Can We Agree that Allen Dulles was a Ringmaster of the JFKA?

[Jim Hargrove]

6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Jim,

     Here's a quote about Lansdale and Texas from a March 2015 Education Forum post by Steven Gaal.

"Among Lansdale's letters, John Newman and David Lifton found a slip of paper that has "The Texas Hotel" on it and a phone number in Denton. Lansdale's letters also reveal that he was headed in the direction of Dallas in November 1963.91

Lansdale wrote to a number of friends and associates beginning in September 1963, of his intention to go to Texas in November. There are as many as ten letters, according to Newman, where he described this upcoming trip to two people. One was his son. The other one was General "Hangin' Sam" Williams, an old buddy and McGarr's predecessor in Vietnam. He lived in San Antonio.92

The last piece of paper that Newman found placing Lansdale physically in Washington is dated November 14, 1963. It concerns running errands for his wife. After that there is no record of his whereabouts except for a box of incidentals, which had this piece of paper in it. It has on it "Texas Hotel" and "Denton" and a name and phone number. As Newman said, "That might be from 1949 or it might be 1968 and again it might be November 1963. Because the Texas Hotel is where Kennedy stayed the night before he died, and Denton, Texas is just north here of Dallas, it all fits in. "

 

 

Thanks for this, Mr. Niederhut!  Looks like Steven Gaal got the material you quoted from this webpage, which consists of a transcript of a 1992 interview of John Newman by Gus Russo.  The words are Dr. Newman’s (according to the transcript) and so they are probably accurate.

I’m reasonably convinced that this puts the Mongoose man in Dallas the day JFK died.  From Wikipedia’s bio on Lansdale:

From 1957 to 1963, Lansdale worked for the Department of Defense in Washington, serving as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Special Operations, Staff Member of the President's Committee on Military Assistance, and Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations. During the early 1960s, he was chiefly involved in clandestine efforts to topple the government of Cuba, including proposals to assassinate Fidel Castro. Much of this work was under the aegis of "Operation Mongoose", which was the operational name for the CIA plan to topple Castro's government. According to Daniel Ellsberg, who was at one time a subordinate to Lansdale, Lansdale claimed that he was fired by President Kennedy's Defense Secretary Robert McNamara after he declined Kennedy's offer to play a role in the overthrow of the Diem regime.[8]

The whole sordid story of the Mongoose Op puts Lansdale right in the lap of the Agency and its erstwhile (but still active on the day of the hit, I’ll bet) director.  There are lots of pictures of Allen Dulles and Lansdale together.  Megathanks!

[David Andrews]

5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks for this, Mr. Niederhut!  Looks like Steven Gaal got the material you quoted from this webpage, which consists of a transcript of a 1992 interview of John Newman by Gus Russo.  The words are Dr. Newman’s (according to the transcript) and so they are probably accurate.

 

Thanks, Jim.  Very useful talk by Newman and Russo on Lansdale, de Mohrenschildt and Howard Burris, recommended for people researching them.  Features confessing colonels.  Wish it were twice as long.

Edited September 5, 2021 by David Andrews

[Richard Booth]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:05 PM, Richard Booth said:

Regular meetings at Dulles' home, post-firing

It wasn't to discuss the preakness or make their horse bets...

I think this was a sort of mutiny at CIA. Angleton was not about to be ruled over by John McCone. His loyalty was first to the agency itself and to him that was rightfully Allen Dulles' organization, and his own. Angleton continued to view Dulles as his superior and Dulles continued to receive briefings on everything, from Angleton, inside his home. Angleton had access to EVERYTHING in his position as head of CI/SIG.

I think Angleton was the brain of the entire thing. Angleton alone wouldn't have been able to sell an operation like this to others, but if others knew that it had Dulles' blessing and he was behind it, they would probably be far more inclined to participate. 

Angleton knew where all the bodies were buried, he knew all of the operational capabilities they had, who could be trusted, who couldn't be, what assets to use, what not to use, and how to manipulate the system. Dulles had the social skills and connections. Together, they could have mapped the entire thing out. 

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

I think this was a sort of mutiny at CIA. Angleton was not about to be ruled over by John McCone. His loyalty was first to the agency itself and to him that was rightfully Allen Dulles' organization, and his own. Angleton continued to view Dulles as his superior and Dulles continued to receive briefings on everything, from Angleton, inside his home. Angleton had access to EVERYTHING in his position as head of CI/SIG.

I think Angleton was the brain of the entire thing. Angleton alone wouldn't have been able to sell an operation like this to others, but if others knew that it had Dulles' blessing and he was behind it, they would probably be far more inclined to participate. 

Angleton knew where all the bodies were buried, he knew all of the operational capabilities they had, who could be trusted, who couldn't be, what assets to use, what not to use, and how to manipulate the system. Dulles had the social skills and connections. Together, they could have mapped the entire thing out. 

