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Kamala Harris and the RFK assassination


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On 8/14/2020 at 3:32 PM, Chris Barnard said:

[...] She was a deplorable choice of candidate with a questionable track record. Blame the DNC, the party catastrophically failed. 
 

tnx for using the callout word "deplorable." Deplorable's specifically! Brings back solid memories concerning a very large slice of the 2016 GOP voting bloc...

 

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34 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Here’s exactly what the average voters were familiar with:

image.png

See the little “Russia” and “Russian” on the red side?

See the big blue E-MAIL?

Of course you do, you can’t miss it

That’s not an argument.  It’s an appeal for amnesia.

So you’re done with blaming Obama.

Good.

So, the use of marketing/propaganda isn't fair if your political party loses? That's very democratic of you. 

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26 minutes ago, David G. Healy said:

tnx for using the callout word "deplorable." Deplorable's specifically! Brings back solid memories concerning a very large slice of the 2016 GOP voting bloc...

 

You're right, it's very relevant. Does conjure memories of when certain members of the political class misunderstood a large proportion of voters, assuming they were illiterate, redneck, racist morons and labelling them so. What a political faux pas. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 4:29 PM, Chris Barnard said:

So, the use of marketing/propaganda isn't fair if your political party loses? That's very democratic of you. 

You are adept at practicing amnesia, I see.

Allow me to remind you of what you wrote earlier:

Look at the news networks backing Hilary, you think the dems weren’t doing everything they could to smear Trump? 
 
This baseless assertion is debunked by the fact that the networks clearly favored Trump — giving him billions of dollars in free air time, burying the Russian-hack and Steele Dossier stories, and harping relentlessly on Hillary’s  e-mails. .

Nice to see you acknowledge the fact that the networks conducted a pro-Trump marketing/propaganda campaign.

And you haven’t reverted to Obama-bashing, which was your original intent.

Good show, Chris.

 

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1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You are adept at practicing amnesia, I see.

Allow me to remind you of what you wrote earlier:

Look at the news networks backing Hilary, you think the dems weren’t doing everything they could to smear Trump? 
 
This baseless assertion is debunked by the fact that the networks clearly favored Trump — giving him billions of dollars in free air time, burying the Russian-hack and Steele Dossier stories, and harping relentlessly on Hillary’s  e-mails. .

Nice to see you acknowledge the fact that the networks conducted a pro-Trump marketing/propaganda campaign.

And you haven’t reverted to Obama-bashing, which was your original intent.

Good show, Chris.

 


No, you're just trying to make some bizarre case that is frankly baffling. Every election ever has been rife with propaganda from all sides. You didn't know? You thought "The News" was an honest, unbiased collection of actual events in the world that day, told by neutrals? You think CNN and Co at presidential; briefings are doing Trump favours politically? What fantasy are you living in Cliff?

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On 8/14/2020 at 5:12 PM, Chris Barnard said:


No, you're just trying to make some bizarre case that is frankly baffling. Every election ever has been rife with propaganda from all sides.

But that’s not what you claimed.  You claimed the networks were for Hillary, when they were clearly for Trump.

You claimed that people were tired of Obama, but as Sandy showed Obama had a 59% approval rating.

You seem baffled by your own baseless assertions.

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You didn't know? You thought "The News" was an honest, unbiased collection of actual events in the world that day, told by neutrals?

Amnesia again.  You claimed pro-Clinton bias where the opposite held sway.

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You think CNN and Co at presidential; briefings are doing Trump favours politically? 

Now you are discussing the Trump occupation of the White House.  We *were* discussing the 2016 campaign, remember?

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What fantasy are you living in Cliff?

Living happily ever after with Karen O. of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

 

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5 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

But that’s not what you claimed.  You claimed the networks were for Hillary, when they were clearly for Trump.

You claimed that people were tired of Obama, but as Sandy showed Obama had a 59% approval rating.

You seem baffled by your own baseless assertions.

Amnesia again.  You claimed pro-Clinton bias where the opposite held sway.

Now you are discussing the Trump occupation of the White House.  We *were* discussing the 2016 campaign, remember?

Living happily ever after with Karen O. of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

 


Ah ok, so they all helped Trump get elected because they liked his TV show and then immediately turned on him the moment he got in office. That makes more sense now. Thanks for clearing that up. 🙂I can see why the others ignore you Cliff, i'm out. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 1:55 PM, Chris Barnard said:

That’s purely hypothetical though. If you had chosen a set period of time for Hilary in the 2016 run, polls would say she was almost certain to be elected and she wasn’t. All those people who were couldn’t be bothered to participate in polls, suddenly turned up to vote and Hilary lost. 
 

