A question regarding the RAMBLER

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

According to Boone's affidavit, the "Mauser" was found at 1:22 pm. If both of those times are correct, doesn't sound like the same rifle to me.

 

Gil,

Luke Mooney told the WC that, although he didn't look at his watch, he felt that it was approaching 1:00 PM when he found the shells.

Will Fritz told the WC that he arrived at the TSBD at 12:58 and that "shortly afterwards", somebody told him that they had found some shells.

Somewhere in my notes I have the shell discovery pegged as 1:06 PM.

Steve Thomas

 

[Gil Jesus]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Gil,

Luke Mooney told the WC that, although he didn't look at his watch, he felt that it was approaching 1:00 PM when he found the shells.

Will Fritz told the WC that he arrived at the TSBD at 12:58 and that "shortly afterwards", somebody told him that they had found some shells.

Somewhere in my notes I have the shell discovery pegged as 1:06 PM.

Steve Thomas

 

Thanks, Steve. Talk about coincidence, that was right around the time that Tippit was shot.

[Jamey Flanagan]

If I'm not mistaken, Roger Craig said they were inspecting the Mauser when the call about the Tippit shooting came over their radio. He looked at his watch and it was 1:06 pm.

[Steve Thomas]

 As has been pointed put, the shells were found before the rifle was. The 6.5 caliber shells were photographed, entered into evidence and put into an evidence bag.

You couldn't very well have a 7.65 caliber rifle found to go along with them.

That's why I personally think that somebody screwed up and planted the wrong caliber shells.

Steve Thomas

[Pete Mellor]

On 7/28/2021 at 2:34 PM, Steve Thomas said:

Gil,

It is my belief that the Rambler was owned by Raul Castro, an officer of of Dallas SNFE Chapter of Alpha 66 and who met at the house on Halandale into which Oswald was seen entering and exiting. The driver was Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro.

I explored this on my web page with an article entitled, "Possible Rambler Lead?"

https://myjfksite.weebly.com/

Steve Thomas

Steve, https://myjfksite.weebly.com/  is very interesting, thanks.

Craig has always been one of the more reliable & plausible witnesses for me & his 'light coloured Rambler' testimony, confirmed by other witnesses is solid.  His description of the driver,  He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket..." is also interesting.  We'll never know if it was Oswald, or a look-alike that ran down from the TSBD into the car.  Yet, all the other testimony of Rambler sightings around Dealey Plaza point to some sus involvement in events.

I've long wondered if this Rambler & its occupants had some involvement in Oak Cliff, the Tippit shooting & particularly the dumping of the Eisenhower jacket that was supposedly linked to LHO, that Marina couldn't i.d.  Ed LeDoux posted a good thread on this Forum 'Oswald & the Amazing Technicolour Jacket' back in 2006.  Was the 'thin white-looking jacket' dumped by the Rambler driver (Orcarberro) to frame the patsy?

No solid proof, it's too late for that, but all very interesting.....& more plausible than the WC fiction.

 

[John Butler]

Gil,

One could suspect that things were chaotic at the TSBD with folks remembering different things.  I don't think that is excusable for police detectives and officers who deal with investigations and legal concerns.  Boone's 1:22 pm is not that far from Roger Craig's 1:05 or 1:06 pm.  As outlined earlier their is varying times for the rifle finding.  The difference in the time for the shell finding and the rifle finding varies. 

Most agree that the shells were found before the rifle.  According to Penn Jones, Roger Craig said the rifle was found at 1:05 pm.  With Roger Craig entering the building at about 12:50 pm means that there were minutes between the shell finding and the rifle finding and not an hour or more.

I'll stick with the Police Officer of the Year: 1960.  I think Craig's reporting is the most accurate.  This is based on his not changing his testimony and with others doing just that.

 

   

[John Butler]

Here's another thing of interest from Roger Craig.  He said in When They Kill A President :

"The parking lot behind the picket fence was of little importance to most of the investigators at the scene except that the shots were thought to have come from there.

