A Statement Regarding the Future of the Forum

[Sean Coleman]

40 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Yes it does. 

It is the best, most informative and most active JFK forum out there.

And its not just the active members, but there are many lurkers.

 

Dead right, JD

[Mart Hall]

My first post. 

I've been a lurker for several years and was only able to join very recently. I've donated. This forum is a fantastic place to learn about what really happened surrounding the JFKA and develop ones own thoughts on the behaviour of our Governments.  

FWIW I believe that some of sort of membership/subscription fee would be seen as value. But try everything you can to keep the fee low and rely on the volume of members to provide the revenues necessary. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Yes it does. 

It is the best, most informative and most active JFK forum out there.

And its not just the active members, but there are many lurkers.

 

Thanks for this statement, Jim.  I think I've learned close to as much from the forum over the last few years as I have from the many books I've read on the subject.  In some cases, more as subjects in those books have been expounded on here.  I visited ROKC a few times some years ago.  While it seemed informative a couple of members there were quite emphatic and intolerant of others in their view, often resorting to profanity.  I used to post at Jeff Morley's JFKFACTS for 2-3 years while lurking here before I joined.  I enjoy the format here much more.  I've been going to look into DPUK for some time but have just never done so.

I guess what I'm getting at is your perspective on this is important, to me at least.  From Probe to Kennedy's and King to now JFK Revisited/Destiny Betrayed, you've been at this a while now.  In addition to Black Op's Radio, pod casts and more you keep up with activity on the subject on a national and even international basis more than anyone I'm aware of.

Being able to ask questions and comment on posts by (for example), you, Larry Hancock, Joseph McBride, Pat Speer even Bill Simpich and Gary Murr a couple of times and so many more all the way down to average Joe's like myself is a privilege.  One I hope we don't lose.

[Mark Knight]

I, too, am NOT in favor of "pay to play." As James has pointed out, that would defeat the purpose of the forum, as established by John Simkin. I still correspond occasionally with John, and I have great respect for what he and Andy began here. As one of the administrators, I feel a strong duty to try to uphold the standards that John began here.

I also have no trouble admitting that I have a problem with how some members address criticisms of their posts. BUT if they stay within the forum rules, a grit my teeth and allow the discussion to continue, Especially so if I disagree with the criticism, but understand that the criticism might bring about further clarity in a reply from the one who was criticized.

I do NOT wish for The Education Forum to devolve into a "swamp," where profanity and personal attacks become the primary mode of communication. I [and the other administrators] continue to receive requests to rejoin the forum from people who have been removed for cause. Most of these requests are filled with invective against the forum itself and the administrators, and generally lack any promise to abide by the forum rules. To those for whom this may apply, who may be lurking since they no longer have posting privileges -- and posting here IS a privilege, not a right -- attacking the forum itself and the administrators is not the way to sway our opinions to your favor. 

We do NOT "censor" LNers. We do NOT "censor" adherents to the Harvey and Lee theory. We do NOT "censor" people on either side of the Prayer Man discussion. We do our humanly best to be even-handed in our moderation and administration of the forum. Sometimes we may be slow on the draw, because there are so few of us and we cannot be here on the forum 24/7. We try to "err," if that's what it is, on the side of promoting intelligent discussion, including those with which we personally disagree. 

A "pay-to-play" forum would run contrary to the way the forum currently operates. "Pay-to-play" would imply that the moderators would have little control, since "I paid for the right to say that!" would come into play. What about a no-refund policy? would that "discriminate" against those who might later get banned for failure to adhere to forum rules after paying? I believe that "pay-to-play" would have an overall negative effect on the forum.

These Are just some of the thoughts and issues I'm dealing with today. I'm soon to be 68 years old, and if I could guarantee my health and mental acuity into my 90s, I would volunteer to take on the fiduciary duties of the forum. But I've already outlived my dad [heart problems at 61] and while my grandmother on Mom's side lived to be almost 101 and was sharp to the end, my mom had dementia and died at 88. So the only thing I can guarantee is today, and the only part of today that's guaranteed is right now.