With your table there are factors with skew that poll. For example of the people who voted for Eisenhower in an election are deceased for example. Its not a multi-varied analysis, which is really needed to produce conclusive results. 
 

Using the same logic, this doesn’t prove Obama is the worst, post WWII either:

Worst President since World War II:

  1. Barack Obama (33%)
  2. George W. Bush (28%)
  3. Richard Nixon (13%)
  4. Jimmy Carter (8%)
  5. Lyndon B. Johnson (tie) (3%)
  6. Ronald Reagan (tie) (3%)
  7. Bill Clinton (tie) (3%)
  8. Gerald Ford (tie) (2%)
  9. George H. W. Bush (tie) (2%)
  10. Dwight Eisenhower (1%)
  11. Harry S. Truman (tie) (<1%)
  12. John F. Kennedy (tie) (<1%)

 

It would be rational and enlightening to have this poll:

Most Personally Corrupt President Since WW II?

Nixon would probably be number 1, simply because there are still enough respondents who lived through and remember Watergate or have a general U.S. history knowledge of this hugely covered, reported and written about event.

Include even a major A list film with two of our biggest box office stars of the day in the lead roles...Hoffman and Redford.

Watergate was such an unprecedented, hugely involved executive branch criminal affair that was so far reaching and implicating of even more blatant criminal act abuses of power ( Pentagon Papers just one of these ) that 25 of Nixon's highest ranking staff and other connected and directed cronies ( the Plumbers ) went to prison!

LBJ's corrupt background was in many ways deeper and more lifelong than Nixon's, yet this reality has been purposely and successfully hidden from the standard public historical record. An amazing long term feat of historical record controlling power.

Trump's personal long term corruption is being more and more exposed with every new insider tell-all book ( a never ending stream and more than any other President while in office ) with most becoming best sellers so it's now widespread main stream knowledge. 

There is so much dirt on Trump being blown up into the public awareness wind it's becoming a virtual dust storm event. So in your face real it's now beyond denial or down playing.

As bad as Trump is in this category as well as Nixon, my number one would still be LBJ.

With a suspicion of his foreknowledge and cover-up efforts regards JFK setting him apart in this regards imo.

Clinton rounds out the top 4 imo. Russ Baker's Bush family expose may influence others in this poll.

A list with this specific theme is at least as important as those general theme others imo. 

Would love to see some forum member "Most Corrupt President" picks and the order in which they place them and why.

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On 8/14/2020 at 5:38 PM, Chris Barnard said:


Ah ok, so they all helped Trump get elected because they liked his TV show and then immediately turned on him the moment he got in office.

You bet! He immediately started conducting himself in a hateful manner — lying about the size of his inaugural crowd, banning Muslims, overturning tax breaks for FHA mortgage holders, promoting a Russian asset to National Security Advisor and then firing him.

Bad guys make compelling television.

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That makes more sense now. Thanks for clearing that up. 🙂I can see why the others ignore you Cliff, i'm out. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

It would be rational and enlightening to have this poll:

Most Personally Corrupt President Since WW II?

Nixon would probably be number 1, simply because there are still enough respondents who lived through and remember Watergate or have a general U.S. history knowledge of this hugely covered, reported and written about event.

Include even a major A list film with two of our biggest box office stars of the day in the lead roles...Hoffman and Redford.

Watergate was such an unprecedented, hugely involved executive branch criminal affair that was so far reaching and implicating of even more blatant criminal act abuses of power ( Pentagon Papers just one of these ) that 25 of Nixon's highest ranking staff and other connected and directed cronies ( the Plumbers ) went to prison!

LBJ's corrupt background was in many ways deeper and more lifelong than Nixon's, yet this reality has been purposely and successfully hidden from the standard public historical record. An amazing long term feat of historical record controlling power.

Trump's personal long term corruption is being more and more exposed with every new insider tell-all book ( a never ending stream and more than any other President while in office ) with most becoming best sellers so it's now widespread main stream knowledge. 

There is so much dirt on Trump being blown up into the public awareness wind it's becoming a virtual dust storm event. So in your face it's now beyond denial or down playing.

As bad as Trump is in this category as well as Nixon, my number one would still be LBJ.

With a suspicion of his foreknowledge and cover-up efforts regards JFK setting him apart in this regards.

Clinton rounds out the top 4 imo.

