RFK Jr discusses his candidacy, and talks about Operation Northwoods

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

To show you the kind of person Bobby Jr is.

Today, about 48 hours after he declared in Boston, he was in LA.

Not for a campaign event.  Far from it.

I was invited to the wake for the late Paul Schrade at RFK community school.

I walked in the doors to the library and who do I see?  RFK Jr.

I walked up to him and shook his hand and said: "Nice to see you Mr. President."

 

Kudos.

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Whew, talk about tyranny of the Democratic Establishment.

Ok, talk about it. Are you saying because Matt agrees with the current U.S. support of the war , that he's succumbing to the tyranny of the "democratic establishment".

I know at the time  of the ousting of Yanukovych, you were in favor of Putin taking Crimea. Maybe some of us didn't agree with that invasion either. Is that because we were under the tyranny of the "Democratic establishment"?

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

To show you the kind of person Bobby Jr is.

Today, about 48 hours after he declared in Boston, he was in LA.

Not for a campaign event.  Far from it.

I was invited to the wake for the late Paul Schrade at RFK community school.

Why wouldn't you expect RFK Jr. to be there? Shrade  was shot in the head when his own Father was assassinated!

He's obviously a family friend. I'm more interested how you got there than RFK Jr. Ok, and what's unusual about that?

 

Jim; Today, about 48 hours after he declared in Boston, he was in LA.

As you know Jim, RFK Jr. lives in LA.  Shrade died 5 months ago.  You don't think these dates to declare for the Presidency and attend Shrade's wake wasn't pre planned?

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ok, talk about it. Are you saying because Matt agrees with the current U.S. support of the war , that he's succumbing to the tyranny of the "democratic establishment".

I know at the time  of the ousting of Yanukovych, you were in favor of Putin taking Crimea. Maybe some of us didn't agree with that invasion either. Is that because we were under the tyranny of the "Democratic establishment"?

Why wouldn't you expect RFK Jr. to be there? Shrade  was shot in the head when his own Father was assassinated!

He's obviously a family friend. I'm more interested how you got there than RFK Jr. Ok, and what's unusual about that?

 

Jim; Today, about 48 hours after he declared in Boston, he was in LA.

As you know Jim, RFK Jr. lives in LA.  Shrade died 5 months ago.  You don't think these dates to declare for the Presidency and attend Shrade's wake wasn't pre planned?

Kirk - you never miss a chance to go after Jim D. I find it annoying and pathetic.

[Kirk Gallaway]

I haven't in years Paul. First off, some of us don't take lightly invasions of foreign countries. I'm sorry if you don't appreciate that. There's an issue here.

So  there's a wake for a close member of the Kennedy family at the RFK Community Center, who took a bullet in the head on the night of RFK's assassination and Jim was surprised that RFK Jr. was there?

Jim  credits RFK Jr, for going back to his home in L.A. and not campaigning when RFK Jr. knew Shrade died 5 months earlier and probably has known the date of the wake for months.

We don't need to endlessly legendize the Kennedys.  Didn't someone remark here recently that if we knew the unblemished truth, at least some of us might appreciate the Kennedys more?

 

 

[Matt Allison]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

You cannot be serious Matt.  Are you?

He wants to get out of Ukraine

I'm afraid I don't understand this statement; the U.S. isn't in Ukraine. Do you mean he wants to not support Ukraine?

And just let Russia invade sovereign countries? That would put him squarely in the MAGA/Kremlin camp.

[John Cotter]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:53 PM, W. Niederhut said:

John,

     You really need to educate yourself about American history and politics, instead of endlessly re-posting your erroneous tropes about the alleged "anti-democratic," pro-corporate equivalence of America's two political parties.

      Here are a few questions to facilitate your remedial education.

1)  Which political party has been systematically trying to suppress voting in the U.S. during the past decade?

2)   Which political party has stacked the U.S. Supreme Court with judges who have blocked enforcement of the 1965 Voting Rights Act?

3)   Which party stacked the Supreme Court with judges who abolished a century of campaign finance reforms in the U.S.-- permitting billionaires and corporations to donate unlimited, unsourced "dark money" to political campaigns?

4)   Which party has repeatedly cut taxes for billionaires (and corporations in 2017) during the past 42 years?

5)   Which party has repeatedly blocked or rolled back enforcement of pollution controls on corporate industry?

6)   Which party has repeatedly attempted to roll back fraud and public safety regulations on corporate industry?

William,

I’m sick and tired of your self-styled superiority, your insults, your straw-manning, your misrepresenting my position and your spamming threads with diversionary nonsense.

I’ve already repeatedly acknowledged the differences between the Democrats and the Republicans.

Here you are again trying to set up the same old Punch and Judy show, despite that being the show which on a national level, as RFK Jr pointed out, has impoverished countless millions of ordinary people, as well as destroyed many foreign countries.

So, which is it? Are you going to vote for the continuation of that idiotically corrupt charade or are you going to vote for JFK Jr who, if enough people vote for him, can end it?

[Matt Allison]

46 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

as well as destroyed many foreign countries.

LOL

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

William,

I’m sick and tired of your self-styled superiority, your insults, your straw-manning, your misrepresenting my position and your spamming threads with diversionary nonsense.