They did I think.  Angleton held the Oswald file close to his vest so to speak throughout and beyond.  From what I've read.

[Pete Mellor]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

They did I think.  Angleton held the Oswald file close to his vest so to speak throughout and beyond.  From what I've read.

Yeah, & didn't Helms state that many pages in the Oswald file were destroyed right after the assassination.

[Adam Johnson]

So, its almost 30 years later, what did these guys end up publishing in their books regarding the two colonel's? One of whom confessed to two people he was involved in JFK's assassination. Did we ever find out how?

What else came out about Burris?

[Richard Booth]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

They did I think.  Angleton held the Oswald file close to his vest so to speak throughout and beyond.  From what I've read.

Absolutely right. There exists very good work on the Oswald file on Kennedy's and King, which does show I think beyond any doubt that Angleton manipulated the routing of documents for that file and handled it in a special way. That is a red flag. 

We also have Angleton reacting strongly to the atmosphere in the mid 70s where the CIA was suspected of involvement in the assassination, with high level interest from Congressional committees. What Angleton chose to do there was very interesting and also a red flag. He basically hangs E. Howard Hunt out to dry to save himself. He fabricated a document implicating Hunt and then Angleton's mark, Joe Trento, accepts it as real. Then Angleton has an asset/friend, William Corson, independently "confirm" that the document is real.  

Angleton's behavior when Win Scott died is also a red flag. 

While we do not have outright proof that Angleton was behind it I think we have enough to classify him as the primary suspect. There are enough red flags here that it is obvious to me he was involved.

 

[David Andrews]

8 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

So, its almost 30 years later, what did these guys end up publishing in their books regarding the two colonel's? One of whom confessed to two people he was involved in JFK's assassination. Did we ever find out how?

What else came out about Burris?

Unfortunately, Gus Russo produced the 1998 lone-nutter tome Live By the Sword, which depends on Priscilla McMillan's work in its portrayal of Oswald as malcontent.  I'm reading it now; I'll report back if anything discussed in the 1992 John Newman presentation made it in.

Edited September 6, 2021 by David Andrews

[Ron Bulman]

Dulles going back to George De Mohrenschild's dad in Russia in the early 1920's was mind blowing to me.  A key previously unknown piece in the Devil's Chessboard. 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:51 PM, Richard Booth said:

I think Angleton was the brain of the entire thing. Angleton alone wouldn't have been able to sell an operation like this to others, but if others knew that it had Dulles' blessing and he was behind it, they would probably be far more inclined to participate. 

Angleton knew where all the bodies were buried, he knew all of the operational capabilities they had, who could be trusted, who couldn't be, what assets to use, what not to use, and how to manipulate the system. Dulles had the social skills and connections. Together, they could have mapped the entire thing out. 

Mr. Booth,

That seems entirely possible, but I’m more inclined to believe David Phillips planned the details for the whole enchilada, with Angleton certainly involved.  Phillips (via Hunt) probably set up the New Orleans commie sheep-dipping of the patsy-to-be, utilizing Banister and Ferrie.  I do think Dulles & Company would not have moved forward unless at least a few military men were in on it, and Lansdale seems a more and more likely candidate.

[Richard Booth]

7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Booth,

That seems entirely possible, but I’m more inclined to believe David Phillips planned the details for the whole enchilada, with Angleton certainly involved.  Phillips (via Hunt) probably set up the New Orleans commie sheep-dipping of the patsy-to-be, utilizing Banister and Ferrie.  I do think Dulles & Company would not have moved forward unless at least a few military men were in on it, and Lansdale seems a more and more likely candidate.

And who would have spotted and recruited Mr. Phillips? 

Angleton. He planted the "virus" to ensure post-assassination cover-up and I think surely he picked who would head up the operational compartments. Phillips was a perfect choice: proven track record of victory (PB/SUCCESS) and known hatred for John Kennedy. 

Ultimately I pretty much agree with what you wrote here. I just put Angleton up near the top in the hierarchy. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Richard Booth

[Benjamin Cole]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:56 AM, Richard Booth said:

And who would have spotted and recruited Mr. Phillips? 

Angleton. He planted the "virus" to ensure post-assassination cover-up and I think surely he picked who would head up the operational compartments. Phillips was a perfect choice: proven track record of victory (PB/SUCCESS) and known hatred for John Kennedy. 

Ultimately I pretty much agree with what you wrote here. I just put Angleton up near the top in the hierarchy. 

OK, this is speculation, but here goes: 

DA Phillips concocts a false-flag but failed assassination attempt plan on the JFK, to be blamed on the leftie-loner-loser-commie LHO. 

Phillips cannot just do this, but needs tacit approval, unwritten etc., from above. He gets it. 

But then Angleton, or someone, plants a couple of very angry guys (Cubans) on Phillips false-flag team. Maybe even with no instructions, but a sense of what might happen. 

