Marilyn Monroe & a new book which mentions JFK/RFK

[Stephanie Goldberg]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-marilyn-monroe-abort-john-f-kennedy-or-robert-f-kennedys-baby-before-taking-her-own-life?ref=home&via=twitter_page

"Did Marilyn Monroe Abort JFK or RFK’s Baby Before Taking Her Own Life?  The biography ‘Norma Jean: The Life of Marilyn Monroe,’ out April 28, contains a truly eye-opening claim concerning the actress and the Kennedys. Read it exclusively here."

If you read the entire piece, there's not a lot of fact, but there's an awful lot of what if.  I haven't read the book yet, but Marilyn Monroe's involvement with the Kennedy brothers was always a fascinating subject.  

(If somebody already posted this, sorry!  I missed it.)

[Pamela Brown]

2 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-marilyn-monroe-abort-john-f-kennedy-or-robert-f-kennedys-baby-before-taking-her-own-life?ref=home&via=twitter_page

"Did Marilyn Monroe Abort JFK or RFK’s Baby Before Taking Her Own Life?  The biography ‘Norma Jean: The Life of Marilyn Monroe,’ out April 28, contains a truly eye-opening claim concerning the actress and the Kennedys. Read it exclusively here."

If you read the entire piece, there's not a lot of fact, but there's an awful lot of what if.  I haven't read the book yet, but Marilyn Monroe's involvement with the Kennedy brothers was always a fascinating subject.  

(If somebody already posted this, sorry!  I missed it.)

Interesting but does sound speculative.  Marilyn was, in any case, a thorn in the side of the Kennedys, and she was going to go public with her affairs with them when she was killed...

[James DiEugenio]

Complete bull crap and I will be reviewing an excellent book that, quite predictably, no one knows about. 

There was no "affair" with either JFK or RFK, and no utterly ridiculous abortion. Only the MSM would carry such a story.  You know the Daily Beast, home of Max Holland and the KGB disinfo stories?

And there was no press conference either.

I am communicating with the writer of the book almost every day to get everything right.  He spent about 3 years writing it. And he actually read these crazy, insane books by people like Donald Wolfe and Heymann which  Lifton deferred to..

  Its amazing the research he did that no one else did.

Edited April 27, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Pete Mellor]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Complete bull crap and I will be reviewing an excellent book that, quite predictably, no one knows about. 

There was no "affair" with either JFK or RFK, and no utterly ridiculous abortion. Only the MSM would carry such a story.  You know the Daily Beast, home of Max Holland and the KGB disinfo stories?

And there was no press conference either.

I am communicating with the writer of the book almost every day to get everything right.  He spent about 3 years writing it. And he actually read these crazy, insane books by people like Donald Wolfe and Heymann which  Lifton deferred to..

  Its amazing the research he did that no one else did.

Just by coincidence one of the U.K. tv channels had a programme on Monroe's death just the other evening.  Look forward to your review James.  The programme had it as another 'case closed' with RFK's two visits & him sending in the doctor with a fatal injection, witnessed by an L.A. cop + even Lawford later pointing the finger at the Kennedys.

[James DiEugenio]

LOL, its become almost a grotesque black comedy.

Heymann and Wolfe are probably the two worst.  But there is a whole bullpen full of them and they have created this cottage industry that the MSM just buys into.

Its amazing that they still try and say RFK was in Brentwood the day MM died.  Because back in 2011, Susan Bernard published a book based on her father's photos of Monroe. In that book there is a two page spread of pictures of the Kennedy family at John Bates's ranch in Gilroy on that day.  There are about 11 pictures of RFK from morning to dinner time going horseback riding, swimming at the pool, and playing touch football. John Bates' son sent the photos to her on a DVD.  And he pointed himself out in the pictures.  That is what is called forensic evidence.  Yet according to Heymann, Wolfe etc, while he was playing football in Gilroy, he was also in Brentwood?  

Here is my decades old two part essay on the subject., the second part focuses on Monroe.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-posthumous-assassination-of-john-f-kennedy

But this guy has gone way beyond what I did back then. He wrote 600 pages on it.  I took 45 pages of notes.

[James DiEugenio]

That whole thing about the "fatal injection" is ridiculous.

Something like that would have shown up in the medical examination.  

MM had access to enough pills to kill maybe five people.  This guy makes a list of them. 

In today's world, after Elvis and Michael Jackson, her doctors would have been placed on trial for negligence.

This is why today in California, they keep track of these prescriptions so that no one can be over prescribed.  From my understanding, since many people in California would drive to Baja, they are also beginning to track them in Mexico.

