David Lifton's latter-day claims

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Adam Johnson said:

DVP SAID: That's right, Vince. And here's SS Agent John Ready telling us that very thing about getting inside the SS follow-up car (emphasis is mine): "I left the follow-up car in the direction of the President's car but was recalled by ATSAIC Emory Roberts as the cars increased their speeds. I got back on the car and seated myself beside Mr. Roberts in the right front seat."

WHERE DOES THIS EVER TAKE PLACE IN THE ZAPRUDER,NIX OR MUCHMORE FILMS???????

Ready said he first "got back ON the car" (not IN it). Then, sometime later (on Stemmons obviously, since Ready is still on the running board in the McIntire pictures), he got IN the follow-up car.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Adam Johnson]

Where DVP did agent ready leave the QM and move towards the Presidential limousine??????

It wasn't in Dealey plaza, it wasn't in the first 150m thru the triple underpass....

Your bullxxxt semantics argument over " i got back on the car and seated myself besides Mr. Roberts in the right front seat" is a trick you use constantly over the years to avoid discussing the main point of others statements.

Your reading into Ready's statements to suit your personal argumentative goal.

Answer the damn question above DVP: where did agent Ready leave the QM to then be recalled by Emory Roberts???       

Everyone else here takes Ready's statement as it reads....he isnt trying to be deceptive......he returned to the QM and took a seat beside Roberts immediately....thats what he was instructed to do.

DSL had found proof in others statements or in newspaper reports that something else had happened once outside Dealey Plaza with the two main limousines and was trying to bring it to everyone else attention. 

You DVP have found nothing in 15 years, you have contributed nothing. You walk upon the earth with your eye's wide shut!

You are nothing more than a "barnacle on the ship of progress "!

AJ

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Where DVP did agent ready leave the QM and move towards the Presidential limousine??????

It wasn't in Dealey plaza, it wasn't in the first 150m thru the triple underpass....

Your bullxxxt semantics argument over " i got back on the car and seated myself besides Mr. Roberts in the right front seat" is a trick you use constantly over the years to avoid discussing the main point of others statements.

Your reading into Ready's statements to suit your personal argumentative goal.

Answer the damn question above DVP: where did agent Ready leave the QM to then be recalled by Emory Roberts???       

Everyone else here takes Ready's statement as it reads....he isnt trying to be deceptive......he returned to the QM and took a seat beside Roberts immediately....thats what he was instructed to do.

DSL had found proof in others statements or in newspaper reports that something else had happened once outside Dealey Plaza with the two main limousines and was trying to bring it to everyone else attention. 

You DVP have found nothing in 15 years, you have contributed nothing. You walk upon the earth with your eye's wide shut!

You are nothing more than a "barnacle on the ship of progress "!

AJ

We should probably wait to see David Lifton's final work before we claim he had "proof" of anything. As stated, David was a creative thinker--he'd take something reported somewhere and say "Hmmm...maybe this means..." But a lot of what he came up with publicly and proposed privately was not supported by the bulk of the evidence. 

[James DiEugenio]

Adam;

If you are saying that this happened in Dealey Plaza but is not on any films, are you then saying that all the films have been radically edited? 

Do you also think, like Lifton, that there was a mano a mano between Ready and JBC?

I am not siding with DVP.  Never.  I agree with you on that.

But I am trying to understand just what Lifton was trying to indicate and how credible, and what the evidence for it,  was.

[John Deignan]

I believe you can see the front agent on the running board passenger side of the QM step off of the running board in the Nix film. 

[John Deignan]

It appears he steps off of the running board. I should add I believe he got right back on and didn’t dive into the JFK limo. 

[David Von Pein]

5 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Answer the damn question above DVP: where did agent Ready leave the QM to then be recalled by Emory Roberts???       

That's in the Nix Film. Agent John Ready can be seen stepping off of his QM running board and down to the street and moving slightly forward just after the fatal head shot. He then goes out of Mr. Nix's camera range. ....

https://drive.google.com/video file/The Orville Nix Film

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

Why is there no Obit for Lifton yet?

Its well over a week right?

What are they waiting for?

[Pat Speer]

15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Why is there no Obit for Lifton yet?

Its well over a week right?

What are they waiting for?

Who is "they"? if the news services have not been alerted by a paid obit or a press release, and the family is reluctant to pay for an obit or a press release, there may never be an obit. In such case, Lifton's death would pass the way most of ours  pass--in silence. 

