that Oswald descended the same steps to get to the second floor lunchroom. It's too late to change the lunchroom story. So they need to discredit Victoria Adams' testimony. Since there were multiple witnesses to her descent, they feel it is most convincing to discredit the timing of the event. They feel that the issue is important enough that they need to have multiple witnesses discredit the timing.
5. Lovelady and Shelley are talked into saying they entered the west TSBD door, but only after being outside several minutes after the shooting. They are told to say they saw Vickie exit the stairwell on the first floor. Vickie is likewise told to say she saw them as she exited the stairwell.
6. The WC lawyer who will be questioning Vickie, Shelley, and Lovelady, Mr. Belin, is briefed as to how the three are expected to testify. Belin outlines the questions he will ask. He expects them all to say they saw each other.
7. The attempt at getting the three witnesses to agree on the fake encounter failed. None was willing to say they saw the other. I suspect that the all wondered why they were being ask to point to someone else, as though they were being asked to implicate that person. The nearest the FBI/WC got to their goal was when Lovelady blurted out that he wasn't sure it was Vickie Adams that he saw. In the end the WC decides to alter Adams' testimony about the encounter and be done with it.

Sandy,

Thanks for spelling this all out, and sorry for this kind of rushed response.  You make a solid argument, but here’s what I think:

I think “Oswald” was instructed to stay inside the second floor lunchroom during the parade.  (Can you imagine the plotters allowing him to go outside and be seen and/or photographed by any number of people during the assassination?  All that planning would be ruined!)  At DPD headquarters, I think he DID say he was outside the building with Shelley because he was led to believe he could trust Shelley and that Shelley would vouch for him now that he suddenly needed an alibi.  

This position may be in a minority of one, but my belief is that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter pretty much happened as Baker and Truly described.  The TSBD has an elevated first floor.  You have to climb those outer steps to reach it from the sidewalk.  The back staircase has two sets of steps, at right angles, to reach each floor.  Thus Baker had to climb three sets of stairs just to reach the second floor. In the excitement, I can easily see that he might have thought the encounter was on the third or fourth floor in his original statement.  And I don’t think Truly would have risked saying a non-employee was really a TSBD worker.  If the falsity was exposed, his perfidy would have been exposed also.

I think Vickie Adams DID see Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, and so did Baker, Truly and newsman Robert MacNeil, who has talked often about the “three calm men” he saw in the back room of the first floor at about 12:34. MacNeil emphasized the almost surreal calmness of these men surrounded by all that mayhem. In 2005, attorney William Weston wrote a piece for The Fourth Decade and expanded on this forum in which he used a process of elimination to determine who those three calm men were. Here's part of what he wrote:

 

Quote

 

One thing that should be noted is the free and casual manner by which the three men occupied their surroundings. They could not have been strangers who had just walked in off the street. Their familiarity with the ground floor of the Book Depository is indicated by their precise and ready knowledge of the location of telephones. Only employees who come to work on a regular basis could have acquired such a comprehensive awareness of incidental details. Therefore the three men must have been workers whom other employees in the building would have recognized. On the 22nd of November there were sixty-nine people who came to work that day. Of that sixty-nine, thirty-six were women and twenty-three were men. Thus our field of inquiry narrows from an infinite range of possibilities to less than a couple dozen.

Of the twenty-four men who came to work, nine had gone outside to watch the motorcade. The other fifteen were either the inside the building at the time of the shooting or had gone inside immediately afterwards. Three of these men were management personnel: Steve Wilson, Otis Williams, and Roy Truly. Steve Wilson, the manager of a publishing company, remained in his office on the third floor. Otis Williams was standing on the steps of the Book Depository when the shooting occurred. Immediately afterwards he went inside and headed for the back stairs and climbed them up to the fourth floor in order to see the activity at the Triple Underpass, where he thought the shots originated. Roy Truly went up to the roof with Officer Marion Baker where a gunman was thought to be posted. Thus we can eliminate Wilson, Williams, and Truly as being among those who were on the ground floor when Robert MacNeil came in.

The remaining eleven men were all warehouse workers. Eight of these warehouse men were Negroes. Although MacNeil did not specifically mention skin color, we can be sure that he would not have omitted such an obvious characteristic in his description of the three men. Thus the eight black workers can be eliminated from consideration. This leaves five men: Jack Daugherty, William Shelley, Billy Lovelady, Wesley Frazier, and Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jack Daugherty could not have been one of the three, for he was up on the fifth floor during the shooting and came down at 12:33 by means of the west freighter. As soon as he came down, he immediately got in a discussion about the shooting with a fellow worker named Eddie Piper, a Negro warehouseman. [13] Daugherty would not have had time to stand with two other men by the pay phone, when MacNeil came into the building.

