IF JACK RUBY'S GUT SHOT INTO OSWALD MISSED! ???

[Joe Bauer]

I think it would be extremely interesting and thought provoking to read our member's shared speculations regarding such a scenario.

I think the feds may have taken over Oswald's security after such a near miss incident.

I also think the Dallas FBI would have freaked out. They didn't destroy Oswald's file just to clear space in their storage cabinets.

LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover and others might have had heart attacks.

 

[Denny Zartman]

I believe he would have been found dead in his cell the next day. "Suicide."

There was no way they were going to ever let him talk.

[John Butler]

21 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I think the feds may have taken over Oswald's security after such a near miss incident.

And, made sure he did not talk and died one way or another.  Or, held incommunicado in prison.  Or, was placed in a mental institution and fed pyschotropic drugs until his brain was destroyed.  Or, given a cancer treatment a la Jack Ruby.

[Greg Doudna]

It would have been Oswald, amplified by any attorneys, saying various forms of "I was framed" and the prosecution painting him as a nutcase? If some further attempt on his life did not get to him or his sanity?

If Oswald claimed he had been working for an agency in some relationship and came across with credibility on that, the usual response would be for the agency to claim that the working relationship had been cancelled some brief time before the event in question, in this case the assassination, such that the position would be he was acting rogue or alone.

Interesting question though.

[Joe Bauer]

 

The Lee Harvey Oswald file papers James Hosty was ordered to "get rid of" might not have been destroyed so easily and quickly.

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I think it would be extremely interesting and thought provoking to read our member's shared speculations regarding such a scenario.

I think the feds may have taken over Oswald's security after such a near miss incident.

I also think the Dallas FBI would have freaked out. They didn't destroy Oswald's file just to clear space in their storage cabinets.

LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover and others might have had heart attacks.

 

Firstly, he’d have been given a lawyer that was aiding the prosecution and the misinformation on him, like Sirhan was. Jolly West (or someone similar) would have been assigned to him for a psychological evaluation, in the aftermath he’d have gone suddenly mad. Or, would have been found hanged, despite no signs of him feeling suicidal. 
Ordinarily, I’d say I sound cynical, not in this case. 
 

PS enough time with Jolly and he’d have signed a full confession anyway. 

[David Andrews]

Does it seem like Ruby had plugged a guy at close range before?  Practice, practice.

[Joe Bauer]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:00 PM, David Andrews said:

Does it seem like Ruby had plugged a guy at close range before?  Practice, practice.

David, after viewing 1,000 times the video clip of Ruby shooting Oswald the last 59 years, I have also come to a point of considering the actual physical feat of his doing so as quite remarkable in several ways.

It was skillfully timing, location and action choreographed.

First, Ruby had to get past the street guards and down the ramp and into the press crowd in a hurry and at just the right time before Oswald was brought out towards it. 

Then, once there, he had to keep kind of stealthily hidden behind others in the press crowd for at least a couple or more minutes before and up to Oswald's hallway perp walk.

Ruby knew he could be instantly recognized by Dallas PD officers like Patrick Dean and others if he pushed himself to the front of the press line too early.

He then had to coordinate his front of the line push not only within a two or three second window of Oswald's closeness, but also to a perfect front of the press line location position to be able to reach Oswald unimpeded with just a quick thrust and a few bounding steps. 

Ruby then had to skillfully and strongly bound out to get his body and gun holding arm and hand to a "can't miss" close up position ( within inches ) of Oswald's gut and then get his shot off before he and his arm and hand were grabbed by officers.

Successfully doing so was, again, a fairly impressive physical feat.

The front of the press line position Ruby garnered was just too perfect  in giving him unfettered 3 step access to a frontal wide open Oswald  imo. An Oswald that was walked right to him.

And was it just fatefully fortuitous for Ruby that Oswald was so frontally wide open for his thrust and shot? Or, purposely so?

Presenting Oswald with just two guards at his side instead of an extra two in front and two more in back of him as he was brought to just feet next to this poorly watched and checked press crowd was the final break Ruby needed to get to Oswald's wide open gut and blast away.

I often wondered what the Oswald jail transfer plan write off people like Curry and Fritz said to themselves when the absolute worst case Oswald security failure scenario played out right in front of them and right inside their own building?

And this after JFK's worst case death causing security failure in their city just two days before?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Michael Crane]

Ruby is lucky that his shot hit vital organs & was enough to kill Oswald.I wonder if his bullets contained poisons or some other substance to aid the dying process?

[Joe Bauer]

MC.

