Matt Allison Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 47 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: How did you feel about Saddam Hussein? Did we make the right choice in 1991 or 2003? Just curious. And I know what about ism, and cancelling, and a host of other useful phrases when one wants to shut off debate. Context is important Matt. What? Of course we didn't. George W Bush's administration was criminal and a disgrace. What in god's name does that have to do with what is happening NOW? Are you saying because Bush biffed that up 20 years ago we don't have a right to stand up for Ukraine now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: A “popular uprising” deposing an elected government over a trade policy dispute is not consistent with a functioning democratic system - in fact “deposing” is prima facie “unconstitutional” i.e. illegal a.k.a. a coup or putsch. That it happened in reaction to an internationally-mediated compromise which resolved many issues of the immediate dispute in the opposition’s favour and created space for a proper political debate ahead of a new election highlights the extreme bad faith by which this coup was within hours recklessly declared “legitimate” by the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada. That was the destabilization, not the reactions. I’m almost convinced the intention at the time was to provoke a Russian invasion to restore the legal government, and use the images of “tanks in Kiev” to institute a renewed walled-off decoupled Cold War status that US/NATO policy has since proved eager to promote. The continuing rancor directed to the Soviet Union - which dissolved itself more than 30 years ago - suggests a great deal of frustration that the Cold War did not resolve through a decisive war. Maybe you’ll yet get that opportunity. Thanks Vlad. Back to RT with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 44 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Are you saying because Bush biffed that up 20 years ago we don't have a right to stand up for Ukraine now? If you haven’t noticed - your country didn’t “stand up for Ukraine”. As the promotion of imminent Russian invasion really took steam back in December, your President publicly announced that no American military personnel would be placed in harm’s way. In the past few weeks, as the hysteria multiplied, it was announced that all American citizens should immediately leave the country on their own initiative and expense as there would be no official assistance available. All “trainers” and “advisors” were then removed. The US embassy in Kiev - largest in all of Europe - was shuttered and personnel were first sent to Lviv, in the far west of the country, and then removed entirely to Poland. While this massive evacuation was occurring, amidst daily predictions of massive violence, State Dept officials continued to espouse full commitment to diplomatic procedures yet did absolutely nothing, even as the UN mandated process which everyone agreed was the path forward lay moribund - and as the US and allies continued to ship into the country huge collections of armaments for a Kiev regime which had been essentially left on its own. This is just further evidence that the whole purpose of the Ukraine episode was to create a stick by which to annoy and bait the Russians but now, unlike 2014, the blowback won’t be as easily absorbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: If you haven’t noticed - your country didn’t “stand up for Ukraine”. As the promotion of imminent Russian invasion really took steam back in December, your President publicly announced that no American military personnel would be placed in harm’s way. WTF? You want us to incinerate them and everyone else in the process? That's a switch! Playing both sides of the fence aren't we? You're saying the European countries will have to defer back to the US to get this one under control yet again? But Russia and Putin in particular are lilly-white roses, battered about by the winds, victims of the US and EU and helpless to do anything short of taking up arms and invading a sovereign country. Go buy a clue somewhere Jeff. Putin lined up and volunteered, in fact insisted, on putting his people on the verge of being removed from the international exchange and plunging his people into poverty and starvation. We still own the dollar Jeff and thankfully the full confidence of the rest of the world to invest here. It's going to be a real problem for them shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 This seriously might be the silliest thing I've ever read on this site. 45 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: If you haven’t noticed - your country didn’t “stand up for Ukraine”. As the promotion of imminent Russian invasion really took steam back in December, your President publicly announced that no American military personnel would be placed in harm’s way. In the past few weeks, as the hysteria multiplied, it was announced that all American citizens should immediately leave the country on their own initiative and expense as there would be no official assistance available. All “trainers” and “advisors” were then removed. The US embassy in Kiev - largest in all of Europe - was shuttered and personnel were first sent to Lviv, in the far west of the country, and then removed entirely to Poland. While this massive evacuation was occurring, amidst daily predictions of massive violence, State Dept officials continued to espouse