RFK Jr discusses his candidacy, and talks about Operation Northwoods

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Mother of divine Jesus!

Baffling isn’t it? 
 

Logic and rationality is often so absent here. 

[John Cotter]

46 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Baffling isn’t it? 
 

Logic and rationality is often so absent here. 

Everything political is viewed through the lens of tribal allegiance to one political party. Groupthink precludes logical engagement.

As Soren Kierkegaard described it:

“The truth. No; by nature man is more afraid of the truth than of death – and this is perfectly natural: for the truth is even more repugnant than death to man's natural being. What wonder, then, that he is so afraid of it? … for man is a social animal – only in the herd is he happy. It is all one to him whether it is the profoundest nonsense or the greatest villainy – he feels completely at ease with it, so long as it is the view of the herd, or the action of the herd, and he is able to join the herd.”

Edited April 23, 2023 by John Cotter

[W. Niederhut]

4 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Everything political is viewed through the lens of tribal allegiance to one political party. Groupthink precludes logical engagement.

As Soren Kierkegaard described it:

“The truth. No; by nature man is more afraid of the truth than of death – and this is perfectly natural: for the truth is even more repugnant than death to man's natural being. What wonder, then, that he is so afraid of it? … for men is a social animal – only in the herd is he happy. It is all one to him whether it is the profoundest nonsense or the greatest villainy – he feels completely at ease with it, so long as it is the view of the herd, or the action of the herd, and he is able to join the herd.”

Get a clue, John.  The herd?  You must be joking.

Far from being part of the herd, I'm usually a voice crying in the wilderness here in the U.S.

As for this thread, I hope that you and Chris Barnard aren't laboring under the delusion that RFK, Jr. is the only politician in the modern U.S. who has been concerned about our corporate plutocracy, and the Koch/GOP war on democracy.

Have you two trans-Atlantic sages ever heard of Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, the popular leaders of the progressive half of our Democratic Party here in the U.S.?

Have either of you read historian Nancy MacLean's book, Democracy in Chains?

Are either of you familiar with the 5-4 Citizens United and Shelby v. Holder GOP SCOTUS rulings here in the U.S.?

https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Chains-History-Radical-Stealth/dp/1101980974/ref=sr_1_1?crid=272RFT4L3P7C7&keywords=democracy+in+chains+maclean+nancy&qid=1682210741&sprefix=Democracy+in+Chains%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1

[Leslie Sharp]

8 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Everything political is viewed through the lens of tribal allegiance to one political party. Groupthink precludes logical engagement.

As Soren Kierkegaard described it:

“The truth. No; by nature man is more afraid of the truth than of death – and this is perfectly natural: for the truth is even more repugnant than death to man's natural being. What wonder, then, that he is so afraid of it? … for men is a social animal – only in the herd is he happy. It is all one to him whether it is the profoundest nonsense or the greatest villainy – he feels completely at ease with it, so long as it is the view of the herd, or the action of the herd, and he is able to join the herd.”

Projection coming from the tribe of Cotter, Barnard, Cole?

What I notice is that the moment anyone ventures into specifics with you, for instance Irish history in context of the assassination of RFK Jr's uncle who apparently you're convinced would release the records forthwith  —  he or she is met with psycho-babble.

For some reason (no doubt Kierkegaard might explain it to me?),  Gen. Leslie Groves — master of compartmentalization and architect of an intelligence revolution that took security measures to unprecedented heights — jumped to mind.

"What you see here, what you do here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here!" 

Groves controlled the project’s pace, priorities, and direction through his decisions. No one could travel from one site to another without the general’s permission. Knowledge was compartmentalized. Workers were told only what they needed to know and were forbidden to discuss their jobs with anyone other than designated supervisors. . . . 

I think that works as an effective analogy to describe your approach to vigorous discussion: either conform to your specification,  your psychoanalysis — your compartmentalization — or suffer the slings and arrows of Kierkegaard? 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Everything political is viewed through the lens of tribal allegiance to one political party. Groupthink precludes logical engagement.

As Soren Kierkegaard described it:

“The truth. No; by nature man is more afraid of the truth than of death – and this is perfectly natural: for the truth is even more repugnant than death to man's natural being. What wonder, then, that he is so afraid of it? … for men is a social animal – only in the herd is he happy. It is all one to him whether it is the profoundest nonsense or the greatest villainy – he feels completely at ease with it, so long as it is the view of the herd, of the action of the herd, and he is able to join the herd.”