Notice also how long it took to get an ambulance down into the basement for Oswald?

Oswald's massive internal bleeding body had been carried back down the corridor and into an adjoining room. Then it was carried back into and down that corridor again and finally lifted into the ambulance. Oswald looked totally lifeless by that point.

How many minutes did it take from the second Oswald was shot to the point of his Parkland admittance and beginning surgery?

You can't stop that kind of internal bleeding without immediate surgery and blood infusions.

Oswald didn't have a chance.

Ruby's ability to get his gun within inches of Oswald's midsection ( even when Oswald had 2 guards by his side ) is the key here.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[David Andrews]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:37 AM, Joe Bauer said:

David, after viewing 1,000 times the video clip of Ruby shooting Oswald the last 59 years, I have also come to a point of considering the actual physical feat of his doing so as quite remarkable in several ways.

It was skillfully timing, location and action choreographed.

First, Ruby had to get past the street guards and down the ramp and into the press crowd in a hurry and at just the right time before Oswald was brought out towards it. 

Then, once there, he had to keep kind of stealthily hidden behind others in the press crowd for at least a couple or more minutes before and up to Oswald's hallway perp walk.

Ruby knew he could be instantly recognized by Dallas PD officers like Patrick Dean and others if he pushed himself to the front of the press line too early.

He then had to coordinate his front of the line push not only within a two or three second window of Oswald's closeness, but also to a perfect front of the press line location position to be able to reach Oswald unimpeded with just a quick thrust and a few bounding steps. 

Ruby then had to skillfully and strongly bound out to get his body and gun holding arm and hand to a "can't miss" close up position ( within inches ) of Oswald's gut and then get his shot off before he and his arm and hand were grabbed by officers.

Successfully doing so was, again, a fairly impressive physical feat.

The front of the press line position Ruby garnered was just too perfect  in giving him unfettered 3 step access to a frontal wide open Oswald  imo. An Oswald that was walked right to him.

And was it just fatefully fortuitous for Ruby that Oswald was so frontally wide open for his thrust and shot? Or, purposely so?

Presenting Oswald with just two guards at his side instead of an extra two in front and two more in back of him as he was brought to just feet next to this poorly watched and checked press crowd was the final break Ruby needed to get to Oswald's wide open gut and blast away.

I often wondered what the Oswald jail transfer plan write off people like Curry and Fritz said to themselves when the absolute worst case Oswald security failure scenario played out right in front of them and right inside their own building?

And this after JFK's worst case death causing security failure in their city just two days before?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, of course, Joe.  But Sparky still looks like it's not his first rodeo.

[James DiEugenio]

JB: First, Ruby had to get past the street guards and down the ramp 

There is no way on God's green earth that Jack Ruby came down that Main Street ramp that day.

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

JB: First, Ruby had to get past the street guards and down the ramp 

There is no way on God's green earth that Jack Ruby came down that Main Street ramp that day.

 

 

 

AGREE 100%.

And if one of Ruby's closest night club drop-in DPD buddies for years William "Blackie" Harrison ( who was actually in the press crowd supposedly for close up surveillance purposes ) had just once looked around or in back of himself instead of staring straight at Oswald as Oswald was being walked down the corridor he would have seen Ruby. Ruby was mere feet or even inches behind Harrison in those seconds before Ruby shot to the front of the press line.

And didn't Harrison himself go to the outer back door entrance area to use the cigar/cigarette dispensing machine to get a pack of his trademark stogies sometime before returning to the press crowd in the basement loading ramp area?

Somebody had to unlock the exit/entrance doors down there for Ruby ... yes?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Norman T. Field]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:00 PM, David Andrews said:

Does it seem like Ruby had plugged a guy at close range before?  Practice, practice.

Jacob Rubenstein had been a member of the Chicago West side crew of Jewish gangsters who is said to have killed a cop before he departed Chicago for a warmer climate. 

[Jamey Flanagan]

Well, David Lifton is saying that in his long awaited book Final Charade, that there was a doctor at Parkland who was in on it and there to make sure Oswald didn't survive. I can buy that although I'd have to see some hard evidence of that. That would be smart. Just in case. And you have the guy there in the ambulance who reportedly performed CPR on Oswald even though you aren't supposed to do that with that type of gunshot wound, or so I've read. That guy might have been instructed to do that to help try and ensure his death. And if I'm not mistaken didn't they move Oswald back inside the police station and bring him back out when the ambulance came instead of leaving him there until the ambulance came? I know many times emergency personnel will tell someone calling to report an accident or injury will tell them not to move the victim.