Synchronized Shots

[Chuck Schwartz]

Ron, I agree with you. I am almost done with Doug Horne's book " JFK's War with the National Security Establishment: Why JFK was Assassinated" .   (I ordered it (paperback)  from Amazon for $13 (before shipping and taxes). It appears that the book was written in 2013 or 2014.) The book is very similar to the presenation you viewed. And, it is easier to follow, in my opinion. But the presentation contains emphasis that Doug gives you live.  Both are good.

[Tony Krome]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:35 PM, John Butler said:

The two DPD officers, Foster and White, said there was a train on the railroad bridge. 

No, two trains are implied. White said the train he saw was heading NORTH. Foster said the train he saw was heading SOUTH

[John Butler]

7 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

No, two trains are implied. White said the train he saw was heading NORTH. Foster said the train he saw was heading SOUTH

Tony,

Correct me if I'm wrong.  But, didn't Foster originally say there was not a train on the railroad bridge.  But, then later changed his testimony.  It has been some time or I missed where he said what direction the train was traveling in on the bridge.  

Could you point out where he said that?  And, possibly when?  Nowadays, I have to many problems to have a good memory.  

[Tony Krome]

6 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Tony,

Correct me if I'm wrong.  But, didn't Foster originally say there was not a train on the railroad bridge.  But, then later changed his testimony.  It has been some time or I missed where he said what direction the train was traveling in on the bridge.  

Could you point out where he said that?  And, possibly when?  Nowadays, I have to many problems to have a good memory.  

Foster CD 897. He heard a voice from the motorcade "get out of here" and immediately surveilled the area but could not see the west side of the overpass and White due to the train.

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Foster CD 897. He heard a voice from the motorcade "get out of here" and immediately surveilled the area but could not see the west side of the overpass and White due to the train.

Tony,

Sorry, I gave it a try, but could not find any relevant information about CD 897 on the internet.  Just one page in a pdf of someone other than Foster. 

Maybe a reference to something other? 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

Tony,

Sorry, I gave it a try, but could not find any relevant information about CD 897 on the internet.  Just one page in a pdf of someone other than Foster. 

Maybe a reference to something other? 

[Richard Price]

Here is a link to Foster's testimony with Joseph A. Ball.  https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Foster.pdf

[John Butler]

On 5/28/2021 at 2:36 PM, Tony Krome said:

Tony,

Thanks again.  If what he said was true then that may destroy all of the good work Chris Barstow and I put into looking at what was available in the photographic record about trains north of the railroad bridge. 

I'm not sure I trust Foster's testimony.  Several bad and blurry photos and frames show he was on the northern end of the Triple Underpass above the grass just north of Elm.  Yet, in his testimony he says that he was above the south curb of Elm Street.  Altgens 7 verifies what he said.  Altgens 7 as far as I can determine is a fake.  

He says he was there with either 9 or 10 railroad personnel.  There is at least 5 maybe six, if my memory is right, other frames and photos that show that part of the bridge didn't have anyone on it. 

So, a south bound train instead of a north bound one.  I don't recall, but believe that Officer J. C. White didn't mention a direction in which the train traveled.

I guess I can speculate just for fun that the l train described by Officer White, the long freight train, had two engines, one in the center or other part of the train, and once the assassination was over the trains were decoupled and one partial train went south and another partial train went north.  That would be a quicker way of getting a train that possibly had assassins on it out of Dealey Plaza.

It's the only way I would believe Officer Foster, who first denied the presence of a train, then later admitted one, and said it was south bound.   

[John Butler]

On 5/28/2021 at 4:04 PM, Richard Price said:

Here is a link to Foster's testimony with Joseph A. Ball.  https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Foster.pdf

Richard,

Correct me if I am wrong.  But, I don't think Foster mentioned a train on the tracks in his WC testimony.

Thanks,

[Richard Price]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

Correct me if I am wrong.

John, as the linked testimony shows, he did not mention a train at all (assuming this is his only testimony).  I found no other in my brief search.  The interview following his is for patrolman White and he does mention a passing train.  I think the statement in a posting earlier by Tony Krome is an FBI document possibly as denoted by the (DL 100-1046).  If I remember from another posting this would be how the Dallas FBI office would designate their documents/memorandum.

[John Butler]

15 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

John, as the linked testimony shows, he did not mention a train at all (assuming this is his only testimony).  I found no other in my brief search.  The interview following his is for patrolman White and he does mention a passing train.  I think the statement in a posting earlier by Tony Krome is an FBI document possibly as denoted by the (DL 100-1046).  If I remember from another posting this would be how the Dallas FBI office would designate their documents/memorandum.

Thanks Richard,

I believe I read somewhere and haven't been able to find again, that years later Foster did say there  was a train.  I'll keep looking.

Thanks again

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Richard Price said:

John, as the linked testimony shows, he did not mention a train at all (assuming this is his only testimony).  I found no other in my brief search.  The interview following his is for patrolman White and he does mention a passing train.  I think the statement in a posting earlier by Tony Krome is an FBI document possibly as denoted by the (DL 100-1046).  If I remember from another posting this would be how the Dallas FBI office would designate their documents/memorandum.

