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Did EVEN the Warren Commission Believe Howard Brennan?


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After re-reading Howard Brennan's affidavit to the Sheriff's Office on 11/22, there is something really strange here. It might be just terrible syntax on Brennan's part, but I doubt it.

This may seem crazy at first read, but here it goes:

 

Before the motorcade got to Elm and Houston, beyond any doubt, Brennan, seated on the retaining wall, and facing northeast, was looking directly at . . .

The Dal-Tex Building.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dal-Tex+Building,+501+Elm+St,+Dallas,+TX+75202/@32.7781937,-96.8089032,46a,35y,23.25h,75.81t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e991673a29e99:0x4412377c94c837dc!8m2!3d32.7799682!4d-96.8075101

"I was facing  in a northerly direction looking not only at Elm Street but I could see the large red brick building across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window."

"The president's car . . . was about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say THE PRESIDENT'S BACK WAS IN LINE WITH THE LAST WINDOW I HAVE PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED I heard what I though was a backfire. It run in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out of the WINDOW OF THE RED BRICK BUILDING and I looked up at the building . . ."

" Then the man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight."

As I wrote earlier, it's impossible for anyone to stand and shoot out the 6th floor SE window in the TSBD. 

But could someone have have been standing in a window of the Dal-Tex building and been visible from the waist up to Howard Brennan?

http://www.prayer-man.com/sniper-position-in-daltex-building-by-shell-hershorn/#

Maybe so. Those re-enactment photos show that  for at least a little while, honest investigators thought so, too.  (We know it was impossible to stand and shoot through the TSBD window.)

So, what can we say for certain?

1. Brennan was facing directly at the Dal-Tex building before the assassination.

2. While both the TSBD and the Dal-Tex building were brick, the Dal-Tex buiding was a deep RED. On 11/22/63, within an hour or so of the assassination, Brennan TWICE described the building's brick as RED!

Dal-Tex Building httpswwwemporiscomimagesshow396664Largea

3. Both the TSBD and the Dal-Tex had seven stories. 

4. Brennan's confused wording about the "last window" refers NOT to the westernmost window in the TSBD (as many of us have assumed), but instead to the one he said  "previously described". Because Elm street had a double curve to it and because William Greer took a very wide turn onto Elm, a sniper in the Dal-Tex might well waited a moment for the limo to be centered in the middle of the street. This seems to be what Brennan said!

This picture below was taken on Monday, 11/25/63. The "sniper's window" in the TSBD was never "in line" with the motorcade on Elm. 

But this view of the Dal-Tex shows it sure was!

Aerial of Dealey Plaza

 

If you didn't already know the "official" story, which one of these two buildings would you pick as the "large red brick building"?

Dealey Plaza 2003.jpg

 

Richard E. Sprague, Jim Garrison, Josiah Thompson and Fletcher Prouty all believed at least some shots came from the Dal-Tex building. I can personally attest that Harold Weisberg was almost certain of it. 

If any conspirator/shooter/radioman/spotter etc. was in the Dal-Tex, and if that person was seen by Brennan, then enormous pressure would have placed on Brennan to change his statement.

By the time of his Warren Commission testimony, that would appear to be the case. 

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Paul, that was an excellent post with very good information.  Being one that has not delved deeply enough to study each witness statement in context, this is amazing to me.  This would put the shooter at the eastern end of the Dal-Tex well beyond the area most have studied as a place for a shot.  That (2nd from the east) window in the Dal-Tex has a view straight down Elm all the way due to the curve to the triple underpass.  Even those who considered the Dal-Tex were looking at the windows facing the TSBD, not the ones on the south side.  This brings us back to the people (Jim Braden, for one) that were stopped coming out from that building.  Brennan must have been very confused when everyone (officials/police) changed his story to mean the TSBD.  Very interesting.  Thank you.

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54 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

After re-reading Howard Brennan's affidavit to the Sheriff's Office on 11/22, there is something really strange here. It might be just terrible syntax on Brennan's part, but I doubt it.

This may seem crazy at first read, but here it goes:

 

Before the motorcade got to Elm and Houston, beyond any doubt, Brennan, seated on the retaining wall, and facing northeast, was looking directly at . . .

