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A Statement Regarding the Future of the Forum


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Gil,

I hope you are not suggesting I insulted you.

If I have I do apologise.

The point I raised was the importance of John Simkin's heritage. For example the breadth of the EF.

It was not my intention to suggest you were not interested in that?

James

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23 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

I hope the powers to be will consider making the forum a "pay to post" format. I don't think it's fair to ask people to cough up money for the priviledge of being insulted by "freebies" who claim they can't afford it. The alternative would be to move the forum to a free forum carrier, like https://www.proboards.com/ .

I post on some other free forum carriers and they work fine, but you will loose the history cache on this one (wich is one of the key-problems).

About insults, happens on every type of forum... BUT that's why ANY forum should have a good moderator to keep things under control, in this forum I have seen it going wrong a number of times, it's really up to the moderator to take measures.  It's like running a company, you need a boss...  Even on a pay-forum it will go wrong, nothing to do with freebies imo.  A good moderator is needed in both forms

Edited by Jean Paul Ceulemans
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I would, no matter what and in the future, review the current contract. I still find this contract rather expensive and insecure.
1) An entity on a tight budget looses all control in not knowing how much will be charged each month.  I mean, in this contract it's either 70 or 120 their going to take, and there is nothing we can do about it....  One can only budget the WCS (120) and hope for the best ?   No good to me...


Invision have been in touch about purchasing Creator. As I recollect it is a cheaper option. It is a single yearly cost and we would only pay $1068.  What is not clear is whether internet usage by members still applies. The two prices that have affected us is the 100 users per two days for which we are charged $ 70 per month or next stage which involves us $120 per month. And there are higher rates. Because our membership has reduced I am not convinced increased internet usage will affect our monthly costs.

Jean Paul Ceulemans said
2) There is the user limit on posting media.  There are ways around that, MOST other forums don't do it like this, they prefer doing it by using Postimages or another service alike.  Yes, I agree, that will take a little more time posting a picture (10 seconds max....), but you do not have to worry about maxima... It seems THIS forum doesn't allow it in it's current form, I have tried it, but it doesn't work, I'll do some more testing because it is strange, could be I'm doing something wrong ! 


I’ll look into that and see if it can be further increased.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

I post on some other free forum carriers and they work find, but you will loose the history cache on this one (wich is one of the key-problems).

About insults, happens on every type of forum... BUT that's why ANY forum should have a good moderator to keep things under control, in this forum I have seen it going wrong a number of times, it's really up to the moderator to take measures.  It's like running a company, you need a boss...  Even on a pay-forum it will go wrong, nothing to do with freebies imo.  A good moderator is needed in both forms

If the forum is not "pay-to-post", there's no benefit to paying. If you offer someone a service and give them the choice of paying or not paying, what do you think they're going to choose ?  In an open posting format, what benefit would the paying member have that the non-paying member would not have ? What incentive do you have to draw new members to the forum ? "Pay-to-post" does that. It offers the paying members the benefit of posting and at the same time eliminates those "members" whose purpose here is only to disrupt, insult and cause chaos.

Only the serious researchers will pay up.

And the "guests" will still be able to read for free.

I get the tradition and the John Simkin legacy thing. That comes from the hearts of well-intentioned people. I get that. But this is about whether or not this forum will exist three weeks from now. This isn't about heritage, this is about survival.

This forum can no longer survive with one person ( first John, then Jim ) taking the burden of the costs alone, nor should we expect him to. That's not fair.

I agree with you that it has to be run like a business, but in order for a business to be successful, it has to have capital. And to ask certain members to pay while excusing others, with no benefit offered to the payer, IMO, just doesn't seem fair either.

That's my two cents worth.

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51 minutes ago, James R Gordon said:

Gil,

I hope you are not suggesting I insulted you.

If I have I do apologise.

The point I raised was the importance of John Simkin's heritage. For example the breadth of the EF.

It was not my intention to suggest you were not interested in that?

James

No not at all, I was talking about the lone nutters. I doubt they'd stick around if they had to pay. That tells you something about their commitment.

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49 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

If the forum is not "pay-to-post", there's no benefit to paying. If you offer someone a service and give them the choice of paying or not paying, what do you think they're going to choose ?  In an open posting format, what benefit would the paying member have that the non-paying member would not have ? What incentive do you have to draw new members to the forum ? "Pay-to-post" does that. It offers the paying members the benefit of posting and at the same time eliminates those "members" whose purpose here is only to disrupt, insult and cause chaos.

Only the serious researchers will pay up.

And the "guests" will still be able to read for free.

