Bob Ness Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Allen Lowe said: Larry - don't know if you saw my prior post about a guy I talked to in the 1990s who told me Oswald had told him he worked for ONI, even before LHO went to Russia. Have you tried contacting him yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 11 hours ago, Paul Brancato said: When Trump said what he saw convinced him not to release documents I believe the documents he was actually referring to were about him - blackmail. Possibly! Hahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Jeff is is still talking about this on his sub stack column. He seems to think that the part of the equation that is missing is in the Johannides classified files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Spencer Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Jeff is is still talking about this on his sub stack column. He seems to think that the part of the equation that is missing is in the Johannides classified files. Man! Jeff is on 🔥 lately. He’s keeping interest in this Dec. 15 deadline stirred up — and putting pressure on the administration. Clock is ticking… 2 DAYS. ⏰ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Tom Gram said: Oswald also supposedly ran a one-man propaganda operation in New Orleans that included hiring helpers, printing flyers, etc. while unemployed and told Dean Andrews he was getting paid for it - and there is credible evidence suggesting that he may have even rented an office. Did Oswald rent a hand bill printer? Borrow one? Buy one? Was the room space he needed to do this free? How did he afford to pay his helpers on just his unemployment? Where did he find these helpers? Just went up to them as they stood around idly on street corners or sat on park benches and offered them a few dollars to do this? Some may say that Marina was happy living in roach crawling apartments with the barest of furnishings, no TV, no bedding for June. Buying the minimum food with meat as a luxury. Having teeth problems yet not being able to afford medical care. After all, she did come from a lifestyle in Russia that just having an apartment with a bedroom was fine and not much variety of foods to eat. Jeanne De Mohrenchildts testified that Marina told her with sarcastic disdain something very close to the following regards her husband Lee when she ( Marina ) and Jeanne see Lee's rifle in a closet ... Look at this idiot...we need food and other things for the family and he buys a rifle? Marina was not content with her and Lee's usual financial straights. She may have told the Warren Commission she was and didn't need to be indulged like average American young mothers, but tell that to Jeanne De Mohrenschildts. Marina did not like having to ask others for help and even shelter in 1963. She didn't even like Ruth Paine in my opinion. But she needed her basic needs financial, clean shelter and transportation help. Edited December 13, 2022 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) On 12/12/2022 at 7:39 PM, Bob Ness said: Possibly. But there is strong documentary evidence now that Oswald was a false defector due to the fact that documents regarding him were routed circuitously around normal channels PRIOR to his defection. Although that doesn't sound condemning to the casual person, it would be a standard bureaucratic maneuver in an intelligence agency to obscure any role Oswald may be playing. Any concrete record of potential Oswald activity (memos, file descriptions etc) could be expunged but the more oblique references are difficult to completely remove. The same goes for incorrectly filed records although I'm not aware of any of those. In my experience the functioning "spies" I have known were mostly kooks or very weird people with the exception of one, who was a committed communist revealed in the Venona project. He and his wife were great, humble people but also lived out of the ordinary. One, involved with the CIA in southeast Asia was certifiably nuts but also the best in the world (or close to) at what he did. Another one was with Army intelligence I believe and helped set up, record and monitor MLK. Absolutely nuts. Many of these operators (as opposed to "Agents") are used for exactly that reason. Normal people wouldn't do some of the stuff they engage in. Trust me. You wouldn't either. So... Oswald being off kilter isn't a profound revelation. I totally expect it. All the proper English majors became teachers. People like Oswald? Not so much. Hi Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) On 12/13/2022 at 5:29 AM, Joe Bauer said: Did Oswald rent a hand bill printer? Borrow one? Buy one? Was the room space he needed to do this free? How did he afford to pay his helpers on just his unemployment? Where did he find these helpers? Just went up to them as they stood around idly on street corners or sat on park benches and offered them a few dollars to do this? Some may say that Marina was happy living in roach crawling apartments with the barest of furnishings, no TV, no bedding for June. Buying the minimum food with meat as a luxury. Having teeth problems yet not being able to afford medical care. After all, she did come from a lifestyle in Russia that just having an apartment with a bedroom was fine and not much variety of foods to eat. Jeanne De Mohrenchildts testified that Marina told her with sarcastic disdain something very close to the following regards her husband Lee when her and Jeanne see Lee's rifle in a closet ... Look at this idiot...we need food and other things for the family and he buys a rifle? Marina was not content with her and Lee's usual financial straights. She may have told the Warren Commission she was and didn't need to be indulged like average American young mothers, but tell that to Jeanne De Mohrenschildts. Marina did not like having to ask others for help and even shelter in 1963. She didn't even like Ruth Paine in my opinion. But she needed her basic needs financial, clean shelter and transportation help. Hi Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Allen, I did and that was actually the reason for my post. One of the things we have to consider is that Oswald could show up in an ONI file (or any agency file) as a source when he was simply in contact with a third party contact and totally unwitting. We see Cuban names show up all the time in CIA documents when the individual is simply the subject of information being passed on and has no idea the person he was talking to was a voluntary source - not even a paid informant, an asset etc. In recent presentations I've been outlining a broader picture of Oswald, who admittedly frequented bars and engaged in conversations with not just women but as he himself said, young Japanese with his general political views who really expanded and reinforced his own ideas. My friend Jack Swike, a Marine CI officer at Atsuki, wrote that the military was quite aware of what was happening in those bars and clubs and conducted surveillance and placed its own informants to identify military personnel who would be monitored as security risks. All of which means Oswald could very well be showing up in ONI files - and very likely did - and being talked about by name for a number of reasons. Oswald actually "working" for ONI as an informant would be something else entirely and that claim would need some