Fletcher Prouty vs the ARRB

[James DiEugenio]

 This is  a really good example of the work at Kennedys and King.com, and which could only be done there. 

I have said it before and I will say it again: Malcolm Blunt is the best pure archival researcher that there is right now.  And he is the one who supplied the original info for this important piece, and it was supplemented by Horne, Palamara and Len Osanic.  It indicates a side to the ARRB that went relatively unnoticed: the need to retaliate against JFK and what it represented.This charade with Prouty was probably the most salient example of that.  Thanks to all of these people for their help.  I will not specifically name those who were all too eager to fall  for this faux pas. They know who they are.

I will just say that the  record now stands corrected.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/fletcher-prouty-vs-the-arrb

[W. Niederhut]

Wow.  Quite a vindication of Prouty.

I always thought the man was a straight shooter.

Time for the Prouty defamers to eat some serious crow.

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Vince Palamara]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

 This is  a really good example of the work at Kennedys and King.com, and which could only be done there. 

I have said it before and I will say it again: Malcolm Blunt is the best pure archival researcher that there is right now.  And he is the one who supplied the original info for this important piece, and it was supplemented by Horne, Palamara and Len Osanic.  It indicates a side to the ARRB that went relatively unnoticed: the need to retaliate against JFK and what it represented.This charade with Prouty was probably the most salient example of that.  Thanks to all of these people for their help.  I will not specifically name those who were all too eager to fall  for this faux pas. They know who they are.

I will just say that the  record now stands corrected.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/fletcher-prouty-vs-the-arrb

Fantastic article, Jim! I am honored to have helped.

One thing caught my eye, among others: 

"...investigator Dave Montague got in contact with former Lt. Stephen Weiss, who was with that detachment in 1963 but was now retired. He told Montague that Colonel Robert Jones had requested they get in contact with the Secret Service and offer them supplementary protection for President Kennedy in Dallas. Weiss was surprised that the Secret Service declined. He said the word was that a man, who’s name phonetically sounded like [Forrest] Sorrels, declined the offer. (ARRB memo, p. 1) [emphasis added]."

From my book Honest Answers, pages 132-133 :

"Published for the first time ever, these disturbing comments about the Special Agent in Charge of the Dallas Secret Service office, Forrest Sorrels, who rode in the lead car, the vehicle directly in front of Kennedy’s limousine on 11/22/63 and who helped plan the motorcade route. The FBI got a call on 11/27/1963 from a woman who had heard a recent speech by Forrest Sorrels at her Lady’s Club.  She told the FBI that Sorrels was “anti-government, against the Kennedy administration, and she felt his position was against the security of not only the President but the United States." [reprint of actual doc in the book]

"In light of this disturbing report about Sorrels, the following report, also published for the first time ever, is also troubling- Sorrels told the FBI on 11/20/63 that he did not anticipate any trouble for the upcoming trip to Dallas and did not take up the FBI’s offer of assistance." [reprint of actual doc in the book]

From page 160:

"Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels inexplicably told the FBI (agent Alfred D. Neeley, to be exact) the following: Mr. Forrest V. Sorrels … advised that he was at the Parkland Memorial Hospital when President Kennedy was brought to the hospital and said that he remained there until his body was taken to Love Field. Mr. Sorrels stated that there were no photographs taken of President Kennedy at the Parkland Hospital. He stated there were no photographs taken of him as he was being taken into the Parkland Hospital on a stretcher. [Emphasis added] (2/27/64 FBI interview (CD 735, page 12); see also Murder From Within by Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams (2011 edition), page 144)

Sorrels made this bizarre statement, yet there is seemingly no question that he went back to Dealey Plaza soon after arriving at Parkland Hospital. (7 H 332-360 and 13 H 55-83: testimony; 7 H 592: affidavit) Indeed, Sorrels also told the HSCA: He believed the President was dead before he arrived at the hospital. After arriving at Parkland Hospital, he decided that he could be of more help back at the scene of the shooting." (3/15/78 interview with the HSCA (RIF#180-10074-10392).

----------

There's a little more to Sorrels, but this says a lot.

[Ron Bulman]

I've wondered before if John McAdams might have been placed originally to target Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chief of Staff under President John F. Kennedy, L. Fletcher Prouty.  

[Larry Hancock]

Since Jim refers to me in his article, I will comment that anyone seriously interested in questions regarding the 112th  and its activities in regard to Dallas should go to the effort of obtaining all the material collected by the ARRB in regard to the unit, including interviews with its members in Dallas as to their activities, and the interviews with other personnel at the unit's headquarters.   Combine that with a read of the full ARRB interview with Prouty (which he voluntarily offered).  

Some of that material is available online, I published dozens and dozens of pages of it on CD many years ago to try to get it into broader circulation after I had gotten it the hard way from NARA.

I would suggest that you also consider the internal ARRB memoranda (which were/are available) discussing their interview with Fletcher Prouty after the fact as well as their interviews and related documents pertaining to Jones' own testimony and the internal contradictions that occur with it (including his communications with the DPD on November 22).  

In other words, do the work, get the full suite of related documents relating to the 112th and draw your own conclusions. 

For reference, you can also find the my thoughts on the 112th MIG and its activities related to Dallas at the following link:

https://gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/mysteries-of-the-112.pdf

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Larry Hancock

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for all that VInce.