What happened in the Monroe case is really a journalistic disgrace.  I mention this guy who wrote this book, his name is Don McGovern, in my review of that other piece of trash The House of Kennedy. What he does to the guy who really started all this rubbish, the late Robert Slatzer,  should be taught in journalism classes.  He actually found an archives of primary materials that exposes him. And the worst part of it is that the book publishing company was  a part of the fraud. 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

Who could doubt that Marilyn Monroe had so much intimate insider information on so many powerful people that if she were to reveal "everything" she knew and that was shared with her by her many lovers, an entire new history of the rich, famous and powerful of her day would be re-written.

A no-holds-barred tell all book from MM would have been Earth shaking.

She would be killed before such a book could be written and published however.

Do you really think men like Sam Giancana, Sinatra, Howard Hughes, movie studio heads and so many powerful others would allow MM to tell the world about anything of such a personal, private, and secret sharing nature? 

Just looking at a partial list of famous persons Marilyn had sex with blows the mind.

Even Joan Crawford?  Egad!

MM was sexually used to a degree beyond any famous female celebrity I have ever heard about. There must have been many abortions. Surprised her gynecologist didn't write a book or clinical medical journal article on the physical limits she endured.

How could anyone totally dismiss MM dying from something other than a simple medication overdose.  She had so much on so many and in the highest power positions... any number of these threatened suspects could have killed her to keep her from exposing such.

This reality of the highest power intimate connections to Marilyn Monroe is what separates her from a typical depressed woman who isn't involved ( for years ) with so many dangerous characters who meant the most serious business in their daily doings.

Too bad MM ever got involved in the show business industry.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Joe, please.

Like I said, its BS.

MM met Bobby Kennedy all of four times.  And every one of those was in a public place with others there.

She met JFK about four times also.

There is no evidence she ever met or was under control of any mobsters. That was part of the scatological novel Double Cross by Chuck Giancana.

What Don McGovern does so well is he shows that with the above forensically established, the only way one can try and go beyond that is by using sources that are  just not credible.   In fact, he proves they are demonstrable frauds.   Slatzer, the guy who said he had been married to her, was a provable xxxx.  That is in the archives that he discovered which proves the fraudulence.  Slatzer was never married to MM.  And he never saw her so called diary, because Marilyn did not keep one in the little red book he described. She kept it in loose leaf paper and it was discovered years later by her heirs, the Strasberg family.  And guess what:  Its nothing at all like Slatzer and others, who have written on the subject, said it was.

See, but like the pictures in Bernard's book, this proof does not matter.  Because this whole mythology has now become embedded as part of the culture today. Thanks to people like Heymann, Summers and Wolfe.  And even people in the critical community accept it, like Scott and Paul Hoch, who actually bought into Summers' book when it came out.

This will all be in my critique,; in fact that is how I start it.

Edited April 28, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Joseph McBride]

I knew Marilyn Monroe's publicist, Rupert Allan, whom I found to be an honest and sophisticated

man (Rupert was also Princess Grace's publicist and was the partner of General Frank McCarthy, the producer of PATTON who was

the personal secretary of General George C. Marshall during World War II). Rupert told me he thought MM died

of an accidental overdose because she was taking pills and guzzling

small bottles of Champagne she routinely had around her bedroom

and lost track of what she was ingesting. (Yet the autopsy did not show that.)

Rupert said she had called him the night before and was upset because

she had been invited to a party at Peter Lawford's beach house in Santa Monica with

a bunch of callgirls and she thought Lawford and the other men in

that circle considered her little more than a whore. Rupert also told me

that MM had once considered committing suicide when she was

in a New York hospital during her marriage to Arthur Miller in 1960. That was when she was reported to have had

a miscarriage but may have been having an abortion. Rupert said

MM told him she looked out the window of her room on a high floor

of the hospital and thought of jumping but saw a woman in a green coat

waiting for a bus and thought she might kill that woman by landing on

her, so she changed her mind.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Joe Bauer]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:28 PM, Joseph McBride said:

Rupert told me he thought MM died

of an accidental overdose because she was taking pills and guzzling

small bottles of Champagne she routinely had around her bedroom

and lost track of what she was ingesting. (Yet the autopsy did not show that.)

 

If "the autopsy did not show that" then what does that prove or disprove or even suggest regards Rupert's speculation?

 

Of course MM had contemplated suicide, perhaps many times.

Millions of people who have had 10% of her life's stresses and pressures ( beginning with a hugely traumatic childhood ) contemplate suicide.

And certainly some of the men who bragged about bedding MM made this up, but of the many powerful and famous others, it seems illogical that they all did.

And does anyone really think that women loving Frank Sinatra didn't have sex with Monroe?

Right back at you Jim ..."Please!"

Sinatra was Mafia. He knew Sam Giancana well. 

Sinatra could have logically been the Hollywood connection that facilitated the hook up between Giancana with another beautiful and sexy show business starlet Phyllis McGwire. 

Giancana being sexually smitten with this type of famous celebrity starlet could easily explain a similar attraction directed towards Monroe.