full commitment to diplomatic procedures yet did absolutely nothing, even as the UN mandated process which everyone agreed was the path forward lay moribund - and as the US and allies continued to ship into the country huge collections of armaments for a Kiev regime which had been essentially left on its own. This is just further evidence that the whole purpose of the Ukraine episode was to create a stick by which to annoy and bait the Russians but now, unlike 2014, the blowback won’t be as easily absorbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: This seriously might be the silliest thing I've ever read on this site. You don't understand! We made them invade! The blood is on our hands when they slaughter people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 U.S. Supreme Court formally ends Trump's fight over Capitol attack records By Lawrence Hurley https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-formally-ends-trumps-fight-over-capitol-attack-records-2022-02-22/ “WASHINGTON, Feb 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday brought a formal end to former President Donald Trump's request to block the release of White House records sought by the Democratic-led congressional panel investigating last year's deadly attack on the Capitol by a mob of his supporters. The court's decision to formally reject Trump's appeal follows its Jan. 19 order that led to the documents being handed over to the House of Representatives investigative committee by the federal agency that stores government and historical records. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit on Dec. 9 upheld a lower court ruling that Trump had no basis to challenge President Joe Biden's decision to allow the records to be handed over to the House of Representatives select committee. Trump then appealed to the Supreme Court.” “Trump and his allies have waged an ongoing legal battle with the House select committee seeking to block access to documents and witnesses. Trump has sought to invoke a legal principle known as executive privilege, which protects the confidentially of some internal White House communications, a stance rejected by lower courts.” This is going to open up a lot of things. People like Giuliani and Meadows and Bannon have refused to obey Congress’s subpoenas based on Trumps claims of Executive Privilege. I think the flood gates will finally open. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) Hmmm... I haven't seen this kind of M$M false flag propaganda since the Bush/Cheney years, when the CIA and the U.S. military "discovered" and televised those fake videos and tapes "implicating" Osama Bin Laden in the 9/11 op... 🤥 ‘Dumb and lazy’: the flawed films of Ukrainian ‘attacks’ made by Russia’s ‘fake factory’ | Ukraine | The Guardian February 22, 2022 Edited February 22, 2022 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 30 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: This is going to open up a lot of things. People like Giuliani and Meadows and Bannon have refused to obey Congress’s subpoenas based on Trumps claims of Executive Privilege. I think the flood gates will finally open. Steve Thomas You're correct. The SCOTUS decision now renders that ridiculously weak subpoena defying position by these three Trump banditos as meaningless and powerless. They must be super desperate at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Hmmm... I haven't seen this kind of M$M false flag propaganda since the Bush/Cheney years, when the CIA and the U.S. military "discovered" and televised those fake videos and tapes "implicating" Osama Bin Laden in the 9/11 op... 🤥 ‘Dumb and lazy’: the flawed films of Ukrainian ‘attacks’ made by Russia’s ‘fake factory’ | Ukraine | The Guardian February 22, 2022 Watch Fox. Happens all the time and they don't do retractions as policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Fox is a full-on anti-America propaganda operation. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Yep. 100% https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/22/blinken-putin-plan-invading-ukraine-00010795 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 I can’t help but notice how lacking in historical depth this discussion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Quite the contrary, Paul. I pointed out that Vladimir Putin has never accepted the demise of the USSR, over 30 years ago. I said all along his plan is to rebuild it, and by invading Crimea and now Ukraine that is precisely what he is trying to do. That's all this is about. Nothing more. An ex-KGB dictator trying to put the Soviet Union back together again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Quite the contrary, Paul. I pointed out that Vladimir Putin has never accepted the demise of the USSR, over 30 years ago. I said all along his plan is to rebuild it, and by invading Crimea and now Ukraine that is precisely what he is trying to do. That's all this is about. Nothing more. An ex-KGB dictator trying to put the Soviet Union back together again. Don't forget looting the country. That's important. As Paul commented before the Ukraine does have resources and a fantastic gateway to Western Europe. This is standard European behavior and you can just pick your century and at times century and year. It just hasn't happened significantly since WW2. Aside from Crimea of course and Czechoslovakia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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