 

There's no "straw man," nor misrepresentation of your position here, John.

You have inaccurately described both political parties in the U.S. as equivalently anti-democratic and pro-corporate.

I posted these specific questions about U.S. political history to help you understand your error.

Can you answer my questions?

[Leslie Sharp]

@John Cotter  I don't know how much you know about the Democratic Party in the U.S., or whether you ever registered to vote here, but as a lifelong Dem I think I'm on solid ground in saying that if RFK Jr. even hints at normalizing the Trump years he will not win the Dem nomination. The optics alone standing with Mike Flynn and Roger Stone have already disqualified him in the minds of millions of Democratic voters.  

And if he goes near any attempt to defend or rationalize the GOP record laid out here by W. Niederhut, he will be dismissed out of hand, especially by the progressive wing of his party.

1)  Which political party has been systematically trying to suppress voting in the U.S. during the past decade?

2)   Which political party has stacked the U.S. Supreme Court with judges who have blocked enforcement of the 1965 Voting Rights Act?

3)   Which party stacked the Supreme Court with judges who abolished a century of campaign finance reforms in the U.S.-- permitting billionaires and corporations to donate unlimited, unsourced "dark money" to political campaigns?

4)   Which party has repeatedly cut taxes for billionaires (and corporations in 2017) during the past 42 years?

5)   Which party has repeatedly blocked or rolled back enforcement of pollution controls on corporate industry?

6)   Which party has repeatedly attempted to roll back fraud and public safety regulations on corporate industry?

So, it seems to me he's left with a choice: run on a third party ticket or stand his ground and call it like it is as a forward thinking Democrat. In the immediacy, I think he would be wise to float a moderate VP candidate early on to counter his misperceived stance on vaccines (Michele Lujan-Grisham comes to mind), do his homework regarding the Pentagon leaks, and consistently call it like it is as a Democrat. He can't be an appeaser regardless of how much he loved his grandpa; he can't advance Trump's Charlottesville meme, there are good people on all sides. The Kennedy name will hot hold up under that degree of compromise.

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[John Cotter]

57 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

LOL

Whataboutery.

[John Cotter]

Matt, William, Leslie. Deflection, deflection, deflection.

It's no wonder the USA and the west are going down the toilet.

[Leslie Sharp]

54 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Matt, William, Leslie. Deflection, deflection, deflection.

It's no wonder the USA and the west are going down the toilet.

Do you really want to go there, John?

What is your position on Shannon Airport's complicity in the success of US the Military-Industrial Complex over decades? How might that have contributed to "the west" going down the toilet? Or, are you among those who have spent their lives protesting what is the equivalent of a US air base at Shannon? If you're a native of the North of Ireland, I have additional questions.

And I'm curious, speaking of decades of symbiosis, are you familiar with this history relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy?  Do you think Ireland should finally accept a degree of responsibility for indulging fascists and card carrying N(a)zis like Otto and Ilse Skorzeny? 

The New Irish Economy and the Elusive Francois Genoud

As revealed earlier, the US philanthropic arm of the global petroleum behemoth, Rockefeller Foundation provided the equivalent of $1.5 million in today’s dollars in search of the pure Aryan in Ireland. By 1960, Rockefeller consigliere John Jay McCloy was also representing American industrialist and avowed anti-Semite, Henry Ford in Ireland. The implications become even more relevant to Otto Skorzeny and his cabal’s proposal for Ireland’s economic strategy in the 1960s. “Skorzeny and two representatives of a German and a Swiss bank had protracted talks with members of the Irish Government and they promised to transfer considerable sums of capital to aid its economic development.”

            We also know from author Martin Lee that “rumors of Skorzeny’s presence in Germany or of his influence being felt in N(a)zi circles are intermittently heard,” McCloy wrote in a cable to President Kennedy’s Secretary of State, Dean Acheson.

            “There is a British Intelligence document dated 20 Nov 53, entitled ‘Francois GENOUD’ [Sic] which contains some background on this mysterious Swiss. It notes that he is the literary executor for both Hitler and Bormann and ‘possesses many N(a)zi documents.’ He is described as being in contact with British Fascist Sir Oswald Mosley at the time, as well as with Paul Dickopf (who would eventually become head of West Germany’s equivalent of the FBI, the BKA, despite his impeccable N(a)zi resume; indeed, he was even for a while a head of Interpol like his predecessor [and Skorzeny’s boss], Ernst Kaltenbrunner. Genoud worked for Dickopf in the Abwehr, and his credentials as an Abwehr agent are referenced in the British document, as well as his connection with Naumann Circle and with one Frau Lucht of Dusseldorf, which indicates the H.S. Lucht firm of Dusseldorf managed by Werner Naumann.” 