If JFK was proven to have had sex with Giancana moll Judyth Exner, it isn't hard to believe he had sex with other women in the Giancana connected Sinatra and pimp Peter Lawford Rat Pack circle ( Monroe herself cites Lawford as procuring call girls to his Santa Monica beach home the night before her death in that call to Rupert Allen - no?) such as Angie Dickinson, Monroe and others?

The famous video of provocatively dressed Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" to JFK in her most animated sultry voice on May 19th, 1962 ( less than three months before her death ) sure doesn't look like a truly innocent case of simple platonic admiration. I think most anyone who knew of JFK's proclivity for dalliances and Monroe's reputation for many relationships sensed a sex-hook up or two between them sometime in the past as being as likely as not.

But, what does this have to do with any scenario of Monroe being murdered versus suicide?

I don't absolutely see the connection between JFK's having sex with Monroe and her death any more than her having had sex with Howard Hughes, Giancana or Daryl Zanuck. etc.

Except these all being super powerful men who for sure didn't want this information made public. To obvious degrees.

Monroe's seriously great mental instability at the time of her death could explain suicide, but it could also bolster the claim that she was unstable enough ( combined with her deep hurt, anger and resentment regards how many times she had been so demeaned and mistreated by powerful men as she told Rupert Allen the night before by Lawford ) to do something else as desperate as suicide such as expressing her inner rage publicly to expose and get back at them?

I suppose John And Dr. Rock Positano are two more authors of a book on Joe Dimaggio and Marilyn Monroe that we are to write off as discredited, but their recounting of Dimaggio's comments about Marilyn and Sinatra and the Kennedy brothers is interesting and at least somewhat bolstered by the known fact that Dimaggio did actually bar Sinatra from Marilyn's funeral.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[John Butler]

54 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Of course MM had contemplated suicide, perhaps many times.

Millions of people who have had 10% of her life's stresses and pressures ( beginning with a hugely traumatic childhood ) contemplate suicide.

And certainly some of the men who bragged about bedding MM made this up, but of the many powerful and famous others, it seems illogical that they all did.

And does anyone really think that women loving Frank Sinatra didn't have sex with Monroe?

Right back at you Jim ..."Please!"

Sinatra was Mafia. He knew Sam Giancana well. 

Sinatra could have logically been the Hollywood connection that facilitated the hook up between Giancana with another beautiful and sexy show business starlet Phyllis McGwire. 

Giancana being sexually smitten with this type of famous celebrity starlet could easily explain a similar attraction directed towards Monroe.

If JFK was proven to have had sex with Giancana moll Judyth Exner, is it hard to believe he had sex with other women in the Giancana associate Sinatra and pimp Peter Lawford Rat Pack circle ( Monroe herself cites Lawford as procuring call girls to his Santa Monica beach home the night before her death in that call to Rupert-no?) such as Angie Dickinson, Monroe and others?

The famous video of provocatively dressed Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" to JFK in her most animated sultry voice on May 19th, 1962 ( less than three months before her death ) sure doesn't look like a truly innocent case of simple platonic admiration. I think most anyone who knew JFK's proclivity for dalliances and Monroe's reputation for many relationships sensed a sex-hook up or two between them sometime in the past as being as likely as not.

But, what does this have to do with any scenario of Monroe being murdered versus suicide?

I don't absolutely see the connection between JFK's having sex with Monroe and her death any more than her having had sex with Howard Hughes, Giancana or Daryl Zanuck. etc.

Except these all being super powerful men who for sure didn't want this information made public. To obvious degrees.

Monroe's seriously great mental instability at the time of her death could explain suicide, but it could also bolster the claim that she was unstable enough, ( combined with her deep hurt, anger and resentment regards how many times she had been so demeaned and mistreated by powerful men as she told Rupert the night before by Lawford) to do something as desperate as suicide and perhaps publicly express her inner rage to expose and get back at them?

I suppose John And Dr. Rock Positano are two more authors of a book on Joe Dimaggio and Marilyn Monroe that we are to write off as discredited, but their recounting of Dimaggio's comments about Marilyn and Sinatra and the Kennedy brothers is interesting and at least somewhat bolstered by the known fact that Dimaggio did actually bar Sinatra from Marilyn's funeral.

 

 

 

I haven't heard anything said about The Murder of Marilyn Monroe:  Case Closed by Jay Margolis and Richard Buskin.  I suppose that is BS and discredited also. 

[James DiEugenio]

John, that might be one of the worst ones ever.

See, by 1982, people like Slatzer and Clemmons had provoked the DA's office to do what is called a threshhold inquiry to see if these guys had any  new evidence to cause a reopening.  That job fell to assistant DA Ronald Carroll.  Someone called Carroll and called himself Rick Stone.  RIck had a story to tell, and eventually sell.  Into the conversation, he revealed himself to be James Hall.  He said he was an ambulance driver and he had been dispatched to Monroe's house the morning after to pick up the body.