We can rule out Oswald as one of the three men for two reasons. For one thing MacNeil did not later recall seeing Oswald before, when he saw him that same night at the police station. Since MacNeil was close enough to the three men to interact with two of them, MacNeil would most likely have remembered Oswald if he were one of the three. Furthermore Oswald was on the second floor at least until 12:32 or 12:33. He would not have been able to go down the stairs and lounge around with two companions by the time MacNeil came in at 12:34. When taken together, these considerations make a strong argument that Oswald was not one of the three.

 

I think Mr. Weston correctly identified Shelley and Lovelady as two of the “three calm men.” But the third may well have been “Lee Harvey Oswald” instead of Frazier.  Do you think Oswald would have left the building just minutes after the hit without permission from his direct supervisor?  Shelley had to tell him to leave so it would appear that he was running away.  And someone had to instruct him how to leave the building, how to travel to the Texas Theater, and perhaps even give him those two half dollar bills that magically appeared in the Dallas Archives.

I think Shelley and Lovelady admitted in their first day statements that they went back into the building relatively quickly because they knew many people saw them do just that.  But as the cover-up grew, they felt the need to claim being elsewhere for a longer and longer period of time, not so much to impeach Vickie Adams’s timeline, but to save their own guilty hides.  If not Shelley, who told Oswald to leave the building and go to the Texas Theater?    Truly couldn't have done it--he was busy with Baker.

[David Josephs]

Quote

Three of these men were management personnel: Steve Wilson, Otis Williams, and Roy Truly. Steve Wilson, the manager of a publishing company, remained in his office on the third floor

So is this just a huge coincidence?     Can’t be the same guy....

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKwilsonS.htm

There is a claim this Wilson had a hand in with the BYP.....

Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson was born in Mansfield, Ohio. He spent three years in the United States Army and five years in the United States Marines.

Wilson was a member of Interpen (Intercontinental Penetration Force) that was established in 1961 by Gerry P. Hemming. Other members included Loran Hall, Roy Hargraves, William Seymour, Lawrence Howard, Howard K. Davis, Edwin Collins, James Arthur Lewis, Dennis Harber, Bill Dempsey, Dick Whatley, Ramigo Arce, Ronald Augustinovich, Joe Garman, Edmund Kolby, Ralph Schlafter, Manuel Aguilar and Oscar Del Pinto.

This group of experienced soldiers were involved in training members of the anti-Castro groups funded by the Central Intelligence Agency in Florida in the early 1960s. When the government began to crack down on raids from Florida in 1962, Interpen set up a new training camp in New Orleans. The group carried out a series of raids on Cuba in an attempt to undermine the government of Fidel Castro. This involved a plan to create a war by simulating an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base.

Some researchers believe that a combination of Interpen members and anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. This included Wilson, James Arthur Lewis, Roy Hargraves, Edwin Collins, Gerry P. Hemming, David Morales, Herminio Diaz Garcia, Tony Cuesta, Eugenio Martinez, Virgilio Gonzalez, Felipe Vidal Santiagoand William (Rip) Robertson.

Steve Wilson was working as an ironworker on a Key West desalination plant project, when he died of heart failure in 1984.

[John Butler]

Ramigo Arce?  Any kin to Danny Arce?

[Sandy Larsen]

21 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I think “Oswald” was instructed to stay inside the second floor lunchroom during the parade.  (Can you imagine the plotters allowing him to go outside and be seen and/or photographed by any number of people during the assassination?  All that planning would be ruined!)  At DPD headquarters, I think he DID say he was outside the building with Shelley because he was led to believe he could trust Shelley and that Shelley would vouch for him now that he suddenly needed an alibi.  

 

Jim,

The burden is on me to explain how it is that Oswald was allowed to be outside during the shooting. The burden is on you to explain how Oswald's handler talked him into staying inside during the presidential parade. I would have been very suspicious of being told I alone must stay inside.

As for Oswald being allowed outside, I've not thought that to be a problem for a couple years now, long before I finally became convinced (earlier this year with the revelation of Hosty's handwritten notes) that Oswald was outside during the shooting. See, I don't believe the CIA was setting Oswald up as a shooter. I believe they were setting him up as one of several conspirators: Oswald and some other Americans, Sylvia Duran, Valeriy Kostikov, Nikolai Leonov, among others. The only thing the plotters wanted was for Kennedy to be dead and for Russia and Cuba to get the blame for it. It didn't matter at all what Oswald did during the shooting as long as he got dead afterward.

