Benjamin Cole Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) From Commentary magazine: "If We Are Serious About Russia, We Must Prepare for Pain" by Noah Rothman "We are witnessing in real-time the death of a geopolitical order that has well served both Americans and the world.---Rothman But, Rothman does not advise we pay for pain by taxing multinationals, or drafting Americans from all classes... Putin is a thug. But here's the rub: The "geopolitical order" that Rothman lionizes---US globalism---is also a spear that impales the employee class in the US. Open borders for products and labor is a daily catastrophe. See Detroit. See real wages. Kind of takes the wind of out the sails for popular support of US foreign-military-trade policy. https://www.commentary.org/noah-rothman/if-we-are-serious-about-russia-we-must-prepare-for-pain/ Edited February 24, 2022 by Benjamin Cole add on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Putin says he doesn't consider Ukraine a real country and just announced he is invading it. Invading sovereign countries is the stuff Hitler did. Any more fake anti-war types want to chime in tonight? About the kind of action that could start World War 3? Go ahead. Show your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Consequences they have never seen. Gee, is that a threat? Putin warns any foreign attempt to interfere with Russian action would lead to 'consequences they have never seen' (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Putin lies more than Trump does, and I didn't think such a thing was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The USA invaded both Iraq and Syria in recent years. And still have troops and conduct operations in both. So drop the Hitler thing. The carnage from both of the above is well-documented and extensive. Personally, I feel the multi-lateral forum provided by the UNSC was the appropriate road forward for the Ukraine issues. This should have been resolved years ago through that format. The Russians, however, expressed their misgivings regarding their national security back in December, did not receive what they considered serious responses in return, and are now acting in what they believe to be their best interests. Others, particularly associated with NATO, will passionately disagree. I believe the Russian position to be not dissimilar to that assumed by the Kennedy administration during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, although more pre-emptive and less crisis. Unless it somehow spills over into NATO aligned countries, and I think there will be meticulous care on all sides to avoid that, this will probably play out like Georgia in 2008 whereby the Russians conduct a series of operations to solve their identified problems and then retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Whataboutism? Really? Get real. I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, and I obviously don't agree with this. Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Whataboutism? Really? Get real. I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, and I obviously don't agree with this. Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. Yes, Matt, some of the amoral pettifoggery around here is difficult to stomach-- as it was during Jeff's repeated denial of Russian hacking of our 2016 election, of Trump's obvious status as a compromised Russian asset, Putin's successful, asymmetrical "Gerasimov Doctrine" warfare to divide the U.S. along racial and cultural fault lines, and Jeff's more recent denial of Trump's January 6th coup attempt. If these threads were innings in a baseball game, Jeff would be batting zero. No runs, no hits, and lots of errors. As for Ukraine, it's extremely upsetting to witness a free people under attack by a scoundrel like Vladimir Putin-- a dictator who has murdered dissenting journalists, incarcerated opposition politicians, and turned the Russian Federation's nascent democracy into a fascist police state. I share your moral indignation. And your point about the what-about-ism is exactly right. I took some flak back in 2003 for opposing the Bush/Cheney invasion of Iraq. I have also been opposed to our imperialist wars in Afghanistan Syria, Libya, and Yemen. But the war crimes of Bush, Cheney, and the Neocons don't justify Putin's invasion of Ukraine. It's an abomination. Charles P. Pierce said it well at Esquire today. When Did It Stop Mattering That Ukraine Doesn't Want to Be Part of Russia? https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a39178953/biden-sanctions-russia-ukraine-putin-oligarchs/ February 23, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt Allison said: Whataboutism? Really? Get real. I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, and I obviously don't agree with this. Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. Just wait until he starts calling insurrectionists and protesters NAZIs or Ustachi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Alleged “Russian hacking” in 2016 remains contentious and unsettled. Trump’s alleged status as a “compromised agent” has not risen above opposition research rumours. The “Gerasimov Doctrine” was entirely made up by a Politico writer. The Jan 6 “coup” appears a clumsy and unsuccessful attempt to follow the precedent of the entirely sketchy 1876 contested election. Obviously, what’s currently happening in Ukraine is extremely serious. As I said before - very senior experienced US diplomats who experienced and directly participated in the entire Cold War period warned in the 1990s that NATO expansion was a bad idea and would lead to serious events. Those events are now happening. Background information is available at the National Security Archive: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Yeah, that's total bullsh*t, Jeff. Details: https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/what-putin-fears-most/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Yeah, that's total bullsh*t, Jeff. Details: https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/what-putin-fears-most/ A much bigger threat no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Paul Brancato said: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/nyregion/trump-ny-fraud-investigation.html?smid=url-share i stick by my feeling that Trump will never see time behind bars Paul B--Yes, it is a lot easier to convict someone in the headlines, in committee hearings, or in a blog than in a courtroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I'm so confused. The right wing attacks "woke" liberals as being communists and socialists and say that's a bad thing. Then they support a communist dictator who invades an independent country with a democratically elected government freely chosen by the people and say that's a good thing. I'm so confused. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Steve:It's all about going after Joe Biden. If Putin can help, they'll cheer him on. I never thought there was a chance of Trump going to jail. A couple of lead prosecutors in New York have left the case. The tax system just allows that abuse. The country's eventually going to have to decide if they are going to pursue the super wealthy to make them pay a fair share of their taxes. They don't have the funding to do it now. So they are just going to go after the low hanging fruit and get a lot of easy chicken scratch from the middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Two headlines on the same day: Trump shows off his ignorance as Russia invades Ukraine: columnist “Well, I think the whole thing, again, would have never happened," Trump claimed. "It shouldn’t happen. And it’s a very sad thing. But you know what is also very dangerous is, you told me about the amphibious attack by Americans, because you and everyone else shouldn’t know about it. They should do that secretly, not being doing that through the great Laura Ingraham. They should be doing that secretly. Nobody should know that, Laura.” Truck convoy leader 'has no idea where he is' and is 'driving in circles' around I-495 Sounds about right. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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