Yep 

During the past week I have observed 3 different people, who could be the same animal. Linguistic choices may differ, the predictable reactionary responses are so similar. Each not aware of their flaws. All struggling with cognitive dissonance, all ignoring points, with the instinctive fight mechanism engaging. Two of such creatures directly engaging each other, completely oblivious that their opponent is a mirror image of themselves. 
 

There can be no upside to debating people like this. You will not convert or enlighten them, regardless of the evidence presented. They will only move, when their tribe deems it important to do so. There is something automated, or cult like about this, as if possessed, or programmed to produce a set outcome. Could they even comprehend the sigma, the autonomous free thinker, the independent? Could they imagine how such individuals cope, survive, or flourish without the support of the herd? Do they know what its like to feel free of fear? Do they understand that JFK was not a herd animal? Do they know that RFK wasn’t either? Is this why they hate RFK Jr? He chooses the path that is not well trodden, one which surely leads to persecution, suffering, derision, struggle etc. 

Are they worried RFK Jr will get elected and he’ll put people off the MMR jab or C19 jab, or that people will opt out of a future treatment when Gates has his 2025 SEARS virus? They’re not worried about people getting sterilised and killed off by food and environmental chemicals. They’re not worried about their sons getting sent to war. They’re not even worried about a nuclear exchange with Russia. Or the collapse of their financial systems and country with it. They’re worried as to whether RFK Jr will endorse the C19 jab or future jabs. I guess risk analysis isn’t of any use to these herd animals. 

 

[Leslie Sharp]

6 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Yep 

During the past week I have observed 3 different people, who could be the same animal. Linguistic choices may differ, the predictable reactionary responses are so similar. Each not aware of their flaws. All struggling with cognitive dissonance, all ignoring points, with the instinctive fight mechanism engaging. Two of such creatures directly engaging each other, completely oblivious that their opponent is a mirror image of themselves. 
 

There can be no upside to debating people like this. You will not convert or enlighten them, regardless of the evidence presented. They will only move, when their tribe deems it important to do so. There is something automated, or cult like about this, as if possessed, or programmed to produce a set outcome. Could they even comprehend the sigma, the autonomous free thinker, the independent? Could they imagine how such individuals cope, survive, or flourish without the support of the herd? Do they know what its like to feel free of fear? Do they understand that JFK was not a herd animal? Do they know that RFK wasn’t either? Is this why they hate RFK Jr? He chooses the path that is not well trodden, one which surely leads to persecution, suffering, derision, struggle etc. 

Are they worried RFK Jr will get elected and he’ll put people off the MMR jab or C19 jab, or that people will opt out of a future treatment when Gates has his 2025 SEARS virus? They’re not worried about people getting sterilised and killed off by food and environmental chemicals. They’re not worried about their sons getting sent to war. They’re not even worried about a nuclear exchange with Russia. Or the collapse of their financial systems and country with it. They’re worried as to whether RFK Jr will endorse the C19 jab or future jabs. I guess risk analysis isn’t of any use to these herd animals. 

 

There can be no upside to debating people like this. You will not convert or enlighten them, regardless of the evidence presented. 

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, one might ask why you felt compelled to pen a 300 word response when "there can be no be no upside"?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Leslie Sharp said:

There can be no upside to debating people like this. You will not convert or enlighten them, regardless of the evidence presented. 

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, one might ask why you felt compelled to pen a 300 word response when "there can be no be no upside"?

Seems a nerve has been touched again. 

It was a direct reply to John. The clue is the fact that I quoted John. Keep up. 

[Leslie Sharp]

29 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Seems a nerve has been touched again. 

It was a direct reply to John. The clue is the fact that I quoted John. Keep up. 

So, this is a closed conversation on a public thread?  Why not just message one another privately?

[Denny Zartman]

41 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Denny Zartman

[John Cotter]

40 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

So, this is a closed conversation on a public thread?  Why not just message one another privately?

Another deflection by Leslie - in this case deflecting from her own mistake by blaming her opponents for breaking some rule(s) she just made up.

Is there no end to the gibberish?

[Kirk Gallaway]

5 hours ago, John Cotter said:

1)  Which political party has been systematically trying to suppress voting in the U.S. during the past decade?

2)   Which political party has stacked the U.S. Supreme Court with judges who have blocked enforcement of the 1965 Voting Rights Act?

3)   Which party stacked the Supreme Court with judges who abolished a century of campaign finance reforms in the U.S.-- permitting billionaires and corporations to donate unlimited, unsourced "dark money" to political campaigns?

4)   Which party has repeatedly cut taxes for billionaires (and corporations in 2017) during the past 42 years?

5)   Which party has repeatedly blocked or rolled back enforcement of pollution controls on corporate industry?