A list with this specific theme is more important than the general theme others imo. 

Would love to see more forum member "Most Corrupt President" picks and the order in which you place them and why.

That's a great idea. LBJ is certainly up there, I do wonder how much will come out about Bill Clinton in future decades. If Russ Baker's Bush family book is to be believed, thats some history. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, Joe Bauer said:

It would be rational and enlightening to have this poll:

Most Personally Corrupt President Since WW II?

Nixon would probably be number 1, simply because there are still enough respondents who lived through and remember Watergate or have a general U.S. history knowledge of this hugely covered, reported and written about event.

Include even a major A list film with two of our biggest box office stars of the day in the lead roles...Hoffman and Redford.

Watergate was such an unprecedented, hugely involved executive branch criminal affair that was so far reaching and implicating of even more blatant criminal act abuses of power ( Pentagon Papers just one of these ) that 25 of Nixon's highest ranking staff and other connected and directed cronies ( the Plumbers ) went to prison!

LBJ's corrupt background was in many ways deeper and more lifelong than Nixon's, yet this reality has been purposely and successfully hidden from the standard public historical record. An amazing long term feat of historical record controlling power.

Trump's personal long term corruption is being more and more exposed with every new insider tell-all book ( a never ending stream and more than any other President while in office ) with most becoming best sellers so it's now widespread main stream knowledge. 

There is so much dirt on Trump being blown up into the public awareness wind it's becoming a virtual dust storm event. So in your face it's now beyond denial or down playing.

As bad as Trump is in this category as well as Nixon, my number one would still be LBJ.

With a suspicion of his foreknowledge and cover-up efforts regards JFK setting him apart in this regards.

Clinton rounds out the top 4 imo.

A list with this specific theme is more important than the general theme others imo. 

Would love to see more forum member "Most Corrupt President" picks and the order in which you place them and why.

I think a "Rate a President" type survey would work well. Something like this.

The higher the total, the worse the President.

Sorted Chronologically*

 

 

Sorted Worst to Best 

  • LBJ = 49
  • Bush 1 = 47
  • Obama = 41
  • Nixon = 37
  • Clinton = 35
  • Ford = 34
  • Bush 2 = 29
  • Carter = 25
  • Reagan & Trump = 12
  • JFK = 9

 

*each column sums to 66.

Totally Scientific Survey and based on a response sample of 1.

My excel crashed or else I would have sorted the table by Total.

 

Edited by Robert Wheeler
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BW: 

Maybe if Obama had been a true outsider, and started doing things that pissed off Right Wing war mongers (myself included at the time) we would have seen the apoplectic rants and Coup attempts by Neo-Con string pullers back then, that we are currently witnessing now.

The lack of a cohesive effort to get rid of Obama extra-Democratically, or to rally around Romney in any meaningful way, is almost a testament to Obama's membership in the Club, which includes most of the Presidents, and their Election day, counter-party rivals, back to JFK.

I think this is a pretty good description of why Obama was a disappointment.  Because he was African American, because he promised Hope and Change, because he was a good speaker, and because everyone was sick of W and many Dems did not want to continue Clintonism, he won the nomination and election.

There were two things that put me off about Obama.  First, I have a friend who lives in Illinois and watched his career from the start. He told me that there were two "tells" about him.  First, all of those controversial issues which he managed to avoid voting on in the state senate; second, when he ran against another African American for congress, he got bombed.

In support of this, the late Jerry Policoff told me that Obama had attended meetings of Rubin's Hamilton Project.  And, in fact, many people from that group went into the White House after Obama was elected.  That was a good indication that Obama was not going to launch a restructure or a New Deal in the face of the 2007-08 economic crash.  What he was going to do was a bailout and stimulus package.  As I have addressed this before, what this resulted in was 1.) Concentrations of wealth that were even worse than before, and 2.) Huge budget deficits  that did not begin to stabilize until 2013, but were still as bad as W's even then. And an accumulation of long term debt.  In other words that is what the public got for using their money to rehab Wall Street from their own corruption and insatiable greed. Again, in retrospect, the non recourse loans were predictable. Socialism for the rich. And JP Morgan, who really started the whole thing with the invention of derivatives, benefited perhaps the most.  And no one was indicted.

Jerry told me one other thing about Obama.  He said, from what he had heard, Biden and Kerry wanted to promote him as a counter to Jesse Jackson.  Biden especially did not want another Jackson involved in Democratic presidential politics again. This helps explain both Biden as VP, and Biden and Obama's choice of  Kamala Harris. 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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