How did Oswald just happened to get a job at the place where he was needed to be the patsy?

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

The answer is they didn't. It wasn't necessary to do such a thing.

The entire motorcade through Dallas was one long opportunity to shoot JFK from a building with a rifle.

This was not a moon shot that needed weeks of planning.

And JFK agreed with me.

Matt:

I do not have a definitive answer, of course.

John Newman is of the opinion that hands-on, practical planning began six weeks before the JFKA, inside the CIA.  But as for concrete details, like placing LHO inside the TSBD...that does not exist, as you probably know. 

Many suspect there were JFKA plots in Miami and Chicago to shoot JFK. That would suggest more catch-as-catch-can quality on actual ops.

There were literally thousands of CIA assets inside the US at that time, due to the Cuba situation---exiles, veterans, CIA, mercenaries, soldiers on loan to black ops, and so on. With so many assets, the JFKA may nave been a matter of just coordinating assets that happened to be in Dallas, or could get there. Most of these assets knew how to handle weaponry and some even how to plan black ops. 

And in fact, the fatal shots may have come the Dal-Tex building, while the GK gunsel did his thing. 

My pet theory is LHO was somehow placed into the TSBD, but to stage an anti-Castro false flag op. But LHO's location could have been by chance, and then was taken advantage of by elements within the CIA. 

Sheesh, judging from some of the commentary, the CIA had dozens and dozens of assets everywhere in Dallas, inside the TSBD, the DPD, the Sheriff's Department, the FBI, the Secret Service, the Mayor, in mob outfits, and so on.

That's not my view, but some contend it was so. 

 

 

[John Cotter]

8 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Wrong.

"But Jackie, if somebody wants to shoot me from a window with a rifle, nobody can stop it, so why worry about it?"

  - JFK 11/22/63

Matt,

I’ve given you my short metaphorical answer. This is a longer version.

If you’re organising the assassination of POTUS, as Allen said, you’re going to do everything possible to ensure that it’s successful. As James Douglass and others have said, the layout of Dealey Plaza was ideal for triangulated crossfire and the escape of the “mechanics”.

In that context, the TSBD as the location of one of the mechanics, decoy and/or patsy was an obvious choice.

The fact that, as Douglass described, JFK was resigned to the likelihood of being assassinated doesn’t mean that the conspirators wouldn’t take the greatest possible care to ensure they would be successful in their plan and get away with it.

[Joseph McBride]

On May 12, 1962, at a VIP reception before the Jefferson-Jackson Day 

dinner in Milwaukee's Auditorium and Arena, my father, Raymond E. McBride

of the Milwaukee Journal, had a chance to shake President Kennedy's

hand and asked him one question. "Do you ever worry about being

assassinated?" my father asked. Kennedy responded that he realized

that could happen but that he could not do his job if he worried about it.

 

I was part of the "honor guard" at that dinner (my mother, Marian

Dunne McBride, was seated on the dais as vice-chairman of the Wisconsin

Democratic Party) and afterward was standing at the presidential podium

in the empty arena. I had gone there and found that Kennedy had left

his speech notes, on which he had doodled sailboats. I was debating

whether to steal from the president of the United States when

a Secret Service agent came up to remove the presidential

seal from the podium. I asked him if I could have the speech notes,

and he said, no, because the president might have been writing

something about Berlin. Then the agent left, and shortly thereafter, I heard

movement behind the curtain. I pulled it back, and JFK

passed five feet from me. I impulsively called out, "Hi, Jack!"

and he nodded with a smile and turned to walk down a ramp

into the limousine in which he would be murdered the following year.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Joseph McBride

[Paul Cummings]

Even today people refuse to grasp that the JFKA was a professional hit.

[Joe Bauer]

I doubt there was one higher than three story building along the entire Dallas motorcade route that had the higher floor and room layout of the TXSBD.

The 6th floor of the TXSBD was just one big, open, wall-less warehouse space. That just happened to be empty of any other person besides a shooter? The perfect place to hide, then retrieve and assemble a broken down scoped rifle and set up a multi-boxed barricaded sniper's nest with gun rest incognito and have several minutes of incognito time to do all this before the arrival of JFK's limo.