Except that, when he and his partner got there in the pre dawn hours of August 5th, Monroe was not dead. They were trying to revive her and according to Hall, they were meeting with some success. But then a doctor arrived with  a black bag and told them to stop.  They did, and he pulled out a hypo and plunged it into her heart. And according to the authors, that is how she died.

That is the story that Stone/Hall sold to the Globe for a considerable amount.  (The Globe is less credible to me than the NE). This is a serious problem in that field.  Its called checkbook journalism.  You have a story to sell, you publicize it through some channel, and then you sell that story since you know the paying partner does not give an iota if its true or not or if it clashes with the known facts.

Once this story got out there, it started growing arms and legs by any number of writers and a bunch of people who said they were also involved. In fact, in its later forms it included tales that MM had been shipped to the hospital--two different ones were named--and after being pronounced DOA, she was returned to her home!!  (I'm not kidding.)

Margolis and Buskin actually say that Monroe's body was found not in her bedroom but her guest house. Problem: there was no bed in the guest house.  Just a card table and chairs.  The first four witnesses who discovered the body all said Monroe was in her bedroom, lying on her stomach on her bed.  Second problem:  Hall/Stone said he arrived between 4 and 6 am.  When the LAPD got there at about 4:30 the body was showing fixed lividity and advanced rigor mortis. So why and how could it be revived?  And how could any medical examiner not note the hypo needle trail into the heart?

The Margolis/Buskin nuttiness includes the idea that RFK was deposed by the LAPD!!  And that deposition was very compromising to the AG.  Problem:  there is no record of any such deposition and none had ever been found either before or after the Margolis/Buskin book was published. SInce that book was published in 2014, that is over a half century. What makes that so incredible is the record of LAPD in the RFK murder case. I should not have to explain that contradiction.  Its like Oswald shooting at both Walker and JFK.  If any such thing had happened, to anyone who knows LA politics--as I do--Davis or Gates would have had it on the front page of the LA Times about an hour after it ended. Just like if the CIA had a photo of Oswald in Mexico City, at either embassy, that would have been on the front cover of the Warren Report.

John,  for obvious reasons, I would not trust any book that has the phrase Case Closed in the title.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Joe, 

That appearance by Monroe in New York took place in May of 1962 at MSG.  It was a combination fundraiser for the Democratic Party and birthday party. Fifteen thousand people were in attendance.  MM was one of about 14 stars who appeared and performed. Monroe was escorted by her former father in law, she went to the Arthur Krim after party and then met some fans back at her hotel after.  And that was it.

Second, there is no evidence at all that the Outfit had anything to do with Monroe.  This is more of Chuck Giancana's BS novel Double Cross. I mean if you listen to this stuff, somehow the Outfit was involved with Monroe back in 1943, when she was married, a housewife and living in Van Nuys. Her name then was Norma Jeane.  If the Outfit was promoting her at that time, they either were doing a poor job, or their influence in Hollywood was greatly exaggerated.

Monroe did not sign her first film contract until late August of 1946 with Fox.  She was represented by Harry Lipton of the NCAC agency.   Johnny Hyde of William Morris bought her contract from Lipton. And then she was signed by Columbia for a rather low price of 3 grand.  We are up to 1948 now, so where is the influence of the Outfit ?

It was really Hyde who did the work for Monroe by getting her parts in The Asphalt Jungle and All About Eve.   Up until that time she had small parts in rather undistinguished pictures. It was those two films that really jump started her career.  And by the time she met Giancana's buddy Sinatra, in 1954, she already was a star.  A year later, she broke her studio contract and became only the second actress, the first being Pickford, to start her own production company. She co founded that company with her friend Milton Greene. A fact Double Cross does not mention.

By the time of that MSG fund raiser, JFK and Sinatra were on the outs.  Through his constant surveillance on the Chicago Don, RFK had discovered the relationship between Sinatra and Giancana. And like Gore Vidal, but for different reasons, Bobby told JFK to cool it with Sinatra.

There is no credible evidence that MM's career was ever influenced by the Outfit or that she was ever associated with the likes of Roselli, Giancana, or Accardo.  I will discuss this at length in my upcoming review. 

 

[Joseph McBride]

". . . there is no evidence at all that the Outfit had anything to do with Monroe."

 What about her traumatic visit to the mobbed-up Cal-Neva Lodge just before her death?

[Pamela Brown]

Upon re-reading this article ...https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-marilyn-monroe-abort-john-f-kennedy-or-robert-f-kennedys-baby-before-taking-her-own-life?ref=home&via=twitter_page

it seems evident that this book is yet another Kennedy apologist tome, making sure to place RFK well out of range the night MM died.  Definitely baloney.