 

21 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I think Mr. Weston correctly identified Shelley and Lovelady as two of the “three calm men.” But the third may well have been “Lee Harvey Oswald” instead of Frazier.

 

I think Mr. Weston correctly identified all three. Oswald was apparently doing something in the storage room near the entrance when Weston came in, which he said was four minutes after the shooting.

 

21 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 Do you think Oswald would have left the building just minutes after the hit without permission from his direct supervisor?

 

My understanding is that Oswald was stopped by a policeman as he tried to leave the main door, and Truly told him Oswald was an employee. Perhaps that policeman was Baker, as this sounds like the genesis of the fake 2nd floor encounter.

Oswald was leaving because he had been told to meet someone at the Texas theater. He needed to be killed.

 

[Steve Thomas]

On 5/20/2019 at 6:19 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

My understanding is that Oswald was stopped by a policeman as he tried to leave the main door, and Truly told him Oswald was an employee. Perhaps that policeman was Baker, as this sounds like the genesis of the fake 2nd floor encounter.

Oswald was leaving because he had been told to meet someone at the Texas theater. He needed to be killed.

 

Deleted

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Jim Hargrove]

Steve,

It’s a little hard to parse, but I read the relevant portion of Fritz’s notes as follows: [Oswald] claims [he was on the] 2nd floor [with a] Coke when off[icer Truly] came in". This seems like  corroboration of the 2nd floor lunch room encounter.

Please pardon my lack of time for better research, but I think the timeline will show that whether you believe in the Nash Rambler Oswald or the bus and taxi Oswald or both, all had left the building well before the time Lumpkin, Kaminski, and Truly began challenging people at the front door.

Harry Holmes’ notation of the Negro employees and the elevator happened about 12:15, well before the assassination.  Postal Inspector/FBI informant Holmes is the only person in the known universe who heard “Oswald” say while in police custody that he had traveled to Mexico City.  The case is also excellent that Holmes helped to fabricate the U.S. Postal “evidence” for the Carcano rifle.  I wouldn’t rely on anything he said.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Jim Hargrove

[Paul Jolliffe]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Sandy,

 

I believe that it was Lt. Erich Kaminsky who stopped Oswald at the front door.

 

After the assassination, George Lumpkin returned to the TSBD and took command there.

DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10 page 22.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm

 

According to the Dispatch Tapes, George Lumpkin had arrived at the TSBD by 12:49 PM

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

 

15 (Captain C.E. Talbert): “15 is at the scene. We... the building's the Old Purse Company on the east side of Houston. Somebody cut off the back side, will you? Make sure nobody leaves there.”

Dispatcher: “10-4, 15”

15: “15's in charge down here. Correction 5's (Deputy Chief Lumpkin) in charge.”

(It appears that Talbert had the wrong building in mind).

 

It was Kaminsky who Deputy Chief Lumpkin had positioned at the front door of the TSBD.

 

 

This matches exactly what Postal Inspector, Harry Holmes wrote in his Report of Oswald's interrogation on Sunday, November 24^th even down to the fact that it was Truly, "his boss", who identified the person being questioned, as being an employee.

See Warren Report, Appendix XI page 636

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=660&tab=page

If Oswald was the shooter, why was he hanging around as late as 12:49?

 

Steve Thomas

 

Steve,

I am glad you pointed the role of Erich Kaminsky here. When I read Jesse Curry's book last summer he wrote exactly that. I realized that the "Oswald was stopped and questioned by a policeman before Truly identified him" story may have its genesis right there. (Either that, or it is possible that there were TWO "Oswald"/DPD encounters within a very few minutes of the shots - one near the front door shortly after the shots, and then a second one a few minutes later.)

If Roy Truly vouched for "Oswald" not in the 2nd floor lunchroom, but instead a few minutes later near the front door as "Oswald" was confronted by Kaminsky (and noted on Revill's list), then Truly's decision to send the DPD after "Oswald" a few minutes later is even more suspicious and conspiratorial. 

Greg Parker has suggested that the "605 Elsbeth" address noted on Revill's list could be a misread of "Oswald's" library card, particularly if the library card were read upside down (if "Oswald" was holding it in his hand as identification, say.) While that scenario is possible, it is hardly definitive. We don't know why the Elsbeth address appeared on the DPD list. I'd say the possibility that the address came from some other intelligence file is still open.

Sandy Larsen,

On a different note, I agree with you that the most important consideration for the conspirators on 11/22/63 was that the president was dead, not that "Oswald" be framed perfectly. I have long believed that "Oswald" was to be the patsy as the shooter if possible, but failing that, "Oswald" was to be blamed as the ringleader. This is where I disagree with Jim and John Armstrong. I have already demonstrated that there is clear evidence that Buell Wesley Frazier was impersonated before 11/22/63 (CE 3077) and was implicated after the shots with the  early press reports that the DPD "found" a .303 British Enfield - Frazier's exact weapon!