The Dal-Tex Building.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dal-Tex+Building,+501+Elm+St,+Dallas,+TX+75202/@32.7781937,-96.8089032,46a,35y,23.25h,75.81t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e991673a29e99:0x4412377c94c837dc!8m2!3d32.7799682!4d-96.8075101

"I was facing  in a northerly direction looking not only at Elm Street but I could see the large red brick building across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window."

"The president's car . . . was about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say THE PRESIDENT'S BACK WAS IN LINE WITH THE LAST WINDOW I HAVE PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED I heard what I though was a backfire. It run in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out of the WINDOW OF THE RED BRICK BUILDING and I looked up at the building . . ."

" Then the man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight."

As I wrote earlier, it's impossible for anyone to stand and shoot out the 6th floor SE window in the TSBD. 

But could someone have have been standing in a window of the Dal-Tex building and been visible from the waist up to Howard Brennan?

http://www.prayer-man.com/sniper-position-in-daltex-building-by-shell-hershorn/#

Maybe so. Those re-enactment photos show that  for at least a little while, honest investigators thought so, too.  (We know it was impossible to stand and shoot through the TSBD window.)

So, what can we say for certain?

1. Brennan was facing directly at the Dal-Tex building before the assassination.

2. While both the TSBD and the Dal-Tex building were brick, the Dal-Tex buiding was a deep RED. On 11/22/63, within an hour or so of the assassination, Brennan TWICE described the building's brick as RED!

 

3. Both the TSBD and the Dal-Tex had seven stories. 

4. Brennan's confused wording about the "last window" refers NOT to the westernmost window in the TSBD (as many of us have assumed), but instead to the one he said  "previously described". Because Elm street had a double curve to it and because William Greer took a very wide turn onto Elm, a sniper in the Dal-Tex might well waited a moment for the limo to be centered in the middle of the street. This seems to be what Brennan said!

This picture below was taken on Monday, 11/25/63. The "sniper's window" in the TSBD was never "in line" with the motorcade on Elm. 

But this view of the Dal-Tex shows it sure was!

 

 

If you didn't already know the "official" story, which one of these two buildings would you pick as the "large red brick building"?

 

 

Richard E. Sprague, Jim Garrison, Josiah Thompson and Fletcher Prouty all believed at least some shots came from the Dal-Tex building. I can personally attest that Harold Weisberg was almost certain of it. 

If any conspirator/shooter/radioman/spotter etc. was in the Dal-Tex, and if that person was seen by Brennan, then enormous pressure would have placed on Brennan to change his statement.

By the time of his Warren Commission testimony, that would appear to be the case. 

Paul, nicely deciphered.

If interested, some additional support starting here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26525-unveiling-the-limo-stop/?do=findComment&comment=421212

 

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Further, from Brennan's WC testimony, he claimed that he first noticed the "fire escape ACROSS from the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store . . ."

Huh?

From his vantage point on the wall, he could NOT have seen people in either the windows or  fire escape on the east side of the TSBD!

So what did he mean? (Did someone "improve" his testimony later by deleting oh I dunno, "the large red brick building" and inserting that strange clause "the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store"? You betcha!!)

The fire escapes on the Dal-Tex. Those fire escapes were plain as day, directly in his line of sight. And there were people hanging out the Dal-Tex windows and on the fire escape!

Dal-Tex_Bldg.jpg

 

 

Photo taken by Ike Altgens 1.6 seconds after the President reacts to a throat wound

When shown a picture of the "sniper's window", Brennan (incredibly) declined to identify it!

Mr. Brennan: "I am confused whether this is the same window."

Mr. Belin: "You mean because some windows are open below it?"

Mr. Brennan: "No. The way the building is built, it seems like this is more or less a long window with a divider in the middle . . . "

Because of "the way the building is built?" What the  . . .?

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0076a.htm

Later, after Brennan told a cop what he'd seen, the cop had to "give some orders or something on the east side of the  building on Houston Street." 

Hmm.

Brennan (supposedly) just identified the very window from which the shots came (in the TSBD?),  but the cop then gives "orders" on the east side of the building on Houston Street"?