We have proven in the past that the forum CAN operate on donations. I think we can continue in that form. But we need to have a "chief financial officer" to ride herd on the Paypal account, and by posting a monthly financial report [income, disbursements, and account balance] I believe this CFO could easily perform the fiduciary duties with a minimum of effort.

 

[David Von Pein]

........

Edited August 6, 2022 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks so much Ron.   Much appreciated.

And I agree with Mark, you can do it on donations.

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:38 AM, James R Gordon said:

I would suggest that time is running out.
I have made my last payment to Invision. Their next payment is due on September 4th.
During that time you need a leader that is acceptable to the membership and remaining admin members.
That person must have the agreement of Invision and able to demonstrate to Invision they can fund the EF.
Invision will need the person’s bank details so that Invision can take their monthly subscription from that person's bank account.
So there is a lot to get through and not a lot of time to complete it.

James

 

Just give me an address ( and party of payment ) to send my $50 check. I can get this out by tomorrow.

I feel guilty.

I have not sent any monetary donations to our great forum here ever. 

This forum has provided me with YEARS of the most fulfilling and enlightened engagement with an area of passionate interest that I have ever been involved with.

My wife regularly donates to public radio and specifically a local non-profit all volunteer FM station out of Cupertino that plays music she loves.

About time I did the same with the JFK Education and Debate forum which has provided me with thousands of hours of richly stimulating and informative engagement with some of the most highly esteemed and credentialed JFK researchers in the country.

I hope more than 10 of us respond to our forum in it's time of need!

[Joe Bauer]

Can I just send my $50 check?

Please, tell me how to do this.

[Guest]

A few thoughts ...
 

- I don’t really see an issue with ads if they pay to keep the thing going and secure the forum’s future. 
 

- Multiple people here have expressed financial hardship, I wouldn’t want to see them restricted from posting if they’re not paying. 
 

- As others have pointed out, we so need a way to incentivise people to make these contributions, often if people think someone else will pick up the tab, they’ll refrain from doing so. 
 

I noted this page from another forum may provoke donations:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2739.0.html

- I am also totally ok with recognised authors, podcasters and researchers who really do add value, getting a pass when it comes to contributing, if that is indeed viable, as their presence enriches the place. 
 

- I am based in a self governing crown dependancy, we have no such taxes or regulations that would impact me having the PayPal or bank account where the bill is paid from, we have no income tax (technically). I am also relatively young at 41. However, regardless of whoever does it, there will need to be a contingency plan should they pass, maybe even a backup payment method from another party who can take over to ensure the forum continues running. I have zero interest in chasing people up, moderating, or any of that. I think the present people doing it do a decent job. 

1 hour ago, Mark Knight said:

I also have no trouble admitting that I have a problem with how some members address criticisms of their posts. BUT if they stay within the forum rules, a grit my teeth and allow the discussion to continue, Especially so if I disagree with the criticism, but understand that the criticism might bring about further clarity in a reply from the one who was criticized.

I do NOT wish for The Education Forum to devolve into a "swamp," where profanity and personal attacks become the primary mode of communication. I [and the other administrators] continue to receive requests to rejoin the forum from people who have been removed for cause. Most of these requests are filled with invective against the forum itself and the administrators, and generally lack any promise to abide by the forum rules. To those for whom this may apply, who may be lurking since they no longer have posting privileges -- and posting here IS a privilege, not a right -- attacking the forum itself and the administrators is not the way to sway our opinions to your favor. 

Mark is right here. It should not devolve into a swamp or battleground for members to grind axes or settles scores. I recognise that we are all human, imperfect and people often don’t react well. Many of us could be more diplomatic, considerate, and cordial when it comes to the way we talk to eachother, of course that includes me. There is a quote from psychologist Jordan B. Peterson that goes along the lines of; if we choose to behave in a malevolent way, and everyone did that, our environment becomes hell. The opposite is true, too. For sure we’d attract more members if we did the latter. A handful or so of us could do better. In some ways the JFK/RFK quote that we have more in common than that which makes us different is true. Mark is right; the place should be maintained in the spirit that John Simpkin and co set out IMHO. 