Richard, and Tony, this was discussed in another thread 2-3 years ago.   Another poster put up a video of one of the assassination films, which one I don't know.  It was taken from behind the limo as it proceeded down Elm street.  The film had to be taken from near the corner of Elm and Houston as it showed the limo literally descending down the street towards the underpass in relation to the person filming.  They were filming from a few feet above the limo by the time of the shots and afterwards.

In the film the overpass is seen distinctly.  Above it and to the left, over the Main Street/Commerce Street portion of the Railroad overpass movement can be seen for a very few seconds, 4-5-6.  It's blurry.  The poster was convinced this was the train.  Something seemed funny about it.

The blurr's were moving left to right.  I. E. South to North not Southbound as Foster said.  

When you go to full screen with this, watch it repeatedly, pause it and study frames it becomes evident.  The moving blurr's expanded are cars headed northbound on Stemmons Freeway beyond the railroad overpass.  Some are passing others.  In particular a box van can bee seen either passing cars or being passed.

Wish I could remember the thread it was in or the film this was from.  I do remember the rest of this pretty clearly.  Hope it helps. 

[John Butler]

This doesn't exactly show what Ron was talking about.  I believe, if I am recalling correctly, Chris Davidson did a gif showing cars moving on the Stemmons at the north end of the railroad bridge.

This is from the Bell film done by Dunkel.  I do not recall exactly who that was.  This film shows an auto on the Stemmons.  It size is bigger then it should be.  Notice that the other or west side of the railroad bridge is higher then the east side.  The decorative features on the west side are taller then the same features on the east side.  This shouldn't be.  The railroad bridge is about 120 feet across and has a 3 degree slope downward towards the west.

What I am saying is you can't trust the Bell film.  Here is another example:

This film frame from Bell is not exactly Altgens 7.   It varies in showing few, if any people on the bridge as the p. limo approaches the structure.  About 5 other films and photos have something similar to this.  Some even show no people there about 40 seconds after the shooting.  In Bell, just a few frames after the frame above, probably less then a second, people appear there.  

There appears to be things that resemble boxcars, but I am told they are signs west of the bridge.  That whole area seems magnified with that giant machine resembling some kind of Star Wars machine.  The bridge ornamentation suffers from the same size and perspective that the first frame does.  One other thing you might notice.  The horizon line is as flat as a table top.  Texas is generally a flat state for the most part, but that is simply a cut and past error indicating haste in alteration.

So, which parts of the Bell film are edited and which parts are credible? 

Edited May 31, 2021 by John Butler

[Jonathan Cohen]

7 hours ago, John Butler said:

So, which parts of the Bell film are edited and which parts are credible? 

The answer, of course, is that none are edited. As usual, you are imagining things that aren't there and making absurd pronouncements about "cut and paste" errors, boxcars that are actually signs and evil "giant machines" used to magnify the area of the overpass. Stop the madness !!

[Ron Bulman]

17 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Richard, and Tony, this was discussed in another thread 2-3 years ago.   Another poster put up a video of one of the assassination films, which one I don't know.  It was taken from behind the limo as it proceeded down Elm street.  The film had to be taken from near the corner of Elm and Houston as it showed the limo literally descending down the street towards the underpass in relation to the person filming.  They were filming from a few feet above the limo by the time of the shots and afterwards.

In the film the overpass is seen distinctly.  Above it and to the left, over the Main Street/Commerce Street portion of the Railroad overpass movement can be seen for a very few seconds, 4-5-6.  It's blurry.  The poster was convinced this was the train.  Something seemed funny about it.

The blurr's were moving left to right.  I. E. South to North not Southbound as Foster said.  

When you go to full screen with this, watch it repeatedly, pause it and study frames it becomes evident.  The moving blurr's expanded are cars headed northbound on Stemmons Freeway beyond the railroad overpass.  Some are passing others.  In particular a box van can bee seen either passing cars or being passed.

Wish I could remember the thread it was in or the film this was from.  I do remember the rest of this pretty clearly.  Hope it helps. 

You can see what I'm talking about in the Bell  film available on line.  If you go to full screen and start at about 43-44 seconds, focus on the top 1/3-1/4 of the screen.  It's only 3-4 seconds long.  But you can see the top half of a white sedan moving.  If you pause it immediately and look then start it and stop it again immediately it becomes even more evident it's a car heading North on Stemmons freeway.  Looking closely at this multiple times it is also evident there are other vehicles doing he same.  No train moving South.

JFK Assassination - Mark Bell Film - Bing video

This is not the version I was referring to in the unknown thread I mentioned.  The few seconds of film had been isolated and zoomed in to only the top 1/3-1/4 of the frames, and, I believe slowed down and possibly stabilized.  When you took it to full screen things became much clearer - though still grainy.  I still think I remember a box van passing other vehicles / being passed, but no train.

I first noticed this in a video poste by Robin Unger in this thread on June 3, 2019 which is no longer there (see my comment below it).  As noted by Adam Johnson, Chris Davidson in a post above these in a brief clip of another portion of the Bell film has it much clearer and I think stabilized.

Bell Film - Image in between sprockets - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

What I'm thinking of may well have been Chris (excellent) work as well.  But this is not the thread it was in where someone was arguing the vehicles heading North on Stemmons are a southbound train.