Ergo, LHO cooperates, expects to escape Dealey Plaza with help, but figures out JFK was shot for real and he is the de facto patsy, and goes AWOL. 

Even Phillips does not know what really happened. 

Maybe only the two guys know what really happened at the JFKA.

The CIA concludes they have to eliminate LHO, but need plausible deniability, and hire the Mob. The CIA then spends decades scrubbing records and inventing false narratives, and, btw, destroying Garrison. Wrecking Richard Sprague, etc. 

That's my story I am sticking with it. 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

OK, this is speculation, but here goes: 

DA Phillips concocts a false-flag but failed assassination attempt plan on the JFK, to be blamed on the leftie-loner-loser-commie LHO. 

Phillips cannot just do this, but needs tacit approval, unwritten etc., from above. He gets it. 

But then Angleton, or someone, plants a couple of very angry guys (Cubans) on Phillips false-flag team. Maybe even with no instructions, but a sense of what might happen. 

Ergo, LHO cooperates, expects to escape Dealey Plaza with help, but figures out JFK was shot for real and he is the de facto patsy, and goes AWOL. 

Even Phillips does not know what really happened. 

Maybe only the two guys know what really happened at the JFKA.

The CIA concludes they have to eliminate LHO, but need plausible deniability, and hire the Mob. The CIA then spends decades scrubbing records and inventing false narratives, and, btw, destroying Garrison. Wrecking Richard Sprague, etc. 

That's my story I am sticking with it. 

 

 

 

How do you explain the pre-arranged, skillfully orchestrated psy op throughout the U.S. and international media that was launched on 11/22/63-- before Oswald was ever charged with a crime?

The deployment of fake Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza, and confiscation of cameras?

The confiscation and scrubbing of evidence-- including JFK's body and the limo?

Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson's purchase and sequestration of the Zapruder film?

The role of known CIA asset and Dallas mayor Earl Cabell in the motorcade and post-assassination public relations?

Aside from the details of the hit, the assassination was, obviously, a complex psy op, orchestrated on a very high level by people involved with the mainstream media.

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Aside from the details of the hit, the assassination was, obviously, a complex psy op, orchestrated on a very high level by people involved with the mainstream media.

From what I understand these folks at the CIA had prior experience in Latin or Central America and the Philippines in arranging assassinations of political leaders.  Johnson said they had a Murder, Inc. group in the Caribbean.  The Zapruder film is the best example of their pys op programs at the time.  For how many decades did the Zapruder film with the help of the media control and direct the narrative?  It would be brought out in the 70's when folks begin to doubt the JFKA in a serious way.  People are less willing to believe what they see in the film than in prior times mainly due to technology available to anyone.

The planners of the JFKA had a plan and a notion they might have to change the elements of the plan according to what happened during he assassination.  This we can see in about an hour or perhaps a hour and a half after the assassination.  I have surveyed all of the witness statements in Dealey Plaza and believe I can detect a difference in the way they were being written shortly after the assassination that afternoon.     

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

How do you explain the pre-arranged, skillfully orchestrated psy op throughout the U.S. and international media that was launched on 11/22/63-- before Oswald was ever charged with a crime?

The deployment of fake Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza, and confiscation of cameras?

The confiscation and scrubbing of evidence-- including JFK's body and the limo?

Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson's purchase and sequestration of the Zapruder film?

The role of known CIA asset and Dallas mayor Earl Cabell in the motorcade and post-assassination public relations?

Aside from the details of the hit, the assassination was, obviously, a complex psy op, orchestrated on a very high level by people involved with the mainstream media.

W-

 

I handle most of your q's in 

 

 

Verily, a great deal of complicity after the fact---Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact-1967 still holds a lot of water. That's how obvious the post-JFKA cover-up was. 

Larry Hancock suggests the reason the post-JFKA cover-up was so obvious, mangled and crude is that there was, in fact, not much in the way of pre-JFKA planning. I defer to Hancock as a default position. 

That said, my take (different perhaps from Hancock's) is LHO was being run by the CIA, and they planned to use a witting LHO in a false-flag fake JFK assassination attempt. Ergo, the biography build on LHO.  

Cuban exiles piggybacked on the false-flag op, and made it real. 

Yes, the WC was a cover-up, and much that the CIA has done since in media, etc. The FBI destroyed and manufactured evidence (CE 399).  

This cover-up has allowed a mythology to build, that the JFKA itself must have been a very sophisticated operation. But a true and dreadnought investigation starting on Nov. 22 might have cracked the case within a few days. 

If LHO had lived, he might eventually have spilled the beans.  

As a basic premise, my take is that successful conspiracies, especially on the supremely explosive topic of assassinating a US president, require fewer, rather than many, participants. 

The versions of the JFKA requiring dozens of malicious and witting participants, high and low across many organization lines....well, for me, they just don't hold water. 

Think small!