David Josephs Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said: If the claim is that they were merely similar, it should be easy to tell which is which by looking at the photographic record and identifying which facial features belonged to each of the fictional characters. As far as I'm aware, no 'Harvey and Lee' believer has yet assembled a definitive list of which character had which facial features. the last photo of LEE we have is in 1959... here is a few comparisons - HARVEY has more squared shoulders and is 2-3 inches shorter as well as 20-40 lbs lighter... HARVEY also had all is teeth while LEE had his molars as well as a couple other teeth removed as detailed in his military record who show him with only 2 molars per side instead of the three in the exhumed Oswald's mouth... (can you follow this TRACY or do you need a dentist to explain the difference between 2 MOLARS and 3 MOLARS ) Now JB - I truly do not wish to engage in an argument with you.... Robert Oswald claimed to have taken this photo in AUG 1953 - after 7th grade, the inset is of the 5'4" 115lb 6th grader before he moved to NYC. Pretty amazing that both as a boy and a man LEE is demonstrably larger and with a different demeanor completely. Not sure how you can argue with your own eyes.... you do see the 3 molars in 1981 vs 2 molars in the 1957 records? Even more interesting is how we NEVER see Lee's teeth - every image of them is altered or simply so poor as to not reveal any detail. The nose is obviously very different.... the sheer size of arms and neck in opposing photos is also obvious... what isn't obvious, until you put them side by side, is how the Oswald MARINE entry photo is complete BS.... Can you explain how the image on the right - with the 13" head - can be real, if the one on the left is also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Just got this document from Bart.... it's Lee's application to the Marine's... We all have heard how Oswald was sending some portion of his paycheck to his mother - Zack Stout (Lee's best friend in Japan) said he "had less, not more, than the rest"... yet was still able to go to the QUEEN BEE, have a Japanese girlfriend and seem to spend significant amounts of money moving around Japan. How exactly does a marine get by giving 100% of his pay to his mother? Unless he is being cared for by others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 50 minutes ago, David Josephs said: How exactly does a marine get by giving 100% of his pay to his mother? David, Now that is very, very weird. I mean, that's not even humanly possible is it? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 56 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: David, Now that is very, very weird. I mean, that's not even humanly possible is it? Steve Thomas Unless some other agency was footing the bill ??? And you'd think since this application was the beginning of an interview process - they would have seen and caught that.... (He answered "no" to all Q's in PART 1 btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I'm not real familiar with military forms/paperwork, but my reading of the document says "In the event I am listed as missing or other military circumstances prevent me from transferring funds to my dependents it is my desire that" 100% of my pay each month be sent to my mother. This to me, does not say that in the routine pay process 100% of his pay was to go to her, but if the situation arose that he was in some way incapacitated or not available to transfer the funds, he wanted her to receive his entire pay check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Great stuff Dr. Josephs. Ozzie at the Queen Bee got my tinfoil hat antenna up and buzzin a few years back. Nice to know I'm not a lone nut. Then again my memories may all be based on an article or post you've previously written... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) This is for service insurance and the assignment of beneficiaries. It doesn't have anything to do with take home pay. 3 hours ago, Richard Price said: I'm not real familiar with military forms/paperwork, but my reading of the document says "In the event I am listed as missing or other military circumstances prevent me from transferring funds to my dependents it is my desire that" 100% of my pay each month be sent to my mother. This to me, does not say that in the routine pay process 100% of his pay was to go to her, but if the situation arose that he was in some way incapacitated or not available to transfer the funds, he wanted her to receive his entire pay check. Service insurance benefits in those days were for $10,000 in the event of death. I’m not sure about missing in action pay. I thought that was simply held until the individual was found or declared dead. If dead the insurance would apply and not regular pay. Edited February 15, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Richard Price said: I'm not real familiar with military forms/paperwork, but my reading of the document says "In the event I am listed as missing or other military circumstances prevent me from transferring funds to my dependents it is my desire that" 100% of my pay each month be sent to my mother. This to me, does not say that in the routine pay process 100% of his pay was to go to her, but if the situation arose that he was in some way incapacitated or not available to transfer the funds, he wanted her to receive his entire pay check. Richard, Thank you. You're right. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Bojczuk Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I wrote: Quote Which facial features are specific to 'Harvey', and which facial features are specific to 'Lee'? David Josephs replied: Quote The nose is obviously very different "Obviously"? How, exactly, is the nose "very different"? Is the nose of 'Harvey' wider, narrower, longer, shorter, more bulbous, or less bulbous, than that of 'Lee'? This obvious difference should be evident in other photographs of 'Harvey' and 'Lee'. Could you point it out, perhaps with reference to the 'evolution of Lee Harvey Oswald' montage from page 48? Which numbered photographs show one type of nose, and which show the other type of nose? Quote the sheer size of arms and neck in opposing photos is also obvious ... HARVEY has more squared shoulders and is 2-3 inches shorter as well as 20-40 lbs lighter People's body shapes change over time, and measurements and recollections are not always accurate. Oswald's adult height, for example, has been given as 5' 8", 5' 9", 5' 10", and 5' 11" (1.73-1.81 m). Which explanation is the more likely: there were four Oswalds running around, or some of those measurements were mistaken? And if you claim there were two Oswalds running around, which of the four heights would you assign to each Oswald, and how would you explain the other two heights? Quote Can you explain how the image on the right - with the 13" head - can be real, if the one on the left is also? The laughable notion of a 13-inch head was taken to pieces nearly three years ago. The real-life, historical, one and only Lee Harvey Oswald did not have a 13-inch head. The solution to the mystery is very simple. You can read it here: https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1412-the-13-inch-head-explained-for-sandy Let's try again: which facial features are specific to 'Harvey', and which facial features are specific to 'Lee'? If there's no difference in the photographs that can't be explained in obvious ways (different lighting conditions, different poses, normal body changes, etc), we are left with two options: (a) The fictional characters 'Harvey' and 'Lee' were identical in their facial appearance. Two young boys, unrelated to each other, from different parts of the world (with identical-looking mothers, one of whom, despite being Hungarian or Russian, was somehow a native speaker of American English), were selected for a top-secret doppelganger project, and years later they magically grew up to look identical. What, as they say, are the odds? (b) The photographs are all of just one person: the real-life, historical Lee Harvey Oswald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 As always, Mr. Bojczuk insists we do his bidding by pointing out this and that in what is quite obviously a seriously compromised visual record of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” It is obvious! Mr. Bojczuk insists the images below are real photographs, although they sure look like pencil drawings. He insists that the faces shown below are of the “one and only Lee Harvey Oswald.” Is he kidding? Any reader who wishes to see REAL EVIDENCE for two Lee Harvey Oswalds need only look at the very first page of this very thread. Despite claims to the contrary, none of the issues raised there have ever been successfully debunked. Mr. Bojczuk will be happy to provide a link or two to websites he says provide “alternate explanations,” but, just as I predicted in the title of this thread, he refuses to put the information here, where it can be clearly debated. More than half a dozen times, I’ve offered to debate the following evidence with Mr. Bojczuk: For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year, one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas. One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact. The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.” One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away. One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union. One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive. On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler. Mr. Bojczuk is happy to tell readers that someone else somewhere else has "debunked" the above, but he will not do so himself in his own words right here. I started this thread because, in another thread, Mr. Bojczuk repeated his usual refrain that the two Oswald analysis is less than credible. He wants us to believe there are "alternate facts" to explain it all, and yet when challenged to produce these alternate facts, neither he nor anyone else is able to do so. What a surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: Richard, Thank you. You're right. Steve Thomas I did indeed read it wrong... sorry and thanks for the correction DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) Here is a montage of two photos that enhance David Josephs and Sandy Larsen's evidence of the two Oswalds, Harvey and Lee, having a different pattern of teeth. One has missing teeth and the other has all of his teeth except 1 pre-molar or molar if memory serves. It doesn't take a dentist or expert to see that Lee Oswald on the right has a missing front tooth and Harvey Oswald on the left has all of his front teeth. The missing tooth is an incisor and I don't see a dentist replacing that missing tooth with a dental appliance that has the tooth with the small, abnormal appearing left incisor tooth in Harvey's mouth. You can spot other distinguishing characteristics in these photos. Edited February 15, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) On 2/14/2020 at 9:45 AM, Steve Thomas said: Jim, If we assume for a moment that David Joseph is right and Oswald did not go to Mexico (at least under the guise of the official story we have been give), then we have to ask, where was he? If he didn't go to Mexico, then he is "missing" for something like 10 days. Marina has loaded up Ruth Paine's car with all their belongings, and left New Orleans for Dallas in a station wagon. Have they cancelled their rent in New Orleans yet? Forget about their furniture, does LHO even have a place to live? I need to back and research his rent situation. Ruth Paine told the WC that she thought Oswald had gone to either