Later, Brennan testified that the DPD walked him  on  . . . Houston Street, but just as he was going to tell us that they "walked back to" . . . Belin immediately cut him off with "Well, just put a mark in there"

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0079b.htm

This strange exchange makes me think Brennan testified not only about the 6th floor window, but also about some other window somewhere else:

Mr. Belin: "Mr. Brennan, in this sixth floor window (THIS sixth floor window? As opposed to the other sixth floor window about which Brennan had information?) where you saw the gun fired, did you see any objects of any kind in the window, or near the window?"

Mr Brennan: "Yes. Through the window, which I referred to as back in the book store building, I could see stacks of boxes." 

"Back in the book store building"? I thought in the official story there was only ONE building that mattered.

Yet here in this bizarre exchange, both Belin and Brennan clearly implied that there was another window in another building of interest!

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0080b.htm

 

To sum up,

I believe in both his first day affidavit, and in his WC testimony, Howard Brennan (inadvertently) dropped hints that the Dal-Tex building was the location of at least some conspiratorial activity to which he was a witness.

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3 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Further, from Brennan's WC testimony, he claimed that he first noticed the "fire escape ACROSS from the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store . . ."

Huh?

From his vantage point on the wall, he could NOT have seen people in either the windows or  fire escape on the east side of the TSBD!

So what did he mean? (Did someone "improve" his testimony later by deleting oh I dunno, "the large red brick building" and inserting that strange clause "the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store"? You betcha!!)

The fire escapes on the Dal-Tex. Those fire escapes were plain as day, directly in his line of sight. And there were people hanging out the Dal-Tex windows and on the fire escape!

Dal-Tex_Bldg.jpg

 

 

Photo taken by Ike Altgens 1.6 seconds after the President reacts to a throat wound

When shown a picture of the "sniper's window", Brennan (incredibly) declined to identify it!

Mr. Brennan: "I am confused whether this is the same window."

Mr. Belin: "You mean because some windows are open below it?"

Mr. Brennan: "No. The way the building is built, it seems like this is more or less a long window with a divider in the middle . . . "

Because of "the way the building is built?" What the  . . .?

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0076a.htm

Later, after Brennan told a cop what he'd seen, the cop had to "give some orders or something on the east side of the  building on Houston Street." 

Hmm.

Brennan (supposedly) just identified the very window from which the shots came (in the TSBD?),  but the cop then gives "orders" on the east side of the building on Houston Street"?

Later, Brennan testified that the DPD walked him  on  . . . Houston Street, but just as he was going to tell us that they "walked back to" . . . Belin immediately cut him off with "Well, just put a mark in there"

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0079b.htm

This strange exchange makes me think Brennan testified not only about the 6th floor window, but also about some other window somewhere else:

Mr. Belin: "Mr. Brennan, in this sixth floor window (THIS sixth floor window? As opposed to the other sixth floor window about which Brennan had information?) where you saw the gun fired, did you see any objects of any kind in the window, or near the window?"

Mr Brennan: "Yes. Through the window, which I referred to as back in the book store building, I could see stacks of boxes." 

"Back in the book store building"? I thought in the official story there was only ONE building that mattered.

Yet here in this bizarre exchange, both Belin and Brennan clearly implied that there was another window in another building of interest!

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0080b.htm

 

To sum up,

I believe in both his first day affidavit, and in his WC testimony, Howard Brennan (inadvertently) dropped hints that the Dal-Tex building was the location of at least some conspiratorial activity to which he was a witness.

Paul,

After re-reading Brennan's various statements, I have come to a new conclusion on Brennan.  He was resisting what the DPD, Sheriff's Office, and FBI wanted to put in his mouth.  Nearly everything he said he screwed up later, or contradicted what he had said at an earlier time.  Either he was very (deleted the cuss word here) stupid or something else was going on with him.  There are way to many contradictions or just stupid things he said. 

CE-477-and-478-a.jpg

The red x was where Howard was sitting in 3 films.  There's no way he could have seen the east side of the TSBD, windows or fire escape.