            Designated by Hitler as his titular heir, Naumann never relented from his commitment to resume the Reich in Germany, to the extent that he was arrested in 1953 and charged with attempting to infiltrate political parties. After his release, Naumann took charge of the H.S. Lucht Co. based in Dusseldorf, a firm that Otto would use as a front for years. The Lucht firm, along with Hjalmar Schacht’s Lombard Odier banking concern based in Dusseldorf, was a cornerstone for advancing schemes coming out of Bonn. No doubt it was through these business opportunities that Ilse Skorzeny had access to Princess Marbert, whom she pursued to purchase property near Martinstown House [County Kildare]. Also, critical during this time frame, were the tightly held negotiations between Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, Otto Skorzeny, and Dr. Wilhelm Voss who was then in Egypt pursuing efforts to collaborate with the Muslim brotherhood. Dealing with the Muslims was a feature for all of these players during the mid-1950s. By the late ’50s, the Republic of Germany and the US both were planning to flood the Irish economy. . . .
 

. . . In the early 1950s, [Sir Oswald] Mosley [British Union of Fascists] and his wife Diana Mitford had purchased Clonfert Palace, Co. Galway, Ireland—rumored to have been prompted by tax issues in the U.K.—where they resided until a fire in December 1954 gutted their home. Early in 1955, the Mosleys purchased the elegant Georgian house, Ileclash, built on an elevation over the Blackwater outside Fermoy, Co. Cork.

            Mosley married his second wife Diana Mitford—one of six Mitford sisters who captured the maelstrom of British and American press in their day—in 1936 in the Berlin home of National Socialist propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels with Adolf Hitler as one of the guests. Mosley, who would become a lifelong friend of N(a)zi Ulrich Rudel [who appears in the 1963 records of Pierre Lafitte], endorsed Hitler's policies following the outbreak of World War II led to his internment after which he was shunned by the British establishment. In a note of irony, Diana’s sister, Deborah married into the Cavendish family and eventually earned the rank of Dowager Duchess of Devonshire. Her brother-in-law, the Marquess of Hartington married Kathleen Kennedy, the older sister of John F. Kennedy. Lismore Castle, the seat of the Duke in Ireland, played host to the young senator Kennedy, a trip he frequently recalled with deep fondness. 

            Mosley and his wife, both unrepentant fascists to their deaths, were entrenched in the Republic of Ireland by the time Otto and Ilse Skorzeny began visiting the country. 

            From his base in Ileclash, in the late ’50s, Sir Oswald was spending increasing amounts of time mixing with aspirant neo-fascists in Europe and with the theorists of apartheid in South Africa. . . . 
 

US Ambassadors to Ireland

Within months of taking office, President Kennedy terminated the mission of America’s ambassador to Ireland under Eisenhower, R. W. Scott McLeod and replaced him with his good friend from Florida, Grant Stockdale. Kennedy had been one of the only senators who voted against McLeod’s nomination as ambassador in 1957. 

            Prior to the appointment by Eisenhower, McLeod, had served as head of the State Department’s Bureau for Security and Consular Affairs. A notorious homophobe and rabid anti-communist whose photo held a space on the desk of Senator Joseph McCarthy had worked closely with the senator’s red-baiting hearings, placing him in immediate proximity to mob lawyer Roy Cohn as well as Robert Morris, two of American’s staunchest anti-communists. We read about Robert Morris and his cohorts in Dallas in our next chapter. Scott McLeod presented his credentials in Dublin on July 17, 1957, just weeks after the Skorzenys were feted at Portmarnock. During his four-year tenure in Ireland, he had ample time to become acquainted with Otto and Ilse and their newfound friends in Ireland. 

            John Kennedy’s good friend Grant Stockdale presented his credentials in Dublin on May 17, 1961, just weeks after McLeod left the post. As ambassador, both McLeod and Stockdale’s duties included hosting formal and informal events for dignitaries and Ireland’s elite. At this juncture, it is worth repeating the history between Stockdale and Otto Skorzeny . . . : “Frequently attending these gatherings in all their splendor were Otto and Else Skorzeny. . . . Without doubt, Stockdale was amply familiar with former National Socialist SS officer Otto Skorzeny, who often visited the embassy for meetings with various American businessmen, military officers, and intelligence officials, as well as various embassy staff members throughout 1960, 1961, and 1962. Former embassy personnel vividly recall Skorzeny coming to the embassy on a near ‘weekly basis.’ Evidence also reveals that the Skorzenys were occasional dinner guests joining the ambassador and his wife. . . .”

            The ruggedly handsome forty-eight-year-old Florida businessman “fell to his death” from the 13^th floor of the DuPont Building in Miami, just ten days after his close friend John Kennedy was brutally taken down in Dallas. As noted previously, no author until now has identified Stockdale’s connections to Otto and Ilse Skorzeny and the possible impact of those connections on his untimely death. 

            With few exceptions, up until the 1990s, all US ambassadors to Ireland had backgrounds in either the military or intelligence (and often both), and/or served on the boards of military contractors. 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

Matt, William, Leslie. Deflection, deflection, deflection.

It's no wonder the USA and the west are going down the toilet.

Huh, John?  Deflection?  As in your refusal to answer some direct questions about the GOP's recent history of sabotaging democracy and promoting corporate plutocracy in the U.S.?

It's no wonder this thread is going down the toilet.

[John Cotter]

Mother of divine Jesus!

[Leslie Sharp]

11 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Mother of divine Jesus!

Interjection as deflection?