Houston or Philadelphia to look for work. Did Ruth or Marina ask LHO where he had been for the last 10 days? I don't remember. You've got Odio and Alice mixed up in there. Maybe he did go to Mexico, but just not for the reasons we have been given, and not by the route that the WC laid out. How and where is he eating and sleeping? Steve Thomas Steve, Thanks for the question.... Can we both agree that if “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been to either the Russian or Cuban embassies in Mexico City the CIA would have given the Warren Commission photos of LHO just outside the door(s) of either or both embassies? The CIA had cameras, pulse cameras, and backup cameras aimed at the exterior doors of both embassies, and yet none--NOT ONE--captured anyone looking remotely like “Lee Harvey Oswald” knocking on the door. The Agency was under big pressure to provide photos of LHO, but it couldn’t. I don’t think any Oswald EVER approached a Mexico City embassy. To me, the available evidence clearly suggests that LHO never visited the Russian or Cuban consulates in Mexico Cit, but whether Oswald, any Oswald, actually went to Mexico City is a thornier issue. Below are some brief snippets from H&L:: On the evening of September 24 Harvey Oswald's neighbor on Magazine Street, Eric Rogers, saw him leave his apartment in New Orleans with two bags and board a city bus. September, 1963. While Oswald was supposedly en route to Mexico City on a bus, “Leon” Oswald and two other men visited prominent Cuban dissident Sylvia Odio at her apartment in Dallas. One of the men who accompanied Oswald phoned her the following day and said that Oswald wanted JFK assassinated following the Bay of Pigs. The remnants of Continental Trailways bus tags allegedly identified the bus line. The chalk mark "9/26," was written on the outside of the olive colored bag to identify Oswald's alleged date of entry into Mexico. September 27, 10:00 am - Lee Oswald arrives in Mexico City About 8 :00 am, two hours before arriving in Mexico City, Lee Oswald talked to Pamela Mumford and Patricia Winston for the second and last time. Forty minutes after arriving in Mexico City Oswald had walked 4 blocks to the Hotel del Comercio, checked into room #18, probably changed clothes, probably telephoned the Soviet Military Attache at 10:30 am, and probably telephoned the Soviet Consulate at 10:37 am. Twenty minutes later (11:00 am) he appeared at the Cuban Consulate, 3 miles from the Hotel del Comercio, at Calle Fransicso Marques 160. Lee Oswald accomplished these activities so efficiently, and in such a short period of time, that his schedule appears to have been pre-planned or pre-directed. The conversation between Hoover and Johnson occurred at 10:01 am on November 23, 1963 and was recorded as the two men discussed Oswald's visit to Mexico City: Johnson: "Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City in September?" Hoover: "No, that's one angle that's very confusing for this reason. We have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet Embassy using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not corre spond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it ap pears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet Embassy... We have now learned that Harvey Oswald was never in Mexico City, and we have also learned the activities of the individual(s) who impersonated him were wrapped in "smoke and mirrors." The Transportes Frontera story begins to fall apart On December 3, 1963 FBI agents interviewed Harry Sanderson, a clerk with the Texas Employment Commission (TEC) at 2210 Main Street in Dallas. Sanderson said that according to their records Oswald visited the TEC office on October 3, 1963 prior to closing at 4:30 pm A subsequent investigation established that Oswald checked into the Dallas Y MCA between 4:00 and 4:30 pm on October 3, 1963, where he spent the evening. 1) If Oswald was in Dallas at 4:30 pm, then he could not have departed Mexico aboard the Transportes Frontera bus line on October 2 at 1:00pm and, there- fore, the report of the Mexican Ministry of the Interior was flawed and unreliable. If Oswald was at the TEC in Dallas at 4:30 pm, he could not have applied for a job and talked with Laymon Stewart at KOPY radio in Alice, Texas the same day. NOTE: It now seems clear that Harvey Oswald traveled from New Orleans to Dallas during the evening of September 25, with "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" in a red car. He was seen on the morning of September 26 at the TEC in Dallas by Henry McCluskey and 9:00 pm on the evening of September 26 in Oak Cliff (Dallas) by Sylvia and Annie Odio. This, of course, created a serious problem for the FBI, because Oswald was supposed to be in Mexico at this time-not in Dallas. Edited February 16, 2020 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kowalski Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I have been researching the Tippit family to see if I can get more info about the Tippit call. Found Jack Dempsey Tippit's former wife on LinkedIn. Will update you if she responds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Bojczuk Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 According to David Josephs, the noses of 'Harvey' and 'Lee' are "obviously very different". It's good that a 'Harvey and Lee' believer has at last pinpointed one facial feature that clearly differentiates the two fictional characters, but we are still short on detail. In what way are the noses "very different"? Is one of them wider, narrower, longer or shorter than the other? And which nose belongs to which fictional character? Perhaps other 'Harvey and Lee' believers could help out here. How, exactly, are the noses of 'Harvey' and 'Lee' "very different"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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