sort of corroboration. It would not be at all out of the question for ONI to be playing Oswald as an unwitting dangle - or even arranging to test him in the case he decided to be more active in passing on actual intelligence. Given Oswald's personality and proven history of not taking orders and doing his own thing from his teen years on, personally I could see him being used unwittingly more than as some sort of actual "asset", tasks by ONI and making reports or taking specific assignments. As usual the devil is in the details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 16 hours ago, Lance Payette said: Joe, I made this same point here years ago, and you graciously agreed with me then. Oswald's alleged role with the FBI and/or CIA was so "undercover" that he stayed away from the hospital when Rachel was born because he feared they'd charge him, kept his baby in a cardboard box, rented roach-infested hovels, and feuded with Marina over the barest necessities. THAT, by God, is deep undercover - or perhaps, as Occam might say, he simply had no relationship with the FBI or CIA at all. Nice to see you posting here Lance. I am always amazed that anyone still believes Oswald was an agent of some kind. All you have to do is look at the life of one of the top spys of the Cold War period, David Phillips, to see that this is nonsense. Phillips always had a plausible cover. In Cuba, he was running an advertising agency. In Santiago, he was a newspaper publisher (which he was legitimately been before the CIA hired him). But at all times, he had a house, a car, and proper health care for himself and his family. Nobody works for the CIA or FBI for free and there is no evidence Oswald ever had any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gram Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: Nice to see you posting here Lance. I am always amazed that anyone still believes Oswald was an agent of some kind. All you have to do is look at the life of one of the top spys of the Cold War period, David Phillips, to see that this is nonsense. Phillips always had a plausible cover. In Cuba, he was running an advertising agency. In Santiago, he was a newspaper publisher (which he was legitimately been before the CIA hired him). But at all times, he had a house, a car, and proper health care for himself and his family. Nobody works for the CIA or FBI for free and there is no evidence Oswald ever had any money. Tracy, you are comparing a staff CIA officer with informants and assets. Do you think all the unwitting, and even witting assets of the CIA got a paycheck every month and a thank you note? What about numbered FBI informants? How much do you think the FBI paid people like Joseph Oster, Arnesto Rodriguez, etc.? How do we know they were even paid at all? What about PSIs and PCIs? Did they get paid anything despite their provisional status? How about a degenerate serial informant like Betty Parent? She almost certainly got paid for her frequent services, but how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tom Gram said: Tracy, you are comparing a staff CIA officer with informants and assets. Do you think all the unwitting, and even witting assets of the CIA got a paycheck every month and a thank you note? What about numbered FBI informants? How much do you think the FBI paid people like Joseph Oster, Arnesto Rodriguez, etc.? How do we know they were even paid at all? What about PSIs and PCIs? Did they get paid anything despite their provisional status? How about a degenerate serial informant like Betty Parent? She almost certainly got paid for her frequent services, but how much? "Provisional status" Is there such a thing as a provisional fbi informant? Would such a provisional fbi informant have an fbi file and/or provisional informant number which would be held at fbi hq or the local fbi office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tom Gram said: Tracy, you are comparing a staff CIA officer with informants and assets. Do you think all the unwitting, and even witting assets of the CIA got a paycheck every month and a thank you note? Many theorists think Oswald was a full-fledged agent of some intelligence service. What you are suggesting is certainly more believable but still wrong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Tom Gram said: Tracy, you are comparing a staff CIA officer with informants and assets. Do you think all the unwitting, and even witting assets of the CIA got a paycheck every month and a thank you note? What about numbered FBI informants? How much do you think the FBI paid people like Joseph Oster, Arnesto Rodriguez, etc.? How do we know they were even paid at all? What about PSIs and PCIs? Did they get paid anything despite their provisional status? How about a degenerate serial informant like Betty Parent? She almost certainly got paid for her frequent services, but how much? Nice one Tom. Are we to somehow overlook the Betsy Wolf discoveries about Oswald's CIA file, from the very start? His proficiency in the Russian language? The almost miraculous speed with which he got a hardship discharge? His lying about his excuse for that, and there being no inquiry about it? His knowledge about the place to go to to get a quick entry visa into Russia, namely Helsinki? How he stayed at two of the finest hotels in that city, way beyond his means? How the KGB has him smoked out and he even faked a suicide attempt to stay there? How they sent him to Minsk and surrounded him with a ring of intel informants and had electronic surveillance in his room? I could go on and on, but please. Something was up with Oswald from 1959. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gram Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Gerry Down said: "Provisional status" Is there such a thing as a provisional fbi informant? Would such a provisional fbi informant have an fbi file and/or provisional informant number which would be held at fbi hq or the local fbi office? Yes - but I’m not exactly sure how the record keeping on that worked. From the documents I’ve seen, it looks like a provisional informant would usually be assigned a temporary designation like T-2 for the body of an FBI report, then on the report cover page they’d just be referred to by name, like “informant T-2 is PSI Dick Johnson”, etc. Once the informant was approved their name would no longer appear in FBI reports. The cover page would say something like “T-2 is NO-1269S” or the informant number would just be used in the body of the report. My point is I have not seen any kind of tracking/record keeping information on PSI/PCIs. I’d assume that a list or something would be kept in the acting field office and a file kept on each provisional informant but I’ve never seen anything like that. If you ever come across that sort of thing let me know. A good example is Arnesto Rodriguez. He was a PSI for a while back in 1961/62 before getting assigned an informant number. I forget the exact date range when this happened but all of a sudden he got a number and his name stopped appearing in FBI reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) On 12/13/2022 at 2:12 PM, James DiEugenio said: How he stayed at two of the finest hotels in that city, way beyond his means? Hi Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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