Let us examine this parking lot. It was leased by Deputy Sheriff B. D. Gossett. He in turn rented parking space by the month to the deputies who worked in the court house, except for official vehicles. I rented one of these spaces from Gossett when I was a dispatcher working days or evenings. I paid Gossett $3.00 per month and was given a key to the lot. An interesting point is that the lot had an iron bar across the only entrance and exit (which were the same). The bar had a chain and lock on it. The only people having access to it were deputies with keys. Point: how did the woman gain access and, what is more important, who was she and why did she have to leave?"

If this is true then anyone entering the parking lot behind the picket fence would need a Sheriff's department official's key.  How did the woman get access?  And, this goes for all the others wandering around that were noticed by various people.  Lee Bowman describes vehicles driving in the parking lot.  Were these officials of the Dallas Sheriff's Office?

I thought Frazier and Oswald parked there?  Are there two parking lot involved behind the TSBD?

Edited July 31, 2021 by John Butler

[Mark Knight]

The parking lot behind the picket fence is in front of, and to the left of, the TSBD. As I understand it, entrance and egress were provided off the Elm Street "extension" that proceeded due west in front of the TSBD.

 

[Larry Hancock]

There was gated access to the paid parking lot to the west of the TSBD on the Elm Street extension. There was also an actual gatekeeper to open the gate in the morning and evenings, I've seen pictures of the swing type gate.  Given that it was normally closed off during the day, Bowers was surprised to see a car driving in the lot at lunchtime.  

It would have been possible to drive across the construction area to the north of the building where there was no street or paved road but you would have been going across dirt by the railroad track once you got beyond the rear, loading dock entrance of the TSBD.   I don't know that it was actually fenced off from the paid parking area, have never seen that discussed that I recall.

Also noteworthy is that there was a special, partially covered area on the west directly adjacent to the building.  Interestingly I've never seen a DPD report saying that are was searched....or that the locked rail car offices on the track across the train yard were actually opened and searched.  You see an officer on top of one of the cars looking across the yard but I've always wondered if the cars were actually searched.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Frazier parked his car roughly 100 yards north of the Texas School Book Depository just off Houston.  He claimed Oswald walked ahead, with his curtain rods tucked under his arm pit and cupped in his palm while Wesley revved his engine to charge a weak battery.  No one saw Oswald enter the building that morning.  From memory of what I've read over the years.

Buell-Wesley-Frazier-Car.jpg (830×633) (bp.blogspot.com)

[John Deignan]

Jack Dougherty said he saw Oswald enter the building that morning.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Dougherty.pdf

[Steve Thomas]

17 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Steve, https://myjfksite.weebly.com/  is very interesting, thanks.

Craig has always been one of the more reliable & plausible witnesses for me & his 'light coloured Rambler' testimony, confirmed by other witnesses is solid.  His description of the driver,  He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket..." is also interesting.  We'll never know if it was Oswald, or a look-alike that ran down from the TSBD into the car.  Was the 'thin white-looking jacket' dumped by the Rambler driver (Orcarberro) to frame the patsy?

 

Pete,

I wish Roger Craig had been asked if the Rambler he saw had bumper stickers on it.

Steve Thomas

[Pete Mellor]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Pete,

I wish Roger Craig had been asked if the Rambler he saw had bumper stickers on it.

Steve Thomas

Sure.  Typical of this case throughout.  In Stone's 'JFK' has Garrison  perusing the WC vols and saying, "Ask the question!"

So many issues left vague, which appeared to be the agenda.

[Ron Bulman]

19 hours ago, John Deignan said:

Jack Dougherty said he saw Oswald enter the building that morning.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Dougherty.pdf

I said it was from memory.  Reading his testimony he is forgettable.  Tap dancing, he appears coached throughout.

Regarding seeing Oswald he said "vaguely", "out of the corner of my eye".  He didn't see anything in his hands.  An interesting read.

[Denis Morissette]

This McIntire photo was taken a few minutes after the shooting by Oswald. We would see Frazier’s car had that tree not be there.