This is not to suggest that I think that Frazier was a conspirator - I don't. I think he was an innocent 19 year old kid on whom the authorities thought they could lean to support their "case" against "Oswald." Had not the FBI "linked" the Mannlicher-Carcano to "Oswald" late Friday night/early Saturday morning,  I believe there was an excellent chance Frazier would have been jailed on conspiracy charges.

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Sandy Larsen,

On a different note, I agree with you that the most important consideration for the conspirators on 11/22/63 was that the president was dead, not that "Oswald" be framed perfectly. I have long believed that "Oswald" was to be the patsy as the shooter if possible, but failing that, "Oswald" was to be blamed as the ringleader. This is where I disagree with Jim and John Armstrong. I have already demonstrated that there is clear evidence that Buell Wesley Frazier was impersonated before 11/22/63 (CE 3077) and was implicated after the shots with the  early press reports that the DPD "found" a .303 British Enfield - Frazier's exact weapon!

Paul,

But then why was such an effort made to frame "Oswald" as a shooter?  All those appearances at the Sports Drome rifle range, The Irving Furniture Mart and Dial Ryder referral (for the scope that eventually wasn't needed), the 4-foot long package while hitch-hiking with Ralph Leon Yates, that brown paper package mailed to "Lee Oswald" with 12-cent overdue postage notice delivered to Ruth Paine.  These elements of the set-up, all prior to the assassination, sure sound like trying to make "Oswald" appear to be a shooter, not a ringleader.

[Paul Jolliffe]

3 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Paul,

But then why was such an effort made to frame "Oswald" as a shooter?  All those appearances at the Sports Drome rifle range, The Irving Furniture Mart and Dial Ryder referral (for the scope that eventually wasn't needed), the 4-foot long package while hitch-hiking with Ralph Leon Yates, that brown paper package mailed to "Lee Oswald" with 12-cent overdue postage notice delivered to Ruth Paine.  These elements of the set-up, all prior to the assassination, sure sound like trying to make "Oswald" appear to be a shooter, not a ringleader.

Yes, I agree Jim. Their intent or hope was to blame "Oswald" as the shooter.

But, important as that was, it was NOT the most important consideration for the plotters, nor even the second most: the overriding, absolutely imperative, nothing-else-matters-if-this-fails objective was to kill JFK. JFK had to be dead before the limo left Dealey Plaza, and if that meant an artillery strike had to be called in on the limo, then so be it. For the plotters, a living JFK would head an investigation that would, beyond any doubt, find out who did it. And they would all hang.

The second most important consideration for the plotters was to get the sixth floor impersonators/shooters/team out of the TSBD. You and I agree that the passenger elevator escape theory is viable, if not proven beyond doubt. That team had to escape successfully. 

The third most important aspect was to blame a dead "Oswald". Only a dead "Oswald" could be patsified. Remember, even J. Edgar Hoover admitted in his phone call to LBJ on Saturday evening that "the evidence against this man is not very strong." Within 24 hours that changed. Had the FBI suddenly discovered more "evidence"? No, merely the patsy was now dead, and his widow could now be coerced into saying literally anything against him.

And, of course, she did. 

Yes, they all wanted to wrap it up with "Oswald" as the shooter, but the other three considerations were even more important to the conspirators.

[Jim Hargrove]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:05 AM, David Josephs said:

So is this just a huge coincidence?     Can’t be the same guy....

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKwilsonS.htm

There is a claim this Wilson had a hand in with the BYP.....

Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson was born in Mansfield, Ohio. He spent three years in the United States Army and five years in the United States Marines.

Wilson was a member of Interpen (Intercontinental Penetration Force) that was established in 1961 by Gerry P. Hemming. Other members included Loran Hall, Roy Hargraves, William Seymour, Lawrence Howard, Howard K. Davis, Edwin Collins, James Arthur Lewis, Dennis Harber, Bill Dempsey, Dick Whatley, Ramigo Arce, Ronald Augustinovich, Joe Garman, Edmund Kolby, Ralph Schlafter, Manuel Aguilar and Oscar Del Pinto.

This group of experienced soldiers were involved in training members of the anti-Castro groups funded by the Central Intelligence Agency in Florida in the early 1960s. When the government began to crack down on raids from Florida in 1962, Interpen set up a new training camp in New Orleans. The group carried out a series of raids on Cuba in an attempt to undermine the government of Fidel Castro. This involved a plan to create a war by simulating an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base.