The view from the Eastern most Plaza facing 6th floor TXSBD window was a turkey shoot one enhanced even more with JFK's limo having to take (2) slowing 90 degree turns right in front and right below said window. The Eastern most 6th floor window also provided an open aiming view of JFK's limo even after it was leaving and continuing on down slightly sloped Elm Street.

Gee, what a lucky coincidence for Lee Oswald that he happened to be employed in this best sniper set up building?

Shooting JFK as his limo was 265 feet away and driving away made more sense than getting him with a frontal shot coming towards the TXSBD on Houston, or directly underneath.

As many ground level bystander witnesses said, they thought the shots came from the long stretch of the upper part of the grassy knoll area under tree canopy or stone and wooden wall cover.

What a clever play on the shooter's part to wait until JFK's limo was leaving the Plaza and going along the Grassy knoll area as a diversionary sniper shot location focus.

As I've mentioned many times before, the "highest security measures ever taken" quote by DPD Chief Curry did not include having anyone scanning open high floor windows as JFK's limo passed underneath them as well as stationing officers on rooftops of such buildings?  This security planning idea was ignored by all the other JFK Dallas motorcade security forces as well?

JFK himself thought his best chance at being taken out was by someone shooting him with a high powered rifle from above. But his own security people didn't also think of this simple common sense scenario and it being worthy of high priority consideration and addressing?

Clint Hill in his senior days lecture tours said many times, "his agency" simply didn't have the money and resources to address this specific security measure. But what about others who had the financial means?

I always thought it was common security minded sense to at least consider such a specific security measure and that this would have been discussed mutually between the entire motorcade security forces. The Miami PD just weeks earlier sure discussed and worried about it and addressed it by canceling the motorcade and moving JFK  by helicopter.

If the SS didn't have the manpower, the DPD and Dallas Sheriff's office sure did. They had plenty of reserve officers available for such a measure.

My common sense guess is JFK's motorcade route was "purposely" planned with the last and most vulnerable silly little dog leg, two slowing 90% angle turns through the tightly looped, and relatively sparsely attended Plaza and grassy knoll area ( relative to the enormous crowds on Main Street) which just added to Lee Oswald's ( or other shooters) incredibly perfect shooting location luck.

And what another dark humor coincidence that the shooter's nest just happened to be in a building owned by JFK hating, extreme right wing Texas oil baron D.H. Byrd. 

Sorry, too many nefarious and illogical logistical and missed security measure coincidences to ignore or pass off as Oswald's simple luck ...imo anyways. 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Matt Allison]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Many suspect there were JFKA plots in Miami and Chicago to shoot JFK. That would suggest more catch-as-catch-can quality on actual ops.

 

100%. Ben gets it.

Was LHO in Miami, Tampa, or Chicago earlier in November for the plots there?

Nope.

And those are just the ones we know about; there undoubtedly were more, but the SS destroyed all their records from 1963, after being told in the 90s to make them available to the ARRB.

[Mark Knight]

Actually, as I figure it, the turn from Houston to Elm was a 135-degree angle, changing the direction of travel of the limo from north to southwest, more or less. 

MUCH more difficult for the driver to execute than a simple 90-degree angle.

[John Cotter]

6 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

100%. Ben gets it.

Was LHO in Miami, Tampa, or Chicago earlier in November for the plots there?

Nope.

And those are just the ones we know about; there undoubtedly were more, but the SS destroyed all their records from 1963, after being told in the 90s to make them available to the ARRB.

The relevance of LHO being or not being in Miami or those other places to what we're talking about here doesn't seem clear to me.

[Joe Bauer]

4 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Actually, as I figure it, the turn from Houston to Elm was a 135-degree angle, changing the direction of travel of the limo from north to southwest, more or less. 

MUCH more difficult for the driver to execute than a simple 90-degree angle.

EXACTLY.