Wow, is that interesting.  Sorrels was really a bad guy.  Even worse than I thought.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Vince Palamara]

Definitely!

[Joe Bauer]

Heady stuff.

So, the 112th had a dozen or more men in Dallas during the motorcade?

Simple question to Powell - were any of them assigned to Dealey Plaza?

Army intelligence had been watching and investigating Lee Oswald throughout Oswald's time in New Orleans?

No sharing of their Oswald concerns with the DPD and FBI leading up to and including the morning of 11,22,1963?

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

Joe:

An interesting point I did not get into is this: the Reed Photos.

If there was no authorization, then where do those pictures come from?

Charles P did some really good work on those on this site.

I was originally going to include them in my article, but I decided to narrow the focus.

Edited June 5, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Larry Hancock]

FBI and Reed slides...from original post here by Joe Backes  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=111185#relPageId=84&search=Stuart_Reed

 

[James DiEugenio]

Utterly fascinating.

And, as far as I know, Reed was never questioned by anyone.

[Sandy Larsen]

Hey, wait a minute! I thought the ARRB was on our side. Was it just another HSCA, pretending to be looking for the truth?

And what did it have against the movie JFK? And Prouty?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Just now, Sandy Larsen said:

And what did it have against the movie JFK?

 

Jeez... the movie JFK spawned the ARRB for heaven's sake!

 

[Paul Brancato]

On 6/4/2022 at 7:37 PM, Larry Hancock said:

Since Jim refers to me in his article, I will comment that anyone seriously interested in questions regarding the 112th  and its activities in regard to Dallas should go to the effort of obtaining all the material collected by the ARRB in regard to the unit, including interviews with its members in Dallas as to their activities, and the interviews with other personnel at the unit's headquarters.   Combine that with a read of the full ARRB interview with Prouty (which he voluntarily offered).  

Some of that material is available online, I published dozens and dozens of pages of it on CD many years ago to try to get it into broader circulation after I had gotten it the hard way from NARA.

I would suggest that you also consider the internal ARRB memoranda (which were/are available) discussing their interview with Fletcher Prouty after the fact as well as their interviews and related documents pertaining to Jones' own testimony and the internal contradictions that occur with it (including his communications with the DPD on November 22).  

In other words, do the work, get the full suite of related documents relating to the 112th and draw your own conclusions. 

For reference, you can also find the my thoughts on the 112th MIG and its activities related to Dallas at the following link:

https://gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/mysteries-of-the-112.pdf

 

Hi Larry - after working through your link again I find myself with more questions than answers. As you may recall Steve Thomas and I dug up some of Colonel Jones’s history, and that his appt to the 112th was later in 1963, as he is still listed as being stationed in Germany in 1963. Jones was a troubling witness, and his superiors never testified to either the WC or the HSCA. It’s such a red flag for me that he lied about his official status and duties with the 112th. Leaving a big question mark isn’t enough. Do you draw any conclusions from this bizarre and misleading testimony? I would say that Military Intelligence generally did their best to obscure the truth. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Paul Brancato

[Rob Clark]

On 6/4/2022 at 4:58 PM, James DiEugenio said:

 It indicates a side to the ARRB that went relatively unnoticed: the need to retaliate against JFK and what it represented. This charade with Prouty was probably the most salient example of that.  Thanks to all of these people for their help.  I will not specifically name those who were all too eager to fall  for this faux pas. They know who they are.

I will just say that the  record now stands corrected.

Not so fast...from one of the eager beavers here.   *IF* this article Jim, was meant to be a rebuttal to our respective podcasts, then it struck out on many levels. The only thing addressed in the article was the 112th MIG, so you have 3rd hand hearsay...and a guy who's name phonetically sounds like Sorrels declined the offer of supplemental protection in Dallas. It seems to me the proper protocol would be the Secret Service would ask for help, not the other way around. It speaks volumes that you ignore what Larry Hancock so thoughtfully said in this thread, research is not picking and choosing what you want to fit your narrative, its deep diving and doing all the necessary work.

 

On 6/4/2022 at 6:18 PM, Vince Palamara said:

"...investigator Dave Montague got in contact with former Lt. Stephen Weiss, who was with that detachment in 1963 but was now retired. He told Montague that Colonel Robert Jones had requested they get in contact with the Secret Service and offer them supplementary protection for President Kennedy in Dallas. Weiss was surprised that the Secret Service declined. He said the word was that a man, who’s name phonetically sounded like [Forrest] Sorrels, declined the offer. (ARRB memo, p. 1) [emphasis added]."

You conveniently leave out Col. Reich's testimony to the ARRB because it doesn't fit your narrative, along with EVERYTHING Prouty backtracked and played down to the ARRB. The ARRB was NOT an investigative body, so you can't equate it to the Warren Commision or the HSCA. They were document collecting, seeing if Prouty had anything at all to offer because of all the claims he made over the years in his essays, books, forewords, and to Oliver Stone, and the last being the catalyst for the ARRB to be conceived from? You say Len has all these documents? So he purposely lied to the ARRB and purposefully withheld documents from them too??  "Just told them what they wanted to hear" is the lamest rationalization/excuse I've ever heard. He lied to them BECAUSE he told us (researchers) the truth?? Seriously, you expect people to buy that??