[James DiEugenio]

The guy wrote a   big best selling book on the case.  And also a best selling video on the JFK case.

My point is that I can find no obituary at all, let alone one published by a PR firm.

Mark Lane got a story in the Washington Post when he died.

 

[Pat Speer]

30 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

The guy wrote a   big best selling book on the case.  And also a best selling video on the JFK case.

My point is that I can find no obituary at all, let alone one published by a PR firm.

Mark Lane got a story in the Washington Post when he died.

 

I hate to be negative about this, but I don't think the media gives a rat's ass who you were unless someone pays to make an official announcement. In Lane's case, he had family and presumably a publisher who could announce his death. In Lifton's case his next of kin is...? And his publisher is...? 

While I doubt any announcement is forthcoming in the mainstream press, I have to believe Wiki will eventually allow mention of David's death. Once someone like Posner announces it in an article...

Edited December 15, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Vince Palamara]

5 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I hate to be negative about this, but I don't think the media gives a rat's ass who you were unless someone pays to make an official announcement. In Lane's case, he had family and presumably a publisher who could announce his death. In Lifton's case his next of kin is...? And his publisher is...? 

While I doubt any announcement is forthcoming in the mainstream press, I have to believe Wiki will eventually allow mention of David's death. Once someone like Posner announces it in an article...

I think Pat is right about this. I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but I would bet, in the MSM's eyes, Lifton was/is probably viewed as a "has-been" who four decades (plus) ago had a best-seller about a "conspiracy theory." In OUR eyes, he is a legendary best-selling author. Lane was married; Lifton was not. I know "unknown" local people have obituaries all the time, but they had FAMILIES; Lifton did not have a wife or kids. 

For David's legacy, he should have published the follow-up (much, much sooner). However, based on what he espoused in that video, maybe not. Nevertheless, by not following up on that first and only best-selling book, and with no immediate family (wife/kids), Lifton just isn't noteworthy to the MSM.

Come to think of it, I don't think there was an obituary for Harry Livingstone (2 best-sellers, 1990-1992) when he passed in 2015 (again, no wife or kids).

[Jonathan Cohen]

2 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:

I think Pat is right about this. I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but I would bet, in the MSM's eyes, Lifton was/is probably viewed as a "has-been" who four decades (plus) ago had a best-seller about a "conspiracy theory." In OUR eyes, he is a legendary best-selling author. Lane was married; Lifton was not. I know "unknown" local people have obituaries all the time, but they had FAMILIES; Lifton did not have a wife or kids. 

For David's legacy, he should have published the follow-up (much, much sooner). However, based on what he espoused in that video, maybe not. Nevertheless, by not following up on that first and only best-selling book, and with no immediate family (wife/kids), Lifton just isn't noteworthy to the MSM.

Come to think of it, I don't think there was an obituary for Harry Livingstone (2 best-sellers, 1990-1992) when he passed in 2015 (again, no wife or kids).

Vince and Pat are absolutely right about this.

[Steven Kossor]

David Lifton led a "storied" life and shared lots of anecdotes with me about being in Cuba, Berlin, Dallas and Bethesda (he talked about going up inside the Bowers railway tower in Dallas and sitting on the JFK autopsy table in Bethesda, for example).  His Wikipedia entry has finally accepted the accuracy of his death notice following the NY Times obituary publication.  There are many people on the Education Forum who knew David for a longer period of time, studied his historical work products more expertly than I did, and who would be better qualified to write a press release about his passing than I am.  He was my friend, certainly, and a mentor too, and I will miss him for his insights, thoughtfulness and insistence on exploring the JFKA with a scholarly appreciation for the value of corroboration whenever possible (which contributed significantly to the delay in his publication of Final Charade).  We shared reverence for the bedrock principles of physics and, especially in the last five years of his life, the value of "critical incident debriefing" techniques (especially examining thin "time slices" of evidence in chronological order to identify missing sections and events that must have happened in them in order for subsequent sections to be coherent) for the understanding of events from a forensic perspective.  I look forward to collecting pieces of information that David shared with others in the interest of compiling the best possible version of Final Charade as a memorial to him.  Anyone interested in contributing material toward this effort is invited to submit content to me through private messaging here via my profile.  All contributions will be appropriately annotated, of course.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Jim, in today's New York Times, in the obituary section, it read " LIFTON- David Samuel.  We mourn the loss of the author,David Lifton who died peaefully on December 6 in hospice care in Las Vegas.  His book Best Evidence received much critical acclaim.   A graveside ceremony will be held at a date to be determined."