90% turns were to be avoided under SS motorcade security protocols.

And this one was 135-derees?

Turning into Dealey Plaza was a death trap.

[Anthony Thorne]

17 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Many suspect there were JFKA plots in Miami and Chicago to shoot JFK. That would suggest more catch-as-catch-can quality on actual ops.

They might have planned Miami and Chicaco and Dallas together all in advance, with the notion that if one f*cked up, the next one a few weeks later would give them another shot.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Anthony Thorne

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

Even today people refuse to grasp that the JFKA was a professional hit.

Professional...or more about politics and ideology? 

It was planned, involved a minimum of three people. The GK gunsel, LHO and another shooter. 

BTW, three people have been the maximum involved also (on an operational level). 

The GK gunsel, and other shooter may have been motivated by politics or ideology, such as a connection to Cuba. Not money. LHO thought he was part of an anti-Castro false flag op. 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

3 hours ago, John Cotter said:

The relevance of LHO being or not being in Miami or those other places to what we're talking about here doesn't seem clear to me.

Because there are people that think the entire plan to assassinate JFK revolved exclusively around Dallas and LHO for months in advance. 

The other plots (that had nothing to do with LHO) demonstrate that, as Ben described it, catch-as-catch can was more likely the modus operandi.

After LHO was already working in downtown Dallas, the WH agreed to a motorcade, and that was when that particular specific opportunity presented itself.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Matt Allison

[Matt Allison]

LHO had his job at TSBD before JFK's people at the White House had decided on any aspect of the trip to Texas.

October 20, 1963: Kenny O'Donnell, special assistant and appointments secretary to President Kennedy, calls Jerry Bruno, the advance man for the Kennedy trip, and asks him to come to the White House to discuss the trip to Texas.

October 21, 1963: Bruno meets with O'Donnell and is told to contact Walter Jenkins, one of Vice President Lyndon Johnson's top administrative assistants, to solicit his input for the trip.

October 24, 1963: Bruno meets with Jenkins, who tells Bruno about the stops that Governor Connally has suggested. The first stop would be to fly to San Antonio on November 21 and drive in a motorcade to Brooks Air Force Base, then fly to Houston and drive in a motorcade to the Rice Hotel, where the Albert Thomas dinner was originally scheduled to take place, and stay overnight at the hotel. Then on the morning of November 22, the president would fly to Fort Worth to receive an honorary degree at Texas Christian University at 9:30 a.m. and then ride in a motorcade for the short distance to Dallas, where he would attend a luncheon at the annual meeting of the Dallas Citizens Council at the Statler Hilton Hotel. Finally, the president would attend a fundraising dinner in Austin before returning to Washington.

[Tony Krome]

38 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

After LHO was working in downtown Dallas, and once the WH agreed to a motorcade, was when that particular specific opportunity presented itself.

What was the date that the WH agreed to a motorcade?

[Allen Lowe]

The more I thought about this overnight the more silly it seemed. If you’re going to assassinate a president you pick a place you going to do it or want to do it. It’s not a matter of “hey here comes the motorcade let’s get in the building.” As we see with the Texas book depository it takes strategy, collusion, a means of escape, and a lot of other variables. Saying that as it wasn’t planned but rather a last-minute impulse is missing how well coordinated things clearly were, from the police to the Secret Service.

Even if Oswald as depository worker was a bit of a rush job, and there’s no way of knowing this in terms of prior collusion, It just means they were working on other ways to get it done in this prime location with possibly other patsys. And there were a lot more than three people on the ground, in terms of coverage, escape, distraction behind the fence – all things that have to have been planned well in advance. I’m just amazed anyone could think otherwise. 
 

and if they had taken another route? Just like in Miami and who knows elsewhere, it would’ve been postponed and reset. But that does not mean the location was chosen randomly, only that things, for once, aligned perfectly as they had not aligned before. They were stalking JFK, and would just have gone ahead to plan C or D.

Matt wants to keep denying this because otherwise it puts Mrs. Paine at the center.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Allen Lowe