- It’s great having an open discussion on how the forum is to proceed and find the monies to do it but, ultimately some seem pretty entrenched. At some stage shortly some of us need to compromise to achieve our goals, we’ll need to be flexible. As opposed to moaning about decisions that are potentially not to our taste. I am certainly a newish member (2020) and am happy to go with the flow and I recognise that my say is less significant than those who have put so much hard work into making this forum what it is, a great resource. I would just like to say thank you to those people. 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Can I just send my $50 check?

Please, tell me how to do this.

Joe, I think Chris Davidson may be right when he posted earlier about paper checks potentially being problematic.  They don't want a $50 donation, yet.  Don't feel guilty. 

The last time funding came up, if I remember correctly, James could not bring himself to ask for help, just announcing the forum would probably be shutting down, and, that he could never ask members to come up with such a sum.  Some posters said let us help.  I was one of them.  He did.  I tried to donate $50 but had difficulty using the link at the time.  He made a suggestion, others did too, I still couldn't get it to work.  He announced no more donations were necessary, donations had been received to cover over a year.  This after he had funded the site himself for several years as I understand it.  I never donated.  I guess he intended to fund it again himself after the donations ran out.  But inflation has bitten pretty much all of us in the ass.  And it's not fair that one person should have to bear the responsibility of funding the site.  I believe this is a public service and those who agree should collectively support it.

I think you can now days send a "check" electronically through your bank on line.

I'm set in my ways in many respects but can't imagine life these days without a debit card.  If the grid ever goes down for an extended period, like just about everyone else, I'm screwed.  The gas pumps wouldn't work in the first place.  But do gas stations still take checks?   

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Nick Bartetzko]

I’ve been a member here for many years…just don’t post anymore. Count me in for a monthly donation, but I’d prefer to donate a lump sum each year. I made a donation to James a year or two ago, but I never received a confirmation and have no idea where the money ended up..

Nick

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:10 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

My guess is that Cory's [legal/taxation] concern is the following:

 

I've done more extensive checking on the tax consequences of using of PayPal to collect money for the forum.

There is a new IRS rule (for 2022) that requires PayPal to notify the IRS if an account has collected more than $600 during the tax year. That's the bad news. The good news is that rule only applies to payments for goods and services that you are selling. (Source)

When you send money to a PayPal account, you need to specify whether the money is for the purchase of goods and services, or if it is a personal payment to a family member or friend. The latter would be used in our case. In fact, it is common practice for a person who paid for dinner to ask friends to reimburse him through his PayPal account.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:32 PM, James R Gordon said:

It is not for me to decide. but I feel a central fund [ like a paypal account ] is better. Especially when directly linked to our Invision account. I believe there ought to be a "keeper" for that account.

 

James,

Is there currently a PayPal account attached to the forum? If the answer is yes, then I'm sure that it can be replaced with a different PayPal account. Hopefully an American one, in order to save currency exchange fees in both directions.

My question is this: Does the name on the PayPal account need to match the name on the Invision account, in order to attach it?

 

[James R Gordon]

Yes there is a Paypal avvount attached to the EF, The account linked to Invision is actually a bank account. I use the paypal account as a collection account.

No the name on the account foes not need to be the same. What is required is to link the new Paypal account with Invision.

James

[Sandy Larsen]

21 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

1) An entity on a tight budget looses all control in not knowing how much will be charged each month.  I mean, in this contract it's either 70 or 120 their going to take, and there is nothing we can do about it....  One can only budget the WCS (120) and hope for the best ?   No good to me... 

 

The reason the monthly Invision fee sometimes jumps from 70 to 120 is because the number of page views for the month exceeds the limit for our plan. Which BTW is the cheapest Invision plan.

If interest in the JFK assassination increases, we will probably one day decided to move to the 120 monthly plan. (Sorry, I don't know if these numbers are UK pounds or US dollars.) That plan will give us a ton more storage space, page views, etc. And probably more members who will donate to pay forum fees.