Some researchers believe that a combination of Interpen members and anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. This included Wilson, James Arthur Lewis, Roy Hargraves, Edwin Collins, Gerry P. Hemming, David Morales, Herminio Diaz Garcia, Tony Cuesta, Eugenio Martinez, Virgilio Gonzalez, Felipe Vidal Santiagoand William (Rip) Robertson.

Steve Wilson was working as an ironworker on a Key West desalination plant project, when he died of heart failure in 1984.

David,

I did a little online digging and can't find any information on the Interpen Wilson having ever lived in Texas, much less the Dallas area.  This could be, though, because there was very little biographical information on him at all.  John Simkin on this forum did some digging ten or 15 years ago but doesn't mention the Interpen Wilson having ever been in Texas.

The name "Steve Wilson" seems pretty common.  If we could find a "Justin Joseph 'Steve' Wilson," or something close, associated with the TSBD, we might have something.  Otherwise, I don't see how we can assume it is anything other than a minor coincidence of names.

John B. -- Same thing, but even more so, for Ramigo Arce.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/17/2019 at 1:16 PM, Paul Jolliffe said:

I await your positive identification of Gloria Calvery in Darnell at the steps, talking to Lovelady. As I pointed out before, she was so well acquainted with Bill Shelley that he was the best man at her wedding in July of 1963. (I don't know if Lovelady attended, or not.)

 

Paul,

Maybe you've already seen it, but a day or two ago I posted a summary of how Tommy Graves and I identified Gloria Calvery:

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy,

Assuming you are correct about the evidence presented in the thread linked above, and it sure looks like you are, this puts to rest a whole lot of nonsense about Shelley and Lovelady. Clearly, they both went back into the TSBD soon after the shots rang out. 

Now the question becomes, was the whole Excellent Adventure about accompanying police to the railroad tracks invented by WC attorneys to impeach Vickie Adams’ timing, or was it invented by Shelley and Lovelady to protect their own butts.  A clear answer to this question would help our search for the truth keep moving right along!

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/20/2019 at 8:11 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Sandy,

I believe that it was Lt. Erich Kaminsky who stopped Oswald at the front door.

 

 

23 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve,

I am glad you pointed the role of Erich Kaminsky here. When I read Jesse Curry's book last summer he wrote exactly that.

 

 

Thanks Steve and Paul.

It sure seem like the stopping of Oswald occurred after the building was secured, and thus by Erich Kaminsky. My notes show two sources indicating that that was when Oswald was stopped, Harry Holmes and James Jarmin

Here is some Holmes WC testimony:

[Oswald] said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

(It is my opinion is that Holmes is conflating the TWO times Oswald went out... the first being when he checked on the commotion as the motorcade went by, and the second being when Oswald left for the day.)

In an unpublished HSCA interview, James Jarman recounted what Billy Lovelady had told him about Oswald's leaving the TSBD:

Oswald was coming out the door and [Lovelady] said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building, billy love lady said that Mr. Trudy told the policemen that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs.

James Jarman could not have known about Oswald being stopped by a policeman,Truly vouching for him, and his subsequent departure -- ALL THINGS CORROBORATED BY HARRY HOLMES -- unless Lovelady really had known they took place. In essence, what we have here is Lovelady corroborating what Oswald told his interrogators.

I therefore also believe that it was Lt. Erich Kaminsky who stopped Oswald at the front door.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/20/2019 at 3:15 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Paul,

But then why was such an effort made to frame "Oswald" as a shooter?  All those appearances at the Sports Drome rifle range, The Irving Furniture Mart and Dial Ryder referral (for the scope that eventually wasn't needed), the 4-foot long package while hitch-hiking with Ralph Leon Yates, that brown paper package mailed to "Lee Oswald" with 12-cent overdue postage notice delivered to Ruth Paine.  These elements of the set-up, all prior to the assassination, sure sound like trying to make "Oswald" appear to be a shooter, not a ringleader.

Jim

I think a case can be made that a wild-eyed ringleader bent on killing a president might do the things you've listed.  I'm reminded of pictures like this:
 

 

I believe that the plotters' ultimate patsies were Russia and Cuba. Oswald's story was merely a pathway to them. I don't believe the plotters necessarily planned for a lone gunman scenario, though that would have sufficed. In fact, I believe that there were at least two rifles left at the TSBD for the authorities to find, a Mauser and a Carcano. Which would indicate a conspiracy.

It was the Johnson Administration that made it a lone gunman scenario. They were the ones who made the Mauser disappear and the magic bullet appear.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Sandy Larsen