I get the tradition and the John Simkin legacy thing. That comes from the hearts of well-intentioned people. I get that. But this is about whether or not this forum will exist three weeks from now. This isn't about heritage, this is about survival.

This forum can no longer survive with one person ( first John, then Jim ) taking the burden of the costs alone, nor should we expect him to. That's not fair.

I agree with you that it has to be run like a business, but in order for a business to be successful, it has to have capital. And to ask certain members to pay while excusing others, with no benefit offered to the payer, IMO, just doesn't seem fair either.

That's my two cents worth.

The problem is, when you are charging people and offer them something for it, you are in a business (let it be a non-profit one), and that's a lot more to keep an eye on (forms and files, bookkeeping, taxes,....).   I think that's what Cory Santos was aiming at.

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Well, hindsight is perfect, but limiting new members in recent years did dry up the pool. 

It would be nice if all members made new members and each other feel welcome, with friendly commentary.

It's OK to disagree, but first acknowledge that the other person put some effort into their presentation, has a different point of view, but is probably earnest in their sentiments. 

Maybe, if we encourage membership and treat each other civilly, we can grow membership, thus diluting costs per member. 

Another problem is the JFKA is receding into history. Worth pondering is if the forum should also place an emphasis on the Deep State in modern context.

We apply the lessons of the JFKA, and media coverage, to current events. 

I plan a post soon on parallels between the 1/6 committee and the WC. Unfortunately, though I plan the presentation as an instruction on the nature and format of state investigations...well, there will be a lot of hostile commentary. 

That's my two cents, and nothing but appreciation in this corner for all of you. 

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I know it’s crass and would spoil the near perfect format here, but could advertising provide extra income? 
 

…and everyone who has donated can have a little gold crown above their avatar head to signify they are JFK assassination research education forum royalty 🤴 

LNers get a jesters head

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3 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

If the forum is not "pay-to-post", there's no benefit to paying. If you offer someone a service and give them the choice of paying or not paying, what do you think they're going to choose ?  In an open posting format, what benefit would the paying member have that the non-paying member would not have ? What incentive do you have to draw new members to the forum ? "Pay-to-post" does that. It offers the paying members the benefit of posting and at the same time eliminates those "members" whose purpose here is only to disrupt, insult and cause chaos.

Only the serious researchers will pay up.

And the "guests" will still be able to read for free.

I get the tradition and the John Simkin legacy thing. That comes from the hearts of well-intentioned people. I get that. But this is about whether or not this forum will exist three weeks from now. This isn't about heritage, this is about survival.

This forum can no longer survive with one person ( first John, then Jim ) taking the burden of the costs alone, nor should we expect him to. That's not fair.

I agree with you that it has to be run like a business, but in order for a business to be successful, it has to have capital. And to ask certain members to pay while excusing others, with no benefit offered to the payer, IMO, just doesn't seem fair either.

That's my two cents worth.

I cannot believe what you wrote here.  So if an LN doesn't contribute (and how are you going to know if they do or don't), they cannot be a member?  WOW. That would have to be the same for a CT for something like that to be fair.

This forum has been used for years by all sorts of folk. We started taking donations when we took over the forum, but we barred no one just for money.

What would you do if all of a sudden you had a huge monetary problem, and because of that could not contribute, and therefore could not post about something that has been your life's work?  You don't know what folk go through. I contributed several hundred dollars when we took over (there was a group of us who contributed), but i cant do that now. I only get SS, after tithe, food, and rent, I am very low on funds. I cannot do donations every month. some months yes,some no.  Under the pay rule, I am out, because it has to be fair.

Not to mention upthread, someone brought up about possible problems with the forum requiring "pay to post." This could create problems for the Forum owner.  We don't want that. This is not a business.

 

We just need to streamline the donation part.  That is what we are doing in the next few weeks.

I was hoping that folk would donate to keep the Forum afloat, not just for what they want to see here,or who is gonna run the show.  I thought people cared about this place.   Those who can donate should. 

Up to you guys.

 

 

 

  

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James,

I would appreciate it if you would STOP giving updates on the $5 donation drive until after the week has elapsed.

This defeats part of the reason for having it.

This last page of conversation is another reason for it.

You already informed us that we had enough money to cover September's payment without the $5 fundraiser. 

The $5 donations should extend our Invision subscription through October.

This should allow plenty of time for discussions/concerns about the forward moving direction of the forum.

Of course, there needs to be a discussion cut-off date too. Maybe by the end of August.

This would allow plenty of time for people to have their voices heard.

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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