6)   Which party has repeatedly attempted to roll back fraud and public safety regulations on corporate industry?

John, I left out the invective part, though it is entertaining to a point to listen to you and W. go at it, I confess.

But the truth is. If you live in the U.S. and are at all knowledgeable about U.S, politics. These points W. makes are undeniable!

This is going to sound America centric. But you can make a point that if there was one political party in the world where the  hope of Western Civilization lies, it's in the  base of the American Democratic Party.  If they can kick out their donor base, and it has been proven with the Bernie Sanders campaign that small campaign contributions can compete with the mega donors of the existing 2 American parties.

And it's not as crazy a notion as some might think. I'm seeing people, mostly in the Democratic but now the 2 major parties starting to identify who and what the problem is.

First it started with a vague notion that "people should pay their fair share of taxes". Even now Biden has adopted this*. Then with Sanders candidacy, sort of establishing a minimum people's rights to have free Health Care, and Education and training. Then Elizabeth Warren started to specifically talk about a tax plan and a wealth tax on the super wealthy. And now RFK Jr. has identified the problem as the corporations. (I think more effectively it could be termed the "corporate state", let the MSM deal with that phrase specifically, force them to say it, and let them know, we're gunning after them as well!) But in fairness, Marianne Williamson has also identified the corporations as the problem, but not quite so specifically, now as RFK Jr.   

It would be great to have Biden debate both RFK Jr. and Marianne Williamson and any other candidate who could drop in who specifically identifies these issues that Sanders, Warren, RFK Jr. and Williamson have now identified ,because the parameters of conversation would greatly increase and exceed any previous Party Presidential debate.

 

*Biden, in public statements has up to now mostly just alluded to sitting down with the corporations like a Father to his son and whispers to them. "Come on guys, pay your fair share of taxes!". He does, however have a plan to revamp the antiquated technology of the IRS and hire many more agents.

In my thinking, he could have been more proactive and done 2 things. 1)Levy a windfall profits tax on the oil companies who a year ago were making all time record profits, and 2. levy a windfall profit taxes on the internet and social media companies that made record profits during the covid lock down. That may have been harder to do, because it was in Trump's final year in office, and an election year.

Even right now, the Biden administration could be talking about how the corporations have used this spike up in interest rates to raise their profits even further, and start putting them on their heels. A good phrase that I think could be used very effectively is "greedflation".

heh heh

 

 ** Incidentally I'm getting e mail notifications now every time someone posts on this thread. I thought I'd report it. This has never happened to me before.

[Karl Kinaski]

Meanwhile on the filth-front: The NYT joins the MSM trying to create a shitstorm for RFK jr.

Quote, Twitter, 5h hours ago:

 

 

 

Robert F. Kennedy Jr

 

@RobertKennedyJr

 

 

For the record, I never compared the government’s Covid mandates to the Holocaust as the

@nytimes falsely reported this week. Listen to my Lincoln Memorial speech and verify for yourself that I mentioned Ann Frank in an entirely different context. I was warning against the alarming totalitarian potential of AI + surveillance technologies.

Close quote

Yeah...  And his uncle JFK never wrote PROFILES IN COURAGE as Drew Pearson (falsely) claimed almost 70 years ago.  The Kennedys are always facing a phalanx of f...king li...ars. As I said several weeks earlier: The most exciting presidential elections are ahead. 

The war of nerves has begun ... have my popcorn ready. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Karl Kinaski

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Meanwhile on the filth-front: The NYT joins the MSM trying to create a shitstorm for RFK jr.

Quote, Twitter, 5h hours ago:

 

 

 

Robert F. Kennedy Jr

 

@RobertKennedyJr

 

 

For the record, I never compared the government’s Covid mandates to the Holocaust as the

@nytimes falsely reported this week. Listen to my Lincoln Memorial speech and verify for yourself that I mentioned Ann Frank in an entirely different context. I was warning against the alarming totalitarian potential of AI + surveillance technologies.

Close quote

Yeah...  And his uncle JFK never wrote PROFILES IN COURAGE as Drew Pearson (falsely) claimed almost 70 years ago.  The Kennedys are always facing a phalanx of f...king li...ars. As I said several weeks earlier: The most exciting presidential elections are ahead. 

The war of nerves has begun ... have my popcorn ready. 

It torpedoes away on RFK Jr. Because of his stance on vaxxes?

Or because he is an outsider?

[Gerry Down]

Would this video clip make you more or less likely to vote RFK Jr. for president?

 

[Paul Brancato]

More. You? It is out of context, and not scripted, not meant literally. We are likely to see all sorts of short clips like this about this candidate, and for the most part only this candidate.