Edited by John Butler
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Going back to the discussion of Brennan's description of where he saw the shooter, does this also tie in with where the prisoners in the jail said they saw someone with a gun possibly.  I don't remember where exactly the jail was located, but seem to recall that it was mentioned as being across the street from the TSBD and there was some discussion as to whether they could see the so called snipers nest due to the angle.  If Brennan's description (as highlighted by the red circle) is correct, there would have been no problem with seeing directly across the street.  The prisoners stories could have been changed easily to reflect the TSBD instead of the Dal-Tex building, just as Brennan's was.  Even easier, since they were prisoners and weren't available for interviews and weren't searched out because their view of the supposed shooting site was limited.  If you take Brennan at his word, one of the circled windows would have been where he actually saw a gunman.  Look at the fantastic, totally unobstructed view this gunman would have had down Elm (ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS).

dal-tex.jpg

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38 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Going back to the discussion of Brennan's description of where he saw the shooter, does this also tie in with where the prisoners in the jail said they saw someone with a gun possibly.  I don't remember where exactly the jail was located, but seem to recall that it was mentioned as being across the street from the TSBD and there was some discussion as to whether they could see the so called snipers nest due to the angle.  If Brennan's description (as highlighted by the red circle) is correct, there would have been no problem with seeing directly across the street.  The prisoners stories could have been changed easily to reflect the TSBD instead of the Dal-Tex building, just as Brennan's was.  Even easier, since they were prisoners and weren't available for interviews and weren't searched out because their view of the supposed shooting site was limited.  If you take Brennan at his word, one of the circled windows would have been where he actually saw a gunman.  Look at the fantastic, totally unobstructed view this gunman would have had down Elm (ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS).

dal-tex.jpg

No Richard.  The windows you have circled are on the front of the Dal-Tex building facing Elm before it crosses Houston.  The white building to the right of it in the picture with the columns of windows in the center is the jail.  It's upper windows would have a good view of the sixth floor of the TSBD, itself obscured by the trees in the picture.  

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7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

No Richard.  The windows you have circled are on the front of the Dal-Tex building facing Elm before it crosses Houston.  The white building to the right of it in the picture with the columns of windows in the center is the jail.  It's upper windows would have a good view of the sixth floor of the TSBD, itself obscured by the trees in the picture.  

Ron, that is exactly what I was stating.  These are the "eastern most windows" of the Dal-Tex and they are directly across from the jail.  The prisoners would have a direct view and the shooter would have a direct unobstructed view down Elm.  Brennan seems to have a good sense of direction.  He states that he is facing northward and describes the location of the shooter as being in the eastern most windows.  He doesn't use landmarks for locations, he uses directional language.

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9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Nice going Paul.  I agree with that view of what he was saying.  

As they say it fits the evidence.

Jim,

What do you think of the idea that Brennan was not a fool or big time stupid, but this was his way of fighting back against those who wanted him to say things that he knew was untrue.

I got this impression on re-reading his testimony and would like to clear that from my mind under good advice.

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8 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I don't know what to make of that John.

I have never read his book, which is not very easy to find.

Brennan's Book?  No, I was speaking of re-reading his WC testimony and other statements he made to the various authorities, the Dallas authorities and FBI.

It's just a notion I can't get out of my head.  Was he fighting back with stupidity against the folks such as the FBI and others who wanted him to say things that they could use to frame Oswald. 

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My interest in this piqued after Jolliffe's comments regarding Brennan and which building he may have been referring to. I believe shot(s) were fired from the Dal-Tex building.

While doing some digging, I noticed this statement from Brennan in his WC testimony:

Quote

Mr. BELIN. All right.
Will you put a mark to “G” at the end ? And I believe you said that the car
that you talked to the Secret Service agent in was at point “G” approximately?
Mr. BRENNAN. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, are these accurate or approximate locations, Mr. Brennan?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, don’t you have photographs of me talking to the Secret
Service men right here?
Mr. BELIN. I don’t believe so.
Mr. BRENNAN. You should have. It was on television before I got home my
wife saw it.
Mr. BELIN. On television?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. At this time we do not have them.
Do you remember what station they were on television?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. But they had it. And I called I believe Mr. Lish who
requested that he cut those films or get them cut of the FBI. I believe you
might know about them. Somebody cut those films, because a number of times
later the same films were shown, and that part was cut.
Mr. BELIN. Who would Mr. Lish be with?
Mr. BRENNAN. The FBI.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
We thank you very much for that information.
Is there anything else that you did at point “G”

I believe he is referring to the section of film beginning below at 2:00:12 (I slowed it down for better clarity) (also sorry for the DVP link but I think his was slightly better clarity)

I'm quite certain that is Brennan, I'm not as familiar with the other faces though. Can anyone identify them?

Edited by Mark Stevens
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